Germany moves to criminalize denial of Israel's existence | The Jerusalem Post (web.archive.org)
from interesting@sh.itjust.works to world@lemmy.world on 13 Jul 07:49
https://sh.itjust.works/post/63326302

Under the proposal, anyone who publicly or at a gathering denies the right of the State of Israel to exist, or calls for its elimination, would face punishment.

archieve: web.archive.org/save/https://…/article-902237

original url : www.jpost.com/diaspora/…/article-902237

#world

threaded - newest

flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz on 13 Jul 08:38 next collapse

denial of Israel’s existence

or calls for its elimination

Oh they eliminated the obvious loophole: “It does exist but it shouldn’t”

Tolc@lemmy.world on 13 Jul 09:23 next collapse

this is the western values which liberals talk about

Mantzy81@aussie.zone on 13 Jul 09:30 next collapse

I have no issue with Israel existing. I have an issue with its policies and its land grabs, not the country itself. If they weren’t a bunch of cunts, then it would be fine.

A country can be reduced to the size of a small city and still exist too, just saying.

thethrilloftime69@feddit.online on 13 Jul 16:01 next collapse

Israel couldn’t exist without the land grabs and being cunts.

dubyakay@lemmy.ca on 13 Jul 20:53 collapse

You should read about the Nakba and how the country of Israel came to be.

Spoilers: it had little to do with the persecution of Jewish people in Europe.

WanderingThoughts@europe.pub on 13 Jul 10:12 next collapse

Now assume some responsibility for their war crimes.

Fishnoodle@lemmy.world on 13 Jul 12:11 next collapse

Israel is a fucking mistake and needs to be fixed

eyesaremosaics@lemmy.zip on 13 Jul 12:12 next collapse

So… does calling for a revised state in Israel/Palestine that is democratic and without bias towards one race break this law? It is calling for Israel in its current form to be replaced

huppakee@lemmy.world on 13 Jul 12:34 next collapse

Just don’t do it in Germany is all

Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca on 13 Jul 13:26 collapse

According to Germany, yes. Because you have to agree to the right to exist of a Jewish state (according to the law), the state can get fucked.

As if that isn’t conflating Zionazis and Judaism wasn’t harder.

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 13 Jul 14:20 next collapse

The Bundesrat added that Israel’s establishment and acceptance by the international community are closely connected to Germany’s responsibility for the Shoah and the necessity of finding a secure homeland for Jews.

That’s historically incorrect. Israel was not created because of the Holocaust.

Not to mention of course that the Israeli apartheid regime is far from any kind of “secure homeland for Jews”.

modernangel@sh.itjust.works on 13 Jul 15:32 collapse

“closely connected”, not “X was a direct consequence of Y”

Yes, the 1897 First Zionist Congress in Basel predated the Nazi Party by 20+ years. One of Zionist organizer Herzl’s motives was to ensure refuge from European anti-Jewish racism. Same racism that led to the Nazi death camps.

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 13 Jul 16:42 next collapse

“closely connected”, not “X was a direct consequence of Y”

Correlation is an even worse legal/political justification for the law. Advances in rail infrastructure and in chemical engineering are also “closely connected to Germany’s responsibility for the Shoah”. WTF are we even talking about?

Yes, the 1897 First Zionist Congress in Basel predated the Nazi Party by 20+ years. One of Zionist organizer Herzl’s motives was to ensure refuge from European anti-Jewish racism. Same racism that led to the Nazi death camps.

That’s my point exactly. But there were other Jewish political projects that tried to address the same racism, that were not themselves racist (the founders of the Zionist movement, including Herzl himself, specifically characterized Zionism as a colonial project), such as the Jewish Bund. German pro-zionists today don’t get to play time-travellers and retroactively change what the foundation of Israel was about.

flandish@lemmy.world on 13 Jul 21:07 collapse

“actually” his goal was to create a capitalist point of presence with major UK/Europe/US backing in a region known to have potential for oil and profit. It was sold under the idea of a Jewish land because that’s how manufactured consent works. But… anyone who has paid any attention to Jewish faith history knows it’s a tribe, not a nation, and certainly not what zionists said it was supposed to be.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 13 Jul 16:30 next collapse

Fine

Any state that commits genocide should not be allowed to exist

So at least Russia, China, …

Doomsider@lemmy.world on 13 Jul 20:20 collapse

I think this would include most countries.

svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 13 Jul 16:33 next collapse

Germany taking responsibility for trying to create an ethno-state by helping to create an ethno-state.

ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world on 13 Jul 21:35 collapse

Germany is like a broken Asimov robot at this point.

We do not hold current Germans responsible for the holocaust. Please stop, you are doing the bad thing, putting rules and laws above human life. Please stop Deutschlandroid