France to ban smoking outdoors in most places to protect children
(www.rfi.fr)
from Pro@programming.dev to world@lemmy.world on 30 May 2025 13:39
https://programming.dev/post/31306652
from Pro@programming.dev to world@lemmy.world on 30 May 2025 13:39
https://programming.dev/post/31306652
#world
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Beaches is going wayy too far imo
I feel like it depends on the beach. Haven’t been to French one’s, but I’d bet there were some touristy ones that get slammed with people. Those make sense for this. Now, some of the quieter more locals only kinda beaches that people are able to spread out more, that’s probably fine to keep… but that’s going to be a hard distinction to make clear rules on.
How ? People are garbage and throw their butts into the sand… Alot of human garbage throw their plastic and shit too, while dogs aren’t allowed on beaches? 🤦 This is a good thing + every plastic bottle or trash shouldn’t be allowed either !
I quit smoking a year ago but I would totally agree on the Beach part. However, restaurant on an outside table? Nah, nah… That’s going to far !
Anyway smoking is bad, its very expensive, you smell bad and it doesn’t bring you anything positive.
Butts, not buds, btw
Oh crap! I’ve been putting trash in my ears all those years!
I have so many questions.
So the only people that get to enjoy dining outside are smokers? Nah nah that’s going too far.
They wanna smoke? GTFO of the entire eating area away from the entrance and suck their cancer stick there.
Yes the garbage is a good point but I was mainly thinking that the smoke was the point of interest. Being bad for children. Idk. But taking away people’s freedom of smoking is also terrible. I mean, some people KNOW it’s bad but just don’t WANT to give it up either. Perhaps a small group, but they’re still people. That’s my two cents.
Protests bigger than anti-Trump ones in the US incoming in 3…2…1…
French smokers about to burn down their government buildings in protest
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/8693dd49-e1e1-4b2c-bb94-4f703bf4e641.webp">
Good!
If you can’t smoke outdoors and you can’t smoke indoors, where can you smoke?
In designated smoking spots and in your own home. I’d extend it to vapers. If I can smell the shit you blow out your lungs then it’s very probable it’s in my lungs. Didn’t sign up for that. Personal freedom reaches up to the point where you infringe on the freedom of others (in this care my freedom to not have to breathe your smoke)
True, but at least vaping isn’t going to hurt you like secondhand smoke, and vapers don’t throw butts on the ground.
There have been studies that show vaping to be just as dangerous, if not more so that “traditional cigarettes”
But what about “seconhand smoke”, if I may call it that?
Seconhand smoke from vaping is also dangerous:
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4565991/ www.healthline.com/health/second-hand-vape#effect…
TL;DR: Mainly it’s nicotine exposure, but vape smoke has been found to also contain lead, formaldehyde, & toluene.
That’s not what that study says.
prolly a phillip morris shill
Really? The only negative effects I’ve heard of were the “popcorn lung” from unsafe additives and obviously too much nicotine. Do you have a link?
…clevelandclinic.org/vaping-risk-and-illness-on-t… first result.
Evali was ONE event that happened because they used E vitamin as base instead of PG. It’s coco oil iirc and it just keep bubbling up like soap.
False
Lots of waste from single use vapes.
mostly because they don’t extract the lithium ion cells
There are a lot of smells that you are expected to deal with, it seems like kind of a reach. I consider most parfums thoroughly unpleasant but I dont expect it to be made illegal.
That being said, I’m okay with this because of the littering aspect.
The smell of perfume doesn’t cause cancer. Second-hand smoke is proven to do so.
Oh FFS, yeah, cancer for people living in the same house. Getting a whiff of cigarette smoke isn’t doing jack shit to you.
You must have a hard time being anywhere close to a car if you think you are getting cancer because of a 2 second wiff from some guys cig on a beach. Seems like exaggeration, cancer isnt some lightning bolt that hits you the moment you get a hint of something bad near you.
You’re correct, it isn’t a lightning bolt. This goes against your statement, not with it. It’s an accumulation of increased risk, and eventually it just happens (or doesn’t). The more things that increase your risk the higher the odds. You don’t just get cancer because someone smoked near you. You have an increased risk of cancer based on how much you’ve been around your entire life, and everything else that contributes. Reducing risk means reducing as many contributors as possible.
One thing is bad, so we can’t do anything about another thing? “People are being killed by cars, but we can’t work to reduce that because people are dying from heart disease!” How silly.
The impact from those few odd times someone is smoking near you in an open areas is not proportional to the risk you are attributing to it imo. I am bringing up cars to highlight that.
Less exposure to smoking also makes some people less likely to take up smoking, as its presence isn’t so normalized. So that’s a lesser burden on medical infrastructure and fewer sources of secondhand smoke. Wins all around.
Let’s ban cars too
I can get behind this.
Cars don’t make me choke, but good point! I’d ban them from the cities as well.
Air and particulate pollution from cars is actually a pretty significant factor in respiratory health.
Yes, we need to ban cars as well, pretty much all internal combustion. Unfortunately there are technical reasons that will take a while, but we’re making progress. Even worse my country has turned it political with regressives gleefully trying to turn back what progress we’ve made
I wouldn’t be so sure that my formaldhyde perfume isn’t carcinogenic, and that hasn’t been banned anywhere.
Anywhere where it doesn’t bother other people.
In your own home thats not around anyone else? Nobody wants to breath in your cancer smoke except retards.
I don’t smoke, but I also don’t want to live in a world where you can’t.
I want to live in a world where people don’t force their vices on bystanders. I don’t give a shit what you do to yourself but it matters who you do it in front of. (Smoking in a house with children should be a crime)
Everyone forces their vice on bystanders in some capacity. I consider censorship and Puritanism to be a vice that is forced in nearly every aspect of society. It’s moral fetishism.
Between the two, I’d rather see someone smoke a cigarette than be judgmental towards others.
Judginess doesn’t cause asthma attacks.
They’re free to smoke when and where they’re not harming anyone.
Like outside more than 10 feet from a doorway? Surely 10 feet is enough to change your walking path and save yourself from a waft.
If you’re a smoker you may be surprised at the distance your smoke impacts other people. The smell, the cloud, The ash extends far beyond a mere ten feet. Where I live the law is 20 feet from an entrance and that’s just not enough.
The problem is you can’t change your path from an entrance because you may have to enter and exit. The problem is further that multiple smokers tend to congregate at the mandated distance so the smoke is much worse. It needs to be significantly farther.
But then it’s worse again in a city area, where the sidewalks are also a bottleneck. I can’t always cross the street to avoid smokers but frequently have to pass right next to them. And I’d like to point out they are the ones inflicting their vice/addiction on others. It should not be my responsibility to get out of the way of their bad habit when their reasonable accommodation would not inflict it on others
My point is that it is within the realm of normal annoyances from other people and there should be a reasonable expectation of both politeness from the smoker and tolerance from others. A strong perfume, a fart, body odor, spicy food, and many other gasses can be encountered at any point from a similar distance, but nobody suggests punishing people for those.
I find the desire to over legislate things due to personal preferences about how other people behave is a bigger and more annoying vice than smoking.
This is why we can never have good things. There’s always someone who doesn’t care about their fellow human beings, doesn’t care about acting shitty, doesn’t care that their choices impact others. Run into enough anti-social people who will not cooperate with society and the natural reaction is to establish a rule.
I would much prefer we have a civilized society where people care about their impact on others and equally care that others have a right to their preferences and we can all figure out how to live with each other. But people suck. Or too many people do
And yes, people do complain about excessive perfume, body odor, and flatulence. I personally would not legislate these because it’s a lot less frequent, a lot less potential lung damage to bystanders and people show shame. If I complain about someone having too much perfume or it triggers a perfectly normal allergic reaction reaction, you can bet they’ll be embarrassed and likely to try not to reoffend. If I complaint about smokers too close to an entrance stinking up my clothes, making me inhale their ashes, ruining my dining experience, do you really think they’ll be as accommodating?
Guess it’s time to quit. :)
I don’t smoke.
This just in, vaporizer sales spike in France.
Also in the news, French citizens are vaping in restricted areas regardless of regulations.
I enjoy spreading my ass cheeks and feeling the sun on my anus. It really takes the edge off, ya know what I mean? If I can’t do it in the park or the school playground, where the fuck can I get my sunnies?
School playground might be a bit much, but I unironically support your right to sun your anus in the park. We all have them, we shouldn’t be ashamed.
Exactly. Those damn kids don’t deserve to be protected. Little shitters
I live in a country with a strict outdoor smoking ban and I love it.
There are dedicated smoking areas for people to smoke outdoors, but they are really small and cramped with smokers.
It’s actually really nice, you never see or smell people smoking unless you wonder too close to the designated smoking areas which are often really out of the way.
The streets are not really clean here, but at least it’s not cigarette butts. Even things like vapes need to be smoked in a designated area, but sometimes people do it on the street anyway.
Nice. I think our only real outdoor restriction is “within 20’ of an entrance”. But it’s not enough.
That reminds me I need to complain to one of my favorite restaurants. They have an ash tray outside so people are less likely to litter and it is more than 20’ from the entrance. However it’s too close. When the patio is open, the smokers are just across the sidewalk and it ruins the meal
For beaches, and parks, and hiking trails, and places where smoking is usually already banned (at least here), sure.
Standing outside my companies building and taking my smoke break should be fair game.
There are no kids around a random office building at 1:30pm on a Tuesday.
Sure, as long as you’re not inflicting it on people trying to get in and out of the building.
Be aware that smoking has a very strong smell that you may not be entirely aware of since you’re around it all the time, plus you’re (hopefully) not asthmatic. You may be surprised how far away that should be
I usually hit a weed vape which has a much milder smell and less irritants (I make my own carts using live resin and pyur thinner, which is about the cleanest Liquidizer you can get.)
That being said I usually park my car across the lot from the building, and blow it out the window.
Yeah, on the one hand I don’t like vapes as an enabler of bad habits, especially as edibles are so much more available now. Anything you breathe in is going to have a negative impact on your long term health. However vaping means you’re not inflicting your vice on anyone else and you’re avoiding most of the long term health impact of breathing in burnt leaves and chemicals. Vapes still stink but so much less and I can’t really claim second hand smoke danger
But so much the better that you show that courtesy to your fellow humans. Thank you
Anybody who thinks they are breathing clean air just because they banned smoking is kidding themselves. At least the cigarette makes the smoker happy and causes minimal damage to passersby when smoked outside—meanwhile the massive air pollution that companies emit is shortening lifespans of every breather across the globe.
Sure, don’t smoke inside, whatever, but the criminalization and exclusion of addictive behavior is bullshit, in my opinion, especially when it comes in the form of pearl clutching “for the children”.
this is like the only thing a government has done ‘for the children’ that actually benefits anyone at all
Let’s do both.
Most restaurants in France have outdoor seating. Finally can eat without smelling that foul shit.
Would be if asshole that smoke weren’t also promoting other harmfull chemicals as-well but hey, we can get to those next bucko.
So where do you fall on the natural tobacco brands?
Just because it doesn’t solve the whole problem, doesn’t mean it’s not a good step forward.
I’m really encouraged that except for regressives in the us, the world seems to finally be turning toward renewable energy, EVs, high speed rail. Even in the US, cities are starting to build transit! There’s a couple more big steps. If we keep taking steps it will turn into moving forward!
Shame it doesn’t limit outside smoking in designated areas only. Still an unexpected win, it’s good when most other laws voted recently were just dangerous anti science shit.
Europeans should get a new hobby, smoking is gross and you smell like burnt shit
Good i hope more countries adopt this. Türkiye is terrible for this, lovely country and people but there are smokers almost everywhere.
I’m from the UK where it’s at least banned indoors.
Visiting European pubs/bars where people still smoke is nuts and my clothes always stink after
Yeah, went to Spain, and woke up with a sore throat and really smelly clothes. Took me back to before the ban and realised how good that was for everyone
I don’t know where you went, but since 2011 it’s been illegal to smoke indoors in Spain. It’s still legal to smoke on outdoor seating in bars/restaurants, but fortunately that’s going to be made illegal as well.
It was illegal but not enforced at all or followed by the locals, so not followed by anybody else either. During the day was fine but in the evening and night it was like there was no law
Let me guess, Mallorca? I’m guessing the tourist places are more lax in that aspect, because there is no way you can smoke inside where I live, the pubs can get a very big fine if you do.
I was in Vegas a couple weeks back. Same problem.
The same ban exists in France and most other EU countries. And the fines/administrative closures are quite stringent.
Just depends on what sells the legislation. People can be very entitled but they might bend if it’s to “protect the children”
I’d argue the less prevalent smoking is in public the less likely children will turn to smoking in the future. makes sense to me
There is an absolute metric shitload of proven scientific evidence that smoke inhalation causes lasting damage to developing lungs and hearts. Do you deny this scientific evidence?
I took it to mean that we should protect everything and everybody, not just the children. I could be wrong in my interpretation.
Smoking should be banned. Full stop. When my neighbours smoke I can’t even open my window, I have asthma. The smell attaches to the walls. There is also my kitchen where I cook and I can’t enjoy my little place outside because it constantly smells cigarette because they smoke regulary.
It works in this case. I believe developing lungs are more susceptible to damage plus children have more life ahead of them to live with damaged lungs. Most importantly we want them to have the opportunity to live without the lung damage we already have.
And of course the practical reason is they already can’t smoke. You’re not taking anything away from them
Replace “children” with “non-consenting people” and you’re getting close. Children are the most non-consenting people in society and deserve special protection accordingly.
We’ve learned as a species that banning people from having bad things doesnt work since other bad people will make their own knockoffs and sell them, so we make using said bad things as PAINFULL as possible to protect everyone else. Win-win go fuck yourselves smoking retards.
Banning children seems like it would be more effective.
Seems like another reason for the French to start a pointless, nationwide riot… Again…
Reasoning aside, i agree that it shouldn’t be permitted outside one’s home
Dang, France is really about to take away the one thing that the USA has always been ahead of them on.
You could say smoking is one of the most human activities ever. Does nothing but actively harm and potentially kill everything around you. Just what we’re the best at.
But seriously now. Can we speed up smoking bans? Like, everywhere?
Some European countries, including mine, has decided to raise the smoking age by 1 every year, essentially banning the next generation from smoking. Not really rapid or speeding up, but future is looking good
There was a slight problem where some people were allowed to smoke for portion of the year after birthday and before the age increase, for every year
That I can’t get on board with personally. Everyone has a vice.
Imagine doing that with cannabis or drinking. Probably wouldn’t get near the support even though those are also vices.
Second hand drinking isn’t really a thing and I don’t see people smoking weed publicly all the time to the point it’s disgusting to eat at cafe, at least never noticed it, so most don’t really care.
It’s irrelevant. You’re telling people what they can and cannot do based on when they were born.
It’d be one thing if no one could smoke. But youre not saying that. You’re strictly saying because you were born after x date that you can never smoke.
That’s entirely messed up and my point being it’s terribly against personal freedom.
And you basically proved my point- people will make allowances for other vices but not this.
Note that I was telling what the government does, not what is my opinion on this.
If I was steering the wheel, I’d just ban all drug consumption in public spaces, but allow non-destructive ones in personal spaces (your property), which includes tobacco and weed. I’d probably also limit the alcohol limit in drinks to something like 11%, so no absolut vodkas or smirnoffs as those tends to cause serious brain damage, which in return affects everyone around who have to deal with your vegetable state even when sober
Disclaimer: I’m from east europe and alcohol consumption is kinda out of control for most people (yes, most people according to my experience)
Anything but prevent phillip morris from selling their shit huh?
What country is it? I always wanted this for mine.
Latvia
static.lsm.lv/media/2023/02/large/1/k23w.png
Yeah prohibition is famous for working very well and not have any side effect.
The prolific smoking in France really hits home for me when I was subjected to a cloud of smoke on a train platform. I can’t remember the last time my personal space was so violated waiting for a train.
Oh, man! I’m goin’. That’s all there is to it. I’m fuckin’ goin’.
I was in Paris just after the Olympics ended and I don’t think I smelled any tobacco at all. Marseille? Cigarettes everywhere. I couldn’t even enjoy eating at the cafés.
This comment section is a disaster, just as bad as reddit. Comments of no substance on the side of popular opinion get upvotes, and waves of downvotes come for anyone who disagrees even a little, and even if they do it in a reasonable way.
I’m mildly asthmatic so I don’t smoke, vape, etc. I have tried a few times and it is simply too much for my lungs to cope with. I still think banning people from smoking in public parks or on beaches is a bit much, and not doing the same with vaping seems like a strange double standard. I had a college roommate who both vaped and smoked, and the vaping bothered me more. I still put up with it.
Hopefully enforcement is reasonable - respectful smokers who deliberately try to keep their distance should be allowed to enjoy themselves, but I understand prosecuting(?) those who show no care and smoke right next to nonsmokers.
You just need to find the right community preferably where there are no bots, trolls
There’s one section of benches on my town common that smells like cigarettes from all the way over on the sidewalk. Even if it’s empty. There are so many smokers that the stink won’t go away even though it’s outside. Why do they get to ruin that section of park for everyone else?
We have this one park with a small beach section. They try to rope off a s,all smoking section away from everyone else, but you can still smell it. Why do they get to ruin the public beach for everyone else?
Sometimes other people do things we dislike, c’est la vie.
Lemmy seems much worse for this than reddit TBH.
There’s a number of topics about which any dissent is met with vehement derision. As in those engaging in wrong think are assholes.
I don’t really know of course but I suspect it’s because lemmy has a narrower demographic than reddit. Opinions are just generally more homogeneous. I guess I’m describing an echo chamber.
The issue with smoking is the second hand smoke. It causes cancer, among many other health issues. Vape on the other hand doesn’t really have this same concern.
They aren’t banning smoking because of nicotine, they are banning it because it causes cancer.
Yes, secondhand smoke is bad. But we are talking about outdoor environments where it should usually be possible for smokers to keep their distance.
As for vaping, it hasn’t really been around long enough yet to know for sure what the health risks are regarding the secondhand aerosol exposure, but there is reason to be concerned. It is almost certainly not as bad as secondhand smoke, but there are still risks.
While I agree, these laws aren’t being made because smokers keep accidentally smoking near others, it’s because a large number of smokers can’t be assed to keep their distance. The major place I notice smokers is when they are just meandering through a large crowd as if everyone around them is fine with the smoke.
I get that, but shouldn’t it be possible then to target that kind of behavior specifically rather than all smoking? Rather than banning smoking on x beach or in y park, they could ban smoking within x meters of a minor or non consenting adult. It would be more complicated but also more fair.
Ultimately I don’t know what all of the problems with that approach would be, but it would make more sense to me.
To protect children, meanwhile the soil is filled with cancer-inducing products pumped away illegally by big chemistry plants. In belgium and netherlands we can barely eat our own produce thanks to this. When are we gonna ban them??
Ban children!?
GOOD point. They shouldn’t ban cigarettes until everything else bad is also banned.
They shouldn’t ban cigarettes.
They should ban phillip morris and co who manifacture even more harmful tabacco to turn everybody into an addict.
There’s always one. Always fucking one.
But they shouldn’t ban anything else bad unless everything bad is banned. Fuck we can’t ban shit
yeah also ban those… how does all that affect this exactly?
Uplifting news. All smoking does is burn a hole in wallet. Least drinking and prescription drugs do something.
I love how everyone supporting this just assumes you’ll still be able to smoke at your own home when it doesn’t saying anything of the sort. It explicitly states ‘where children COULD be present’. This is literally everywhere short of some BDSM dungeon. This is basically going to make the population choose between smoking and having kids.
Which actually sounds fair. Kids do not choose to be born and do not need to inhale smoke because parents are addicted to smoking
Giving people the expectation of clean air and fresh water is far too liberal of a concept these days.
It’s always cleaner if not one is smoking around you 😅
Hell I’d start smoking again.
Yeah don’t smoke near your kids. It’s not that hard.
They’re also making the population choose between drinking and driving.
No they’re not. Do they outlaw drinking everywhere children might one day walk through.
Mind your ankles. The slopes around here are slippery.
Do you often spill drinks into the mouths of passerby’s?
The issue isn’t the substance, it’s the second hand smoke. Children are smart enough to know “this is a thing my parents do that I can’t” but no level of smart can keep the air they breath from containing smoke.
Yes they do wtf. Dont drink and drive.
Well No, those laws usually only apply to Public areas, so as to Not Hurt your right of doing jackshit in your Home. At least the cannabis law in Germany has been designed Like it (but alas, cannabis is Not as much detrimental to the health of people around one as Smoking is).
France just went up a few points in my estimation
I thought everyone in France smoked, including the kids, no?
I gave mine nicotine patch from age 5.
all the more reason. what’s the point of banning something if no one’s doing it
In cliché world yeah… But in reality, not so much. 😀
It been years… no… decades that smoking have nearly disappeared around me - including in the office.
I work with hundreds of people and the amount of people smoking can fit one hand. 25 years ago, i needed more than 2 hands to count them. And in my family, nobody starting at my parents generation and younger smokes.
Same story with wine during lunch. 25 years ago, it was several bottles each day at lunches.
Today, no more wine bottle and the trend started since easily 15 years now. Only for big occasion and the quantity have decreased a lot.
People drink more beers now. But far less than wine.
Whether its actually enforced or not will be the question. I went to Disneyland Paris 7 years ago, there were signs everywhere saying smoke only in designated areas but there were people smoking all over and none of the staff seemed to care.
LOL like here in Montreal I see people smoking right next to the “No smoking within 3 meters” or whatever sign.
I like these laws but also I want to smoke in some places. I’d love a return of places like cigar lounges and whisky bars
On-and-off smoker here (mostly off)
In my experience, nicotine is great for moderating rage and resentment. It can help in bad situations and also provides a space where one can effectively shut distractions out and enter a somewhat meditative state to work on issues. It performs this task very, very well.
It is not the same as “just taking a walk” or “standing outside”. Absent-mindedly smoking provides a different experience. I am envious of people who can go to the park and get the same kind of effect out of it, but for a raft of different reasons I can’t reach the same experience.
I know smoking damages nearly every part of your body. I know it’s addictive. I know many smokers aren’t considerate of others, and blow smoke all over people downwind, in through windows and leave cigarette butts everywhere. I know wildfires start from improperly extinguished butts. I am not one of those people, and take pains to enjoy a cigarette where I will impact as few people as possible. And when my life looks up? I quit, because I don’t need it anymore, and it serves no useful purpose.
Unfortunately, there seems to be less and less room in the world to create the kind of space where one can take a few minutes such as this. And that I think is the crux of the resistance here.
We keep asking for more out of everyone, and usually to no benefit for themselves. We keep making organizational decisions which result in people feeling stressed, angry, resentful, and then in turn quite deliberately fail to understand when people pick up a vice that is harming them… and then try to ban that behavior, or sanctimoniously tut away that they are somehow selfish for wanting a break from it all for five damned minutes.
There’s so many different instances under which this theme plays out. I doubt this law will be enforced evenly, and it seems predictably authoritarian and counterproductive like many substance control laws. We can’t stop people stuffing a bunch of plants into a pipe, or into a paper wrapping and smoking it. It’s simply too easy to do, and it provides too much utility as a temporary respite from life for people to stop.
Want to solve it? Try finding ways of making life less terrible for the critical mass of people so that they won’t feel a need to smoke. And even then some still will, maybe out of spite, addiction (medical/psych treatment could be offered?) or downright contrarianism; but maybe few enough that it won’t matter. That’s the hard, and proper, fix for this. Smoking cessation drives are quite effective, as well as reasonable limitations on where one can smoke, and I think that is a fine policy balance.
I think cigarettes, especially manufactured ones, should be available and taxed appropriately for the healthcare burden they will produce later in life. Everyone should be aware of the health considerations in no uncertain terms. I think it’s appropriate to limit smoking around areas where at-risk populations live and congregate (incl. Children), and the rest really has to be allowed to work itself out in the ad-hoc grey area loosely defined as “Community”, “Consideration”, “Conscience” and “Respect”.
The Law is too heavy handed a tool to be expected to succeed here.
Anyway, I’m sure they’ve already thought about all of this and discussed it at length. Just like taxing older diesel cars without considering the consequences to folks the rural south who were unable to afford new vehicles.
The problem is that inconsiderate smokers are actively hurting the health of the people suffering from their inconsideration. Passive smoking is a thing, and it has long term consequences.
So while it sucks for the individual freedom of considerate smokers like yourself, banning public smoking protects a lot of people who get their health damaged by what is in my experience in France most of the smokers. And protection is one of the purposes of the law.