Zelenskyy rejects Trump's proposal that Ukraine could swap territories with Russia
(www.nbcnews.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 09 Aug 10:59
https://lemmy.world/post/34183415
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 09 Aug 10:59
https://lemmy.world/post/34183415
“Ukrainians will not give their land to the occupier,” Zelenskyy said in a Telegram message early Saturday.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy defiantly declared Saturday that his countrymen “will not give their land to occupiers,” after Donald Trump suggested that a peace deal would include some “swapping” of territories with Russia.
“The answer to Ukraine’s territorial question is already in the constitution of Ukraine,” Zelenskyy said in a message on Telegram early Saturday. “No one will and no one can deviate from it. Ukrainians will not give their land to the occupier.”
His comments came after Trump announced on Truth Social that a long-awaited meeting with Vladimir Putin had been scheduled for next Friday in Alaska.
#world
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Weird how the articles say, "swap" when they really mean Ukraine will bé forced to give up land. That's not a swap.
What’s with the accent over the letter é in be?
Typed on a phone with French keyboard. "be" is not a French word, but "bé" is.
Only ever saw that one in scrabble though…
Go to Saint-Malo, you’ll find two of them :)
I’ll need more guidance… I was there last year and « bé » doesn’t ring any bell.
Search Saint-Malo petit bé and grand bé, you’ll find easily. I’m pretty sure you saw them without noticing :)
Yeah I found the rocks and islands… still not very common though slightly more than the sound whatever animal is doing which spells « bé »
Cool. Today I learned.
You mean léarned
What about swapping Crimeia for everything upto and including Moscow?
Just like the recent US-brokered “peace deal” between Armenia and Azerbaijan, where Armenia gave up everything and the violent dictator Aliev pinky promised not to attack them again…
Swap? Russia is not giving up anything. Russia would be swapping useless Ukrainian land for important land they dont control. Thats a stupid deal and another stupid deal in trumps stupid belt.
The kind that Trump does best.
So, which part of USA territory is Trump willing to give up? Well, if the answer is none, that much of land is Ukraine willing to give up.
I’m sure he would happily give up Alaska to his Russian buddies
That’s why they meet there!
I volunteer Texas and Florida!
Texas would beat Russia in a war.
Texas can’t even handle a Texan winter.
That’s only because you can’t shoot the cold.
Not with that attitude you cant.
I bet it is able to be nuked though
Look realistically they will eventually need to give up land. They should take nothing less than NATO membership.
Never! ✊ Ukraine is Ukraine!
Why the fuck would they need to give up THEIR fucking land?
Because they don’t seem able to retake it? Might makes right, unfortunately.
Russia isn’t winning either.
Then why do they have Ukrainian land?
Then why isn’t the war over if they won?
I am not saying they have won completely and without any losses. But they clearly have gained land and Ukraine has not. It hurts people’s feelings but Russia is winning and it is not changing. Ukraine needs to stop the war, even if they are not the ones who started it.
Russia could just leave. That would stop the war since they started it.
Why would they just leave? It doesn’t make sense if they are gaining ground.
Yes, giving aggressors a reward for their behavior is a historically tried and tested strategy and will make the world a more peaceful place. /s
What? You replied to a wrong comment or I am spaced out.
You’re spaced out.
Sometimes amputation saves a life
It’s a war of attrition at this point, with Ukraine providing almost all the people to become casualties but highly dependent on foreign aid for weapons, ammunition, intelligence, and continued sanctions enforcement on Russia. If either the foreign support or the domestic supply of soldiers falls short before the Russian economy collapses, Russia gets to keep the occupied land. If the first break is the ruble tanks to the point desperate poor foreigners stop signing up en masse to be cannon fodder in the Russian army, Ukraine could realistically take back the territory they lost.
russia is still being propped up by china and india, china has a vested interested in russia remaining the way it is, its a buffer against the west, as is NK is against the rest of asia.
I think a swap is a great idea. Zelenskyy should ask for St Petersburg and Konigsberg for Donbas and Luhansk.
Taganrog, Kuban, Green and Yellow Klyns, Kursk…
If we start to enumerate, Russia has a lot of territories they’ve ethnically cleansed to call them „historically Russian territories”.
Karelia, Siberia… The list goes on.
Trump talked about swapping territories, but he never said Ukraine. He’s talking about America. He’s going to give Alaska to Russia, and Russia is going to give us Canada, and maybe Greenland.
Trump will look at the fact that Canada is much bigger than Alaska, so he wins. It won’t occur to him that Canada isn’t Russia’s to give away, nor does Alaska belong to Trump to give away.
Trump will make announcement like he’s the greatest deal maker in history, American citizens will be outraged, and Putin will just laugh and laugh…
If this even partially becomes truth, I think you needed a permanent flair of “Nostradamus”
I really love that the appropriate response to it is “Oh, God. Please make it not happen” instead of laughing at the ridiculous idea.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Therefore, I expect to see it happen now. Fuck this timeline…
Exactly. I’m not disputing how stupid it is, only that with HitlerPig, an outcome as ludicrous as this is actually possible.
Given how many USians repeated their trump’s rhetoric about Canada becoming the 51st state, I don’t think most of his flock would object.
I just hope they ceasefire and agree on a truce even if for temporary
this could easily be solved.
Russia go home. Leave Ukraine.
edit: gonna call this shit out. right now.
if you disagree with the above sentiment please tell us why.
@npdean@lemmy.today
Now we are spying who has downvoted? Cool.
I downvoted because the situation isn’t that simple anymore. This was applicable when it was just a “special operation”. Everyone involved needs to save face when this shit ends, that includes Russia, Ukraine and NATO.
when it comes to calling out people who disagree that Russia should fuck off, I’ll call out Nazi supporting scum all day.
Russia does not need to save face because they are the ones that invaded illegally. to the world their face is rotting and half gone leaving a bleached white skull. you know, like the ones on the SS uniforms.
Now Russians are Nazis lol. USA has invaded more countries than any other modern country but Russia gets called a Nazi and not them.
How does Russia not need to save face? They have to prove to their public and allies thaf the war was worth it and they gained something. Same thing with Ukraine that defending and fighting for so long was not just to end up giving land. NATO needs to maintain the illusion of having the greatest military to ever exist.
sounds like some pretty Nazi shit to me dude. at the very least it’s the same shit terrorists do.
US has nothing to do with what Russia is doing to Ukraine, you bringing it up is a feeble attempt at distraction away from the crimes Russia is committing.
Let me paint a picture for you.
You’re walking down the street with your family and a drunk Russian pulls out a gun in front of you and threatens you to give up your stuff. your mother and father take too long to respond and are both shot in the face. the Russian then calls over a couple of his friends who come over and take turns raping your mother’s bloody corpse in front of you for several days. when they’re finished, they shoot you in the stomach and take your shit then leave you for dead but not before you stab one of them in the balls.
several days later the Russians are apprehended and taken to court. the judge charges them with rape, desecration of a corpse, unlawful use of a handgun, theft, and unlawful detainment. they will spend the next 10 years in prison.
the judge then charges you with attempted murder for stabbing the one guy in the balls. your property is never returned, the deaths of your parents are never justified, and you will spend then rest of your life in prison.
when your lawyer asks about the double homicide charges, the judge says that he dropped them because everyone in this case was guilty and he’s allowing the criminals to “save face”. after all, they’re already being charged with five other crimes.
is this your idea of justice?
never mind, your opinion is absolutely trash and I really couldn’t give less of a shit.
Yeah, all these bombed hospitals and kindergartens must be worth stealing some land.
Sound logic here.
I am not saying it is worth it. I am saying they have to make it seem worth it.
Do they now?
Thug came to your house, punched you in your face and raped your wife. You definitely should give him one room so it seems for him it was worth punching and raping.
You are not understanding what I am saying. I am saying that Putin needs to explain to his country why the war is stopped and what was the benefit of it. Zelensky needs to show the same thing.
I am not talking about what they do about territories.
🤣 Of course he does sweetie, just like he did why he attacked Ukraine.
Npdean is not saying this is what SHOULD happen, they are staying that’s Putin’s perspective.
It’s not an endorsement of Russia. It’s just an opinion on what Putin will or will not accept in any deal put before him
(At least that’s how I’m reading this exchange)
Npdean, do you personally agree that Russia SHOULD fuck off back home immediately. That Ukraine not be made to give up a single bloody thing at all. And that this entire war is entirely Russia’s fault and they bear all responsibility for this happening?
I’m asking because I’m assuming you would agree, but I obviously can’t know that without you saying it
No, just read the guy commenting history, there is more.
Quite a few Russian new accounts have been set up recently.
If you don’t want people to know your opinions, it’s most likely because those opinions are stupid. Think on that.
I want people to know my opinion, that’s why I replied and commented. What sort of fancy sounding but stupid reply is this?
if you want people to know your opinions then why are you arguing that it’s wrong to see who upvoted or downvoted comments?
stand by your convictions and you have nothing to fear. I mean, unless your convictions include supporting Nazi propaganda and hate speech.
if that’s the case I’d say you’re a big piece of shit. but that can’t be true, right?
I stand by what I said. You made the jump to Russians being Nazis and assuming that I am supporting everything Russia does.
You’re right. the Russians in Ukraine aren’t Nazis.
Nazis were well organized and disciplined. they had clear achievable goals. they took control or occupied over 20 countries in three years.
Russia can’t even hold control of a territory in a single country, even after the deaths of over one million soldiers over three years.
When you compare Russian military with Nazis it just makes it glaringly obvious how weak the Russian military complex is.
However, when you compare the crimes Russian soldiers have perpetrated against Ukrainians it’s pretty clear that Russian soldiers are following Nazi ideals.
Up and down votes are public record on lemmy.
I didn’t know this. That is shitty design. It is nowhere explicitly stated on any app or the website.
your pms are also exposed to instance admins. that and your up/down-voting being public is indeed a shitty design which they keep saying they “will fix soon.” at least they’re open about it
This should be stated up front during log in, or somewhere prominent.
No one needs to save face. Just stop fucking killing families. That’s it.
Politics is all about saving face. The war will be over but they still would want a political career after that.
Because Russia also has demands which are not all reasonable, but their most vocal one has been their constant rejection of Nato expansion along their borders at every enlagement it happened in the past 20 years, and the argument became: Is Nato expansions along Russia a legitiment threat? Well, it’s not that clear-cut and you have to see it from their prespective. They see their previous enemy of US capitilism and its Nato allies, whom they lost to after the communist soviet union fell, expand right on their borders one country after another. Russia has escilated their response of rejection since 2000 every time Nato planned and expanded near them.
Whoever side you see is right, there is a rational peacful point in between where people lives and economies can improve with better human rights and minimum bloodshed. I’m not irrational to ask for less people dying in meat-grinding forced transcripts and civilians and economies suffering on both sides, while their politicians finish their dick-measuring contest.
did NATO install military along the border with Russia? Did NATO posture for an attack against Russia? Did NATO threaten Russian sovereignty? Did NATO take control of sovereign land away from Russia?
no, NATO didn’t do that. Russia did do all that though.
So the question becomes, if Russia is so great and powerful why does it need to posture so much against an alliance of countries that haven’t directly threatened it? Further, if Russia is to powerful why is it afraid of NATO? Lastly, if NATO was so evil why has Russia sent over one million soldiers to die in Ukraine?
The answer to all your first question was no. Then later you ask if Nato’s threat was done indirectly? economically and politically, yes. Then you answer the real question imo yourself, why are you cheering 1million+ of poor & forced conscripts dying for a dictator whose kids are not on the front line and got enough money to spend $10 billions a month until he dies? Russian oligarchs are still eating good, and the rich ones are partying it up in Dubai, Bali and Phuket by the hundrends of thousands. Why not reach a truce after 3.5+ yrs of human meat-grinding warcrimes, and ecnomic draining for all countries and allies involved on both sides? A temporary truce will help clear what everyone wants after 3.5+ years of bloodshed, economic suffering, and irreversible environmental damage where the number one victims are the poors who can’t afford to relocate?
I see the child rapist is having his delusions again making up stories.
What a shit and stupid take. We’re done with wars. They don’t solve anything and just feed the ego’s of weak men. Give us peace. STOP trying to control everything and just make peoples lives BETTER. Fuck corpos, fuck the MIC, fuck profit.
I think they’re being brutally sarcastic, but if not - yes.
Then woosh if true. I totally fell for it.
Absolutely not. This is to a large degree why we’re in so many messes to begin with. 😄
Wait, isn’t there an arrest warrant for Putin? The US would ignore it to talk to him in Alaska?
US is not a signatory to the ICC
Ah, yeah.
Even if the US is not a signatory to the international criminal court, they will guard human rights! Especially when it comes to Putin Trump will give his best to lead him to justice without ICC compromize.
I hope this is sarcasm, if you believe this I have a Taj Mahal I want to sell to you.
Art of the deal!!!
Trust in Trump, Jesus will guide him to the American golden age of human rights.
It is very big, white like the White House, but better. It is made from white marble. Looks great on the bank of the river. All for the cheap price of 50000 USD. If you would like we can ship it to you, shipping included. But you have to take care of the tariff. Whatever it might be when it reaches your shore. /s
On serious note do you think everyone deserve human rights. Or are you a White Christian Nationalist and are of the opinion only whites deserve it. Once all the brown people are deported, blacks are made slaves again will you reach the
Because that is what you Baby Emperor with no clothes is doing.
i’d wager that one’s having fun
In fact, the US actively opposes the ICC and has made Microsoft block the chief prosecutor’s email
and this thread is why i visit lemmy
www.hrw.org/…/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
Russia gets everything east of Moscow, Ukraine gets everything west. We can build a wall down the middle of Moscow to show it.
That’s why it’s called the Art of the Deal baby
(⌐■_■)
So trump thinks it’s about land mass, and not the people living there. Gotya.
Trump doesn’t understand the concept of “people” beyond mechanical tools that do what he says.
He must think this whole conflict is over real estate and golf courses.
Not a lot of people living in these territories remaining, on account of the continuous warfare. Hundreds of thousands not in active military have been refugees for years now.
Furthering complicating things are the number of residents who were killed in the conflict. They don’t get their land back under any conditions.
I see a lot of “If I was in Ukraine, I’d go down fighting” shitposts on the sub. But all the Reddit Commandos who thought they’d win one for the gipper went out in airstrikes back in early 2023.
The only westerners still engaged with this war are treating it like a sportsball game in extra innings. They don’t care about the death toll. All they care about is the territory.
It’s the same brain rot that’s got Israelis obsessed with punishing Gaza for October 7th, except the Ukrainians aren’t “winning”.
There’s lots of people living in occupied areas that the Russians took in the first few days. The regions that have been fought over for the past 3 years … yes you’re right… No much remains there.
zelenskyy is my main double y guy
This whole USA diplomacy is fucking whack. Lots of confusion on what, why, where.
First, after Witkoff dialog in russia, Trump told European partners that there would be exchange Kherson/Zaporizhzhya (russia moves out) to Donetsk/Luhansk (Ukraine moves out).
Then next day Witkoff says russia is not planning to retreat from anywhere.
Next day, EU leaders demanded a call with Witkoff, where he confirmed the deal is “Ukraine moves out of Donetsk in exchange to ceasefire”.
Fucking clowns.
This just in! Texas has a new law! The “stand your ground, or we could just trade spots law”!
Here’s how it works:
If a bad actor(Like Jim Carry) gets into your home, what are you going to do? Exactly! Grab the broom, and start discussing how you could clean up after the guy and still live in your garage. This new law makes all that legal and more!
How dare you sully Jim’s good name
LOL, the price is wrong! LOL.
The Adam Sandler line?
LOL yet again. Both are good I was just poking fun.
I wish people understood better the monster that is Trump
“He invented the Art of the Deal”
The Art of the Deal was ghostwritten and Trump had little to no say in it outside of “Make me look good”
“But he’s still good at making deals, that’s why he’s so successful.”
His secret to success was a refusal to pay his workers and contractors, knowing it’d be more expensive to sue him for stolen wages than it would be to just work pro-bono.
"But he’s a businessman!"
He played one on TV for the show “The Apprentice”, but in reality most Trump ventures have a track-record of going bankrupt. Running for President is the one thing that’s gone well for him, this is because we live in a fucking clown show and God is dead. God perished in a tragic fire that claimed the lives of Santa Claus, The heavily bosomed maiden who invented pizza, and any reason I have to think it will ever be okay again.
In short, Trump isn’t good at making deals. His only move is to tell people to eat shit and like it, and exploit legal loopholes, corrupt lawyers, and a system that favors the rich above all else to make it happen.
In a just world, Trump would be a cautionary riches to rags story.
“To shreds , you say?”
I love this last take. Really, that would be it. Were we in a movie
As he should.
Fuck trump. Fuck Russia. Slava ukraini
Europe did a deal with Trump hoping he will continue to support war in Ukraine. I am sure they are feeling vindicated now.
There’s a caveat though: the president of the European Commission did a deal with Trump, but her position doesn’t give her that power. There are two outcomes of this: European politicians says “so what?”, or they pretend they don’t like the deal to look good but accept it nonetheless as if they didn’t have a say in it.
That’s her art of the deal knowing nothing she says is binding but it strokes the baby emperor’s ego.
If I was home invaded and a cop showed up right at that moment and the solution was…“I’ll let the home invader leave your house, but only if you give him your television.”. I am Ukraine, the home invader is Russia and the cop is trump. What a debacle!
Of course that’s going to make things worse
Hey guys, go rob this guy. He clearly won’t do anything meaningful about it.
How do you know he doesn’t have a gun?
Yeah, in this scenario, you’d be lucky if the cop doesn’t arrive 3 hours late and shoots you.
Incidentally, that’s the US policy for the Middle East
Wait I thought there was going to be peace right after he got elected…
Give him 2 weeks promise !
It’s like your new boss saying you never have to worry about your job again. Right before he fires you.