from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 11 Oct 2024 14:03
https://lemmy.world/post/20741438
Scientists have ‘definitively’ proved identity of remains – with navigator’s precise origins to be revealed
Scientists in Spain claim to have solved the two lingering mysteries that cling to Christopher Columbus more than five centuries after the explorer died: are the much-travelled remains buried in a magnificent tomb in Seville Cathedral really his? And was the navigator who changed the course of world history really from Genoa – as history has long claimed – or was he actually Basque, Catalan, Galician, Greek, Jewish or Portuguese?
The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second is … wait until Saturday.
The long-running and often competitive theorising has not been helped by his corpse’s posthumous voyages. Although Columbus died in the Spanish city of Valladolid in 1506, he wanted to be buried on the island of Hispaniola, which is today divided into Haiti and the Dominican Republic. His remains were taken there in 1542, moved to Cuba in 1795, and then brought to Seville in 1898 when Spain lost control of Cuba after the Spanish-American war.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/11/dna-study-christopher-columbus-remains-seville-cathedral
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Thanks. Now I know where to take a shit if I’m ever in Seville.
Visited this Cathedral when I was in Seville and was surprised to see it.
I then ruined the mood for the group by asking why one of the biggest Catholic churches in the world has one of the world’s most famous slavers buried there Lmao
Did they not have a ready answer for that? I would think they would get it regularly enough to have one. Maybe not.
It was a group of family and friends lol. I wouldn’t expect them to have a good answer for that
Oh sorry, I thought you meant you brought it up to a tour guide.
I’ve been to Seville myself … never wanted to go visit the tomb of a celebrated psychopath
But one of the great things I learned from the Spanish from a young university student at a government protest one day (the Spanish are always ready to protest) … their history is written in their national flag … two red bands between a yellow one … a river of gold between two rivers of blood.
i can’t help but wonder if there isn’t some more useful science that these scientists could be doing (i write, while reading garbage on the internet)
I don’t know, I think they did a great service to every indigenous person in both Americas by revealing the source of all of their centuries of pain and suffering.
Now they know where to install the urinal
Yeah, because if Columbus hadn’t discovered the Americas, no one would have, and the Natives would still be living free and unmolested to this day. Solid point.
Sure. And if Hitler didn’t exist, someone else would finish the job of killing off the Jews of Europe that had been going on for centuries. So Adolf Hitler absolved, am I right?
Straight to Godwin, huh? Not to mention it’s hardly a good comparison. Spain and Europe’s empire expansion philosophy as a whole would have led to the same result once the New World was discovered. If you disagree with that, then I don’t know how to talk to you about this topic. It’s obviously a totally different case than what Hitler did.
Edit: Just to clarify, I’m not saying Columbus wasn’t a terrible human being, just that even if he was a saint, the outcome for indigenous peoples on this continent would have been the same. If you want to focus your hatred on one man as the source of all the suffering and genocide here, I’d probably go with Cortez over Columbus, but it would still be misplaced hatred
Cool. Another person who doesn’t understand what Godwin’s law was:
Which is not what I was doing, I was explaining how you are absolving a monster because someone else would have done it eventually (ignoring the fact that his atrocities were so awful that the Spanish royals even told him to cut that shit out, literally bringing him back to Spain in chains).
Even Mike Godwin thinks you’ve missed the point:
nymag.com/…/godwins-law-mike-godwin-hitler-nazi-c…
I was literally putting something in historical context and literally talking about the actual Holocaust.
But the main thing is that Columbus was so bad that even people at the time said he was a monster:
www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/…/books.spain
I’m sure you’ll continue to try to do this silly “we can’t vilify Columbus for starting off centuries of genocide and oppression because someone else just as bad could have come along,” but hopefully everyone else will figure out that he was one of the greatest monsters in human history.
Wish i could give him smallpox.
As long as we’re wishing, I’m going with bigpox.
Smallpox.Allpox
Now I know where to take a piss if I'm ever in Spain.
A Hot Topic?
Nah, I'll be heading to Seville cathedral.
Urinators Assemble!
Intentionally?