from Keeponstalin@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 10 Oct 2024 16:17
https://lemmy.world/post/20708853
Two UN peacekeepers in Lebanon have been wounded by Israeli fire, the mission said on Thursday, as Israel’s military ground operations in the country continued.
In a statement, the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil) said two of its members were wounded after a Merkava tank fired towards an observation tower at Unifil headquarters in Naqoura, “directly hitting it and causing them to fall”.
“[Israeli] soldiers also fired on UN position (UNP) 1-31 in Labbouneh, hitting the entrance to the bunker where peacekeepers were sheltering, and damaging vehicles and a communications system,” said the peacekeeping mission.
“An IDF drone was observed flying inside the UN position up to the bunker entrance.”
Israeli attacks in Lebanon over the past month, including a bombing campaign and ground invasion, have killed over 1,200 people and displaced one million.
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Good bot
Why did people Downvote this?
Downvote the bot? They do in every thread, form of protest against it from what I’ve read. They don’t like 1 person with a bias generating a bases for everyone as to whether a source is legitimate, as it could skew unfamiliar people to believe what isn’t true. Also, it’s frame of left/right is bias towards a localized perception from their area, not a global perception.
What the fuck
Don’t forget that Israeli affiliated militias assassinated their UN negotiator in 1948.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte
The leader of the assassination plot was the future founder of the modern Likud party and future prime Minister, Yitzhak Shamir. He lead the Likud party until 1993 when Netanyahu took over. His Wikipedia page is absolutely fucked.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir
This and their attacks on the UNRWA are far from the first times Israel has been at war with the UN.
Can’t get more evil than the israelis
Man, imagine being a neighbor to those psycopaths. Or even worse, imagine being born Palestinian.
Israel: “No, you!”
I’m sure the US will protest this time with real energy and will then send another billion in military equipment.
Attacking UN peacekeepers is unacceptable…but we will accept it
Tis but a flesh wound!
Ireland is vocal about the Palestines peoples human rights, which has angered Israel greatly. They are also not a member of NATO.
What a strange coincidence that it’d be Irish peacekeepers who were attacked.
Does that matter? They killed an American protestor. Israel killed hundreds of other humanitarians. Israel even killed their own citizens.
It is all crazy.
Biden is working on setting up a coup in Lebanon
The worst part is that you may be right
Edit: grammar
Are you thinking ‘sternly worded memo’ or ‘a leak that Biden is outraged behind the scenes’, but not officially? Those seem extreme.
How about one or all 3 of these:
Every bill will have “Knock it off!” written on it. In bold face!
I’m sure the UN peacekeepers were hanging around hospitals, schools and/or Palestinians
What the fuck is wrong with these assholes?
More like nationalism.
Porque no los dos? Or rather an inseparable blend of both
Because as usual religion can be used to argue for as well as against a political question. The only self coherent framework that has as its logical conclusion Israeli policy is nationalism.
Edit: plus, a nationalist explanatory framework is least susceptible to the moral hazard of anti-Semitism. Israeli policy is not exceptional, it’s as banal as Serbian or Azerbaijani ethnic nationalism, revanchism, jingoism and bigotry.
Religion is rarely a problem until it’s conservative, just like politics.
Fucking no. Israel does not represent judiasm. Jews everywhere disavow them. Zionism is not Jewish.
Claiming that this is Jewish is antisemitism from both Israel and you.
This is about land, not religion.
Wars always are.
But warring factions almost always use the religion of the people as a strong lever and excuse in order to maintain the support of those people for the war effort.
This is no different. There have been strong and influential factions (on both sides of the conflict) who have claimed that the piece of dirt they’re fighting over is holy land to both of the religions represented.
No, it’s Zionism
Zionism is a Settler Colonialist Project. Israel has never represented all Jewish people and never will, nor are it’s actions done to benefit all Jewish people. The conflation is itself antisemitic. Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized (see 29:01) by Zionism during its history.
Ilan Pappe, an Israeli historian, discusses it more in his book
Dude, stop. Conflating the two is responsible for genuine Antisemitism. Antisemites love the conflation because they can then attribute all the war crimes and political influence of Israel to all Jewish people, in order to justify their own antisemitic conspiracy theories. It is genuinely responsible for a rise in hate crimes abroad. Zionism is a form of Fascism that weaponizes antisemitism as a shield for it’s actions.
I take any kind of hate speech seriously. Racism, Antisemitism, Islamophobia, etc. I’m not going to let any of that slide.
Please make sure to flag them next time. I only happened to see their post because a different one was flagged.
Bigotry is not welcome here. Criticism of Israel in any way is fine. Conflating Jews with Israel is not.
Edit: Also, as a Jew who has never supported Israel, their apartheid state or their genocide, I appreciate your defense.
Thank you, FlyingSquid. I only flagged them once I realized they didn’t care about the difference.
Some people do change, so I try to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise
Maybe they’re using the tried-and-tested strategy of targeting UN forces to make them leave. It happened in Rwanda too, they killed those Belgian peacekeepers and then Belgium and France pulled out. Shortly after that, the Rwandan start their genocide. At least the Israelis seem to have just wounded the peacekeepers, unlike the Rwandan, who hacked the Belgian with machetes. Nevertheless, it doesn’t look very promising.
The Israelis did it in 2006 as well. killed 4 UN peacekeepers chilling in their post. en.wikipedia.org/…/International_incidents_during… No real repercussions from it.
They did it during the 6 day war too. Rolled up on some UN peacekeepers trying to leave the sinai and slaughtered them. 15 killed 17 wounded. 14 Indians and 1 Brazilian. TheUN peacekeepers were evacuating at the time and Israel didnt even pretend to not know they were UN.
en.wikipedia.org/…/United_Nations_Emergency_Force No real repercussions from it.
They also attacked the USS Liberty, and American Navy ship in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171. Israel pretended not to know it was American, but its not a beleivable denial. As always, there were No real repercussions from it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Its clearly standard operating procedure to murder some UN peacekeepers. Its not like they are hard to pick out in their bright white painted vehicles and structures, and blue uniforms. Its just plain old murder.
Can you name a settler colonial project that committed a genocide that wouldn’t fire at peacekeepers?
Why are they even there?
From a real news source: reuters.com/…/un-peacekeepers-lebanon-say-we-are-…
They’re supposed to be Peacekeepers not Peace Makers. There’s a war happening and usually Peacekeepers leave the area when it becomes an active war.
Their mission was to find Hezbollah weapons… well it seems they weren’t all that effective at doing that mission. Anyway, the IDF will remove those weapons for them. So they no longer have a mission to be there to do.
This is extremely incompetent on the part of the UN. It’s a struggle for the UN to get countries to volunteer soldiers to be UN Peacekeepers. The UN using Peacekeepers as human shields isn’t going to help in that. Peacekeepers serve an important function, and the UN putting them in unnecessary danger because it’s upset at Israel is completely irresponsible.
Israel targeting Civilians and UN personnel/facilities with the justification of ‘human shields’ is nothing new.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2e5ab2f7-27b8-4e1b-816b-648860999fd1.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/78c753f0-4e8b-459d-b2ee-b10f8802b9cf.jpeg">
Is Al Jazeera still putting up casualty numbers like it’s scoreboard in a sport? Seems disgusting to me how they do that.
So my question is, do you think Hamas keeping Israelis hostage (which is a war crime BTW) is worth having all of this death?
If you find thousands dead to be casual, that’s on you. The IDF sure does if they’re Palestinian or Lebanese.
Hamas was willing to do a full hostage exchange since Oct 8th. Israel has rejected any permanent ceasefire, that would release all the hostages, in favor of genocide. So maybe ask the Israeli Government that question instead.
I’m not pushing Al Jazeera’s pretty graphical scoreboards here. I’m not the one presenting death in a casual manner.
No, the onus is not on Israel for this. Hamas massacred villages (genocide) and took civilians hostage, which is a war crime. They continue to hold hostages, so they’re continuing in their war crimes every day.
It’s obvious they’re only holding the hostages now to prolong this so that Al Jazeera can make pretty graphics on the suffering of Palestinians so they can get more donation money. It seems you’re content to be a part of this sick grift Hamas has made by monetizing the suffering of Palestinians.
It’s obvious now they aren’t going to win anything other than the propganda war. But Israel obviously doesn’t give a shit about the propaganda, and they’re winning on every other front. So why continue the propaganda? Do you want this to drag on longer so more people will die?
Hamas did commit war crimes on Oct 7, not genocide. Nor does this kind of violence come out of nowhere. When people are subjected to the daily violence of Apartheid for generations, they will inevitably use violence to fight back. The underlying cause of all this violence stems from Zionism (Ethnic Cleansing, Settler Colonialism, Apartheid), and the only way to end the violence to to end the underlying cause.
Apartheid
Amnesty Report Human Rights Watch Report B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Genocide
Holocaust scholar to discuss his conclusion that Gaza campaign constitutes genocide UN Expert Says Impunity for Israel Must End as ‘Genocidal Violence’ Spreads to West Bank “A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza 800+ Legal Scholars Say Israel May Be Perpetrating ‘Crime of Genocide’ in Gaza Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC
Neverending Violence
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/67649972-aa06-4f5c-b2af-9f5a3a99e73b.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0bcdb1ef-4ec7-48c9-8673-4380dc6414b1.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6c76e53b-270d-4983-bbf7-90ac00238d42.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8d2b0846-c0a3-4bfb-b07f-0438842b8110.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/04dd0917-2519-4e50-9fe7-57447668450c.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f0dec0d2-6e29-4afe-ab61-cf8d4db93934.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f917f1eb-9d3c-42e3-b6e2-b1718e801e69.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8aae5733-c37f-40a4-9715-0766335b3c16.jpeg">
Palestinian Prisoners in Israeli Prisons
Palestinians are jailed without charge, forced into false confessions, routinely tortured, raped, denied medical attention, and some killed as a result. This includes hundreds of children. Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B’TSelem) Palestinian Prisoners in Israel (wiki) Children are jailed and abused in Israeli prisons (Save The Children) Torture and Abuse in Interrogations (B’TSelem) Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy (NPR) Urgently investigate inhumane treatment and enforced disappearance of Palestinians detainees from Gaza (Amnesty)
Massacring villages is genocide. This wasn’t civilians getting hit by stray bullets or shrapnel, not a targeting error, not some rogue member of Hamas getting out of control. This was Hamas combatants masscring villages under the orders of Yahya Sinwar, who is now the leader of Hamas.
You’re desperately trying to make excuses for the genocide committed by Hamas because you’ve dehumanized Israelis. You’re a genocide denier.
I’m the one advocating for an end to violence and equal rights for both Israeli and Palestinians.
You are projecting hard
One or Two State Solution
>The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases. - Avi Shlaim How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe One State Solution, Foreign Affairs Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place. > During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government. - latimes.com/…/rivals-hamas-and-fatah-sign-a-decla… Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Copy-paste as many words as you want, but as long as you refuse to accept Hamas committed genocide, you’ll always be a genocide denier.
Dude, just block him. Can’t you see how he distorts reality? Either he’s a troll or completely indoctrinated. You will not convince this kind of trash. Ignore him.
Yeah, you’re right. He’s not worth arguing with. I think I’ll still post the sources to show he’s wrong in case anyone sees his misinformation. I’d rather it not go uncontested. But yeah, no point arguing with him. Any onlookers unsure can check the sources and see for themselves that he’s wrong
Hamas tried immediately to trade the Israeli hostages for hostages the Israelis are holding, without charge, withour trail, indefinitely. israel said no. But no one ever wants to talk about the hostages the Israelis took before Oct 7. They want to pretend this started on Oct 7.
Yeah they traded for Yahya Sinwar in a previous deal. You know, the guy that planned October 7 and is now the leader of Hamas.
Sure, it didn’t begin on October 7. And it also didn’t begin with the next time Israel does an air strike. Or the next time. Or the time after that.
Palestinians are dying and you’re rooting for a continuation of violence indefinitely. You obviously don’t care about Palestinian lives because you don’t want the conflict to end even while Hamas and Hezbollah are losing badly and are only getting anyone that happens to be near them killed.
and you’re making things up out of thin air and being utterly wrong about your fantasy conclusions. Its like arguing with a republican.
You’re no longer considering any facts that challenge the narratives you get directly from social media and dubious “news” sources. You probably hate Democrats, probably look the other way about any antisemitic remarks from your peers. Also look the other way about atrocities committed by the fascists that are “on your side”.
The pro-Palestinian movement (really the anti-Israeli movement, if we’re being honest) is an alt-right movement if we’re being objective about comparing it to other political movements. Really how is this movement any different from any of the other alt-right movements? Only because you don’t call yourself alt-right?
Spacecowboy@ You said: <Begin quote>
<End quote>
You do realize netenyahu aligns himself with far right leaders and Israel has a far right government. Dont you? And that Palestine protestors are almost uniformly progressives, on the far other end of the political extreme from the far right? timesofisrael.com/yair-netanyahu-exposes-israels-…
foreignpolicy.com/…/why-benjamin-netanyahu-loves-…
npr.org/…/a-look-into-the-rise-of-right-wing-isra…
It seems that you dont understand what the term alt-right even means. Its a far right white nationalist movement.
And you make up a lot of “probablies” out of thin air, which sure looks like mental illness to me.
Blaming others for exactly what you are guilty of is a classic republican move. Again with this from you. It gets old.
Or do you really honestly think palestinians and their supporters are part of a white nationalist movement? How does that make any sense at all? The “white” people here are Israelis. Palestinians and Arabs dont consider themselves to be white. But part of the alt right you say, interesting. Are these nonwhite members of the alt-right… hating themselves? And by your reckoning, the far right Israels are the victims of the alt right? ?? really? So its alt-right human rights supporters vs the far right Israelis? Is this some kind of rightwing civil war? You’d think they could get along being so closely ideologically aligned.
Your assertions are all just so remarkably crazy that I dont even know what to say. But I think its past time for me to block your username.
You realize that Hamas is a fascist organization. Don’t you?
Fascism isn’t actually about specific ethnicities. It isn’t even about being specifically antisemitic, though Hamas most definitely has that going on.
Fascism is about promoting strongman to protect people from the other, the other usually being of a different ethnicity and/or religious group. The other is paradoxically both strong and weak. It’s about promoting a return to a past ethnic makeup of a region to how it was in the history book, ie. blood and soil. It’s about using past humiliations to entice people into accepting the strongman as their leader. It’s about de-legitimizing democracy and the free press. It’s about using violence to achieve these goals, including the use of ethnic cleansing and genocide. It’s about maintaining a violent fervour and a hatred towards the enemy so people don’t question the strongman’s leadership.
Hamas fits this description. If you’re in the same movement as Hamas, you’re at best alt-right, or at worst a fascist. I know among your fringe group you don’t talk about yourselves that way and will put on blinders to avoid seeing Hamas for what it is. But people outside of your little group actually do see Hamas for what it is and see you for who you are.
If you could stop subjecting yourself to imagery meant to keep you in a violent fervour for even a few days you might begin to question the leadership of the strongman Yahya Sinwar which has resulted in the destruction of Gaza. But you probably won’t do that because you’re stuck in an endless emotional manipulation loop. And that’s exactly how fascism works.
Please link to the sources. The link is more important then the graphics
AJ Israel-Lebanon Live Tracker
Euro-Med Monitor Report
They are there because the Israelis act like spolied violent children. They dont WANT to be there.
Yeah they’re soldiers, they follow orders. The UN leadership is abdicating it’s responsibility to ensure the safety of the soldiers that countries have generously provided them. So they’re having Peacekeepers that no longer have a missions stay in an obvious warzone because why? The leadership at the UN is acting like children here. They’re putting lives at risk for their own petty reasons.
Why the fuck is the IDF there?
Because the UN obviously failed to disarm Hezbollah. Hezbollah were planning to use the weapons the UN failed to take from to attack Israel in a similar way (but on a larger scale) to October 7.
The Peacekeepers failed to keep the peace. Hezbollah has been firing rockets (which according to the UN, they shouldn’t have) at Israel for a year. Many times at civilian population centers.
There is no reason for Peacekeepers to stay in a war zone.
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That’s good for you to admit that Hamas, Hezbollahand the Houthis are attacking Israel. Making progress!
So your main issue is that you want war to be fair, like it’s a sport? It’s not a sport, people die in wars. Making it fair just means it drags out longer causing more loss of life.
That graph also indicated that Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis are outmatched and should give up on trying to defeat Israel on a battle field. They should put down their weapons and sit down at a negotiating table. They aren’t going to get everything they want (that’s the nature of negotiation) but they’d get something and people don’t have to needlessly die in their futile wars. And the longer they fight the less they’ll get in any kind of peace.
You’ve just proven the stupidity of Iran’s “Axis of Resistance”. But these are fascist strongman “blood and soil” type movements and those type of movements are known for their stupidity resulting in their destruction.
Yes, people under the violence of Occupation, Settler Colonialism, and Apartheid are bound to fight back by any means possible, regardless of the difference in military capability. Israel has been the one that has prevented peace for generations. Made all the more obvious when they assassinate the principal negotiator of peace talks.
Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades. This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice. - The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948: - Plan Dalet - Declassified Massacres of 1948 - Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) . Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967: - Haaretz, Forward While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements - (Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ). The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians. > The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal. - m.btselem.org/settler_violence
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4ff554fe-39d5-4e28-8fc3-3f5cd63ff2d7.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5c14d34f-caa0-49da-aee9-e40eaa305b2a.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ef099eb0-8541-499e-b155-2a52cd5ff074.png">
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe One State Solutio
If you engage in genocidal acts like what occurred on October 7, whatever justification for it is moot. The world cannot allow for genocide to be a successful tactic.
Stop trying to rationalize genocide, ok? It’s an evil way to think about things. Hamas cannot be allowed to achieve any kind of success after what they did. Otherwise others will try the same. In fact Hezbollah was planning something similar to October 7 just from the propaganda successes Hamas achieved. Is that what you wanted?
You’re being downvoted on every post you do about this topic, you’ve been here for a year and you know that pretty much nobody agrees with you. I’m really wondering what’s your agenda.
Thanks for noticing!
Also the things I’m saying is consistent with what a majority of people outside of this little echo chamber think. This group you’re in is going descending in a downward spiral of hatred. People in the same hatred spiral you’re in have already committed violent acts, and more have attempted violence. This hatred of Israel will not lead to anything positive. Nothing good for the Palestinian people will come from this hatred.
I see photos of Gaza and I see a lot of similarity with the photos of German cities at the end of WWII. Germans were so indoctrinated in the politics of hatred (the same politics people here are engaging in) that the refused to accept defeat even when it was obvious to anyone. So they fought to the bitter end for the politics they were too indoctrinated in to accept reality and it destroyed their country.
Unlike the German people, I fear that because of outside pressure Palestinians may not be able to escape the politics of hatred even after they’ve experienced the destruction it lead to. Too much outside pressure on Palestinians (primarily from Iran, but you can see it even in the rhetoric here) to continue dying for the interests of others rather than negotiating with Israel to get as much as they can for themselves.
The real tragedy of this is that even if there was a ceasefire agreement tomorrow, a conflict similar to this will probably happen again for the next generation. It won’t be because of people like me that call for Hamas to surrender. It’ll be because of the people like you that “disagree with me” who push for Arabs to continue dying to serve the interests of Iranians.
Someone has to tell the truth around here, no matter how unpopular it may be.
Yeah not gonna read that
Yeah reading is hard. But if you put in some effort, I’m sure you can get better at it.
the countires those soldiers are from should bring in some jets and take care of that problem. Putitng up with being shot by far right wing fascists is some shameful bullshit.
I don’t think anyone on the UN is ready to declare war on the United States, no matter how much we deserve it.
oh how nice it would be to see the world unite as one just to take us (the USA) down a peg. I feel like russia and china are really dropping the ball lately
oh, wait lol theyre also run by egomaniacal baffoons :shrug:
That’s not how our wars are fought now. We are already in a war with China over the global economy. We are so dependent on them that they could cripple us at the snap of a finger.
Go gander around your home and look at the labels on all of your products, even the ones designed in the US were made in China (your phone and computer)
Fact is Israel will only stop when they are made to stop. They will keep pushing it farther and farther until they fuck up and mess with someone able to hurt them bad. Until then they are untouchable and it might be a long time. But Israel has already doomed its own long-term existence, they’re just too dumb to see it.
My money is on them pulling a military stunt, accidental or not involving Turkye and then finding out. Turkye has the means to make them shit their breaches and there’s no way in hell the US is doing anything militarily against them and risking loosing a key member of NATO to Russia. If Turkye closes the Bosphorus, the Bosphorus stays closed and nobody has the means to forcibly open it short of using nukes.
“Sorry Captain, it was dark and in that angle he looked so much like an hospital”