Israel will not stop war until Palestinians displaced from Gaza and Syria partitioned, minister says
(www.middleeasteye.net)
from Oofnik@kbin.earth to world@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 2025 10:00
https://kbin.earth/m/world@lemmy.world/t/1267995
from Oofnik@kbin.earth to world@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 2025 10:00
https://kbin.earth/m/world@lemmy.world/t/1267995
Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich reiterates call for 'hundreds of thousands' of Palestinians to be forcibly displaced from Gaza
#world
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why stop there?
I think Israel will not stop the war until its forced to do so.
They intend to expand a lot and be as globally independent as possible so they cant be punished for their crimes with trade sanctions.
They already can’t, with Papa America shielding them and funneling them billions of dollars in equipment and funding.
Few countries have sanctions against Israel.
Most of Europe and India are on good terms.
Yeah but they seem to have very big goals. At some point the sanction situation will change.
Yeah, they’re still working on their final solution to this.
Probably provoke every neighbor until it’s a big active conflict in the entire region and then say they’re the only one capable of “maintaining peace” aka kill everybody so better start sending weapons.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
I believe their comment was in reference to this.
So basically, yes. Kill everyone they can.
That’s a bingo.
Israel already won against their neighbors and Iran in this war.
The main impediment to Israeli military operations are morale and manpower of the soldiers. Reservists aren’t showing up as they used to. They are tired, some opposed to the war.
The reservists serving had their lives on hold and their businesses fail. It’s not sustainable. It’s impacting the economy as well.
The IDF is overextended or will be soon. It’s a people‘s army with everyone serving. Refusal to serve has forced political change before.
Netanyahu isn’t secure in his power either. If the Shin Bet and army don’t agree with his policies, a government crisis is possible. Elections are expected over the next year as well.
Rome conquered the world in a war of ‘self defense’.
i know they cut the quote short:
i mean why do that
Pretty sure they mean ‘formatted’
Oh fuck off.
I think it’s
funnydarkly humorous but read the room, dude.Tbh the real-world cruelty overcomes any joke. There’s nothing humorous about wanting to wipe millions of people off the face of the Earth just because someone doesn’t want them there. Fuck the Israeli government. Besides, the room was empty when I commented.
Oof…
Not bad, but this is the sort of crass dark humor I would expect late on a Friday night after at least five beers with my friends.
The mean genocided.
Time and place.
What’s their beef with Syria still?
They don’t own it yet
Well, see, Syria has land they want and people they don’t.
Their beef is that Syria is actually Israel, just like Palestine, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, etc.
Thanks, I appreciate the sources.
Syria is next.
Cant wait to see the response of the “its just against the terrorists” crowd
Israeliz are the terrorists with nukes in the area, it’s uncanny how they keep flinging accusations and throwing American weaponry at everyone that doesn’t like their land grabs
And blackmailing germany :(
and thier use of AIPAC to fund politicians and donors in the states, have largely quashed university protests agains tthem.
Smotrich is a horrible person. He and Ben Gvir want ethnic cleansing.
Easier to list who doesn’t want ethic cleansing with those in power
Wouldn’t even have a list. The one anti-zionist in the Knesset, Over Cassif, has been repeatedly suspended. Not that one voice in a sea of genocidal voices is any real power to begin with, of course
Just openly saying you want genocide. As you do.
Always have been.
yep. Its been the same war for the last ~80 years.
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
“It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion
Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “ — Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.
On the 6th of February 1948, during a Mapai Party Council, Ben-Gurion responded to a remark from a member of the audience that “we have no land there” [in the hills and mountains west of Jerusalem] by saying: “The war will give us the land. The concepts of “ours” and “not ours” are peace concepts, only, and in war they lose their whole meaning” (Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 6 February 1948. p.211)
“Greater Israel” is not just about murdering palestinians, but more generally stealing all of the middle east.
mepei.com/greater-israel-an-ongoing-expansion-pla…
Where is the “I won’t support Genocide Joe” crowd now?
Probably discussing the latest news about how Biden never pressured Israel for ceasefire
It was just another lie to give political cover as he aided and abetted an ongoing genocide.
Well, at least Joe is out of power, now. Phew! Crisis averted.
No, Gaza is still being bombed. Children are being intentionally starved. It’s still a crisis.
So you’re saying the current president is supporting Genocide? It’s weird, I don’t hear anyone on the left yelling about it. It’s almost like they don’t actually care.
tf? you are the one using this to aire a political grievance.
Dude you’re either thinking emotionally or being disingenuous. Take a step back.
I think the word is sarcastic
Yes, the current president is supporting genocide.
You don’t hear anyone on the left yelling about it? Maybe you should pay attention, protest movements are ongoing. Protest tactics and media coverage may change in the Trump era, but the anti-genocide movement is still strong in my opinion.
If you want to make some sort of political point then you should come out and say it. Hiding behind sarcasm is off putting when discussing a serious subject like genocide. Its almost like you don’t actually care.
You don’t care about people dying do you? You’re mad at Arabs because they costed you the elections lmao
We are yelling about it, you aren’t listening because you don’t actually care and are trying to use this as a “gotcha”
Yeah dude, Biden totally got “political cover” about Gaza.
Yes, the lie that Biden was pushing for a ceasefire gave him tons of political cover. It was one of his administration’s primary Gaza talking points. They used this lie to deflect against valid criticism for months.
Even AOC fell for the lie, saying Harris was working tirelessly for a ceasefire in Gaza
Gone.
Their man, Trump, got elected, so they don’t need to exist anymore.
They all realize they were part of a targeted disinformation campaign and regret their life choices.
Tbf though, Kamala could have gotten 4% of inactive voters in 3 key states she could have won. Instead those voters stayed home and now we’ve got front row seats to the end of an empire
It’s not disinformation that Joe Biden enabled and aided the Genocide of Palestinians. Trump doing the same doesn’t rewrite history.
Kamala could have gotten all those voters if she just took a stand against genocide.
I think the thinking was that turning against Israel more publicly would have mostly garnered more entirely worthless votes in states that are already blue and risked losing at risk rust belt states.
If those voters would have been a bit smarter they could have threatened to stay home but actually voted against fascism then continued to petition the incoming regime which unlike Trump isn’t actually for genocide. Now there is a good chance for most of those folks you want to save being dead when its possible to reverse course IF its possible to reverse course and we don’t have a canceled election and a civil war thereafter.
They were actually for genocide. That’s why they partook in an ongoing genocide for over a year. Your entire premise is wrong.
And they lost with that strategy. So their thinking was clearly wrong, unless they planned to lose.
It’s not clear the alternative strategy would have helped AT ALL. A very large portion of Americans actually believed that Trump would either help the economy or help the position of white folks and Christians. Everything else was a side show. That is why they elected him. Things were going pretty good economically before the pandemic and white Christians. That is why we elected essentially Hitler because we are stupid bigots.
Its absolutely clear. If Harris had acknowledging the genocide about 2 weeks before the election would have won over youth, the left, and muslims, which is a vastly larger voting group than the 80% of jewish people who support israel-- or even all jewish voters. Jewish voters are a tiny group-- even just muslim voters are a larger group. Jewish voters arent a compelling voter group, they are a compelling funding group.
But two weeks before the election Harris could have weathered the funding downturn. Her husband would have left her, but no great loss there. Harris could have won.
That’s just not true though. It would have helped across the board but especially in critical swing states
Here Are 34 Polls That Show A Ceasefire & Weapons Embargo Help Kamala Win
Kamala Would Have Won With A Weapons Embargo
The blame is entirely on the campaign for chosing to ignore and even go against those voters instead of make concessions to gain as much votes as possible. They chose to prioritize continuing the genocide over winning against Trump.
Polls have been close not only wildly inaccurate but so incredibly spread out that you could find a few to support literally anyone position after the fact.
That’s why it’s important to consider how the questions are framed, not disregard polling. And no, the polling methodology used is not wildly inaccurate, what a baseless claim to try to disregard the actual articles.
Progressive policies that a majority of Americans support
Here Are 34 Polls That Show A Ceasefire & Weapons Embargo Help Kamala Win Kamala Would Have Won With A Weapons Embargo Democrats’ Working-Class Failures, Analysis Finds, Are ‘Why Trump Beat Harris’ 2024 Post-Election Report: A retrospective and longitudinal data analysis on why Trump beat Harris How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies Tim Walz’s Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
It is very very hard to predict who is going to win even when elections that aren’t all that close. Asking people how they would behave especially people who didn’t even bother to vote is fraught. People who aren’t happy about something are apt to say they would do something about it but they showed more about how motivated they are by not even bothering to show up in actual reality. I think anyone who tells you if you did this they would have voted for you is quite frankly full of shit.
White people voted for Trump because they believed they would be privileged. Men voted for him because they believed they would be privileged. Conservatives voted for him because he would appoint conservative judges Financially ignorant people voted for him because he would cut their taxes and encourage business. Republican’s voted for him because him being a Republican was far more important than any other factor. Most people who call themselves independent flatter themselves by saying so and in fact vote Red or Blue 95-99% of the time. Those who lean red were never going to vote for a non-white women running under the blue ticket.
None of these factors had anything to do with Israel or Gaza. People in America are selfish and self centered they were never going to vote differently based on Gaza.
Way to ignore both articles that show just how much more support Harris would have gotten by standing by an arms embargo, which is both the popular and morally correct position to have.
Yeah, people in America are selfish. That doesn’t change the reality that they recognize those progressive policies are to their own benefit. If you ignore the material conditions of America and have no material analysis of the situation, it’s not possible to recognize the root cause of voter apathy and populism, let alone the differences between left populism and right populism
People saying that support when you present them with a moral issue isn’t the same thing as them actually turning up to vote. People have all sorts of opinions about what they ought to do and if you ask them if they intend to exercise, floss their teeth, and support the little chidrens in Africa. This doesn’t mean they will be doing ANYTHING of note given a chance.
Track actual attendance at gym, check their teeth, and ask for receipts for their donations to feed the starving kids. You’ll find that most of them fell short.
I don’t care about your opinions. You have nothing to refute the actual articles, you just want to be right regardless of the significant amount of evidence that show you’re wrong about public support for a weapons embargo to stop a fucking genocide
I don’t think you can show via a survey after the fact that someone would have voted differently. I believe the entire idea is nonsense.
The 34 polls are throughout the campaign, it’s very clear you didn’t even bother opening the link, let alone look at the data.
This proves more people say they would support someone who says they will do something that aligns with what people say they support. It doesn’t mean the person actually shows up. Someone put on the spot may give you the answer you want and still not show up. I don’t think categorically you can prove the kind of thing you want to prove. If polls were remotely accurate we would be talking about president Hillary Clinton
Categorically Americans don’t give a fuck about what is happening to people in other countries. The same group most likely to say they do young people are the one that is least likely to even show up to spend 15 minutes voting. You can keep pretending that this shows what you think it shows but I will continue thinking that it shows people tell you the right answer when you put them on the spot.
The polls are accurate. I have no interest in your personal belief, that doesn’t change the reality of the evidence.
When in the last 9 years or so have the polls been accurate enough to make this statement? The stated margin for error is usually big enough to go either way and the actual accuracy has been less than one would suppose from the margin of error.
You can find the margin of error in all the polls linked, you can even find the methodology of each polling organization on their respective sites. Not only are the margin of errors small, the reality of the significance of the polls are reinforced by the sheer amount, done by multiple organizations, all in the same ballpark. You have no basis for discrediting these polls, which is evident by your lack of engagement with the source material.
I’m not going to individually go over 34 polls so lets pick the first arbitrarily
split-ticket.org/…/we-polled-the-nation-heres-wha…
First one is about Biden it shows 13% going to third parties and 6% I don’t know. That is interesting but useless in determining anything of note. It’s also pretty wrong. More people always SAY they are going to vote third party than actually do. They lie to polls or to themselves.
Next we have Harris v Trump with 8% undecided equally useless for determining our counterfactual.
Next we have a question wherein they are arbitrarily asked if they would support “A candidate who” not a particular person but a arbitrary person who holds a given view. We learn that based on what people SAY there are always enough undecided to swing it either way but more people say they would vote for a democrat who holds those views. Now at last we have something interesting right well…
The problem is that something which adds blue voters in a blue state or too few to swing a red state is worth nothing in the final analysis. We know that some people say they would vote not for a actual candidate but for or against an imaginary hypothetical candidate but not if these gains would result in a single EC vote even if 100% true. The fact that again its a hypothetical person instead of the actual folks that people have strong feelings about is again also problematic.
In the end I’m no more convinced than I started. I’m not doing this 33 more to prove that the rest is equally trash because you wasted my time by not collecting a singular example instead of a huge list of bullshit.
You didn’t even read the correct part of the first poll, so I’m not surprised by your ‘conclusion.’ Here’s data from 4 more of the 34 I already had quoted out 6 months ago.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e28398f8-6942-4a21-a404-b3cb9c859221.png">
Quotes
> In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely. <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6e9cc08e-f3d0-4890-aac2-b1083c960c66.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/be7337d9-c268-4259-a67e-12b213723e58.jpeg">
Quotes
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/25266a51-d7c1-4651-b688-39307a65d2ff.png"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5035196a-eab3-4aab-bf04-3be9ce4a8e71.png"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/55464094-7df4-466a-8706-4d06ecc06fda.png">
Quotes
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/951ff903-0b67-4cd0-898e-bfca77beb286.jpeg">
Quotes
> Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally. > Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza. <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d89bb81d-ec75-4333-8910-9100963805fb.png"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/042756d5-6029-4a42-ac55-59c4bf8b6fd8.png">
White people and men believed that electing a white man who said that it was ok to privilege white men was ok.
Religious and conservatives saw him appointing judges doing their will.
Many believed he would cut their taxes and these tax cuts would stimulate the economy.
People don’t always vote for things they told you they voted for. People act shocked that we elected a brainless piece of human filth. The filth told them he would give them things they want. People didn’t vote for or against gaza on average they just don’t actually care.
Speak for yourself
Progressive policies that a majority of Americans support
Democrats’ Working-Class Failures, Analysis Finds, Are ‘Why Trump Beat Harris’ 2024 Post-Election Report: A retrospective and longitudinal data analysis on why Trump beat Harris How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies Tim Walz’s Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
in the grand scheme of voting issues, foreign policy isnt on voters top priority(maybe for michiganers, and whitmers wierdly hanging out with trump awful lot lately), is domestic issues unfortunately. every president had support israel and never once was it the forefront as election issue, until trump wanted to be in power again the MSM started to post pro-israeli propaganda through the airwaves, plus russia early on was fueling the “i am not voting dems for the first ime over this” protests.
Ah yes my friend who got bombed in lebannon were "part of targetted disinformation campaign "
If you can’t stand up against actively supporting an open genocide, you aren’t going to stand up for democracy.
America has been cooked. And yes, Biden is/was complacent
Kamala whose husband is a promiment zionist, campaign manager was a zionist, and who could never formulate and articulate a single policy position on her own in any of her campaign runs? That Kamala? You’re just huffing hopium. Yes, and maybe aliens would land and help us out too. I mean come on.
While we are proposing far fetched nonsense possibilities that go against what the candidates said they’d do: Did you consider that Trumps well documented anti semitism would give an even better result than Kamala?
What makes you worthy of consideration that you wont give to other innocents being starved and blown up with our own tax-purchased bombs? Are you supposed to be special to me because you live closer or have whiter skin or something? Well you’re not.
Voters didn’t allow ultra fascists to take power, idiot. Your Democrats did. They knew they could count on their base to be cowards otherwise they might have considered the electoral implications of supporting genocide.
If a pedophile politician lose to a fascist, it’s on him for being pedophile. Same goes for genociders
Oh noo, now YOU have to suffer the things you were totally OK to happen to others?
Tinyest violin start playing
This is some copium. Genocide apologizing copium. Not exactly something I’d want to be carrying around. Do better
I had to sit with my friend as she was calling her friends family.
The friend got bombed.
Screw your disabled friends asshole.
I don’t think the children in Gaza think about American politics that much, you sheltered idiot.
Not supporting Genocide Donald.
You say this like Biden was bringing an end to the Genocide.
Trump partaking in Genocide doesn’t mean Biden didn’t. It was just publicly revealed that Biden never demanded a ceasefire (as if we didn’t know that already), Biden sent weapons to Israel to use in their genocidal campaign, Biden sent warships to ward off and defend against any attacks against Israel for their genocidal campaign. Trump doing the same doesn’t mean Biden didn’t do those things.
You so smugly using Trump’s continuation of the genocide as a form of “gotcha” (again, as if we didn’t know he would do that) is truly just absolutely morally gross and despicabe.
You deserve Trump.
There they are!
You say I deserve Trump… like I’m the one suffering here. Question: do you honestly think Joe Biden would have permitted the removal of all Palestinians from Gaza? Would that even be a conversation right now? How about turning Gaza into a real estate opportunity for the sitting president?
I’m not the one suffering the brunt of consequences for your decision to elect Trump over Biden, it’s the Palestinian people who are. All of you made a choice based on principles that you don’t have the political power to support, and the result is one that is far worse for the actual people affected. That makes the choice morally inferior. And, it’s a shame to see what is happening to the people impacted by it.
“You say I deserve Trump… like I’m the one suffering here.”
If you’re American and not ultra-wealthy you are/will be, just like I will.
“Question: do you honestly think Joe Biden would have permitted the removal of all Palestinians from Gaza?”
Yes. Just as he was perfectly fine with them bombing everything from hospitals to schools usimg the weapons he continues to send and using genocidal rhetoric. You would have to be insane to think otherwise.
“Would that even be a conversation right now?”
No. It would just be another day of Joe Biden and the Democrats enabling the genocide while “liberals” sit by and let it happen and calling anyone who opposed it a crazy radical. Just like it was during the year long genocidal campaign he DID engage in.
“I’m not the one suffering the brunt of consequences for your the decision to elect Trump over Biden, it’s the Palestinian people who are.”
This is the same blatant denialism of Genocide because Joe Biden was the one doing it I just critiqued.
We dont have to wonder. Biden proposed moving the Palestinians to Egypt, at Netenyahus suggestion. Egypt rejected the idea and warned it would shut down relations with Israel if they tried, and then Israel backtracked saying they would never have allowed it anyway because it might permit “terrorists” to return and attack someday.
reason.com/…/trump-revives-bidens-failed-proposal…
The Israelis are the one’s actually murdering people
Nobody said otherwise.
With weapons from multiple other countries who keep resupplying them or giving other political cover to prevent consequences to Israel committing genocide and other preemptive attacks
The U.S. gov is making sure that no one intervenes and stops them. They are a very direct accomplice.
Without U.S. cover, Israel would get their shit pushed in.
Surely thrilled that they were able to punish Democrats
I see — As long as the democrats suffer, it justifies the actual genocide that will take place on account of their decision.
It’s good to see the left punishing people who agree with them on 50% of things over people who agree with them on 0% of things. That is a recipe for success. Go team.
You just had a full back and forth with sarcasm and came away despondent.
I think the hope is that Democrats will see Israel as being in league with Trump and stop supporting them. Of course given how costly losing this election was, such a strategy would be a Pyrrhic victory even if it were successful. Which is doubtful, given that I view the Democrats as “controlled opposition”.
I consider it insult to say I agree with either of our 2 parties on 50% of the issues. Almost all of both of their policy positions are derivations on “how will this metastasize the capital markets faster” and not “how will this improve the wellbeing of the citizens of society, preferably at the expense/taxation of the capital markets that we kindly permit to profit off of society at all so long as they don’t undermine said society to increase their profits”
Both parties would be lighting themselves on fire to prevent the latter. The tail has been wagging the dog for a long time, the fucking profoundly perverse servitude of a society to an economy. It obviously needs to be the other way around or… Well this.
I voted for Harris.
But can you explain exactly how things would have gone differently in Gaza other than the rhetoric if Harris had won? She was all in on the genocide just like Biden, Pelosi, Schiff, etc.
Just because Harris was clearly the better choice overall doesn’t mean she (and Biden) wasn’t and isn’t dead wrong about their fealty to Netanyahu.
Doing the both sides thing won’t help here. It distracts from the real problem.
That isn’t both-sidesing.
I said that Harris was clearly better overall. I have a preference and I acted on it, which is the opposite of what both-sidesing is trying to achieve.
However, on the particular issue of genocide in Gaza, I only see differences in rhetoric, not differences in behavior.
My brother in Christ. Israeli officials were literally waiting for Trump to get elected.
They KNEW people like you were going to hand them the Gaza Strip. Acknowledge that you fucked up and move on with the rest of us.What did they do that you consider ‘fucking up’?
Decided that abstaining and allowing Trump to be elected was somehow going to help us get more left-leaning politicians?So, nothing then, because they didn’t do that; they explicitly said, right at the start, that they voted Harris.
You right! I think I was reading someone else’s comment.
Could this be any clearer?
I honestly don’t know anymore what to do with this blue MAGA bs. You can say that you ate Harris out while voting for her but you don’t agree with her pro genocide stance and because you said one critical word they’d still tell you that you made Trump happen somehow?
Hello! I realized I was looking at a different comment chain, which made me think that.
Now:
Basically, what I think needed to happen is a) Harris wins narrowly, and b) we take the energy that people are just now starting to cultivate under Trump (i.e. as he does everything he promised to do and more, for the benefit of seemingly no one but him) and protest because Harris wasn’t good enough. Americans cannot keep living in a world where every presidential election is life and death, because that guarantees fascism. The only good thing about what’s going on right now is that leopards’ faces are being eaten.
I did not want Harris because she wasn’t a good enough candidate. Plain as. She was the better of the two candidates we have, but that’s simply not good enough anymore. It hasn’t been for what, four of the last five election cycles? We need more than two viable candidates (end FPTP), a fragmenting of parties (suicide while FPTP is active), and/or people to wake the fuck up.
I will remind any Democratic supporters of Israel that Israel is in league with Trump. I will not allow them to forget it.
I am most decidedly anti-Israel but voted for Harris due to the dozens of other issues that were different between the 2 candidates.
You and I and millions, I’m sure. But not enough. Even now, as the things he promised he would do come to fruition, people are still just… numb to it.
Blinken tried to organize for other countries to allow Israel to ethnically cleanse Gaza and those countries to take in the Palestinians in Nov 2023. Then the other countries said “No”. The Trump plans of this year arent fundamentally different. They are the same plans as the Democrats under Biden had. Just that Trump is louder about it.
Other countries were waiting for the new administration, since that would signal what our stance was going to be for the next 4 years. It’s true that Trump doesn’t care about Gaza, but he certainly would like to raze it and build some hotels. At the same time, people stateside might like to protest, but more and more are afraid of being whisked away by plainclothes nobodies to El Salvador. It is possible to say that Harris would not have done a better job stopping the genocide and also that she was still the correct answer.
I’m neither a man nor a Christian tho.
Cool! People use that as an expression of exasperation.
Had the dems not known their voters were a bunch of closet supremacist cowards, they might have considered the electoral implications of bombing brown people .
But they could count on you didn’t they?
Sorry your favorite genocider lost. As a foreigner if I’m ever asked to chose between fascism here and genocide in America… well I hope you have a place to hide hihi
I voted for Harris, and voted for Biden before that, and Clinton before that. With shame as I should. Harm reduction, methadone instead of heroin.
It’s nothing to brag about. You guys try to make them sound like a good choice, when neoliberals are for the same status quo, only minus the scapegoating. They’re just a lesser degree of bad. They’re for mass homelessness, they’re for entire murder for profit economic sectors including American “Healthcare,” they’re for ever worsening income inequity, because on economic policy (that informs and often dictates social Ills) they’re on the same take as Republicans. Just because they don’t cheer and pour the blood they’re drenched in over their heads in celebration like Gatorade, doesn’t mean their hands are any cleaner.
That scapegoating makes Republicans worth voting against, but you’re praising Jack the Ripper in the face of Adolf Hitler. No American should feel anything but shame about only having a extreme right wing party and a fascist party as our only two options. No one should have left an American polling place with a smile or pride for the last half century, it’s been a rocketship to avarice diseased oblivion, that Trumpism is just a newer symptom of, not the cause.
Reagan toppled this empire, it just takes an empire a while to hit the ground. We have arrived at a while. Trump is more of a vulture come to feast on the corpse.
Eating popcorn. Where are the dems who will fight for their constituents now? Looks like they just nearly unanimously passed a law that will let the administration take down any web content the want, not just revenge porn or deepfakes like they claimed.
So thats the end of free speech. Trump said outright he’d use it to censor his oponents. eff.org/…/congress-passes-take-it-down-act-despit… Did the dems just not have time for ammendments?
So was all this trumpery worth it all so the DNC could continue to take AIPAC money?
Or the Laken Riley act passed with dem support.
rollcall.com/…/democrats-senate-laken-riley-act/ We’re deporting anyone now, with democratic party support. They are even trying to use it on citizens. Heck of a job, DNC.
Or when the dems voted to advance trumps budget-- about the only card they had in their hand right now, and they just didnt use it. newsweek.com/full-list-democrats-voted-trump-gop-…
And now you want to what, fingerwag like you have a leg to stand on here? I mean come on man. Show me proof beyond Booker sitting on the steps in theatrical protest that the dems are working some angle thats not just secret support of anything the republicans want?
I guess at least Schumer, who says his whole job is to keep the dems supporting Israel, sent a “very strong letter” to trump. So we have that going for us. yahoo.com/…/pathetic-critics-cringe-leading-dem-1…
Yay Schumer, way to go.
This is it. Why the fuck is the blame on the people who didn’t vote for a terrible candidate supporting a genocide and not the fucking people supporting the genocide?! Why did the dems all support that censorship bill, when they were initially speaking up about it? Why does it seem like the more exhausted he populace got with trump and his shit, he more democrats seemed to use that as an excuse to start supporting the republicans? Where is all the “stop trump” and “stop fascism” dems now? Why does it seem like they’re done grandstanding about standing up to trump and seem to have rolled over to keep their jobs or whatever it is? Why does this seem all okay, and why is the blame for all of that on people who couldn’t stomach supporting a candidate that was not standing up to a genocide and was parading around the fucking worst of the neocons? Why is it always on the people who didn’t sacrifice their values to once again stomach a candidate that goes against their basic human morals, and not on the politicians continually moving to the right? Why blame the people who see the rightward march of the Democratic Party as a death knell for the country, and not on the people who are fucking marching right as fast as the fascists continue to radicalize? Why the fuck can these assholes not see that we don’t give a shit that you think you’re morally superior to us because you “voted against fascism,” when the party you voted for seems to be actively ushering fascism in through the door?
Where is the fucking class solidarity? These people are selling you out, and you turn to your neighbor to say, “well, you should’ve just voted differently.” We are well beyond this being on us. This is on the people driving the ship, not the ones stuck in the cargo hold screaming that we’re fucking sinking.
Eating
popcornthe shit sandwich they helped create. Fixed that for you.Good to see “helped” instead of assigned blame. I’ll take it.
Here we go with the finger-wagging, you’ll never learn do you
You mean Schrodinger’s Leftists?
I hope your terrorist leaders harris, biden and trump all die lioe fucking pigs.
Do you think they have the self awareness to even reply to a thread like this?
not being pushed by russian and israeli propaganda through SOCIAL media perhaps.
Right here :)
I voted for Kamala tho
You’re a piece of shit and if there was any justice US leaders past and present would get the electric chair.
The cowards who were perfectly content with genocide when their team was in power now use the very same genocide as a comment about their domestic politics, proving if anybody needed it that Americans don’t really see foreigners as human.
It wil not stop war at all, because Bibi needs wartome mandate to stay out of jail
Fascists gonna fash.
Lebensraum
Man, you can hate Musk for many reasons but when he says that the Universe chooses the most ironic outcomes he is right.
What a terrible reply to get blocked over
So, the Nazi’s sent Jewish people to concentration camps, did horrible things to their children (especially twins), gassed their relatives, displaced them… But they are now doing the same thing to Palestinians? I really don’t have a side politically. I just don’t understand.
My guess is that they believe leaving the Hamas alive is equivalent to allowing their territory be attacked again in the future. They want this war to be The Last One™ so thay don’t have to further spend military resourses in the future doing the same thing again.
So, women and children, and hospitals, and first aid people are expendable. OK. This world is filled with evil, horrible people. And history will never be learned. Oh, and is Trump going to be turning the displaced area into a resort?
A yes, a final solution. Nazis love those, and most nazis were indeed zionists.
Hurt people hurt people.
Is that an argument for a defence attorney defending a murderer? So, the murderer was hurt, and they are justified? And better yet, let’s hurt children.
It isn’t a defense at all. You said you didn’t understand. Abused people (or peoples) becoming abusive in turn is a common process, and that phrase is commonly used in such a way that searching on it will reveal many studies of the process, and what has been tried (successfully and unsuccessfully) to short-circuit it.
Understanding is not absolution, though. You can both see how the genocide of Jews led to fears, politics, and colonial interventions that contributed to Israel’s genocide of Palestinians, and also condemn that genocide and those perpetrating it (which I absolutely do). But not understanding the motivations makes any problem easier to effectively resist or solve, as you can use that knowledge to determine where and how to apply pressure and create a lasting rather than a temporary change.
So is this an argument for Hamas or Israel.
No.
Zionism predates the holocaus and modern fascism.
you should really have a side by now.
I refuse to take anyone’s side that murders innocent people. Children should NEVER be victims of political wars. When politicians that make these decisions put their own children in the line of fire, then tell me “I should really take a side”.
So you should really have a side by now.
Focus in, this the action of a handful of powerful and violent people, not the act of a whole nation with a subjugated past.
The people enacting these atrocities are just as much monsters and the people who oppressed their ancestors.
Point taken. And, thank you for the reminder.
But the nation isn’t stopping him. He’s been voted in how many times. It isn’t like the people have no blame.
I’ve seen plenty of anti-government protests from Israelis that do not approve
Sure, the decisions are made, the policies enacted, by those at the top — but there is no widespread repudiation of their actions by the citizenry at large, either.
I’m Jewish and I don’t get it either, every Jew I see falling for this fascist rhetoric horrifies and disgusts me
OMG they’re just as horrible as the rest of humanity. Who would have thought.
Rest of humanity? Which other country successfully carried out a genocide recently?
I think y’all are reading too much into a knee-jerk comment from Auli… The point is that Jewish people, also being people, are unfortunately capable of just as much hate and devastation as any others.
This is about colonialism not religion
No they only did that to gypsies.
How can you see this genocide unfolding, ethnic cleansing at a minimum of you’re scared if using the G word, and still say “Well, I don’t really want to take a side here”
This kind of rhetoric enables these war crimes. You’ve outlined yourself what Israel is doing, and they’re going to continue because the western governments aren’t doing anything real about it.
The least we can do as individuals is call them out on their bullshit and remind others around us that the genocide they’re committing is entirely fucked up and unjustifiable.
Time to nuke Israel.
“We didn’t bomb these people out of their homes only to have them return.”
—Israel
Sounds familiar. No wonder the Americans love Israel, they’re basically carbon copies of eachother. What America did to the Native Americans, the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. Push 'em out, keep pushing until they get violent, use the violence as an excuse to keep pushing, rinse and repeat until they’re all dead.
I was thinking the other day, and this is a bit off topic but:
Can you imagine what the colonists and “America” would have done to the indigenous people if they had the same tools as the Nazis?
America, Hitler’s little poster child.
Not gonna lie. The analogy of native americans vs palestinians doesnt click for me. There were jews christians muslims living in relative peace before the plan of an israel was shoved down people throats in the region. This wasnt a new big island discovered by accident.
I would agree though that human life is equally important and displacing humans forcefully is always a terrible crime if this is what the analogy implies.
I’m referring more to the behaviour of the Israelis mirroring the behaviour of the colonists. Deliberately pushing out the natives, leading to the natives fighting back, leading to the colonists using overwhelming force in ‘self defence’, leading to more colonists pushing out the natives.
Take the settlements in the West Bank for example. The settlers show up, build their houses, kick out the local Palestinians and treat them like shit. The Palestinians retaliate, so the settlers call in the IDF to kill the Palestinians. The US colonists did the exact same thing, and even went to war with Britain (at least partially) because Britain demanded that they not push west of the Appalachians because it was (to the British), native territory. Granted Spain had also stolen a load of land to the west, effectively sandwiching the natives between two colonial powers, but Britain had just got out of the Seven Years War (instigated by the colonists) and wasn’t keen to get back into one.
Genocide will continue until morale improves.
Until some military rolls up on the border and demands at gunpoint that Israel stop starving, murdering and stealing from people they dont like, the Israelis will keep doing it. They want Syria, Lebanan, Jordan, and Egypt after they finish off the west bank and Gaza.