Israeli Minister of Education Suggests Lebanon Will Be “Annihilated” (truthout.org)
from Keeponstalin@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 21:14
https://lemmy.world/post/20035213

There was no hint of de-escalation as Israeli warplanes bombed a residential area of Beirut on Friday, killing at least 31 people, including multiple Hezbollah commanders, and wounding at least dozens of others. Lebanon’s Ministry of Health said that the dead include three women and seven children.

During a Saturday television interview, Israeli Minister of Education Yoav Kisch falsely proclaimed that “there is no difference between Hezbollah and Lebanon.”

“The way things are progressing at the moment, Lebanon will be annihilated,” he vowed. Pressed on the genocidal implications of the word “annihilated,” Kisch said, “Lebanon as we know it will not exist.”

#world

threaded - newest

[deleted] on 21 Sep 21:31 next collapse
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filister@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 22:25 next collapse

Who started this war is very debatable. Because historically speaking this is just the latest stage of violence in the region.

Saleh@feddit.org on 22 Sep 06:04 next collapse

That is not a good take on history. Would you say the same about WW1 and WW2? Because these could also be framed as “just the latest stage of violence in the region”

filister@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 06:25 collapse

In a way WWI fueled the dissatisfaction of regular Germans and led to the rise of the Nazi party. Without the treaty of Versailles, most likely WWII would have never happened. So yes, you always need to consider the context.

And yes, the normal reaction of human beings of their struggles caused by others is to create resistance movements, so in a way, if you remove those struggles, the terrorism and resistance movements will die down. Because there is not a single prosperous country with an active and strong terrorist organisation. And yes, people inherently are the same, everywhere in the world.

And our goal as humanity is to preserve the humane part.

Droechai@lemm.ee on 22 Sep 15:22 collapse

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_conflict

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_conflict

I would say France is a pretty prosperous country who just got out of the Basque conflict but are still fighting terrorist groups

catloaf@lemm.ee on 22 Sep 14:53 next collapse

If you want to get really technical, Britain started the war when it created Israel. Before that, I don’t think Irgun’s terrorism counted as a separatist movement.

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Sep 15:54 collapse

It’s no historical mystery. Zionists openly plotted and engineered the theft of palestine explicitly modeling colonialism. There was literally no war before then.

T00l_shed@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 22:53 next collapse

All that Israel will accomplish is a lifetime of angry people who want to cause harm to the state that did this to their families, terror attacks by hezbola and hamas will continue, get worse and all but ensure a right wing autocracy who say, and will somehow be believed to be the only ones who can keep israel safe™. Please give up your freedoms so that we can “protect you”.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 21 Sep 23:17 next collapse

So what will change?

T00l_shed@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 23:35 collapse

It’ll get worse.

boydster@sh.itjust.works on 22 Sep 00:05 next collapse

That, plus settlements that they’ll start setting up in Lebanon as soon as they have the opportunity. Border’s gotta expand…

T00l_shed@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 00:17 collapse

Yup, bibi knows about lebensraum, and wants to give it a go himself.

queermunist@lemmy.ml on 22 Sep 01:34 next collapse

That’s why Israel’s goal is to kill their families too

bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works on 22 Sep 11:59 collapse

Israel has had angry neighbors, who want to kill them since before the state even existed.

T00l_shed@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 12:56 next collapse

And vice versa, now israel is aided by the US, it no longer needs to commit acts of terrorism. Instead of building a taller wall, they should have built a longer table.

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Sep 15:52 collapse

Before israel existed, anti-semitism didn’t exist in the middle east apart from zionists collaborating with the nazis.

bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works on 22 Sep 17:29 next collapse

Look up Hebron massacre 1929 for starters.

Where was Jerusalem Mufti Al-Husseini during WW2?

Farhud in Iraq ring a bell?

Keeponstalin@lemmy.world on 23 Sep 18:30 next collapse

Here

1929

> Palestinian politics was driven not only by poverty but also by religion, particularly in Jerusalem. The religious nature of al-Husayni’s own leadership as the highest religious dignitary in the land, whose authority stemmed from a Jerusalemite genealogy, turned the attention of many Palestinians to Zionist activity in that city. In 1929, when sporadic acts of violence surrounding the issue of holy places in Jerusalem turned into days of rioting, al-Husayni was unprepared. He had sensed rising tension in Jerusalem in 1928, in the face of a suspected Jewish drive to expand the Wailing Wall area, which would have undermined the holiest place for Islam in Jerusalem, Haram al-Sharif, the site of the al-Aqsa mosque. He hoped to exert control by establishing a committee for the defence of Jerusalem in 1928, to counteract any Zionist attempts to build a third Temple there. > Ironically, al-Husayni lost control because he was now trusted by a wider range of Palestinians than anyone in his family before him. The a’ayan traditionally valued ambiguity and caution as the best means of navigating their communities through times of trouble. In 1928, this meant simultaneously calling for the defence of Jerusalem and discouraging direct action on the ground. But the Palestinian masses found this kind of co-opted nationalism impossible. They lived near the holy places and saw Jews praying there in unprecedented numbers, which they saw as part of a larger scheme to ‘de-Islamize’ Palestine. A minor incident concerning prayer arrangements near the Wailing Wall, the western wall of the Haram, sparked violence that soon swept through Palestine as a whole in 1929. In all, 300 Jews and a similar number of Palestinians were killed. > The spillover of anger from Jerusalem into the countryside and other towns was not a co-ordinated plan by the leadership. Rather, it started with uprooted Palestinians who had lost their agricultural base for various reasons, including the capitalization of crops and the Jewish purchase of land. These former peasants lived on the urban margins, from where they participated in what to them was their first ever political, and violent, action. Their dismal conditions were not the fault of Zionism, but it was easy to connect Zionist activity in Jerusalem with the purchase of land or with an aggressive segregationist policy in the labour market. - pg 138

Husayni Exile to Nazi Germany

> The Palestinian leadership went through very different experiences during the Second World War. Amin al-Husayni was wandering as an exile from one Arab capital to the other, but made his way to Berlin, where he served the Nazi propaganda war machine and alienated the cause of his national movement in the eyes of the victors. He was accompanied by other members of the Arab Higher Committee, some having served terms in British prisons, where, ironically, they met extremist Jewish terrorists who had fought the British. In their absence, others had replaced them. The political scene had already been affected by politicians from neighbouring Arab countries and their local protégés. The result was the establishment of two conflicting official leaderships of the community: the old Arab Higher Committee, sanctioned by the Arab League and still dominated by the Husaynis (headed by Jamal al-Husayni), and the National Authority, headed by Raghib al-Nashashibi and supported by the Hashemites. This disunity affected the political structure from top to bottom, and was evident in every sphere of life. It crippled the financial organization which had recently been erected to counter Zionist economic power; it weakened the paramilitary outfits, which were in any case poorly armed and totally outnumbered by the Zionists; and it prevented solidarity within the national committees established to run local communities. These committees were particularly active in urban areas, and tried to prepare their communities for autonomous life during the transition at the end of the Mandate. The committees were, however, less loyal to their communities, and much more in debt to their clans or political groups, rendering the communities defenceless before a Zionist determination to take over Palestine, should the diplomatic solution offered by the British, or later by the UN, allow it, or an ensuing war enable it to do so. Had it not been for the military intervention of the Arab armies on 15 May 1948, not one fragment of Palestine would have remained outside Jewish control. - pg 172

  • Ilan Pappe - A History of Modern Palestine
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 26 Sep 11:48 collapse

To correct the other guy, "before Israel existed" is wrong. It's before the Zionist project started. So you're looking at the 19th century and before.

bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works on 26 Sep 16:25 collapse

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 26 Sep 17:04 collapse

Their quality of life under Muslim rule varied considerably in different periods, as did the attitudes of the rulers, government officials, the clergy, and the general population towards Jews, ranging from tolerance to persecution.

[deleted] on 26 Sep 18:21 next collapse
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bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works on 26 Sep 18:22 collapse

persecution

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 26 Sep 18:29 collapse

I mean yes, but what I'm trying to say is that antisemitism wasn't constant and came and went with time and place, like any other kind of xenophobia (or less so, because Jews and other people of the book are guaranteed civil rights in the Quran). Jews, as a rule, could live normal lives with no or minimal segregation under Muslim rule and the middle east was historically a safe haven for Jews fleeing persecution in Europe. It was, simply put, nothing like the region today or Europe historically.

bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works on 27 Sep 06:48 collapse

Persecution in europe also wasn’t constant. It varied significantly as well.

In the best case Jews were second class citizens under Muslim rule. They had to pay a special tax, were forbidden to own horses or weapons, and wear special clothing.

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 27 Sep 14:39 collapse

I mean you can look at this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule

The Middle East was, as I said before, a safe haven for Jews who suffered from persecution in Europe for most of history. There were instances of persecution, but what was considered normal in Christian Europe was much more of an exception in the Muslim world.

[deleted] on 26 Sep 16:23 collapse
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ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 21 Sep 23:29 next collapse

Yeah, they’re in a war that Lebanon started. And turns out, only America has the luxury of leaving their enemies alive

It seems someone has certainly not educated themselves on history. But did not expect that anyway from an Israel-supporter who is fine with murdering innocent people along the way.

Israel literally stole the Palestinian land, murdered many innocent people along the way and displaced 750 000 Palestinian people.

You cannot expect people and other countries to just let that happen without retaliation.

Besides I don’t even think America has any luxury of letting enemies alive if they’re immensely dangerous to the country. But then again America is the one enabling Israel to commit all these war crimes (genocide).

EDIT: Ouch, seeing your comment history. You deny that Israel is a Apartheid state. I will just block you. You are not worth the debate because of that.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 21 Sep 23:40 collapse

This is Lebanon, not Gaza.

MutilationWave@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 23:45 next collapse

And they are inextricably linked. Hezbollah sucks, Hamas sucks, but Israel sucks worse. They are coming to the aid of their comrades.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 22 Sep 01:07 collapse

Okay, by what measure do you think Israel is worse than Lebanon?

queermunist@lemmy.ml on 22 Sep 01:33 collapse

Lebanon isn’t doing genocide.

[deleted] on 22 Sep 01:37 collapse
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queermunist@lemmy.ml on 22 Sep 03:18 collapse

Go back to Reddit

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Sep 15:48 next collapse

It’s all part of the bigger plan… lebensraum…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 22 Sep 01:18 collapse

Yes, and? My man Lebanon has seen hell at the hands of Israel before. Many times. Also when your neighbor is being ethnically cleansed (ascending to full genocide in Gaza), the right thing to do both morally and under international law is to help them, not sit aside and send thoughts and prayers. I'm not sure why you expect them to sit aside and watch this nonsense unfold when by all means they're next after Israel is done with Gaza and the West Bank.

Keeponstalin@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 01:25 next collapse

Israel is the one that has repeatedly targeted civilians

Quotes

> The doctrine is named after the Dahiya suburb of Beirut, where the Lebanese paramilitary group Hezbollah has its headquarters, which the Israeli military leveled during its assault on Lebanon in the summer of 2006 that killed nearly 1,000 civilians, about a third of them children, and caused enormous damage to the country’s civilian infrastructure, including power plants, sewage treatment plants, bridges, and port facilities. > It was formulated by then-General Gadi Eisenkot when he was Chief of Northern Command. As he explained in 2008 referring to a future war on Lebanon: "What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on… We will apply disproportionate force on it (village) and cause great damage and destruction there. From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases… This is not a recommendation. This is a plan. And it has been approved.” Eisenkot went on to become chief of the general staff of the Israeli military before retiring in 2019. > While it became official Israeli military doctrine after Israel’s 2006 attack on Lebanon, Israel’s military has used disproportionate force and targeted Palestinian, Lebanese, and other civilians since Israel was established in 1948 based on the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians, including dozens of massacres to force them to flee for their lives.

Not to mention that Hezbollah only exists because of Israel

Quotes

> The 1982 Lebanon war began on 6 June 1982, when Israel invaded again for the purpose of attacking the Palestine Liberation Organization. The Israeli army laid siege to Beirut. During the conflict, according to Lebanese sources, between 15,000 and 20,000 people were killed, mostly civilians. > On 16 February 1985, Shia Sheik Ibrahim al-Amin declared a manifesto in Lebanon, announcing a resistance movement called Hezbollah, whose goals included combating the Israeli occupation. During the South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000) the Hezbollah militia waged a guerrilla campaign against Israeli forces occupying Southern Lebanon and their South Lebanon Army proxies.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 22 Sep 01:40 next collapse

Did you not know that Lebanon kills civilians all the time? Literally, they fired artillery and rockets at civilian targets on Oct 8th. …wikipedia.org/…/Israel–Hezbollah_conflict_(2023–…

Like honestly, you seem well informed. Are you deliberately ignoring what Hamas and Hezbollah does?

Keeponstalin@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 02:37 next collapse

No, I don’t ignore the actions of Hezbollah or Hamas. Its a bad situation all around. I recognize that violence doesn’t come out of nowhere, there are underlying causes and historical context. Fundamentally, all people are created equal, and all people deserve equal rights. Israel is a violent ethnostate founded on ethnic cleansing and Settler Colonialism. A lasting peace requires a regime change that replaces that with a secular One-State that gives equal rights to the indigenous Palestinian people. Instead, Israel is engaged in the genocide of Palestinians. Zionism is incompatible with human rights and it always has been.

Edit: if you disagree with any of that, explain why. Violence doesn’t come out of nowhere. It comes from either dehumanization and exploitation or as a reaction to violence

[deleted] on 22 Sep 12:04 collapse
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filister@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 05:23 next collapse

Did you not know that Israel kills civilians, and guess what, Israel is responsible for the killing of a lot more civilians than Hezbollah and Hamas together. …wikipedia.org/…/Children_in_the_Israeli–Palestin….

So it is very disputable if Israel has the moral high ground on this.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 22 Sep 12:08 collapse

According to Hezbollah. Not an unbiased source

rasmus@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 15:26 next collapse

Just as reliable as using idf as a source

Keeponstalin@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 16:34 collapse

From the hundreds of sources in that wiki page, the vast majority are Israeli and Western sources. So why would you say ‘according to Hezbollah’ in response?

JayTreeman@fedia.io on 22 Sep 11:34 collapse

#1. Israel is the aggressor. The state has been imposed on the people of the middle east through violence.
#2. Through US support, Israel is the most powerful country in this conflict. They therefore have the moral responsibility to act in a way to promote peace
#3. Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations. They're legitimately part of their respective government's
#4. Any act you've been told is a terrorist act by those two organizations was very likely legal under international law. Israel is an occupying force. People are legally allowed to fight that force through violence.

[deleted] on 22 Sep 12:01 collapse
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InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 22 Sep 01:59 next collapse

Then you can commit your genocide on your own.

We’ll just cancel all aid of any kind, best of luck.

spirinolas@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 11:53 collapse

It’s intriguing how only the weakest in the region seem to “start” wars with Israel.

[deleted] on 22 Sep 12:08 collapse
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llamatron@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 21:34 next collapse

Are Israelis Krikkiters?

MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net on 21 Sep 23:36 collapse

…please don’t ruin HHG for me 😰

apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 21:37 next collapse

They have been saying the quiet stuff out loud for quite some time now.

cygnus@lemmy.ca on 21 Sep 21:45 next collapse

Minister of Education? I wonder what the curriculum looks like.

nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 21 Sep 22:04 next collapse

If this is anything to go off I’d wager similar to if Florida was in the middle east.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 01:09 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a864a1a0-7dd9-4820-9d8b-e564be2b3c99.gif">

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 22 Sep 01:10 collapse

Now you know part of why there's nothing resembling peace yet.

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 21 Sep 21:58 next collapse

Americans, leash your fucking dog.

Phegan@lemmy.world on 21 Sep 23:36 next collapse

As an American, I believe you have the relationship wrong. We are Israel’s bitch.

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 22 Sep 01:01 next collapse

Not sure about that: nytimes.com/…/reagan-demands-end-to-attacks-in-a-…

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 22 Sep 01:09 collapse

I mean yeah that was a time when American presidents had more balls. Now we have Trump and Joe Zionist Biden.

matcha_addict@lemy.lol on 25 Sep 00:02 collapse

Support for Israel is their choice and interest. They aren’t being held by the balls like you make it sound.

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 25 Sep 02:33 collapse

Past presidents supported Israel while making it clear (sew Reagan's phone call) that they won't allow nonsense like what Israel is doing right now.

matcha_addict@lemy.lol on 25 Sep 23:23 collapse

But they literally did. What Israel is doing is not new. The only thing new is media coverage.

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 26 Sep 11:40 collapse

What Israel is doing is not new.

It is. The scale of violence in Gaza right now is unprecedented in the region, surpassing even the Nakba and the two invasions of Lebanon, specifically because past US presidents had (definitely too loose, but not nonexistent) reigns on Israel.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 01:07 next collapse

It’s really more like one of those really toxic codependent relationships where both seize to use any reason because they’re just whoring to the whims of the other.

Like a really sexually frustrated 50 year old (married) guy and a 20 year old bipolar exotic (male) dancer with a substance abuse issue

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 22 Sep 01:58 next collapse

Not Israel’s so much as Bibi’s.

He loves to humiliate us cause we’re his sub and he gets off on showing us how total his control is.

Crashumbc@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 18:03 collapse

US has only one master and that’s capitalism. Israel has money and is making the war machine rich. If Israel started costing the rich in the US money that would change very quickly.

generichate1546@lemmynsfw.com on 22 Sep 01:28 next collapse

Dude…I am yet to hear any individual I interact with support these atrocities… Americans are pretty disgusted with the government too.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 22 Sep 11:36 next collapse

You might want to check elsewhere in this comment section.

SaltySalamander@fedia.io on 22 Sep 07:07 collapse

You should talk to someone outside of your circle then. Specifically to an evangelical.

Cistello@reddthat.com on 22 Sep 15:56 collapse

They sell their weapons for “influence” but have 0 influence over the ones they sell their weapons to Same thing for Saudi Arabia

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Sep 15:46 next collapse

God told these cultists that they’re supposed to steal all the land between certain latitudes or something. I dunno. I’m not in that cult.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

Jayjader@jlai.lu on 22 Sep 16:03 collapse

First there was no difference between gaza/the Palestinians and Hamas, now there’s no difference between Hezbollah and Lebanon…