Why are Israeli lawmakers wearing gold nooses?
(www.aljazeera.com)
from technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com to world@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 17:06
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/59397009
from technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com to world@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 17:06
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/59397009
More than 110 Palestinian prisoners have died from torture and mistreatment since Itamar Ben-Gvir became Israel’s security minister. Now he wants the power to hang them.
#world
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Fun fact:
In the days leading up to the attack, that guy was spending his time giving interviews about how spitting on Christians is a harmless tradition that needed to be protected rather than discouraged
He was such an extremist at 18, that he was banned from joining the IDF even though they force people to join.
And that’s not even getting into his connections to assassinations and car bombing…
Apparently he went on his first date with his now wife to the grave of Baruch Goldstein, a mass murderer and terrorist. He also had/has a picture/portrait of Goldstein in his living room.
Jeezzus… So, like, cartoon villain evil; got it.
That’s totally fried
It’s time we stopped pretending that Israel was a little pocket of Europe and recognize that it’s a brutal theocratic regime. The biggest difference between Israel and States like Saudi Arabia and Iran is the branding.
I stopped. I was very pro Israel back in the day. Even said “well Israel wants to divide the country while hamas wants all Jews dead… I have to side with the Jews”
But then they did a genocide and it’s like “well there goes that theory”
No one likes to be wrong but what’s worse is continuing to be wrong after you know.
I don’t know the solution but I’ve changed my mind on the problem.
The secret is Israel was always doing a genocide.
Always is very broad term. I can tell you during ww2 they were not genocideing Palestine.
I agree that this was ramping up for longer than I knew but using words like “always” only hurts the cause .
It was "only" displacement, colonization, and (smaller) ethnic cleansing at that time
Edit: here's a list of bombings by the Irgun, a Zionist militia and terrorist organization (who were eventually folded into the IDF) during (and after) WW2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
Hers a list of mammoths migration patterns that sparked a resource war with Neanderthals.
I’m sure you are technically correct but that isn’t most people “starting point”
There’s only so far back you can go before people labor it non important
Edit: not important to current events. Not saying it wasn’t horrible
My point is 2000 years ago that was undisputed “Israel “ how far back are we going before we have to admit “that doesn’t matter for this discussion “
Not important to current events? Explain to me how groups that were merged together to form the IDF, and were fighting to create Israel is unimportant to Israel and its current actions and existence.
From the very beginning of Zionist migration to Palestine (the historic region, whether it was under Ottoman rule or British rule), it was colonial, and intended to remove the people currently living there. You can read it from Theodore Herzl, and Ze'ev Jabotinsky. Some of the first and very prominent Zionists. David Ben-Gurion,the first prime minister of Israel himself, in a letter to his son basically said the partition plan was just the first step to taking the entire land.
Without that ideology and attitude, we wouldn't be where we are now.
I already explained.
“If we look at migration paths of mammoths we can see…” you have to draw the line somewhere. It’s complicated.
You have something that shows it was this groups fault? Great a few years before that it was someone else’s choice.
It’s over 2000 years of history. We have to draw the line somewhere.
It's not really that complicated.
The "over 2000 years ago" or whatever previous maybe exigent state of Israel has nothing to do with the current one, other than as a religious fig leaf and excuse for Zionism.
To quote Ilan Pape: "Most Zionists don't believe that God exists but they do believe that he promised them Palestine"
You're the one that brought up WW2 as a time period in the first place. Only to discard the evidence I presented of yes, in fact Zionists (who ended up forming Israel, and Zionism continues to be the basis of Israeli society and politics) were already committing what would/could/should be considered terrorist attacks against Palestinians.
As long as Zionism/Zionists have existed in Palestine, they have existed to displace or kill all Palestinians.
I draw the line at the most logical place: Zionism's creation/popularization. It is the root cause of all this.
It’s not complicated? I’m on your side brother but I’m not expressing it “enough@ for you. I’m not hitting all the correct notes for you. Therefore you need to change the person “on you’re side”
Sound complicated to me brother.
If someone come to me and talks me slavery is bad I don’t need to explain the complicated back story. They are on my side. I accept them.
It’s important to you that I know specific backstories.
Sounds like it’s a complicated issues then brother.
I’m not signing up for the lecture. I’ve already landed where you want.
Is that not good enough my friend?
You are so close. Why stop half way there. Look into the founding of Israel. It was always colonial and Zionist. Jews lived in Palestine before Israel. Peacefully with their Palestinian neighbors. The middle east wasn’t even the first place the UK and USA were looking to relocate the Jews to.
For a time they were looking to the jungles of South America. But the Zionists wouldn’t have it. Hijacking the process and demanding Palestine. After what happened to the Jewish people as a whole. (Though not most of the wealthy Zionists demanding Palestine. As they all fled with their families early.) There was a lot of sympathy collectively. And for many reasons the UK and allies finally caved on Palestine. So instead of moving and integrating with the local peoples and culture. They came rolling up with the aid of two large bullies to steal the land from under the people living in it. Day one minute one.
That isn’t to say that this was all or is all the people living in Israel. Just the leadership the whole time.
That was us not Israel. It was us saying “we want them freed… but don’t send them here!”
It’s complicated. That’s why say I don’t know what’s “right “ but I can tell what’s “wrong”
What’s going on now is wrong. I don’t think it’s fair to just say “the other guys are right, give it to them”
It’s complicated. But we all agree what is happening right now is wrong. That’s our common ground.
Israel used to be a lush forest. The further back you go the more complicated it gets.
We can agree “right now… this is wrong!”
That’s only if you stop the WW2 timeline abruptly and not include the Nakba where’s Jews “removed” 750k Palestians off their land.
The regional rain changes during the late 1400s tho! Let’s talk about the crusades. What about this night doing that thing 1500 years ago.
I have my line. Respect it.
1500 years, and 2 years is a huge difference though, especially when it involved the exact same people, not ancestors or promise land people from a book written 4000 years ago.
You’re right. I’ll go back to siding with Israel. You win brother. You changed my mind.
You ever consider leaving well enough alone?
Congrats on reaching the middle ground, but this one is so far away from “complicated”
lol middle ground? You think I’m unsure about the importance of this?
You want to give me a lesson in historical events to prove a view I ALREADY Agree with.
I’m explaining I’m very busy and I don’t care.
Sounds terrible sure. I’m already on your side brother and your view is “but you don’t agree the 3rd crisis of the second realm caused the orphan of impossible fate! How could you claim to care if you haven’t experts dark water in the limitless plane!!!”
Dude I’m on your side! What nonsense are you going on about?! I sheltered homeless people in my home. I’ve hid immigrants. I showed employees how to work HR systems to report bosses.
I’m sorry I haven’t read the forgotten tomb of great regard but I’m doing more than my part.
You are hurting your cause bro. Chill. Take the easy win.
You must be a bot to be this upset about an obvious win that don’t meet pre- determined metrics.
“He agrees but he didn’t mention the translcuent dragon only the clear dragon!!! We must educate him”
What exactly is your goal? Explain to me what “winning” against me looks like?
Explaining what the Hannibal Directive is, or at least explaining to me why jews should be exterminated for burning down the Reichstag building, would be a great start.
If your argument is that an entity that didn’t exist wasn’t able to do a thing, so “always” didn’t apply, it’s a stupid argument not worth bringing up
You have a stupid argument not worth mentioning. But I’ll indulge you.
My argument is history is written by the victors and it’s over 2000 years of complications. I don’t care to hear about what 100 years ago. It’s not on the table.
What I will say is you’re arguing with someone who’s already on your side about complicated past stuff and making me feel bad for not knowing.
Fine you win. I’m back to supporting Israel. I was on your side but wasn’t educated enough so now I’m supporting Israel again. Good job.
Let’s talk about Pangea?
Doubling down doesn’t help you here.
Double down? No im reversing course.
Your different accounts haven’t explained why I’m in your hotseat for agreeing with you?
The negative votes don’t matter to me because I know where they come from.
Say something valid or leave bot man.
Fuck you. I’m back to pro Israel because you needed to run your mouth. Good job bot boy.
You drastically overestimate your power here lol
What a whiny child. Holy shit.
What a terrible explainer holy shit. You had someone one your side and you turned them away. That’s on you buddy. You totally fucked that up lol
I’m moody son of gun. You had me in your hands bet you couldn’t shut up. You had to point out exactly why I wasn’t right enough and I turned away…
You’d make terrible leader I know a thing or two about leadership. You are worse than nothing.
Simply existing and speak hurt your point.
And that’s my fault? That’s you being crappy at explaining things. Do better in the future.
I’d wouldn’t trust you with the bag holding my dogs shit and you think that’s my flaw?
That’s on you buddy. You fucked that up. Good job. You’d help your movement more by shutting the hell up lol. Good job.
You took an easy and given win and made it a loss. Good job. You are definitely more mature than me lol. You couldn’t shut the hell up for for team. You just had so much to say, you couldn’t hold your face closed. Good job, you earned a loss from a win. You changed my mind lol.
All you had to do was nothing and you fucked that up do you know how stupid that makes you? My damn confession helped more than you actively turning people away. An outsider did more than you because you couldn’t shut up. Doing nothing would have been better for you.
You are worse than nothing lol literally. I can’t imagine a bigger failure. You were winning then you spoke. Now you’ve lost. Jesus Christ how do you sleep at night being such a failure? Every word you speak hurts your point bro lol
Is this really about winning or losing? Does your opinion on a topic depend on the behaviour of other people?
No, it really isn’t about the argument at all or that person.
I didnt really switch back to supporting Israel either.
I just have a lot going on lately and little stuff can set me off in to a kind of … episode…
That’s what you saw there and why it sounds so… unhinged.
It was apartheid. Now it’s also genocide
Also the tremendous amounts of resources.
Israel hardly has any natural resources. They get a huge amount of outside money and material support. Most of their GDP is from manufacturing, especially computer and medical equipment, and software. But their #1 export is cut diamonds apparently, TIL.
Because even the distilled evil that is Ben-Gvir can’t help but look like a pathetic edgelord in an attempt to look tough
Because a swastika would be too on-the-nose (this unforgivable piece of shit admitted as much when confronted by a reporter)
In possibly the greatest historical irony, Israelis are the new Nazis
As an American Jew, I am HORRIFIED by this, and everything else Israel has been doing for the last several years
What’s the average view among American Jews?
Fuck this Nazi shit
American Jew here, i concur
Have you ever heard the saying that regular Muslims need to stand up to extremist fundamentalists? See how difficult it is to stand up to this bullshit? Are you gonna have sympathy for Muslims now? See how easy it is to fall for a Reichstag fire event? Are you gonna have sympathy for Germans now?
To be fair, many Jews are standing up. It’s just that nearly every Jewish institution is corrupted by Israel
As far as I can tell most synagogues aren’t that cool, though. The ones remotely nearby to me give Zionist vibes.
It’s a shame, I was planning to reconnect with my heritage right before Oct. 7.
Same. Its more rare but there are definitely temples that arent zionist still
Hopefully you mean several decades, or even 100+ years. Nothing they've been doing now is particularly new to them. Maybe just a larger, louder magnitude.
The state of Israel is not even 80 years old.
You should study some history
I have. Enough to know that Zionism, and Zionist militias pre-date Israel, were folded together to create the IDF, and were doing fucked up shit then, and continue to do so now. Maybe you should study some history yourself.
Yet, you’ve still failed on the very basics of the situation.
You just googled Zionism. You have now proven that you don’t know shit about it, beyond what Google tells you.
Google =! Research
You don't know shit about what I know and don't know.
I've read up enough on the Irgun, Palmach, Haganah, Herzl, Jabotinsky, and Ben-Gurion (among others) to know what I need to, thank you very much.
Not to mention that all the shit that was stolen from my family by Zionists.
Yet, you are perfectly comfortable, making the same incorrect assumption about me. Hypocrite.
You have googled enough to prove to everyone here that you don’t know a goddamn thing about what you’re talking about. This little tantrum of yours only reinforces that
I suggest that you go cry to someone who is stupid enough to believe a word you say. You won’t find that here.
I never claimed to know what you know.
I just hoped that if you did know more, you'd be horrified by a lot more than just "the last several years". That's all I meant with my first comment.
And since you claim to know so much, I'm disappointed that you're not.
If I'm so wrong in my knowledge, then please, go ahead and correct me. I'm open to being wrong and corrected, but you've pointed out nothing where I am in fact wrong.
Because in my understanding, it is factual that Zionist militias were operating in the 1920s (100+ years ago!), 1930s (most of the action was after the Arab Revolt in 1936), and 1940s until the state of Israel was formed, after which they were dissolved and mixed into the IDF. I haven't made claims beyond that in this thread.
yes, you did. in your first comment. Hypocrite. Liar.
you just hoped that we all were too stupid to notice that your bro-rage originated from an incomplete google search;engine search. you failed on that point, too.
of all the things you have said, zero is correct. so, FACTS say you’re wrong.
which, by now, you must understand (as everyone else does) that your “understanding” is the equivalent of raw sewage.
Hang them by those nooses.
To symbolize that they need to be hanged for crimes against humanity?
Ben-Gvir himself should be tried and punished for his participation in the conspiracy to murder Yizhak Rabin.
They miss the days where they would have worn a large yellow Star of David.
Right you - get in the bin.
What the actual fuck is wrong with you
Are we the baddies?
They are.