Unless the US is the enemy and just disables the UK’s fighters, stops maintenance and support, etc.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works
on 25 Jun 19:55
collapse
The F35 is a global product, with quite a few countries involved in manufacturing. I do think Europe and the UK could keep them flying without the US.
Hell, Iran kept their F14s going for many decades without US support.
realitista@lemmy.world
on 25 Jun 08:54
nextcollapse
Good to see UK step up in this regard, Europe needs to bolster its own nuclear deterrent independent of the USA as the USA is no longer a trustable partner.
That’s the spirit! Lock in to a multi-billion dollar contract for jets that are still largely delayed for delivery under other contracts because “what other choice do we have?”
At least the F35 makes sense for Europe given its range, but having one option and one option only is a massive problem. Europe/UK should really develop their own, instead of creating a deadline for no reason and compromising to meet that artificial deadline. If an enemy finds a flaw in the F35 and everyone is overcommitted to the F35 then what, we all shit the bed and hope our new overlords are merciful?
I think this will happen eventually, but we have immediate threats which need to be countered with what’s available today, we can’t wait 20 years to do something about them.
I’m not sure if buying American equipment is a good way to rid ourselves of our dependence on America.
It allows America to control our supply of spare parts and software updates, and it doesn’t bolster the European defence industry.
A lot of the F-35 parts are produced in Europe, it’s mostly the software that is a concern. But it’s not like there are any alternatives right now. Developing a new European plane will take decades.
As I said, there are some concerns, but no, there is no out-right “kill switch” or any remote control capability.
Really the biggest risk is the US withholding future software updates for a while, forcing operators to implement their own software packages for those the US will no longer provide updates for.
I’m extremely doubtful of this. Just the chance that a software kill switch exists is way too big of a threat for the US itself. Imagine if Russia or China managed to hack into their systems and get a hold of it, instantly bricking almost the entire US airforce. That would be catastrophic.
Obviously having an EU alternative to the F35 would be ideal, but it will take a long time and a lot of money to develop. For now there isn’t another option.
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
on 25 Jun 11:37
nextcollapse
“According to the October 2024 report from the NNSA, it has also been certified to fly on the B-2, F-16, and German Air Force PA-200 Tornado jets, and is working towards certification on the Italian Air Force’s Tornados and the US Air Force’s B-21 bomber.”
Meaning the German PA-200 the UK just retired in 2019 could have been certified to carry those warheads… But you probably would rather have warheads not made in America either
Well yes proving a negative is usually not possible. In this case maybe it is but it would be such exhaustive work that no one would probably trust the result anyway.
Yep. And the US has every incentive and opportunity to include some such thing. Up until now, allied nations have just assumed scenarios where they’d use it were impossible.
OrteilGenou@lemmy.world
on 25 Jun 11:44
nextcollapse
Yeah bolster your military with a jet fighter that requires updates from a single source controlled by another country. I’m sure there will never be a problem with that arrangement
They just need to supports Trumps nobel peace prize and their journey to the dark side will be complete. Starmer will be allowed to come to the US and pick up the papers at Trumps feet every day from now on.
redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 25 Jun 11:36
nextcollapse
Good to know Lockheed Martin has the same strangle hold on the UK as the US. You guys might want to fix that before Nigel or Boris make themselves king or supreme chancellor.
Considering how well the F35 did against Iran, I expect more F35 purchases from Europe going forward. I’m not aware of any European jets with comparable stealth and radar capabilities.
Sure, but those domestic manufacturers are going to need to work on developing actual stealth airframes if they want any business. That takes time that Europe isn’t currently comfortable with at the moment
Thats true, that right now eu doesn’t have its own stealth fighter, but I dont think a few dozens of f35 is gonna make that much of a difference, I think we need more of cheaper planes that are easily replaceable
I think we need more of cheaper planes that are easily replaceable
Doesn’t Europe have a good number of airframes that fit that need? Rafales, Eurofighters, Gripens come to mind. F18’s too, but I recognize those aren’t domestic.
I look at these F35’s as a the current best solution for SEAD and air dominance roles in a potential conflict. Once that’s taken care of these other less capable platforms could play their part.
Unless Israel has giant pilots to go alongside their space lasers, none have been shot down, to my knowledge. I’ve seen footage of some of their unmanned drones being taken out, so you may be conflating the two?
Oh, and Europe is pretty much solely worried about Russia. They want systems that can suppress Russian air defenses. Iran operates (or at least, they used to) Russian air defense systems such as S-300 and Tor M1 that it appears the F35 has handily dealt with.
No, it was all over .ml that they had, but that was misinformation. It was telling that it was all Iranian-sounding news agencies that were being posted.
There’s no equivalent jet in general. And for good reason - the requirements were insane and the development process was both massively slow and unfathomably expensive.
In the long run, you have to wonder if sensors will move to any number of alternatives to radar reflections, but word is that stealth is still pretty (war)game-breaking ATM.
It’s just that the US has privileged access to all the software…
rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
on 25 Jun 12:39
nextcollapse
Uk shoudln’t be allowed to harry jeta that can carry nukes. Israel should bomb the uk \s
So basically, nuclear-armed planes and new warheads. That’s good. It was almost all on the French before. I wonder if Canada could sign on to collaborate and host UK nukes.
The F-35 thing is questionable, but lots of non-US countries depend on them and manufacture the parts (and they’re great planes). In the long run I wonder if a custom ROM for the things might be in the cards, in defiance of the current agreements.
Proliferation is bad, though. If there’s any chance we can host one of the existing nuclear powers like the UK we should. Failing that, it becomes a much more difficult debate.
threaded - newest
It was a bit odd that they were going to use the B varient even for their land-based fleet.
I think the advantage there is they don’t need a full airfield to operate from, but if the UK has lost all it’s airfields, somebody’s getting nuked.
Unless the US is the enemy and just disables the UK’s fighters, stops maintenance and support, etc.
The F35 is a global product, with quite a few countries involved in manufacturing. I do think Europe and the UK could keep them flying without the US.
Hell, Iran kept their F14s going for many decades without US support.
Good to see UK step up in this regard, Europe needs to bolster its own nuclear deterrent independent of the USA as the USA is no longer a trustable partner.
By buying American aircraft?
As opposed to what alternative? Do you have a European 5th generation stealth fighter bomber in your pocket that you’ve been keeping secret?
That’s the spirit! Lock in to a multi-billion dollar contract for jets that are still largely delayed for delivery under other contracts because “what other choice do we have?”
At least the F35 makes sense for Europe given its range, but having one option and one option only is a massive problem. Europe/UK should really develop their own, instead of creating a deadline for no reason and compromising to meet that artificial deadline. If an enemy finds a flaw in the F35 and everyone is overcommitted to the F35 then what, we all shit the bed and hope our new overlords are merciful?
I think this will happen eventually, but we have immediate threats which need to be countered with what’s available today, we can’t wait 20 years to do something about them.
I’m not sure if buying American equipment is a good way to rid ourselves of our dependence on America.
It allows America to control our supply of spare parts and software updates, and it doesn’t bolster the European defence industry.
A lot of the F-35 parts are produced in Europe, it’s mostly the software that is a concern. But it’s not like there are any alternatives right now. Developing a new European plane will take decades.
I would think the software would be a little more concerning, if there is any truth to this article eutoday.net/germany-concerned-over-f-35-kill-swit…
As I said, there are some concerns, but no, there is no out-right “kill switch” or any remote control capability.
Really the biggest risk is the US withholding future software updates for a while, forcing operators to implement their own software packages for those the US will no longer provide updates for.
I’m extremely doubtful of this. Just the chance that a software kill switch exists is way too big of a threat for the US itself. Imagine if Russia or China managed to hack into their systems and get a hold of it, instantly bricking almost the entire US airforce. That would be catastrophic.
Good point
Obviously having an EU alternative to the F35 would be ideal, but it will take a long time and a lot of money to develop. For now there isn’t another option.
“According to the October 2024 report from the NNSA, it has also been certified to fly on the B-2, F-16, and German Air Force PA-200 Tornado jets, and is working towards certification on the Italian Air Force’s Tornados and the US Air Force’s B-21 bomber.”
Meaning the German PA-200 the UK just retired in 2019 could have been certified to carry those warheads… But you probably would rather have warheads not made in America either
The airframes are at the end of their life, Germany is getting F-35s specifically to replace the ageing Tornados as well.
What does the EU have to do with the UK?
A history of joint airplane development.
Theyre not a facist state
Okay replace EU with Europe
Is russia attacking the uk eminent?
Probably not, although Russia keeps jerking off to fan fiction about nuking a tidal wave across the island.
The USA can remotely deactivate those airplanes though.
That’s never been verified and pretty much every European defense expert has stated that it’s not the case.
Has anyone actually said it’s impossible? We’re talking about 8 million lines of absolutely proprietary code; it’s not.
The US has not advertised any such capability, though.
Well yes proving a negative is usually not possible. In this case maybe it is but it would be such exhaustive work that no one would probably trust the result anyway.
Yep. And the US has every incentive and opportunity to include some such thing. Up until now, allied nations have just assumed scenarios where they’d use it were impossible.
Yeah bolster your military with a jet fighter that requires updates from a single source controlled by another country. I’m sure there will never be a problem with that arrangement
Never mind the American planes… these planes if nuclear-armed will be armed with American-owned bombs that will require American authorisation to arm.
They just need to supports Trumps nobel peace prize and their journey to the dark side will be complete. Starmer will be allowed to come to the US and pick up the papers at Trumps feet every day from now on.
Good to know Lockheed Martin has the same strangle hold on the UK as the US. You guys might want to fix that before Nigel or Boris make themselves king or supreme chancellor.
Considering how well the F35 did against Iran, I expect more F35 purchases from Europe going forward. I’m not aware of any European jets with comparable stealth and radar capabilities.
F35 are too expensive and if you buy american you dont support domestic weapon manufacturers
Sure, but those domestic manufacturers are going to need to work on developing actual stealth airframes if they want any business. That takes time that Europe isn’t currently comfortable with at the moment
Thats true, that right now eu doesn’t have its own stealth fighter, but I dont think a few dozens of f35 is gonna make that much of a difference, I think we need more of cheaper planes that are easily replaceable
Doesn’t Europe have a good number of airframes that fit that need? Rafales, Eurofighters, Gripens come to mind. F18’s too, but I recognize those aren’t domestic.
I look at these F35’s as a the current best solution for SEAD and air dominance roles in a potential conflict. Once that’s taken care of these other less capable platforms could play their part.
They have incredible value, actually. I’m not sure what cheaper system your thinking of, but none come anywhere close to it’s general capabilities.
If you factor in the development process it might not be such a great deal. But, you’re not at this point.
Didn’t Israel lose one? And this further sinks you into a position of reliance on empire America. Like who are you going to fight with these? Iran?
OK I thought just the photos were AI. Looks like they’ve yet to loose one.
Unless Israel has giant pilots to go alongside their space lasers, none have been shot down, to my knowledge. I’ve seen footage of some of their unmanned drones being taken out, so you may be conflating the two?
Oh, and Europe is pretty much solely worried about Russia. They want systems that can suppress Russian air defenses. Iran operates (or at least, they used to) Russian air defense systems such as S-300 and Tor M1 that it appears the F35 has handily dealt with.
No, it was all over .ml that they had, but that was misinformation. It was telling that it was all Iranian-sounding news agencies that were being posted.
There’s no equivalent jet in general. And for good reason - the requirements were insane and the development process was both massively slow and unfathomably expensive.
In the long run, you have to wonder if sensors will move to any number of alternatives to radar reflections, but word is that stealth is still pretty (war)game-breaking ATM.
It’s just that the US has privileged access to all the software…
Uk shoudln’t be allowed to harry jeta that can carry nukes. Israel should bomb the uk \s
Looks like the arms race is ramping up.
So basically, nuclear-armed planes and new warheads. That’s good. It was almost all on the French before. I wonder if Canada could sign on to collaborate and host UK nukes.
The F-35 thing is questionable, but lots of non-US countries depend on them and manufacture the parts (and they’re great planes). In the long run I wonder if a custom ROM for the things might be in the cards, in defiance of the current agreements.
Canada 100% needs nukes. I used to be against it but Trump’s bullying has changed my opinion of that.
Proliferation is bad, though. If there’s any chance we can host one of the existing nuclear powers like the UK we should. Failing that, it becomes a much more difficult debate.
Yeah, I agree