G7 leaders: ‘Iran can never have a nuclear weapon’
(www.politico.eu)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 17 Jun 11:54
https://lemmy.world/post/31523330
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 17 Jun 11:54
https://lemmy.world/post/31523330
Tehran “is the principal source of regional instability and terror,” declare G7 leaders in a joint statement.
The leaders of the G7 countries on Monday issued a joint statement saying Iran should not have nuclear weapons and affirming Israel’s right to defend itself.
“Iran is the principal source of regional instability and terror. We have been consistently clear that Iran can never have a nuclear weapon,” declared the statement, issued by the leaders of the U.S., U.K., France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Japan, along with the EU.
They pledged to “remain vigilant to the implications for international energy markets and stand ready to coordinate, including with like-minded partners, to safeguard market stability.”
#world
threaded - newest
Israel is the principal source of regional instability and terror and everyone and his dog knows this.
The kowtowing to Trump and his Zionist sponsors by the client states of the US Empire is an insult to objective reality.
Please don’t make Iran out to be some sort of victim in all this. What Israel is doing is wrong, but Iran has funded a lot of terrorists throughout the years, and execute people in medival ways for holding hands with the “wrong” person.
The iranian government is pure fucking evil and deserves to die horrible deaths for what they instigate and fund around the world and in their local area.
This is Western imperial propaganda to obfuscate the fundamentally anti colonial nature of Hamas and Hezbollah by labelling them as Islamic terrorists.
The real islamic extremists like Al Qaeda and ISIS were in fact sponsored by the CIA.
I’m so sick of Americans with no clue about the region coming up with Hasbara inserted talking points about Iran. As someone who.lived through the lies on Iraq’s WMDs , which was also cheered by Netanyahu, it is depressing deja vu.
What evidence do you have that presents hezbollah and hamas as being anti-imperialist?
The evidence is that Israel is a settler colony established and supported by the Western colonial powers.
I’m not sure you understood the question
The fact that their whole existence has been fighting against imperialism
They don’t have to have read Lenin mate. They are doing what any resistance force would do when faced with generations of settler colonialism, apartheid, and genocide.
The material actions of a group and how they resist imperialism are what we define them by.
I had a similar response and then saw your comment later after I wrote mine. Just wanted to say I agree and maybe have a shared “annoyance” with the commenter that you have (not really them individually but more what narrative they are repeating from MSM).
I focused more on trying to agree with the aesthetics of liberals like this while also pointing to why what they do is unhelpful. I don’t know if it connects. I try to push them in the right direction.
From your comment Id assume you’re not American. So, I just wanted to give you some hope. There are a small minority of us that have learned from the past. A small minority that understand historical materialism and how to apply it to what we see today.
And, even more so, there are a lot of the population saying “no” out of instinct. Seeing the repeated history of the US and it’s lies and just going with a gut feeling of distrust. I know it’s not not much. But it is something.
Idk where I was going with this response. But I understand your frustration when someone tries to use civil rights suppression to justify literally bombing that didnt threaten us in anyway.
We just get verbatim talking points from 2003; that I heard at 12 years old and was skeptical of even then. My best friends joined the military soon after and I did not. Out of “instinct” and nothing more. So, I’d say that “instinct” during this new generation is even stronger. It’s something. Something I hope is strong enough for a better world in the future. Maybe in the shade of the trees that we plant but never get to enjoy.
It’s a deep sarcasm that Western oil companies destabilized the Iranian monarchy, that * shockingly* wanted a piece of the pie in such a way it paved the way for islamist extremists to gain power.
Ian used to be pretty liberal and western minded, however westen meddling caused this extreme government.
But God forbid they get the means to (to use the Israeli turn off phrase) ‘defend’ itself, that would be horrendous.
Yes, yes, we all know Iran used to be liberal a very long time ago.
That ship has sailed, and the current regime isn’t great, to say the very least.
Nuclear bombs would not be used to defend Iran. They would be used to defend Khamenei. In the same way that nukes are for defending that shit stain in Israel and not Israel.
Ik no fan of the current regime, I think both Israel and Iran would benefit from a regime change. There’s nothing more moral on the Israeli side to explain them deserving nukes over anyone in that region.
But the hypocrisy is that the Western world directly caused this shit.
Iran is still more liberal than any western country that supports Israel.
Just because I want to see you dig your own hole deeper: unpack that one for me, champ. How so?
Resistance groups that commit some terrorism and no terrorist groups
The Iranian government is strictly less evil than every government that has supported Israels genocide, which is basically all of the West, including, for example, Ukraine. Are you going to b say “please don’t make Ukraine out as some victim in all this, they’re pure evil and deserve to die horrible deaths”? Will you say that the EU governments do for what they instigate and fund around the world?
Or are you just a white supremacist?
Ok, which country is actively committing genocide?
So let me get this straight. Because one of the countries in this war is comitting genocide, the other country MUST be a victim of the war? Was the Soviet Union a victim when Germany attacked them?
No. Israel is committing genocide. We all fucking know this, no need to point it out. Iran is a theorcratic rule that tortures people for holding hands with the wrong sex. They regard women as household items. Iran is not a fucking victim. The iranian government needs to fucking suffer violently, preferably by the hands of their own people, but Israel will do.
…Really? That’s the comparison you’re gonna go with?
Yes. Were they?
Is that what I said?
Yes. You asked who is comitting genocide in an attempt to shut me up, because you thought the side that commits genocide must inherently be the bad person in any situation. Seen in the context that I said not to frame Iran as a victim, this attempt to contradict me must mean you think Iran IS the victim here. They aren’t. Now pack up your bullshit attempt to backtrack, and try to argue like an adult.
Oh wow, I didn’t even realize that I said all of that in my short comment 🙄.
I said nothing about Iran being a “victim,” so please take your strawman elsewhere.
Israel is actively committing genocide, Iran is not. It’s that fucking simple.
They’re both bad, but one is clearly worse here.
Okay, well there’s something called context. When you comment on something within a certain context appearing contradicting, it’s reasonable to assume you’re contradicting that certain context. My comment was only and completely about Iran not being a victim, when you comment something that appears to want to be contradicting, it would seem you’re trying to prove that Iran is in fact a victim.
You must understand this is the zeitgeist. The entirety of the Middle East are victims, including mullahs, Taliban, autocrats and sheikhs. Crazy how people can’t at least view it from two sides or in grey tones.
I won’t disagree that the Western-led world order has created instability in the region and worldview, but I sincerely doubt that an Islamic world order would be in any way better. Most are just jealous that they don’t get to do the exploitation
You guys just can’t not strawman… Nobody here fucking said that (in this specific thread at least, can’t speak to others).
Side note: As an American citizen, Iran has done nothing to harm me in any way, and has never been a legitimate threat to my safety for the entire time I’ve been alive. Aside from being told my entire life to hate them, I’ve seen no reason to.
On the other hand, Israel is literally committing a second Holocaust.
My parents are refugees from Iran. They’ve done us plenty. And now I see Westerners talking like Iran is the saviour of the Middle East and that the regime is a poor victim of Western imperialism. Israel is a terror state but so is Iran. No innocent people should ever be bombed, and every civilian is a victim of greedy old men getting young men murdered for resources or pride - but it does piss me off to continuously see people who don’t understand the region whatsoever form strong opinions on it based on Tiktok and Gaza.
You need to stop putting words in people’s mouths… I have seen nobody here with that view.
There’s a thing called “nuance.” Rarely, if ever, is anything on the world stage black and white.
So when I say Israel is worse than Iran, and that Iran has done nothing to me as an American, I’m not saying they’re “the savior of the middle east.” Not even close. Nothing I’ve said implies that in any way.
I’m not even talking about you, am I? This idea is literally everywhere I look by Westerners who can’t find their own assholes. If calling these twisted points of view out is a problem for you then deal with that.
That they haven’t done anything to you is irrelevant. Israel hasn’t either. In fact no one has, since America is the global state supreme.
Dude. I don’t disagree but this is not helpful. What’s helpful is acknowledging that none of that matters to the US. Our greatest allies in the region have all of what you listed and more.
All this sentiment does is manufacture concent for this war. There is one constant factor in the west asia. A constant that continues to keep countries from being able to have civil rights movements, keeps their citizens impoverished, keeps dictatorships and monarchs in power while everyday people suffer.
That constant is US intervention and disruption of the region. Intervention against evil authoritarian rule only when that countries rulers don’t allow US exploitation or threaten it’s imperialist interest.
It serves no purpose what you’re doing. Otherwise I think you should be more concerned about the US arming Saudi Arabia or Israel. Both of those countries have significantly more innocent people slaughtered under their rule.
Iran and it’s people will only know civil liberties and equal rights when they are given the stability to have those movements of their own.
Do you think the best thing for the US civil rights movement would have been a bombing campaign from Canada? No.
Please. Again, I don’t defend Iran if we’re talking about it in a bubble. But the world does not work like that. And comments like yours only manufacture consent for the invasion of a country that attacked no one without first being attacked. That’s it. We don’t need to try to pick apart anything more than that.
If you care about gay people in Iran. You should care about them being bombed. End of story. That should be everyone utmost focus right now. There is no gay person in Iran right now thinking “oh, finally the bombs of freedom reign!”. No, they are thinking “oh fuck, I need to get me and my family and friends out of here”
Sorry, a bit of a rant. So much so that I came back to re-edit the comment later. But, right now, I think it’s really important that we don’t fall for this type of narrative. The fascist controlling America are doing everything they can to manufacture concent with the Liberals.
The intentions of your comment are good and correct. But they are only helpful in a vacuum outside of the war mongering fascism that is rising.
If the only threat to Iran was it’s civil rights violations you’d be right. But the threat to Iran right now is it’s population experiencing what Gaza has for the last 21 months. Something I pray they don’t experience.
I can think of another country, or two, that are guilty of denying women reproductive health care, persecuting non-hetero lifestyles and demanding total allegiance to their leader.
Two things (countries) can be bad at the same time
Sounds like something a tankie would say about Ukraine and Russia
And not only that, Israel has nuclear weapons.
…and it’s supposed to be a secret because God forbid having to comply with international treaties on nukes. Well it’s not like they respect international law anyway right? But the ones on nukes they just bypass and no one bats an eye
Seriously. We’re supposed to regard Iran as an existential threat that is worth any price to neutralize. Okay, boomers.
Iran already has the information needed to make nuclear weapons; the Trump administration’s DOGE leaked that information
Of course they do … you can basically find that information on the internet.
nytimes.com/…/student-designs-2000-atom-bomb.html
While i am sure his comments on it costing $2,000 ($11,300 today) are broadly exaggerating, the key point remains. The information needed is really not the obstacle in the process of acquiring a nuclear bomb.
That is a wild story and fucking terrifying.
Another fun read:
Radioactive Boy Scout
allthatsinteresting.com/david-hahn
I have heard of that one. It is insane what is possible to do with materials available to civilians.
that was known almost decade before that en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nth_Country_Experiment
Why? If the West will allow Israel to live stream a genocide and both political parties in the US stick their fingers in their ears and make sounds like children, Iran has no choice but to pursue a nuke to defend itself.
Literally nobody would care to mess with Iran if they hadn’t been funding radical militias all over the middle east.
One could say the same for my country the US
And they would be right about that.
“Radical militias” you mean groups that opposed Zionist colonialsm. If Israel didn’t exist these militias wouldn’t either.
This is Western imperial propaganda to obfuscate the fundamentally anti colonial nature of Hamas and Hezbollah by labelling them as Islamic terrorists.
The real islamic extremists like Al Qaeda and ISIS were in fact sponsored by the CIA.
So if they didn't oppose US interests the US wouldn't hate them? I wonder how that works.
Iran was being fucked with long long before the first militia was funded
I would have worded this differently, but you're right in that it's probably a good idea not to give anyone an extra excuse.
"Oh but we had to" isn't a great excuse, but it is one, and if you take away the threat, it takes it away that argument.
I never had much hope, but come the fuck on. Statements like these unironically make me want to cheer for the fascists.
The principle source of terror is the united snake
Looks like Israel-US are the principal source for instability in the area, to me.
you don’t have to choose a side and you can wish everyone involved a very nice visit to hague
I do wish everyone involved a very nice visit to the Hague, but more than that if Westerners can't stop their leaders from stanning for genocide, then it becomes very tempting to choose the fascists who will sabotage the Zionist project by running their countries to the ground. I'm a firm believer that people who support genocide don't deserve anything but fascism.
Why not? The claims made by G7 members as to why are admissions - heck, one of the members has used nuclear weapons on civilians, and they’re still allowed to have them.
If anyone can, everyone can.
7 pigs
I believe ALL of the following;
My heart breaks for the Palestinian people who suffer and die for others’ greed, ambition, and political squabbles.
My exact thoughts
Exactly. This is not a competition, we don’t have to cheer for either side. Horrible things are happening
Damn, that’s the most reasonable take I’ve heard all year. Kudos
This is the nature of modern day proxy conflicts. Both actors can continue easily but the “battlefield” like Gaza and South Lebanon are the ones that lose.
Iran is answering for their fuckery
I agree with all of your past tense takes. The future remains to be determined. We might all be flattened at this rate.
I’d add:
And all that basically describes the opinion of 90% of the population just that vocal minorities are very vocal.
90 percent of the western population. The rest of the world is more sympathetic to the militant struggle against imperial genocide.
Well that’s a nice enough list in a vacuum, but what does that actually mean she the real world? Israel already has nukes, Iran won’t survive without them, Palestinians are going to fight back against the fascists trying to exterminate them - with or without Irans prompting - and sympathetic countries like Iran are going to try and aid that struggle.
Iran will have nukes. They don’t have a choice. Not anymore. It’s existentialism at this point. Israel has been trying to engineer a war against Iran for more than 30 years. All the while Iran has played along. IAEA inspectors and all that good shit. And it was all for nothing. Iran knows that now. So does everyone else.
If you’re an adversary to the US and its Imperial interests then its a matter of when, not if. Doesn’t matter if or how closely you follow their rules. They will come for you in time.
They’re out of time. US B52s and B2s will obliterate what’s left of their nuclear facilities. F35s and drones will do the rest. For all the Zionist propaganda, there’s absolutely no evidence Iran wanted to weaponise Uranium and every evidence that they wanted to cooperate with the West in return for sanctions relief, as they did in 2015 with the JCPOA.
The question is can Iran make it painful enough for the US by causing chaos in the straits of Hormuz and damaging oil and gas infrastructure that Trump loses interest and declares victory before he imposes regime change, which is what Netanyahu really wants.
TACO TACO :)
Lol
nobody should have nuclear weapons.
Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if the scientists working on the Manhattan project had all agreed it’s too much and intentionally sabotage every test.
The Germans would have beat us to the bomb and used it and we would all be Nazis.
What if the bomb just wasn’t possible? WWII would have lasted a lot longer, but the allies were going to win eventually at that point. There would not have been a Cold War (at least not one influenced by an arms race)
either that, or nukes would be used first in korean war instead. imo it’s a good thing that nukes were first used against the most cartoonishly evil fascist state imaginable at that point
The Japanese?
Yeah, who else. Nuking Dresden at that point would be useless
Just asking. The Nazis we’re pretty cartoonish.
The Japanese at the time were, at the least, very close in terms of evilness. What with the crazy human experiments, execution of prisoners, and everything they did to the Chinese.
This obviously does not reflect on modern day Japan.
They kind of both maxed out the scale
Germany was miles off, they lost the war before the first bomb was dropped, 7th May vs. 6th August. Its impossible for them to be both behind the Allied effort to make a nuclear bomb (so would have not been read to drop one until after 6th August) and still make one after they surrendered.
The Allies very much lied to the scientists about how far along the Germans were to guilt them into making one against objections raised at the time.
Now if those defecting Nazis who joined NASA and the like post war would have instead been used to replace objecting Allied scientists in the nuclear program, thats a real possibility.
There’s no real way of knowing what would have happened, but knowledge is eventually gained. Somebody would have developed nukes even if it tool a lot longer and we’d end up being in a similar situation eventually.
Knowledge is eventually gained, someone would have built practical devices relating to nuclear fission, whether that was a bomb or a reactor.
Nazi Germany would not have done that in any time frame relevant to WWII. They specifically rejected aspects of atomic/quantum theory because they were tainted by “jewish science” which unknowingly set them back decades and sent them in the wrong direction. As much as they were obsessed with super weapons, they were very unscientific in their R&D.
This shit sounds so familiar…
Well, the Germans wouldn't have because they got defeated long before the Manhattan Project produced a usable weapon. Their own attempt at it failed. Some suspect that Heisenberg actually did sabotage the German project, though it's also possible that he was just bad at it.
But the Soviet Union would have done it later on. Or any of a variety of other countries that probably shouldn't be the first or only countries to have nuclear weapons. Science is not unique to the discoverer, other people can independently discover the same things.
Makes you wonder if their scientists did it.
“Ah guys it would have been such a powerful weapon to demonstrate Arian supremacy! It really sucks that it’s impossible :(”
Maybe, but it also might be that that they’d already made sworn enemies of basically the entire scientific community, so they didn’t have much talent to draw from
Well, it didn’t exactly help that something like half of the most significant nuclear physicists of the era were, uh… yknow… disinvited from the country.
This illustrates exactly why we, as a species, are fucking doomed. If some on can do something that gives them a competitive edge, then someone will do it. Those who opt out are left behind.
It’s why we can’t stop fossil fuels. Whoever stops using them will be at a competitive disadvantage. It’s why we can’t just leave AI on the shelf.
Yes the smarter we get, the better we get at destroying ourselves. Ridiculous.
The Germans were literally defeated before the bomb was finished! Jesus Christ, how bad is education these days.
Well then we wouldn’t have nuclear power either
The first nuclear reactor was in 1942.
Well sure but if you can make a nuclear reactor you can make a nuclear bomb
It would have been discovered later on, perhaps by another power first.
We would still have all the atrocities that happened after Hiroshima and Nagasaki but people in the West would not suffer the anxiety that they could be possibly get hurt as well.
Ok does someone want to catch me up on this opinion shared by world leaders but quite literally no one else?
Like yes, Iran is a terrible authoritarian state that is very dangerous. But so is Saudi Arabia?!
I’m not defending anyone here, but Iran has made it very clear they want to use one
Literally no? Where did you get that from? There is no country (other than the US, 80 years ago) who have made it clear they want to use one
North Korea enters the chat
I left Korea recently after living there for 3 years. Idk what Fox News and CNN have going on, but no, North Korea is not threatening to nuke anyone. They use nukes as a “don’t invade me”, same as every other country
이 답은 좀 답답해… 난 대한민국에서 살았고 친구들이 군대 갔어 근데 너는 이유 없이 말을 무시해.
Why even bother reading things written by individual people who have experience in the region if you’re going to dismiss what they share?
I’ve had to share this before but since I guess you don’t believe me, here’s my residency card
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/70680938-72f6-4c23-98cf-eb8d07d32666.png">
Cool. Now send a face pic holding up 3 fingers.
You got me. I photoshopped the whole thing, and made a fake Lemmy account where I talked about living in Korea for years to troll people. I’m actually Chinese and used Google Translate in my above message.
(Is this the “whataboutism” response you were looking for?)
Well, that’s not whataboutism.
All you did was send a photo that could be anyone.
See, watch:
Here is me.
<img alt="" src="https://discuss.online/pictrs/image/0eb4d2a8-f3b0-4956-9cd0-dd3066a5472a.jpeg">
Did you really give up?
What’s your backup plan when you realize I’m not lying?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/image_proxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FngCGSMu.jpeg">
Here’s where I blog about random stuff. You think I started this lie 7 months ago too? lemmy.ml/post/22516232
So you gave up?
Yea, I have better things to do than prove my 3 year Korean residence to you
You’re just proving those photos are you, which you have not done. It’s funny how an ML can be so demanding when it suites them, but ask them to back up anything and they run away.
Shutup vaush.
I don’t even know what that means, parlor pink.
Too advanced for Eglin chairforce base tactical cheeto eaters.
Ok vaush. Hope the new ozempic shipment reaches the base within schedule because cholesterol and desk jobs is more lethal than conventional combat.
Does the chairforce have advanced technologies to prevent oiling up keyboards with cheeto dust? I hear it causes PTSD in servicemen.
Look who had the language issues all along. They really hire the absolute bottom of the barrel don’t they?
More language issues, keyboard combat related stroke imminent. No great mind will be lost though.
I’m glad to see you’re having fun. I am unaffected. Have a good night.
Shift over?
They have done the exact opposite
Here’s the short version (yes, this is incomplete because even writing this is a small essay. If somebody feels like adding context please do so), to answer your question on the background to their statement & position. The position is fairly common outside Lemmy at least.
History, history, history… (very long story)
2022: Israel was working on normalizing relations with the Arab countries. Things are relatively peaceful in the ME, albeit pretty shit for Arabs in Gaza & WB, not a warzone though. This succeeding would have been a threat to the Iranian network of terrorist organizations (Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, groups in Syria such as the IRGC).
Iran pushes forth October 7 to reignite tensions, training Hamas operatives & such.
Hamas attacks Israel on Oct. 7 kicking off the war - other Iranian proxy groups soon join in. Initially there is no direct conflict between Israel & Iran.
2024 april - IDF strikes the Iranian consulate in Syria to take senior officers in the Hezbollah chain of command and assassinates several others. Iran retaliates with missiles against with strikes against Israel proper.
After that, tit for tat strikes in increasing magnitude and escalations which have culminated in the current situation. No, it was not surprising, this conflict was always fundamentally between Israel & Iran and has been slowly escalating for a long time.
I love unfounded conspiracy theories
Now that isn’t a reply I expected considering how well established this particular narrative is in the mainstream.
But here you go, a well sourced academic article on the topic:
ctc.westpoint.edu/the-path-to-october-7-how-iran-…
My dude…
Duh. OP asked about the position world leaders hold on the topic, not The Entire History of Everything™. Hence, the latter was cut for brevity.
Well you see the existence of Iran forces Israel to bomb them, thus destabilizing the region. If Iran would simply stop existing, Israel wouldn’t have to bomb them, and the region would be stable
Iran is literally funding all terrorist organizations in the region and even beyond that directly support Ruzies 🙄
Whatever reason you give its not exclusive to iran, furthermore trying to defend actions of israel against iranian people is just golden
Resistance groups
Lmao
Jesus fucking Christ. Fuck all of these assholes.
“We will vaporize every living thing on the face of the earth in order to ensure that the threat of Iran possibly maybe but probably not having a nuclear weapon will be neutralized!”
China, India, and Pakistan once again proving that having nukes does actually matter because you can’t be arbitrarily shoved around around by the only other nuclear powers.
it also helps if your air defense network doesn’t collapse immediately because it turns out that in order to guard these nukes you need also regular capable conventional military
“Iran is two weeks away from nuclear capability” - Netanyahu: 2012, 2015, 2018, 2023, 2025
He started a lot earlier than 2012
But genocide against Palestinians is a-OK.
What does the “G” in G7 stand for? Gaslighting? Genocide? Grift? Maybe there are 7 Gs.
Ukraine had nukes and gave them up. They were invaded.
Iraq gave up their WMD program after the first Gulf War. They were invaded again.
Iran definitely had a nuclear program, but doesn’t appear to be pursuing it anymore. They’re getting attacked and quite possibly will get invaded.
South Africa had a nuclear program and gave it up. Left alone.
The Great Powers, particularly the United States but also Russia, have shown that your country should just keep going once you start. Chances are, you’ll get invaded, anyway.
This is not the way towards anti-proliferation.
How do nukes help South Africa? They don’t have rockets. What do they threaten to bomb that is a deterrent?
Nukes can be dropped from planes too.
Tactical nukes can stop just about any invasion.
Hell, even if you don’t. Gaddafi made a big show of “giving up” weapons that he didn’t even really have, and he still got raped to death with a bayonet.
Sweden stopped its nuclear program.
But joined NATO which (in theory) is like having nukes.
Decided bunch of criminals who brainwashed everyone with existence of the nukes. Legalize recreational nukes. Lol
“We will do anything to maintain the status quo, up to and including genocidal ethnosupremacy”!
I am honestly so revolted.
What status quo? They are complicit
The status quo is Western dominance and power projection.
Not exactly. West didn’t care too much about other non-western countries having nukes. Two nations who have nukes borderline almost started a war in Asia (Pakistan and India). Iran is a special case, just like North Korea is. Unlike others, the two I mentioned have essentially declared themselves as the enemies of the west, so naturally west wants to keep them away from such destructive weapons
EDIT: Third one would be Russia, but there was already conflicts and a long standoff. The Russia has made it clear they can invade everyone but no one can invade them. Coincidentally, same could be said for USA.
Just my two cents, from some philosophing east european slav here.
You reversed it. The west made itself the enemy of iran
Elaborate…
For others who don’t want the alternative history: …m.wikipedia.org/…/Iran–United_States_relations
We are going to ignore that the 1953 coup never happened?
npr.org/…/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-i…
The coup explains the current form of government, not why the government hates west, a west that is broader than just US
The west didn’t abandon the idea of controlling Iran again for it’s oils and for Israel to have free reign in controlling all Palestine and keep expending it’s illegal settlements. I am all for a regime change but without foreign intervention for geopolitics reasons .
Again, you’re doing something called US defaultism. The west is not in agreement about Palestine for example. Western Europe is quite obviously against everything that’s currently happening. Neither did other parts of the west planned to control Iran’s oil. I’ll have to remind you that the initial topic/argument was why Iran/West are on bad terms, not Iran and US.
For me, a European, my hate towards them comes from their continious support towards Russia who’s invading checks notes Europe.
Again, the UK (MI6 on behalf of British Petroleum) were one of the key players in carrying out the coup against Mosaddegh and despite the whole Brexit thing the UK is still very much part of Europe.
Also this^ is obviously nonsensical when we’re commenting under a post about how the major European powers are 100% backing Israel and condemning Iran in an escalation that was started by Israel - which part of this looks to you like Europe is against what’s happening?
As for the alliance between Iran and Russia - yeah it sucks - I’d much rather them be aligned with us but I can’t blame them when they’ve been historically exploited by the west so they turn to the enemy of my enemy as their friend.
Maybe if western proxy states (Israel) were to stop bombing them under the pretext of Iran being months away from nuclear weapons for the past 30 years it would be possible to have more civil relations and be less aligned with Russia.
Now you may think it’s too late for that - which I understand - but then you must also recognize that at that point you’re calling for the military annihilation of either side - which is an easy position to hold when you’re on the side with all the nukes…
You misunderstood. I said Europe does not agree with what is happening in Palestine, not Iran. Different scenarios. There is no genocide in Iran. Everyone’s in agreement about the fact that Iran should not have nukes. Not everyone is in agreement whether there should be war about it. Currently it’s hardly a war.
Blowing up nuclear sites and some scientists in no way equals to annihilation of a state my dude. Stop overreaching.
Fair, the whole point of attacking Iran was because of Europe having a diverging stance on Palestine than Israel so we agree on that - but now that Israel has bombed Iran - all of Europe is rallying behind them and the genocide in Gaza has fallen to the wayside.
Obviously I’m not saying that killing civilians (both scientists and casualties caught in the cross-fire on either side) is equivalent to the annihilation of a state. I’m saying that by manufacturing consent for the “war on terror” the G7 is exposing itself as the unfair political partner it has always been which only fuels more resentment on the side of BRICS, which will only further escalate the conflict until another full out war erupts (like what’s happening in Ukraine)
So I’m arguing that we should discourage unprovoked attacks by allies of the G7 on the grounds that those are unproductive to peacekeeping.
And if you’re claiming that “Everyone’s in agreement about the fact that Iran should not have nukes.” but “Blowing up nuclear sites and some scientists” is “hardly a war” - then you’re either saying BRICS can do the same and should expect no repercussions or you’re saying that they should expect repercussions and therefore attacks and escalations against the G7 are justified as well.
I feel we may not be understanding each other so I’ll present my argument and you present yours?
My point is: The G7’s hypocritical application of international law and use of violence and coercion to maintain dominance is exactly what drives countries to join BRICS as an alternative, making Western actions counterproductive to their own stated goals of democracy, peace and stability - which results in further conflict and loss of life across the globe.
At no point did Palestine play into Iran nuclear talks. I still don’t quite understand why you keep bringing them into this conflict. It’s a seperate conflict that has been in the making for a long time now, and I’m almost 99% sure US is strongly behind it (which would explain the spike in weapon deliveries pre-strike) borderline using Israel as a puppet state.
Because not doing anything and chilling out when others are making major moves is sure a failproof strategy. Worked well for France in WW2. Not really advocating for these attacks, but you gotta understand that they do have a point. If west does nothing, they will get cornered. No one wants to be cornered. I’d rather be cornered by US than IRGC, you know, but obviously this is going to be a controversial and mixed opinion for obvious reasons, depending on who’s reading this.
Well, no one is stopping you from becoming the next Houthis shooting rockets at our valuables. The god isn’t watching. But “expect no repercussions”? Why do you think no one is attacking the big countries? There are always repercussions, this isn’t unique to G7 countries. Who tf is going to bully China? Not saying the world order is excellent, but it is what it is, and currently Iran doesn’t have the best cards and no one on the other side wants them to have nukes.
My point is, and I truly believe, if highly religious countries with record amount of human right violations and authoritarism would be the world’s hedgemony instead of United States who could get wiped out while idling, there is a very, very high chance my, and likely your life might be so much worse. US for all it’s shitty things, is still, in my opinion, a far safer choice for world than the cool trio Russia, North Korea and Iran, so naturally western countries are interested in avoiding such a large future threats
As I said: “that’s an easy position to hold when you’re on the side with all the nukes…”
I’m just trying to warn you that defending such a system only leads to more contradictions, which require more violence to subdue, which in turn creates even more contradictions, which repeats until it collapses under it’s own weight.
Beats the alternative?
EDIT: Gotta say, seeing sudden jump in downvotes on all my profile makes me feel good. I’m getting to your nerves, extremists. You know I’m right, and your brigading confirms that for me. The fact that you suddenly spend so much time trying to affect some imaginary points is just… 1-0.
The whole point of attacking iran from israeli side is to have free reign on oppresing palestinians. For american prespective is all about oil. Europe support is because iran is allied with russia
Europe has the obligation to stop any type of rrlation with a genocidal state comitting a genocide in gaza. Europe pretend to disagree with what ia happening in palestine
You’re a fucking liar lmao. Western Europe is sending weapons to Israel you fucking idiot
I’m just telling the truth
Well, that’s been the litemotiv of the last century on the area, support a slightly less evil genocidal asshole against another genocidal asshole.
I’m curious to see what Iran would have become in the next 5 years had this shit not occurred. It had the potential of becoming another regime or possibly a democracy again. Hard to say where it was going.
Religious zealots can’t be allowed to have nukes. You have to at least masquerade as a well-adjusted nation while you develop the nukes and slowly massage your zealots into positions of power over a few decades. Those are the rules.
The country founded on the idea that “God promised us this land” already has nukes.
God can’t seem to get much done without the US Military 😬
And yet Israel not only has nukes, but refuses to say how many, or allow IAEA inspectors in to have a look.
So you agree that Israel shouldn’t have nukes.
Probably best for all of us if nobody can ever have nuclear weapons, but what do i know…
I’m just surprised squeaky tank birthday pissboy didn’t elbow his way to the center of this photo like he used to do during his first term. He must be tired from being old as fuck.
How else can the most advanced first-world nations keep exploiting the Middleeast?
With Netynyahu, we can change the government of any nation in the middleast. We just tell him to make a presentation that they’re bad and have big weapons!
Guys please understand we, the US, UK, Germany, and rest of G7 first-world nations, reaally need to assassinate forign leaders and destory and kill the people of any nation that opposes the existance of a genocidal ethnostate aparthied … because, the few Zionists who pay our salaries will not have a country where they can kill, evict, colonize, assassinate anyone who is not from their chosen race. Then we will have to give these brown people democracy, and their own governments?!!
If we did not make the middleast into dictatorships that work with our genocidal ethostate only, then they will not sell us cheap oil and will not have to couple all their trades, currencies and inflations against US dollar. Omg. imagine if they were then allowed to manufacture their own weapons and not buy trillions worth of military equipments and defense contracts from us? omg… our 9999 military bases there? who will pay for them?
I guess we all just have to pretend Israel doesn’t exist?
Tbf they both are…
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/28e12e3d-5c16-4d5a-94b1-110f11c7d8ae.gif">
People with nuclear weapons have forbidden you from having nuclear weapons?
Humans are a goofy lot.
Iran: “We’re good then, we don’t just have one.”
Whatever.
Don’t care if yanks go get blown up in the Middle East. It’s all in service of enriching Halliburton and the military industrial complex. Yawn. It is 2003 again?
Whatever happened to: “tRuMp iS tHe PeAcE pReSIdEnT”.
I thought the US was trillions in debt. There’s always money for war.
Can’t wait to laugh at this smoothbrained crew of assclowns as they try to fight a foreign war. Good luck maintaining those supply chains for US war mongering when the whole world fucking hates you.
FFS. Anyway. Next.
The last time they did this, a million Iraqis died.
I know. Fuck the US. They can’t even come up with different propaganda.
found a few familiar resources in iran that the western world and its allies would love to gain full control of.
Oil Due to the vast quantities of crude oil reserves within Iran, the nation is considered an energy superpower. According to official records from the Iranian government, in 2006, the crude oil reserves in the nation were estimated to be 132.5 billion barrels. At the time, Iran’s reserves were estimated to be 15% of the total reserves of all the members of the organization of petroleum exporting countries. In comparison to the rest of the world, Iran’s 2006 oil reserves were approximately 11.4% of the global reserves. After the discovery of oil reserves around the town of Bushehr, the oil reserves in Iran increased by roughly 32%. According to the International Monetary Fund, the monetary value of Iran’s oil reserves was estimated to be $10 trillion. The Iranian government entered into several agreements with oil companies from a variety of nations such as the United Kingdom, Russia, the Netherlands, and Spain to develop the oil reserves. Several oil refineries are situated within Iran’s boundaries with the most prominent being Abadan, Esfahan, and Bandar-e Abbas. The main method of transporting Iranian petroleum is through the pipeline. According to a study carried out in 2004, pipelines in Iran transported roughly 69% of the refined petroleum products.
Natural Gas Iran also has massive reserves of natural gas that according to official government records are estimated to be 1,201 trillion cubic feet. Iran’s reserves are some of the largest in the world as they account for close to 18% of the world’s total. The only nation with larger gas reserves than Iran is Russia. In 2011, the Iranian petroleum minister released a report indicating that Iran’s reserves of natural gas had increased significantly due to the discovery of gas reserves within the Caspian Sea. The Caspian reserves were estimated to be 50 trillion cubic feet. Iran is currently exploiting a limited amount of its natural gas reserves, and on average it exploits 5.5 trillion cubic feet annually. The Iranian government has planned to invest huge sums of money in improving the gas industry. The government has planned to set aside $15 billion every year to increase the annual natural gas production. The Iranian government is planning to take advantage of the increase in the demand for natural gas all over the world. Estimates indicate that over 20 years the global demand for natural gas would increase by either 2% or 3%. Some of the main markets for Iranian natural gas include China and india
NO ONE should have them. Dumb asses.
Yeah but until countries like the US, Russia, China and the rest give them up, they are the only true guarantee of sovereignty.
Nukes for me but not for thee
Israel is the criminal and everyone knows it.
Israel will face the long-term consequences of its reckless behavior. Just not today.
A disturbingly large group think that history started on October 7 2023 and prior to that it was all sunshine and rainbows in the region.
Those people didn’t hear about 70ish years of Israeli bullshit on the nightly news so as far as they’re concerned it didn’t happen.
Even the statement is not about protecting people lives but about market stability.
They are not working for the people…
Ukraine gave up their nukes, look what happened to them. Libya gave their nuclear weapons program up, and look at them today. North Korea didn’t, and they’re still standing, for better or for worse. Iraq was accused of having nukes, but didn’t have them, and got destroyed. Seems that if you want any semblance of sovereignty outside of NATO, you better have some nukes.
So for any nations reading along I’ll summarize the basic conclusions:
Do you think Israel would be bombing Iran if they had nukes?
Are you claiming that the world would be a safer place with every other unstable or authoritarian country having nukes?
MAD safer no, but essentially disabling conventional warfare as a practical idea yes.
India and Pakistan are armed to the teeth, yet they haven’t fought a real war ever since they both got nukes.
What makes you assume said countries would not act exactly like Russia towards others without nukes?
You’re kinda making the point for them
But then we’re back to “would world be safer with every crazy person having nukes?”
Some are ready to watch the world burn
Who decides which country is “crazy”?!
Religion mostly
The nations that decide that bombing anyone in the Middle East is lawful when they are doing it.
Also the nations that decide that Kosovo has to be independent, but this is not a precedent for anyone else.
Arabs and Turks ethnically cleansing Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians is fine. But a few Slavic peoples murdering each other because of religion warrant an exceptional intervention. But Mustafa Kemal is a good guy.
Russians are to blame for their government’s actions and have to be banned from payment systems and visiting EU countries. But Russians who work in the government and their family members can live in EU countries half the time and more. That’s justified by “killing Russia’s economy for the war”, except Russia’s war is not funded by taxes from citizens paying and accepting payments for shit with MC and Visa. Russia’s war is funded by oil and gas trade. Or by “punishing Russians and making them change the regime”, which is very funny, because the people actually part of the regime are not “punished” this way, they are also the exact group that should be “punished” for good effect, and we the rest kinda see that and don’t have huge sympathies to the narratives of people doing such stuff.
Also about Russia - those nations would decide that Putin’s and Yeltsin’s regimes are nice and legitimate and democratic when they were limited to destroying Russia itself. Again, now every Russian is retroactively to blame for those years as well, except those they were dealing with.
And it’s the same everywhere, if there’s an authoritarian regime - then just like with businesses, it’s sort of a profitable endeavor. And the process making it profitable happens in the western countries. It’s one system in which their elites have that cozy spot of hypocritically accusing everyone other than themselves of the processes they create. A continuation of the colonial system, too continuous and similar to even use the “neo” prefix.
That they are mostly democracies is not real republicanism, at least not in the last 20 years. It’s a sign of luxury - look, we can afford such magnificent Colosseum shows that our populace is well controlled even under pretense of democracy. The countries higher in that hierarchy play democracy more, the countries lower in it - less.
Say, Iran’s regime is unfortunate, but calling it less democratic than UK would be preposterous. It has more crime and corruption, true. But maybe the fact that Iran’s appearance of democracy is above what it’s “allowed” is not a smaller reason for the violence against it, than any fears of it attaining a nuke.
… I’d rather listen to what DPRK, IRI, PRC, even Turkey’s leadership have to say on what’s civilized and what’s not. Everyone is better than NATO&EU. Russia’s … eh, I’ve met some people too close to that, they stink too much, quite westernized one can say.
If Palestinians had the bombs there would be no genocide lmao
Lmao Hamas would have launched them at Israel and we would be seeing world war 3 with nukes. The fact that you think Hamas would be more responsible with WMDs than US, which hasn’t used them since Japan, is bizzare
Shut the fuck up you piece of shit.
If hamas had nuclear bombs the Israelis would have threated them better. But according to the genocide apologists history started in October 23 didn’t it?
Wat
threated*
Anyway stfu you’re an idiot if you think only the current genociders in charge deserve to get nukes.
Give then to everybody or destroy them. You don’t get to keep it
Hamas would have no reason to use bombs if Palestinians weren’t getting colonized and killed for the last 80 years you goddamn idiot.
Israel have nukes and never signed the non proliferation threaty. Either the west give them the Iran threatment or they have zero legitimacy in telling who gets bombs and who’s not.
The US invaded way more countries and spread much more misery than hamas since ww2 you scum.
And if roles were reversed, how many countries do you think they’d have invaded? Basically US with sharia law.
Aaaah sure. I bet you’re German or something are you not?
The genocidal trolls cannot deny the attrocities anymore (everybody knows) so they can only push the idea that the genocidees would be genociders if they had the chance. It was only a pre-emptive genocide if you will, wasn’t it?
“It was self defense”
Hamas is only in power because the Fatah agreed to give up armed struggle in exchange for self determination. They didn’t get self determination. They had colonies, settler attacks, area C and a wall around gaza.
Your comment does not argue against my point, but suddenly starts talking about something unrelated. Fine, to entertain your randomity, imagine Fatah has nukes. Would you believe they’d excercise no-first-strike policy, or would live by their promise to destroy Israel?
Act like the USA?
US is expanding? When was the last time US annexed a territory? Did you honestly just try to make US as a better example than Russia in this context?
i.imgur.com/AJinNsQ.png
There’s Afghanistan, Iraq, and these days there’s talk about a 51st state, rumblings about Greenland, Palestine
American aggression and coups in various countries… there’s so many examples going back to Vietnam and maybe before.
Basically after the British cocked up so many countries in the world, it passed the baton to America.
Iran is one example of a country whose problems are directly caused by American interventionism.
You wrote all that and failed to give me one example of annexation by US. Israel is annexing Palestine. Russia is annexing Ukraine. US didn’t annex Afghanistan or other countries. The states/countries live on, sometimes better than before. There is a huge difference.
I honestly believe trump is BS’ing about annexing Canada.
Oh no, I didn’t. I gave you examples of the USA doing much worse things. I also replied to your comment about Russias behavior to other countries, of which only 1 they had attacked. How many did America attack?
In any case the USA would have stayed much longer if in their occupation of the Middle East if public pressure, suicide rate of their forces etc.
Tf? How is, for example, doing a genocide in gaza (part of annexation) better than wiping out terrorist groups in Iraq?
You don’t have to annex countries nowadays to make them your colonies. You just let your companies take all the business there, exploiting the resources etc, you install a few military bases to serve your geopolitcal interests, aka war games, and just for show you let them elect your lackeys as local representatives of the empire. The american empire is the largest one in the world currently, even without techincally owning all that land. There is no need to, it’s the 21st century. Power is not measured only by land.
The world would be a safer place if not only every country had nukes, but also every adult citizen had a farm of combat drones.
I personally don’t want to hear of NATO&allies lecturing everyone else morals. Tired of that. And I understand why in ex-USSR the perception of them like some global good guys was common - the reaction to very invasive and obnoxious and irritating Soviet propaganda.
I don’t understand how people in the west can believe that.
Anyway, no intelligent person from the west I’ve talked to did, so … kinda as it should be.
Imagine giving every potential madman (including school shooters and what not) destructive weapons thinking you’re making world a better place. Unhinged take honestly.
School shooters usually use it as their last resort. Bullying of autistic kids is the main problem. Them finding such an exit is a secondary one.
No, school shooters aren’t using it as a last resort. They are physcopaths who feel slighted and can’t process emotions.
This is wrong. Psychopaths feel themselves just fine in the society and usually don’t become school shooters.
Shooting up bullies is a very crude solution, one that a psychopath usually doesn’t need.
In any case most of school shootings I’ve read about were connected to bullying, and bully lives don’t matter. Don’t bully, don’t get killed.
A psychopath usually plans their murders, so they’ll do just fine with a heavy sharp object or a reactive not intended for food getting into food. A psychopath will also be on the convenient side of any socially approved action.
I’ve recently fully realized that I’ve met a high quality psychopath once.
Well it’s definitely not autistics or a last resort like you claim…
In many cases it’s both.
Easy to say when your country have them.
If Iraq really had nukes they wouldn’t have been invaded that easily lmao
We’re saying it would be a safer place if they applied the same standard to themselves.
Why? Give it some thought and actually come up with a logical answer, because countries do not invade US because of nukes, but because they have the most advanced army in the world. Nukes for US changes nothing, they’re there only as an answer to other nukes.
They also use it to protect their genocidal friends in israel
Give me one quote where US has threatened Palestine with nukes if they shoot back or whatever you’re hallucinating right now
He didn’t say the world would be safer. But history kind of shows it is in each countries self interest to have nukes vs not having them.
Isreal has bombed Iran
everyone likes this
Is this ironic?
Nobody should have nukes, you fucking hypocrites…
Except France and the UK of course.
Well Pakistan will give them one if needed so they kind of already have one. Maybe stop pushing them to use it on Israel.
Israel have the nuclear weapon and never signed the non proliferation thready.
Fucking hypocrits