In Japan, newly released archives reveal the scale of human experimentation between 1938 and 1945
(www.lemonde.fr)
from schizoidman@lemm.ee to world@lemmy.world on 29 May 2025 12:05
https://lemm.ee/post/65311828
from schizoidman@lemm.ee to world@lemmy.world on 29 May 2025 12:05
https://lemm.ee/post/65311828
the US struck a secret agreement with Ishii. In a memo to General Douglas MacArthur (1880 – 1964), commander of Allied forces in Japan, Washington recognized that although war crimes had been committed, the experiments led by Ishii and his colleagues were “almost incalculable and incredibly valuable to the United States.”
In exchange for the records of Unit 731’s experiments, the US granted Ishii and his assistants immunity. Ishii died, and his collaborators went on to have careers in prestigious universities and private laboratories.
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Deal with the devil…
The US government made several deals with some inhuman characters after the war. Yes, the science was (potentially) valuable, because there is no way that a moral human would perform the experiments, but granting immunity may have been too much. It’s past time that these people are recognized for what they are.
I don’t see how grant immunity, sign documents, transfer them to US - take all documentation and knowledge, higher court later declares the immunity invalid, execute them for war crimes was off the table. It would likely be legal. It would surely be less immoral than letting them free.
What, did the US generals not want to have a bad rep with future war criminals??
‘Gosh no we can’t do that - we made a pinky swear to some of the worst people who ever lived’.
Right? They figured that out a decade or so later.
I mean, that would work once or twice, but after that I don’t think remaining war criminals would agree to the deal, knowing their predecessors were executed.
Ishii Shiro is a prime example.
He was the head of Unit 731 and did things like live and unanesthetized vivisections on people, bioloogical weapons testing on children, etc… Which is among the milder things. The US made a deal for all his data, and he lived his last years in peace and anonymity as a free man. He actually worked for free as a local doctor for a period.
If you look up information about him in Japanese sources, most of it is apparently all about how was such a nice man who helped people, and basically that he did a little oopsie in the 40s.
That’s one of the worse parts, they didn’t really gain any of the knowledge they hoped for:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
From what I’ve gathered, the experiments of unit 731 were more like shengele, more focussed on cruelly than actual science
Not to mention there was often no method or recorded data, so even calling them “science” of any kind is doubious.
At least he repaid some of his debt to society.
Heck Project Paperclip is why the USA fell, brought over all the nazi scientists and used Witness Protection to dissapear them into the populace, growing a bu ch of nazi families.
The USA fell? In WWII?
Given how many Nazis are kicking around these days, I’m starting to think that might have been the case. The 3rd reich just played the long game.
I get making deals to acquire useful information, but immunity? The deals should have been life in prison instead of execution.
they didn’t really have the cards. usa doesn’t wanna give immunity? no experiment results. what are they gunna do? have another genocide just for science? it was literally the only chance for this information, and they had to give the worst humans that ever existed immunity to get it. it sure is a fucked situation and really makes you think. what god?
I guess it’s easy to say behind a keyboard, but still feels fucked up, was that really the lesser evil?
if we didn’t get that information, more people would have died. “justice” may have missed out, but justice doesn’t save any lives in this scenario. it’s a super fucked up situation, but i do believe getting that information was the best possible outcome. at least some good came from the suffering of the victims this way. it’s a hard pill to swallow, but nature is a bitch, we’re all only animals, and there is no god.
Can you cite a source for this ?
it is not direct lives, so there is no source. we learned information such as the exact temperature a human body dies when frozen, and things that advanced organ sciences and transplants. there’s simply no way to calculate the lives we’ve saved or improved from obtaining the information because it is so far reaching.
Don’t kid yourself. They gave him immunity because they didn’t care. It’s not like US never experimented on people. Or enslaved them. Or committed genocides. Or you know, dropped couple of atomic bombs on civilians just to see what will happen.
"- This guy says he has some info but want’s immunity.
I’m not kidding anyone, I’m specifically saying the information was valuable enough to give them what they wanted. that’s all
Was the information valuable enough to torture people in order to obtain it? Do you think value of this information justifies what the Japanese did to these people?
now you’re just going in outlandish directions. if you don’t have the nuance to distinguish between not letting lives go to waste and murder, then have a good day.
Oh, so you actually went straight for “not letting lives go to waste”. Nice.
For me using data obtained by murdering people is 100% morally wrong. It means that as long as you can distance yourself from the murdering itself you’re free to benefit from it. Which is a disgusting take.
And US not only used this data, they actually made an exchange for it. They didn’t just find it somewhere ans said “well, since we already have it…”. They made a deal with the murderers. Even more disgusting.
so everyone who is alive now BECAUSE of all that information doesn’t deserve their life because of your ethical standards? we can agree to disagree.
i am a carnivore. i eat flesh. i have zero disillusionment about what life and it’s atrocities actually are. enjoy your high horse, I won’t be responding to you anymore.
edit: did you know particle board was invented by the nazis? ever buy any build it yourself furniture? better throw it out. ever drink a fanta soda?
Where did you take this from? There’s zero logic here.
What I’m saying is that if I would find a paper describing cure for cancer but I knew the author brutally murdered thousands of people in order to create it I wouldn’t use it. I think using it would validate his methods and would be immoral.
Imagine someone would torture and murder your family in order to create covid vaccine. Would you still take it? Would you let the murder go free in exchange for his research?
Did they murder people to create it? If not what the fuck are you talking about?
The US was in possession of the data but likely wanted the scientists to provide context in the same way they wanted the experience of the nazi rocket scientists. But lifetime immunity and a cover up is a horrible way to deal with the problem.
I’m pretty ok with reneging on a deal with war criminals, although I do acknowledge that erodes trust in future dealmaking with the US government.
Weird way to end the article honestly
That article was appalling to read. But the history was pretty neat, im glad to see more japan ww2 stuff. Ive read alot about America making a deal with japan to take down germany. And i roughly kinda knew japan was doing there own Nuremberg esq warcrimes. But man, those poor people who were subjugated to that…
Honestly a pretty interesting and informative article. Thanks for sharing OP
Must’ve been a real shit deal since it ended up getting hit with two nukes.
Not to mention, Japan surrendered 3-4 months after Germany did.
They were doing that shit to Chinese and Koreans forever. If you like Japan don’t dig too much into why any particular shrine is any m in any particular place because chances are it’s built on some horrible shit. I know of several that were built on piles of random trophy body parts (noses tongues ears).
on second thought, let’s not go to Japan, tis a silly place
New? I’ve heard all this on the Chilluminati podcast.
The records were released May 15th
The USA always rewarded & protected the worst of humanity.