WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
on 15 Apr 10:45
nextcollapse
From now on you must view all of their words and actions through the lens of a fascist dictatorship. This is almost certainly propaganda intended to increase fear of Chinese supremacy and using that fear as an excuse to invade Panama.
I hard doubt the US doesn’t have classified hypersonic missile tech, and even if they don’t, this admin won’t stop maintaining, building, or deploying these “vulnerable” billion dollar aircraft carriers. Everything conservatives and DOGE cut is everything that benefits the working class, and increases their quality of life and economic mobility. They never cut anything that enables their authoritarian capabilities.
Don’t forget how they were able to slap a basically poor-only tax with their tariff bullshit.
suburban_hillbilly@lemmy.ml
on 15 Apr 11:23
nextcollapse
Propaganda can be true sometimes. That the cutting edge of missile tech has been well ahead of the cutting edge of missile defense has been an open secret for at least a decade. It might not be as fast as twenty minutes, but the truth is there is nothing that anybody can do about the most advanced missiles being made today apart from hoping that they miss. The problem with carriers is that they are big, slow targets. Every carrier has this problem, not just the US fleet.
taladar@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Apr 12:14
nextcollapse
Weren’t there some wargames a few decades ago where some group playing the “terrorists” sank a US carrier with nothing but a few speedboats and some RPGs or something similar? I am thinking of the one where they “rolled back” the wargame. It has been quite a while since I read that so I don’t remember all the details.
RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
on 15 Apr 12:20
nextcollapse
I remember reading that as well, but I recall CWIS wasn’t turned on for some reason.
Wasn’t turned on because the fleet was forced to stay too close to shore and commercial shipping lanes by the exercise.
Buelldozer@lemmy.today
on 15 Apr 14:10
nextcollapse
Millennium Challenge 2002. That was a boondoggle. Yes the opposing force won and they had to reset the game but the OPFOR was up to some ridiculous shenanigans. For instance instead of using radios, which could be intercepted and tracked, they used motorcycles to convey messages…motorcycles that could travel at the speed of light.
Another piece of silliness is that there were commercial vessels (non-combatants) on the virtual water but OPFOR sometimes used them in ways that were impossible. As an example radar would return a 12 foot fishing boat and then that boat would launch four 20 foot long anti-ship missiles.
Then there’s whole idea of a CBG just hanging around shore for days on end staying inside a pre-determined box so that OPFOR always knew their location, something that almost certainly not happen in an IRL conflict.
The Commander of the Opposing Force was extremely clever but they needed a long list of nearly impossible to achieve advantages to make it work.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 15 Apr 14:13
nextcollapse
there is nothing that anybody can do about the most advanced missiles being made today apart from hoping that they miss
You can help them miss. If they’re using GPS navigation, jamming works. It then reverts to inertial navigation though, so the longer you jam - the bigger the error.
Or you could try shooting it down, I doubt they can even dodge a head-on intercept without losing a load of energy.
edit: btw the problem you’re describing is why cbg is a thing
Buelldozer@lemmy.today
on 15 Apr 13:51
nextcollapse
I hard doubt the US doesn’t have classified hypersonic missile tech…
This is absolutely true. Carriers are very vulnerable to advanced anti-ship missiles. But people with staunch political views have alternative truths they prefer to see propagated, so you've been punished.
Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world
on 15 Apr 10:45
nextcollapse
That would be shocking if true. The US takes its naval defences very seriously
against hypersonic missile (speed mach 5 to mach 25), good luck to spot it and try to destroy it before it reaches you
gnutrino@programming.dev
on 15 Apr 12:37
nextcollapse
Most claimed “hypersonic” missiles can’t actually manoeuvre at those speeds so you can spot them at distance and work out where you need to send an interceptor missile. We saw this with Patriot batteries vs Kinzhal in Ukraine.
derGottesknecht@feddit.org
on 15 Apr 15:02
collapse
Should be pretty easy to spot, those nose cones will be glowing in the atmosphere like rudolfs nose
Point is, they’re big, impossible to hide from anyone that has satellites, and you just need to get a lucky hit with a relatively cheap missile/torpedo to give the other side a multi-billion dollar loss in one go.
Diesel subs are also different kinds of beasts. They’re terrible for international conflict, but for short range operations, they’re silent. You can turn off a diesel engine, but not a nuclear reactor.
The problem with USVs is they’re relatively slow, if a ship is aware of their presence and is in a fighting state - it can get rid of a bunch of them. And it seems that navy helicopters are a decent counter, but overall it’s too early to tell if USVs are that good or was it the element of surprise.
Russia can wipe out US in 15mins using all their nukes in a suicide attack. worry about Russia first. Defeat russia in Ukraine first, russia is much weaker than china in GDP, show that you can kick russia out of Ukraine first.
admin@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Apr 14:37
nextcollapse
“Russian army underwhelmingly unprepared and weak according to Chinese POW” lol
You are right, Ukraine would have gotten back their territories if russia were unprepared and weak. This POW will pay for insulting Ukraine army as being weaker than russia weak useless army.
We need to stop all this complacency, underestimation about Russia army. Never underestimate your enemy, no mater how weak they are.
I notice some pro-russian people are spreading russia propaganda about russia being weakling victim, can’t invade over 3 years, using bicycles (Japan used bicycles to invade SEA, don’t underestimate bicycles), motorbikes, WW2 gear, unprepared and will never invade or able to do any harm, they do this to reduce guard among the population. So people will look away.
BoulevardBlvd@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 15 Apr 16:05
nextcollapse
I mean… Russia would own Ukraine by year three of this war and wouldn’t be using WW2 munitions if they were prepared and strong. There’s something to be said about the Russian military preparedness
Him not being able to name a single ASEAN country should have instantly destroyed his career. It’s literally in the name so it just means he doesn’t even know what it is and then that absolute moron continued to name all other neighboring countries that are not part of ASEAN lmao.
America will never recover from this. It secured its image as a disgruntled band of intellectual retards for the next several decades at least.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world
on 15 Apr 14:53
nextcollapse
To be fair, he was completely hammered when he said that and doesn’t remember it at all.
“We need to enslave and control the population to survive against a perceived or projected foreign enemy.” Translation from Trump cabinet language to English.
ramenshaman@lemmy.world
on 15 Apr 15:47
nextcollapse
Someone should tell interestingengineering.com who Pete Hegseth is because obviously they haven’t been paying attention for the last few months.
China watching the Houthis fail to hit a single ship with a 30 missile salvo:
Even with supersonic anti ship missiles, successfully attacking the US navy is notoriously difficult, to the point that they’ve actually averted invading Taiwan unless some golden opportunity falls into their lap.
collapse_already@lemmy.ml
on 15 Apr 16:09
nextcollapse
Well, since it is basic military doctrine that you should never field a unit that you can’t afford to lose, and the billions in $ losses and thousands of sailor lives means we can’t afford to lose a carrier, this suggests that carriers are now obsolete and should be retired.
Exactly - they can’t use Russia’s military strength as the boogie-man any longer.
IhaveCrabs111@lemmy.world
on 16 Apr 06:24
collapse
It’s fine. They’ll just find more fraud waste and abuse
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
on 15 Apr 18:49
nextcollapse
Hypersonic missiles could destroy every major city in the US in 20 minutes. Just have to put a nuclear warhead in them. The US is deploying hypersonic missiles too. This doesn’t change anything except that in the case of Armageddon we will have half as much time to find someone to bang before we die.
Teknikal@eviltoast.org
on 15 Apr 20:12
nextcollapse
I think the Chinese Mach 10 Yj-21 hypersonic missile should send pretty much any carrier group to hell if they have 2 or 3 of the type 055 destroyers launching them at once.
Given any carrier battles probably happening in the Tawain strait I’d expect the land based and fighter based missiles would be launched as well so yeah I give the US really no chance of winning that one as things stand.
I think the US badly needs the same type of missile but they seem to be only getting failures, I read earlier in the week they’d cancelled another (Halo).
Don’t get me wrong I’m sure the US could launch enough of their own LRASMs (stealth anti ship missile) to do some damage back but they’d likely not survive to see the result or get that many planes airborne to launch them.
Btw isnt this also true vice versa? With the way technology is today(even disregarding nuclear) you could completely destroy your oponents navy if you have hypersonic missiles which, if i understand correctly, a lot of countries have considering how effective they are
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
on 15 Apr 21:20
collapse
Not sure what they can do. I seen to remember Russia shooting 6 of these at Ukraine in 2023 and then being shot down. I assume they must be different?
threaded - newest
Why would they bother when Trump is going to sink the whole country?
Never interrupt the enemy when he is making a mistake.
and that is putins plan essentially, needs USA out of the way so russia can reclaim former soviet states.
How the hell would this guy know? He’s not qualified to run a game of RISK much less comment on anything that really involves defense
What do you mean? This is the secretary of defence, a highly qualified post that…
…oh, oh no. Wow, you guys have problems.
I can’t even keep track of which positions have the dumbest trump appointments. They’re pretty much everywhere at this point.
Can we do a competition? I thought Tulsi would’ve been hard to beat, but Walz came from behind in the signal chat incident.
But, you see, he looks like a secretary of defense, so therefore he must be an excellent one!
He looks like his mom dresses him.
Lol press x to doubt
I think the correct question here is:
“Why? They couldn’t before you were in charge.”
Biden didn’t leave the keys to the anti sink plugs I guess.
Thanks Obama
From now on you must view all of their words and actions through the lens of a fascist dictatorship. This is almost certainly propaganda intended to increase fear of Chinese supremacy and using that fear as an excuse to invade Panama.
I hard doubt the US doesn’t have classified hypersonic missile tech, and even if they don’t, this admin won’t stop maintaining, building, or deploying these “vulnerable” billion dollar aircraft carriers. Everything conservatives and DOGE cut is everything that benefits the working class, and increases their quality of life and economic mobility. They never cut anything that enables their authoritarian capabilities.
Don’t forget how they were able to slap a basically poor-only tax with their tariff bullshit.
Propaganda can be true sometimes. That the cutting edge of missile tech has been well ahead of the cutting edge of missile defense has been an open secret for at least a decade. It might not be as fast as twenty minutes, but the truth is there is nothing that anybody can do about the most advanced missiles being made today apart from hoping that they miss. The problem with carriers is that they are big, slow targets. Every carrier has this problem, not just the US fleet.
Weren’t there some wargames a few decades ago where some group playing the “terrorists” sank a US carrier with nothing but a few speedboats and some RPGs or something similar? I am thinking of the one where they “rolled back” the wargame. It has been quite a while since I read that so I don’t remember all the details.
I remember reading that as well, but I recall CWIS wasn’t turned on for some reason.
Wasn’t turned on because the fleet was forced to stay too close to shore and commercial shipping lanes by the exercise.
Millennium Challenge 2002. That was a boondoggle. Yes the opposing force won and they had to reset the game but the OPFOR was up to some ridiculous shenanigans. For instance instead of using radios, which could be intercepted and tracked, they used motorcycles to convey messages…motorcycles that could travel at the speed of light.
Another piece of silliness is that there were commercial vessels (non-combatants) on the virtual water but OPFOR sometimes used them in ways that were impossible. As an example radar would return a 12 foot fishing boat and then that boat would launch four 20 foot long anti-ship missiles.
Then there’s whole idea of a CBG just hanging around shore for days on end staying inside a pre-determined box so that OPFOR always knew their location, something that almost certainly not happen in an IRL conflict.
The Commander of the Opposing Force was extremely clever but they needed a long list of nearly impossible to achieve advantages to make it work.
You are thinking of this:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002
Ripper declared his speedboats were armed with anti ship missiles. Which were bigger than the speedboats.
You can help them miss. If they’re using GPS navigation, jamming works. It then reverts to inertial navigation though, so the longer you jam - the bigger the error.
Or you could try shooting it down, I doubt they can even dodge a head-on intercept without losing a load of energy.
edit: btw the problem you’re describing is why cbg is a thing
The HACM (Hypersonic Attack Cruise Missile) is already out there.
I mean, carriers in this modern age probably are mostly sitting ducks against any modern adversary. They could barely take on Yemen.
If your adversary has satellites that can tell them where you are and a sufficient amount of missiles / torpedoes, there’s only so much you can do.
This is absolutely true. Carriers are very vulnerable to advanced anti-ship missiles. But people with staunch political views have alternative truths they prefer to see propagated, so you've been punished.
That would be shocking if true. The US takes its naval defences very seriously
against hypersonic missile (speed mach 5 to mach 25), good luck to spot it and try to destroy it before it reaches you
Most claimed “hypersonic” missiles can’t actually manoeuvre at those speeds so you can spot them at distance and work out where you need to send an interceptor missile. We saw this with Patriot batteries vs Kinzhal in Ukraine.
Should be pretty easy to spot, those nose cones will be glowing in the atmosphere like rudolfs nose
During some war games a few years ago, the Dutch Navy managed to score a hit against a US Navy carrier using a diesel sub.
Like someone else said here, carriers are big, slow targets, it’s not impossible for something to sneak past and sink them.
Not in anyway an expert on matters naval, but diesel subs are pretty quiet running on electric motors. Nuclear reactors make more noise.
Feel free to correct me.
Point is, they’re big, impossible to hide from anyone that has satellites, and you just need to get a lucky hit with a relatively cheap missile/torpedo to give the other side a multi-billion dollar loss in one go.
Diesel subs are also different kinds of beasts. They’re terrible for international conflict, but for short range operations, they’re silent. You can turn off a diesel engine, but not a nuclear reactor.
Has anyone tried making a reactor that can be turned off? Seems like an easy upgrade to make them silent in the short term.
I’d imagine it’s not doable because of how quickly they’d develop insane amounts of heat.
It was impressive but it happened in 1999. The Dutch Captain said that he doubted he could do it again and indeed a different Dutch Submarine failed at it the next year.
Carriers are considerable faster (30 Knots) than Diesel Subs (20 Knots) too, something the Dutch Captain touches on in that article.
Well in my mind few years ago was 1999…
Seriously though I thought this only happened within the last 10 years, TIL.
Carriers are actually some of the fastest ships out there because of nuclear propulsion.
Hegseth himself is a bigger threat to the US than China will ever be.
This article’s been here for almost an hour, are the aircraft carriers still okay?
Press X to doubt.
I just imagine that almost all large military vehicles are sitting ducks to drones and such. Just look at Ukraine vs. Russia’s navy.
Not a great comparison when you consider Russia’s navy hasn’t improved much from the Cold War days. Their tech is old.
The problem with USVs is they’re relatively slow, if a ship is aware of their presence and is in a fighting state - it can get rid of a bunch of them. And it seems that navy helicopters are a decent counter, but overall it’s too early to tell if USVs are that good or was it the element of surprise.
I’ve heard bullshit before. This sounds exactly like that
This guy can’t even name a single country in ASEAN but is giving advice on china, a neighbour of ASEAN. channelnewsasia.com/…/trump-defence-secretary-pet…
Russia can wipe out US in 15mins using all their nukes in a suicide attack. worry about Russia first. Defeat russia in Ukraine first, russia is much weaker than china in GDP, show that you can kick russia out of Ukraine first.
“Russian army underwhelmingly unprepared and weak according to Chinese POW” lol
lemmy.world/post/28249156
You are right, Ukraine would have gotten back their territories if russia were unprepared and weak. This POW will pay for insulting Ukraine army as being weaker than russia weak useless army.
We need to stop all this complacency, underestimation about Russia army. Never underestimate your enemy, no mater how weak they are.
I notice some pro-russian people are spreading russia propaganda about russia being weakling victim, can’t invade over 3 years, using bicycles (Japan used bicycles to invade SEA, don’t underestimate bicycles), motorbikes, WW2 gear, unprepared and will never invade or able to do any harm, they do this to reduce guard among the population. So people will look away.
I mean… Russia would own Ukraine by year three of this war and wouldn’t be using WW2 munitions if they were prepared and strong. There’s something to be said about the Russian military preparedness
That Ukraine that has only been a nation for 12 years or so? Wow I wonder how well the 140 years of imperialism develops soldiers and war techniques.
Him not being able to name a single ASEAN country should have instantly destroyed his career. It’s literally in the name so it just means he doesn’t even know what it is and then that absolute moron continued to name all other neighboring countries that are not part of ASEAN lmao.
America will never recover from this. It secured its image as a disgruntled band of intellectual retards for the next several decades at least.
To be fair, he was completely hammered when he said that and doesn’t remember it at all.
China can kill us. We need more money for war. (Has the biggest and most expensive military in the world) SMH
“We need to enslave and control the population to survive against a perceived or projected foreign enemy.” Translation from Trump cabinet language to English.
Someone should tell interestingengineering.com who Pete Hegseth is because obviously they haven’t been paying attention for the last few months.
China watching the Houthis fail to hit a single ship with a 30 missile salvo:
Even with supersonic anti ship missiles, successfully attacking the US navy is notoriously difficult, to the point that they’ve actually averted invading Taiwan unless some golden opportunity falls into their lap.
Well, since it is basic military doctrine that you should never field a unit that you can’t afford to lose, and the billions in $ losses and thousands of sailor lives means we can’t afford to lose a carrier, this suggests that carriers are now obsolete and should be retired.
Nah its just that they need longer ranged hypersonic missiles themselves but have been failing, so yeah China has a huge lead now.
US just needs new missiles and new missile destroyers to join th carrier group.
Please do it.
Why does this feel like they want to throw even more money at the military industrial complex?
Exactly - they can’t use Russia’s military strength as the boogie-man any longer.
It’s fine. They’ll just find more fraud waste and abuse
Hypersonic missiles could destroy every major city in the US in 20 minutes. Just have to put a nuclear warhead in them. The US is deploying hypersonic missiles too. This doesn’t change anything except that in the case of Armageddon we will have half as much time to find someone to bang before we die.
I think the Chinese Mach 10 Yj-21 hypersonic missile should send pretty much any carrier group to hell if they have 2 or 3 of the type 055 destroyers launching them at once.
Given any carrier battles probably happening in the Tawain strait I’d expect the land based and fighter based missiles would be launched as well so yeah I give the US really no chance of winning that one as things stand.
I think the US badly needs the same type of missile but they seem to be only getting failures, I read earlier in the week they’d cancelled another (Halo).
Don’t get me wrong I’m sure the US could launch enough of their own LRASMs (stealth anti ship missile) to do some damage back but they’d likely not survive to see the result or get that many planes airborne to launch them.
Btw isnt this also true vice versa? With the way technology is today(even disregarding nuclear) you could completely destroy your oponents navy if you have hypersonic missiles which, if i understand correctly, a lot of countries have considering how effective they are
Not sure what they can do. I seen to remember Russia shooting 6 of these at Ukraine in 2023 and then being shot down. I assume they must be different?
Russia shot old school missiles at Ukraine and One ICMB, that hit put rest of EU on alert leading to an increased military budge