Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would put Nato ‘at war’ with Russia (www.theguardian.com)
from breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 18:59
https://lemmy.ca/post/28833012

Vladimir Putin has said that a western move to let Kyiv use longer-range weapons against targets inside Russia would mean Nato would be “at war” with Moscow.

Putin spoke as US and UK top diplomats discussed easing rules on firing western weapons into Russia, which Kyiv has been pressing for, more than two and a half years into Moscow’s offensive.

“This would in a significant way change the very nature of the conflict,” Putin told a state television reporter.

“It would mean that Nato countries, the US, European countries, are at war with Russia,” he added. “If that’s the case, then taking into account the change of nature of the conflict, we will take the appropriate decisions based on the threats that we will face.”

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MediaBiasFactChecker@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 19:01 next collapse
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/12/putin-ukraine-missile-restrictions-nato-war-russia
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toiletobserver@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 19:20 next collapse

Sounds like a “final warning” to me

FelixCress@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 20:32 next collapse

Like twentieth now.

aeronmelon@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 00:55 collapse

“Two and a half…… two and three quarters……”

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 12 Sep 19:20 next collapse

NATO: staying in Ukraine would put Russia ‘at war’ with NATO.

Considering your army can’t take Ukraine, this really a fight you want to pick?

God, it really is the Russian religion that they’re the only strong ones and everyone else is just so spoiled and weak, as your oligarchs tell you, from their mega yachts.

lemmylommy@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 21:18 collapse

They are both perpetual victims and the strongest kid on the playground at the same time.

migo@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Sep 13:03 next collapse

Which is described in Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco. It’s part of the fascist rethoric.

InverseParallax@lemmy.world on 14 Sep 07:23 collapse

Russian cultural paranoia.

They cannot consider themselves safe unless they have a ‘perimeter’ around Russia.

The thing is: that needed perimeter is always growing, eventually your country becomes part of it, ask Poland and later east Germany, Afghanistan, and eventually, your country.

NOT_RICK@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 19:30 next collapse

Too late, they already used GLMRS in the Kursk region. Guess we’re “at war” now. I’d argue that’s a laughable position for him to take given Russian agents have been sabotaging European infrastructure all over the place since Feb 22. Letting Ukraine defend itself shouldn’t be controversial.

tal@lemmy.today on 12 Sep 19:31 next collapse

“It would mean that Nato countries, the US, European countries, are at war with Russia,” he added. “If that’s the case, then taking into account the change of nature of the conflict, we will take the appropriate decisions based on the threats that we will face.”

Assuming that the implication here isn’t that the appropriate decision would be “Russia’s gonna pull out of Ukraine”, and it’s more “Russia is gonna use nuclear weapons”, I expect that it can be added to this list:

united24media.com/…/a-timeline-of-russias-nuclear…

A Timeline of Russia’s Nuclear Threats Against the West

I believe that that would be entry #96.

tal@lemmy.today on 13 Sep 02:59 collapse

I’d also add that during the very first statement Putin made announcing the invasion, on February 24, 2022, he ended it with what I imagine was intended to be interpreted as a nuclear threat:

en.wikipedia.org/…/On_conducting_a_special_milita…

“On conducting a special military operation” (Russian: О проведении специальной военной операции, romanized: O provedenii spetsialʹnoy voyennoy operatsii) was a televised broadcast by Russian president Vladimir Putin on 24 February 2022, announcing the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Warning against international intervention

At the end of the address, Putin warned other countries against intervening in the conflict, saying:

Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia’s response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history. We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made. I hope that I have been heard.[12][10][13]

I don’t have a unified timeline of everyone’s activity, but we authorized military aid the next day, so I don’t think that the statement had a very extensive deterrent effect.

www.defense.gov/Spotlights/…/Timeline/

Feb. 25, 2022

U.S. Air Force Gen. Tod D. Wolters, commander, U.S. European Command and NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander Europe announces the activation of the NATO Response Force.

The Biden administration authorizes $350 million in military assistance from Defense Department inventories.

CaptainKickass@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 19:55 next collapse

Putler makes veiled threats to use nuclear weapons.

Again. Dude isn’t really impressing anybody anymore.

FelixCress@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 20:31 next collapse

Oh gosh, I am so scared. Another Russian red line.

atro_city@fedia.io on 12 Sep 20:12 next collapse

Is that a shred of concern? Could he lose the war if longs range missiles were allowed?

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 20:47 next collapse

Russians are crazy, but are they really crazy enough to self destruct completely?
Because I’m pretty sure they must be aware that that is what they are talking about.

[deleted] on 12 Sep 21:03 next collapse
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Deestan@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 21:05 next collapse

You and what army?

Assman@sh.itjust.works on 12 Sep 21:06 next collapse

Keep rattling that saber and it’ll fall apart

lemmylommy@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 21:19 next collapse

Wait a seconds. Haven’t they said that they are at war with NATO at least since the started the full invasion?

1o6s3nhwic@discuss.online on 12 Sep 21:28 next collapse

No, you are retarded my man

Ab_intra@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 22:00 next collapse

At this point there is no point in beliving in Putin when he talks about red lines. Apparently he would Nuke the shit out of Ukraine if they entered Russian territory but this has not happened after Kursk…

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 15:00 collapse

Well, yes. But this time they mean it. It’s completely different.

DarkCloud@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 21:34 next collapse

Negotiate the full deal to return Ukrainian, and exit peaceably. Run your stories in Russia “Ukraine successfully denazified, free and fair elections to be held” - “Ukrainian forces defeated at Russian border”…

…then go back to arresting democracy protestors, gay rights advocates, and your own alt-right talking heads… And try to keep your head on Vlad. Try to pick a successors, and a nice European country to retire to.

TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee on 13 Sep 01:05 collapse

He will never be able to retire, lmao. He’s going to die in one of his bunkers to afraid of being Gaddafied.

DarkCloud@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 03:43 collapse

Then he’ll remain a danger to the world and probably do a lot of horrible things protecting himself, which will not be a good outcome for the west.

yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de on 12 Sep 21:40 next collapse

Like the previous N times? 😴

Everyone is so afraid

Shapillon@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 21:44 collapse

The famous paper tiger. :p

AlphaOmega@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 21:50 next collapse

WW 3 has already started.

Tattorack@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 22:30 collapse

I don’t know what counts as a “world war” these days anymore.

A significant portion of the world’s militaries have been involved in various Middle Eastern conflicts, yet those haven’t been called world wars…

So… What qualifies as a world war?

[deleted] on 12 Sep 23:29 next collapse
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njm1314@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 03:18 collapse

I don’t think there’s an agreed upon definition, but something akin to simultaneous engagements at different locations across the globe (different continents?) all as part of one interconnecting war maybe?

rammer@sopuli.xyz on 13 Sep 04:30 collapse

That’s a pretty good definition. But with this definition we aren’t there yet.

The current wars aren’t interconnected.

njm1314@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 05:15 collapse

True, it would depend entirely on what India and China do in a scenario in which NATO and Russia come to open War.

NIB@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 22:00 next collapse

Doesnt this imply that, for Putin, Crimea and Donbas are not part of Russia? Those have been repeatedly hit by long range western missiles.

Maybe someone should inform the Russians living in those areas that their leader thinks less of them than other Russians.

thirteene@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 23:01 next collapse

Awkwardly ignoring the nationals in the Somoa, Guam and Virgin Islands. You can even make a case for Wales and Ireland. This is unfortunately common the more I think about it.

rammer@sopuli.xyz on 13 Sep 04:23 collapse

His soldiers don’t much care for Kursk either. Since they are looting it for all its worth.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 22:30 next collapse

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China's_final_warning

makyo@lemmy.world on 12 Sep 23:15 next collapse

Not to mention, Russia has been waging asymetric warfare tactics against NATO powers for years. If anything, it’s that they haven’t woken up to the nature of the conflict.

A32topsL@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 00:29 next collapse

NATO should at least shoot down missiles and drones which enter their sovereign airspace. Save Ukrainian lives and structures. Would also be actual experience of shooting down such actual enemy hardware in their own airspace. No simulation, no controlled environment. Would also train their AI for real.

DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 06:33 collapse

maybe attack Ukrainian separatists as they are technically not Russian, and have flying transmitters over Ukraine and in the Black Sea with anti-Putin broadcasts.

njm1314@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 03:13 next collapse

Fucking bring it

DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works on 13 Sep 03:20 next collapse

They can’t even handle Ukraine lol, can you imagine NATO?

bigFab@lemmy.world on 17 Sep 16:02 collapse

Russia have repeatedly admitted it has no chance of beating Nato. Hence the nuclear escalation is the only matter to discuss. A beated nation will press all the buttons.

Rakonat@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 03:22 next collapse

Well Putin, if you don’t want a war with NATO, you could always do the responsible thing and get the fuck out of Ukraine and stop launching illegal invasions of your neighbors.

notastatist@feddit.org on 13 Sep 14:14 collapse

I think the prefix “illegal” is not needed before invasion…

Rakonat@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 16:09 collapse

Chapter VII of the UN Charter, I.E. internationally agreed upon law by UN signatories, which Russia as a sitting member of the security council should be obliged to obey, states use of force against another country, especially other members of the UN is prohibited except in cases of self-defense or by authorization of UN Council.

So no, every invasion is not inherently illegal. That’s only explicitly true when you talk about Russia, because like every authoritarian power they only care about rules when they benefit them.

notastatist@feddit.org on 13 Sep 17:30 collapse

Wtf ? Is there an example of UN-Council authorized invasions?

Rakonat@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 17:43 collapse

Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan?

ikidd@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 04:37 next collapse

Let Ukraine use slightly longer range weapons than anything they can prove has been fired by Russia. Every escalation by Russia is permission to use the next tier of missiles to wipe them out.

lolcatnip@reddthat.com on 13 Sep 06:25 collapse

Just let Ukraine use all the conventional weapons.

gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works on 13 Sep 04:56 next collapse

Touch the boats. Seriously. Try it. See what happens.

fubarx@lemmy.ml on 13 Sep 06:08 next collapse

Anyone who has played the ‘Risk’ board game has an idea what the next moves should be.

Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 09:45 next collapse

Risk didn’t properly account for Russia’s nukes being parted out for the last 50 years by black-market scalpers.

They almost certainly lack sufficient unadulterated fuel, complete/functional nav systems, accurate arming systems or reliable detonation systems.

calcopiritus@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 15:20 collapse

So they should conquer the entirety of Asia in one turn, to get an extra 7 units per turn in order to afford their war with Europe?

Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 06:15 next collapse

Again? Wouldn’t that be like the fifth War NATO would enter with Russia, according to Putin?

lolcatnip@reddthat.com on 13 Sep 06:24 next collapse

Oh no, NATO is on the brink of starting World War VIII!

random_character_a@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 13:38 collapse

Oh no…anyway

jeremyclarkson.gif

Agent641@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 07:24 collapse

So many red lines crossed its starting to look like a red carpet.

Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 09:39 next collapse

Lol. Ok. Let’s see what little Vlad Puta calls “war”. What a scared little bitch he is.

Michal@programming.dev on 13 Sep 09:41 collapse

They’ve been launching cyber attacks at USA for years. Are they not at war yet?

realitista@lemm.ee on 14 Sep 11:29 collapse

This is exactly the point. They are already at full throttle war with the West. The only further escalation they could make would be nukes, which would be their end, NATO can take out all of Russias nuclear capacity and win the war in Ukraine all with conventional weapons.

riodoro1@lemmy.world on 13 Sep 14:55 next collapse

Somebody fucking call their bluff already

EatATaco@lemm.ee on 13 Sep 15:09 collapse

They’ve been calling it for basically the last whole war.

In fact, it’s been done pretty masterfully by not making one huge step, but small steps where no single one would force him to do something, but just over time each small step eventually gets to the point where he said he would have to do something…and hasn’t.

Doom@ttrpg.network on 14 Sep 12:09 collapse

his own game

YeetPics@mander.xyz on 13 Sep 15:28 next collapse

Putin is only 5’6".

If he was a man, he would be a manlet.

But he is an orc, 5’6" is pretty tall for an orc.

LordWiggle@lemmy.world on 14 Sep 06:10 next collapse

Another bluff. Also, we can just call it “special military operations”.

Also, NATO includes Canada. Not just the US and European countries, like the article says.

Cpo@lemm.ee on 14 Sep 07:41 next collapse

“Vladimir Putin says…”

Aaand my brain switches off. Another red line.

werefreeatlast@lemmy.world on 14 Sep 14:32 collapse

Ok well I guess we’re all going to be affected. I propose that blender thing for putin when they get him out of the smokey hole.