Is Trump 'Considering' Leaving NATO? Unverified, Unevidenced Claims Spread (www.newsweek.com)
from 52fighters@lemmy.sdf.org to world@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 21:36
https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/29733792

Now, with Russian talks on the way, unverified and sourceless rumors spread on social media that the president was planning to withdraw from NATO.

#world

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FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 21:38 next collapse

Newsweek speculating on what “unverified and sourceless rumors” might be about.

Quality journalism.

InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 21:41 next collapse

I mean Newsweek has been a tabloid for a while (if they were ever a reputable journal to begin with)

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 21:42 collapse

I know. This is real rock bottom stuff though.

InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 21:45 collapse

Fair enough.

tal@lemmy.today on 19 Feb 00:03 collapse

I mean, there are sources there. It’s just…not people who would have current, inside information. John Bolton hasn’t been in government since he was National Security Advisor under Trump in Trump’s first term and the two fell out. He’s been asserting that Trump doesn’t like NATO or alliances at all for some time, though, based on his interactions with Trump in Term 1.

kagis

Here’s him in 2022, back before he expected Trump to actually make it into a second term:

businessinsider.com/bolton-putin-waiting-for-trum…

Former National Security Advisor John Bolton says ‘Putin was waiting’ for Trump to withdraw the United States from NATO in his second term

“I thought he put his foot over it, but at least he didn’t withdraw then,” said Bolton, who wrote in his memoir about Trump’s consideration of withdrawing from NATO in 2018. “In a second Trump term, I think he may well have withdrawn from NATO. And I think Putin was waiting for that.”

Trump viewed NATO as a liability during his presidency, believing that European countries were not paying enough of their fair share of the burden of providing defense to the alliance. Bolton, a State Department official during the George W. Bush administration, was brought on to be Trump’s national security advisor in 2018 only to be ousted a year and a half later.

Bolton’s latest comments come just days after he told Newsmax that Trump “barely knew where Ukraine was,” pushing back on a host who said the former president had been “tough on Russia.”

Asked whether he was satisfied by how the Trump administration handled Ukraine, Bolton criticized his former boss.

“I think it went very badly,” said Bolton. "It was hard to have discussions on geostrategic issues when the president’s main interest was getting… Rudy Giuliani in to see [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky so they could go find Hillary Clinton’s computer server.

Bolton said on Friday that former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and former Defense Secretary Mark Esper were concerned by Trump’s behavior at the time. “All of us felt that we needed to bolster Ukraine’s security, and were appalled at what Trump was doing,” he said.

EDIT: It’d actually be interesting to see whether Trump can withdraw from NATO. Remarkably-enough, this is a part of American constitutional law that has never been legally-resolved: does the President, acting solo, have the ability to terminate a ratified treaty without action from Congress?

The question was raised with SCOTUS in Goldwater v. Carter, but that case was dismissed on a technicality, so we don’t really have a ruling on the matter.

Goldwater v. Carter, 444 U.S. 996 (1979), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court dismissed a lawsuit filed by Senator Barry Goldwater and other members of the United States Congress challenging the right of President Jimmy Carter to unilaterally nullify the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty, which the United States had signed with the Republic of China, so that relations could instead be established with the People’s Republic of China.

Goldwater and his co-filers claimed that the President required Senate approval to take such an action, under Article II, Section II of the U.S. Constitution, and that, by not doing so, President Carter had acted beyond the powers of his office. While dismissing the case the Court left open the question of the constitutionality of President Carter’s actions.

To enter into a treaty, like NATO, the Senate’s approval is required. So it does seem reasonable to me that going to the Senate should be required to exit a treaty. But…we haven’t actually established what the rule there is, even after nearly two-and-a-half centuries of being a country.

EDIT2: The UK recently had to fight out a similar question over Brexit in their Supreme Court: could the Prime Minister, without action from Parliament, withdraw from the European Union?

en.wikipedia.org/…/R_(Miller)_v_Secretary_of_Stat…

In that case, their Supreme Court ruled no, that the Prime Minister couldn’t singlehandedly leave the European Union, had to go back to Parliament.

EDIT3: I’d also add that I am dubious that Trump would leave NATO, even if Europe refuses to spend another cent on defense. I do think that he would potentially retaliate in other ways. I think that m

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 19 Feb 05:50 collapse

Congratulations on that essay, but none of that has anything to do with my point about the article.

wirebeads@lemmy.ca on 18 Feb 21:43 next collapse

Well, the current administration has already somewhat hinted at bringing more of their troops back home to the U.S.

I mean, America needs to protect itself from those vile despicable Canadians with their kind mannerisms, universal healthcare and federally legalized weed.

Just think of what would happen if Universal healthcare ended up in America. Shareholders would be pissed.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 21:46 collapse

Plus, you either protect Europe from Russia or you invade Greenland. Can’t be both.

over_clox@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 22:38 collapse

You don’t do either, you just buy Greenland, with Elmo’s money, obviously.

dan1101@lemm.ee on 18 Feb 21:44 next collapse

Of course he will leave NATO if allowed.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Feb 21:55 collapse

Allowed? Who’s going to stop him? Is it not clear at this point that he does not care about the law?

azimir@lemmy.ml on 18 Feb 21:53 next collapse

He started doing this in his first term. What has changed since then? He’s still Putin’s stooge so leaving NATO is on the docket to help undermine Europe so Russia can invade.

EmpireInDecay@lemmy.ml on 19 Feb 04:42 next collapse

NATO should have been dissolved decades ago.

gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works on 19 Feb 12:51 collapse

The caliber of journalism in general has fallen so far from “incisive” that we’re gonna have to start digging a hole to find it soon