Kamala Harris was asked her toughest questions on Gaza yet (www.motherjones.com)
from jeffw@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 01:14
https://lemmy.world/post/19893167

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MediaBiasFactChecker@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 01:15 next collapse
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https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-gaza-questions/

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goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org on 18 Sep 01:50 next collapse

“You’ve gotten a lot of credit for emphasizing the humanity of Palestinians. But what I often hear from folks is that there is no policy change that either you or President Biden said you would do. Is there a policy change as president that you would do in our helping of Israel in this war?”

“We need to get this deal done,” Harris replied, “and we need to get it done immediately. And that is my position. And that is my policy.”

Daniels followed up. “But in the way that we send weapons and the way we interact as their ally, are there specific policy changes?”

Harris said that she was “entirely supportive” of the Biden administration’s decision to pause a shipment of weapons. She then quickly turned back to a need for a ceasefire agreement.

The line of questioning was the toughest Harris has faced on the issue, which remains a source of deep frustration among some Democratic voters over what they see as the party’s effort to push Gaza into the margins of political discourse. Harris’ answers on Tuesday, which relied heavily on boilerplate campaign points, are unlikely to quell that criticism.

Sorry how are those hard questions? Or just a sign of how little the press asks about it?

MashedHobbits@lemy.lol on 18 Sep 08:22 next collapse

Well it’s obviously hard for Kamala or else she wouldn’t have weaseled around answering the question.

Notyou@sopuli.xyz on 19 Sep 17:29 next collapse

For current news, those were hard questions. I think just not accepting what the candidate says as facts and following up with detailed questions equals “hard questions” now.

Look how the news is treating Trumps mental decline compared to when his opponent was Biden.

scarabic@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 23:43 next collapse

“Toughest yet” doesn’t necessarily mean objectively very tough.

nieminen@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 12:15 collapse

I’d like someone to ask them their thoughts on the recent evidence that Israel was selling the weapons we’ve given them to Russia. So in a way, we’re supporting Russia in their invasion of Ukraine at the same time we’re supporting a genocide.

swordgeek@lemmy.ca on 18 Sep 02:47 next collapse

Is Trump getting the same questions?

Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de on 18 Sep 03:13 next collapse

No point in asking him. He will call them sexy and claim Martians are taking yellow jobs.

disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 03:16 next collapse

Does it matter? His answer would be a ten minute stream of consciousness rant about immigrants, Dr. Hannibal Lecter, and some “very smart people” anyway.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 05:25 next collapse

while kamala is getting hit on this issue, it’s important for people to keep in mind (or learn if they didn’t know) that Trump has historically been a fanatic supporter of israel and netanyahu. way beyond any other president, D or R.

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:04 next collapse

The biggest military aid happened during obama.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:05 collapse

that’s not true. see the very first charts here and here.

also, Trump didn’t HAVE to send much aid to israel because 2017-2020 just happened to be a relatively peaceful time with israel/palestine, unlike Obama’s and Biden’s terms.

Trump:

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:12 collapse

This is exactly what i said trump is honest and vocal about his support to israel. Biden and harris talk about ceasefire but always blame hamas for not happening despite proof that israel is the one refusing and refuse to stop arming israel fully to create pressure. Trump moved the embassy to jerusalem but biden didn’t reverse it and harris won’t do it either

NevermindNoMind@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 23:21 next collapse

That’s generally true, and if I’m going to be stuck with an American government excusing Israels war crimes, it might as well be one that protects abortion, but there is a big stupid “but” to go with that. Trump hates bibi. Not because of any considered foreign policy thing, but because Trump is mad bibi called biden to congratulate him on winning the election. Trump never has forgiven bibi for this, and has been criticizing bibi on the trail because of it. Our politics are fucked, I guess is what I’m trying to say.

pyre@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 10:03 collapse

the moving of the embassy was pretty much a greenlight for them to openly do genocide.

swordgeek@lemmy.ca on 18 Sep 05:48 collapse

It ABSOLUTELY matters that Trump is put on the same playing field and under the same scrutiny as Harris!!!

That’s all. It doesn’t matter what their respective positions are. It doesn’t matter that Trump will give a rambling, incoherent answer and support Israel even if they declare babies as food.

It matters that Trump is held to the same scrutiny as Harris, simple as that.

Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc on 18 Sep 04:35 next collapse

Do you want a 2k words essay without actually answering the question?

Deceptichum@quokk.au on 18 Sep 04:43 next collapse

Let’s hold ourselves to the same standards As Trump!

Do you people not know what a race to the bottom is? Because you’re in one.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 05:18 collapse

their point was, let’s hold trump to the same standards as everyone else.

Deceptichum@quokk.au on 18 Sep 08:06 collapse

We do.

It’s his supporters that don’t and they aren’t here on Lemmy so who do you think they’re talking to there?

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 09:16 next collapse

Do we? Because I haven’t heard Trump being asked this question.

AbidanYre@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 12:11 collapse

Trump couldn’t answer a question about his favorite flavor of milkshake.

mirror.co.uk/…/donald-trump-moans-hes-never-22877…

Good luck getting anything out of him about this.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 12:31 collapse

But then isn’t not asking him because you know you won’t get a straight answer holding him to a different standard? Because that’s the whole issue here.

AbidanYre@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 13:47 collapse

I’m mostly just joining the pile-on that Trump is an idiot.

It would be great if he were held to any kind of standards, but the time for that was 8-10 years ago. I’m not sure how we get there now.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 13:52 collapse

Oh I don’t think he will be, but he should be.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:46 collapse

lemmy is not the point. clearly the top comment was asking if trump was getting asked these same questions in general, not comments on lemmy.

scarabic@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 23:03 next collapse

Would you seriously want to hear the drivel answers?

Moneo@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 19:55 collapse

Is Trump the sitting vice president of a country facilitating a genocide?

nieminen@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 12:10 collapse

Somewhat bad faith, VP has almost no real power or influence on these masters. With both as potential POTUS’, they should both be held to the same standard by the press.

Deceptichum@quokk.au on 18 Sep 04:49 next collapse

Words cannot express what a disappointment Kamala has turned out to be.

Another cut from the same genocidal cloth.

Akasazh@feddit.nl on 18 Sep 10:27 next collapse

I disappointment suggests you had hope in the first place. I doubt that

Deceptichum@quokk.au on 18 Sep 10:31 collapse

I did actually, I thought she might be better than Biden. I even stopped speaking critically of her for the other shit I’m not a fan of (ex. her law enforcement career).

I can bite my tongue for somethings, but not when it comes to genocide. There’s no middle ground to be met on.

Akasazh@feddit.nl on 18 Sep 10:39 collapse

Well I’m blissfully unaware of the stranglehold that the Jewish lobby has in American politics. But it seems that there no chance of getting elected when pissing them off.

I’m in favor of actions instead of words. Trump showed us he’s deep on Bibi’s cock. I hope that securing the election victory maar remove that stranglehold.

Urist@lemmy.ml on 18 Sep 15:49 collapse

Let us not confuse Zionisim with the Jewish religion, please.

Akasazh@feddit.nl on 18 Sep 16:09 next collapse

I agree, though it’s hard to define s clear dividing line.

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 19 Sep 02:08 collapse

Let’s not dismiss the horrors of abrahamic faiths either

Urist@lemmy.ml on 19 Sep 05:39 collapse

I can do one without doing the other. I am an atheist and do not care for religion at all. However, that does not mean I blame Jews for something another group, the Zionists, think and do. Sure there is an overlap and corrolation, but the same is also very much true for the US Christian nut jobs along with others.

If you are going to label people and reject them on the basis of their label, make sure to label them right.

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 18 Sep 11:34 collapse

Zoom out, look at the bigger picture beyond your single issue

Deceptichum@quokk.au on 18 Sep 13:25 collapse

The single issue is called genocide.

It is not negotiable.

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 18 Sep 15:31 next collapse

Everyone says that about their single issue.

I agree it’s important but other things also exist.

Maalus@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 18:05 collapse

Oh yeah “shut up about your single issue where people are dying because I don’t like their tax proposal”. Fuck anyone who openly supports genocide like this.

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 19 Sep 21:29 collapse

Acknowledging other political issues exist and are at play in this election != supporting genocide and the comparison is fucking stupid.

Maalus@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 21:51 collapse

“in this election” dude this election has been happening since 67’ and even before that. The cognitive disonance simply makes you revert to tribal politics and “my side being the only choice uga buga”. You are supporting genocide by voting for a candidate that will support genocide and won’t do anything about it, or worse will put their hand to it by exporting even more weapons to Israel. That’s their policy - that nothing will change. They will “call for a two state solution” when people in Gaza are being displaced, killed in the thousands, their houses and hospitals being bombed regularly.

This is exactly your doing. You don’t get a pass because “the other tribe is worse uga buga”

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 19 Sep 22:03 collapse

I don’t think Harris has a good stance on Gaza. You’re berating the wrong person.

I do think Harris has the best chance to improve the life of myself and my family.

Both of these ideas can exist. Confusing, I know.

Like you realize your particular style of rhetoric here doesn’t help anyone and just makes you look like a prick, right?

Maalus@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 22:36 collapse

Who am I supposed to help? Explain that to me. You are going to vote for someone who enables genocide. I don’t want to help you do that. That’s on your conscience - explain it to yourself however you want if you can’t live with the truth

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 19 Sep 22:49 collapse

Guess you’re in the same position as me, you can’t do anything to help.

You’re going to contribute to an outright fascist that wants to turn Gaza into a parking lot.

Live with that however you want 🤷‍♂️ Only difference is I’m not being a dick to you about it

Maalus@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 07:50 collapse

Lmao you don’t know me or what I do and what I don’t do. Don’t assume shit about people you don’t know

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 20 Sep 11:20 collapse

gestures broadly to previous comments

So you support genocide?

Maalus@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 13:19 collapse

I literally told you to not assume shit about people and there you go instantly assuming shit about people.

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 20 Sep 16:29 collapse

You don’t see the irony here do you?

Maalus@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 17:21 collapse

There is no irony to be seen. You support a genocide enabler. End of story. I won’t be replying to you anymore since you think you somehow have a moral highground when you are part of the problem.

TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee on 20 Sep 19:09 collapse

I don’t think I have any kind of high ground. I do think you’re a bit of an idiot.

[deleted] on 19 Sep 09:23 collapse
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sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 09:05 next collapse

I’m still wondering when Americans will finally wake up and realise how absolutely fucked their entire system is. You are being forced to pick between a genocidal bastard or fascist wannabe-dictator for the highest seat of government.

You guys really need to get together and just dismantle the entire thing. It was a good try but it’s fucked. Start again.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 09:18 next collapse

Gotta tell you, that wannabe dictator would be even more genocidal. The dude was so fanatically pro-Israel in the debate that he accused Harris of being the cause of its destruction within two years if she is elected. He has not called for any sort of cease-fire. He has not criticized arms shipments to Israel and never called for them to be paused.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 09:23 next collapse

Right, but you must realise if I asked you to choose between getting your hand amputated or your arm amputated, for no reason, the correct answer isn’t your hand, it’s to refuse to allow unnecessary amputations to continue.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 09:25 next collapse

And how would you propose we do such a thing? Because if “just overthrow the government” was that easy, Donald Trump would be president right now.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 09:26 collapse

Step one is admitting there’s a problem.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 09:44 collapse

Lots of people admit there’s a problem. That doesn’t answer my question.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:00 collapse

If you don’t admit that there’s a problem, then answering your question would be a waste of time, because you would, most likely, just be looking for something to argue with me about, rather than considering my points in good faith.

If you’re happy to start the conversation from a place where you admit that, yes, the US political system is so rigged that it is impossible to meaningfully reform, then I’m happy to answer your question.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:13 collapse

Sure, there’s a problem. Now please answer my question.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:37 next collapse

The next thing you have to do is get people talking about it and admitting that there is a problem, build connections with them, and help protect and inoculate people against far-right radicalisation. This is best done in your local community, it doesn’t really work very well online, unfortunately. Build a people-centred movement based on solidarity, mutual aid/support, and collaboration. Work on building alternative structures such as co-operatives, fully mutual groups/societies, and helping people to organise their workplaces and form or join unions.

It’s all about building solidarity, connections, helping people break free of the mind prison they were born into, and making sure that they don’t get radicalised by the far-right in the process, because their messaging is designed to appeal to people who realise how fucked our system is and promises easy “solutions”, rather than the hard work it takes to actually solve the problem.

Once enough people are actively aware of the problem and working to build that solidarity, we can start actually something about it. By that point, you should really be working together to solve the problems which affect your community directly.

Hope this helps, though I’m sure none of it really comes as a surprise!

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:38 next collapse

That’s a long-winded way of saying you don’t actually have an answer for how to, as you put it, “refuse to allow unnecessary amputations to continue.” You could have saved yourself a lot of time.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:46 collapse

If you don’t admit that there’s a problem, then answering your question would be a waste of time, because you would, most likely, just be looking for something to argue with me about, rather than considering my points in good faith.

Wow, my prediction came true. Truly, I am a fortune teller.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:49 collapse

Immediately after you told that so-called fortune:

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4388daf5-862b-4e94-90fd-0efeb79197be.png">

So why are you now lying and claiming I didn’t admit there’s a problem? It’s a pretty silly lie.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:55 collapse

Truly, I’m sorry for letting you down, I really hope you come around eventually. Remember, solidarity is the key. Together we can change the world.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:00 collapse

You didn’t let me down, because I knew you didn’t actually have an answer about how to actually achieve anything.

If “solidarity” and “awareness” were all it took to solve problems, climate change wouldn’t be getting worse.

You know what awareness and solidarity already resulted in? January 6th. You know what was a failure? January 6th.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:11 collapse

I let you down by failing to convince you, though I’m sure you don’t see it that way.

Solidarity, awareness and collaboration are the prerequisite conditions for building a working class movement capable of achieving widespread change. That isn’t where the process ends, obviously, action needs to be taken once that movement exists.

I’m not sure what your point is about January 6th.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:13 collapse

You failed to convince me by not telling me what the next step would be.

Lots of large-scale solidarity movements in history have been built and failed. Sometimes disastrously so. You do not have the step after that, which is essential.

My point about January 6th is that it was a large-scale solidarity movement that tried to effect major change in terms of how presidents become presidents and failed. You seem to think everyone getting together and singing kumbaya would achieve for the left what they were unable to do when they actively tried.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:27 collapse

I have a proposal for what I would suggest our next step should be once we get to that position, and I’d be happy to share it with someone who is genuinely interested. But you have to realise and accept that it goes against my ideology for me to act as if I have all of the answers. My entire belief system is that we can work together to find a solution, collectively, for what we should do next. If I assume I know everything and that we should all just do what I say, I would be no better than those I oppose.

I’m not going to defend Jan 6 for obvious reasons. There are plenty of left-wing solidarity movements we could talk about instead - Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street, Defund the Police, the CHAZ. I would agree that none of those projects really achieved their ultimate goals, but they did somewhat progress them.

Things fail until they succeed. I’m sure you wouldn’t have scolded the Wright brothers for continuing to try to build a flying machine despite prior failures.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:30 next collapse

What a bullshit cop-out. I have asked you multiple times what the next step is and you’re now claiming I’m not interested?

That’s two lies you’ve told about me now. That is coming close to trolling.

[deleted] on 18 Sep 11:34 collapse
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Big_Boss_77@lemmynsfw.com on 18 Sep 14:03 collapse
AbidanYre@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 12:06 collapse

That’s going to take years, if not decades. Your amputation is in less than two months.

Wappen@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:40 collapse

Easier said than done:

  1. Admit there’s a problem
  2. Find a sustainable solution
  3. Fight for the solution
  4. Enjoy a better society

I think many people don’t realize they focus too much on short-term issues, which are actually symptoms of deeper systemic problems. For instance, the two-party system in the US stems from election campaigns not being publicly funded and also the “winner-takes-all” electoral system instead of proportional representation. I would bet you already know about these issues but still I don’t see them being discussed in media and that’s where every big change must begin. And that’s also what I think should answer your question. Instead of spreading awareness of the current problems at hand, you should focus on the deep issues and instead spread awareness of them. That’s my opinion at least.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:42 collapse

Nothing I do will have any effect on what the corporate-run media reports on and it’s naive to think any of us who aren’t corporate executives or their political cronies have that power.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 12:04 collapse

“no reason”? if the alternative to a hand or arm amputation is death, yeah, i’m gonna choose a hand amputation.

that’s what our alternative is in your analogy. remember the US is highly polarized right now, so one (sane) group taking over the US govt is likely impossible, and even if successful would end up in a massive civil war. that would not only destroy life in the US for the foreseeable future, but the entire global economy and geopolitical equilibrium.

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:02 collapse

Stop shifting the blame, currently trump is not in power. So the people in power has all the blame they should get right now. Trump is just more honest but in reality both will do their best to defend israel

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:13 next collapse

Harris is not in power either. She does not set or implement policy. You do know what the powers of the Vice President are, yes?

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:20 collapse

Are you telling me thst a vice president which one of it’s function is to be advisor to the president shouldn’t have part of the responsability?

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:21 next collapse

Not unless you know what she’s advised him of, no. Or are you under the impression that he has to do what people who advise him say?

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:27 collapse

If the government support a genocidal terrorist state then anybody in the government has the responsibility to resign

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:32 collapse

Okay, well that’s not going to happen. So the choice is going to be Trump or Harris and to suggest that we can’t know where Trump stands on Israel compared to Harris is either dishonest or highly ignorant.

The fact is that both of them are on the wrong side of this genocide, so they have to be chosen by other criteria. “Just don’t vote for either of them” is not an answer. That’s also not going to happen for most voters.

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:57 collapse

Actions don’t reflect what biden and his administration says they just more hypocritical about palestine. I don’t believe in the two lesser of evil when it comes to palestine. Major changes don’t happen overnight, and things don’t change when people say it’s futile and will never happen. With a similar mentality of we shouldn’t vote for a third option, countries like india wouldn’t get rid of british after 200 years and 100 millions dead indian

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:59 collapse

How about when it comes to literally every other thing in this election? Like persecution of queer people or deportation of migrants or just whether or not someone is going to be a dictator?

Literally none of that matters? Fuck it? Let the queer people and Latinos get marched into camps because there’s no difference between them on Israel?

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:14 collapse

I specifically talked about gaza, you guys always like to deviate

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:19 collapse

And I’m specifically saying their positions on Gaza are not really relevant to the election since they’re both on Israel’s side. You don’t seem to agree, so explain to me which one has the position I should favor on the matter.

small44@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:32 collapse

The party with people best interest which i think it’s neither democrats or republicans and again the thread was about gaza so i don’t understand how it’s relevent to the topic and i don’t understand why most try to just deviate from harris critisism.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:34 collapse

The thread was about Gaza in relation to the election. See the “Kamala Harris” part.

And the fact is that the winner in November will either be a Democrat or a Republican. Voting for anyone else is absolutely useless. You might as well not vote.

I plan to vote, and not for the guy who has a good chance of putting my queer daughter in a concentration camp.

njm1314@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 17:59 collapse

That’s not one of the functions of the vice president actually.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:50 next collapse

blame is irrelevant. what is relevant is choosing who you think will handle it best (or less bad) in the next 4 years. if you think that’s trump, you’re delusional. if you think trump would have handled the last 11 months better, you’re delusional.

irreticent@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 07:48 collapse

Trump is just more honest

…seriously?

TheFriar@lemm.ee on 18 Sep 10:43 next collapse

…we do understand. But solving it isn’t exactly easy. Why don’t we just dismantle a world superpower with the biggest military in the world and a massive landmass and a spread out populace? Oh, why didn’t we think of that.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 10:50 collapse

If people actually accepted the reality of the situation, truly, in their hearts, they wouldn’t find all of these excuses for it. Look at the replies, literally the first one is just “well, trump is worse, so we have to support Kamala”. You, as an individual, understand it when you think logically, but as a collective, the American people aren’t ready to admit that their elections are completely rigged.

WaxedWookie@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:10 next collapse

Hold up - you don’t have a solution, but you’ll criticise people for doing what they can to keep the fascists out of power?

I agree with what you’re saying broadly, but if you’re going to wax ideological while you let the fascists win, you can fuck all the way off.

sandbox@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:16 collapse

I haven’t really criticised anyone for voting for Harris, I absolutely agree that given the situation that you’re in, it’s the right thing to do, no doubt.

My point is that there are so many people who don’t accept that Kamala Harris is a fucking terrible person and in a real democracy she wouldn’t have a chance of getting elected.

You’re in this horrible position where in order to do the right thing you’re forced into supporting a genocide. You have to accept that is what you’re doing, do it anyways, and then do everything you can to bring the system down to stop it from ever happening again.

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 12:11 collapse

you’re completely ignoring that a large portion of our populace are racist rednecks who fanatically support a guy like trump. it’s not just a systemic issue, we are a highly polarized nation and overthrowing the government won’t change that, it’ll only make it worse.

jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:57 collapse

“Trump is worse” sounds like a false dichotomy, but it isn’t. First past the post voting mathematically forces a two party system given enough election cycles.

This video shows how: youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo

So until Americans can have a vote that’s a list instead of a checkmark, the choices really are genocide and super genocide. It’s horrific and so much of it stems from something so innocent.

fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc on 18 Sep 12:12 collapse

There are certainly criticisms to be made but “dismantling the entire thing” is not the way.

Maggoty@lemmy.world on 18 Sep 11:05 next collapse

Consensus candidate gives consensus answer on question that can only hurt her with the election weeks away.

That’s all there is to it. This is just not something we’re going to see her real thoughts on until after the election.

scarabic@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 23:45 next collapse

You have to wonder if these folks have their own thoughts about it. Or if their thoughts are entirely about what our thoughts are, and how our thoughts about them will be affected by their thoughts about what our thoughts are.

Maggoty@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 00:06 collapse

If your talking about politicians then they certainly do. But their actions on something are generally colored by more than their own thoughts. Every successful politician masters the art of not giving answers that can only hurt them. One of the ways you can tell something has shifted is when they suddenly become very specific. Like when Biden was trying to drum up support after his debate. We suddenly got some really specific policy proposals.

Keeponstalin@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 01:02 next collapse

The US is currently aiding and abetting Israel’s genocide. If the Democrats switch course, like many Democratic voters want, it would significantly improve Harris’ support nationally, especially in swing states. The majority of voters, and a vast majority of Democratic voters, want a change in policy on Israel. Harris pivoting from Biden on this issue would significantly help her, not hurt her, when it comes to voters and voter turnout

Amnesty

> In a new research briefing submitted to the U.S. government today as part of the National Security Memorandum on Safeguards and Accountability with Respect to Transferred Defense Articles and Defense Services (NSM-20) process, Amnesty International USA details civilian deaths and injuries with U.S.-made weapons, as well as other cases that highlight an overall pattern of unlawful attacks by Israeli forces. The briefing also details practices by Israeli forces inconsistent with best practices for mitigating civilian harm and provides clear examples of the misuse of defense articles, the commission of torture, and the use of unlawful lethal force. Lastly, the briefing also details the denial of humanitarian assistance to the civilian population of Gaza. > “It’s shocking that the Biden administration continues to hold that the government of Israel is not violating international humanitarian law with U.S.-provided weapons when our research shows otherwise and international law experts disagree,” said Amanda Klasing, National Director for Government Relations with Amnesty International USA. “The International Court of Justice found the risk of genocide in Gaza is plausible and ordered provisional measures. President Biden must end U.S. complicity with the government of Israel’s grave violations of international law and immediately suspend the transfer of weapons to the government of Israel.” > “The evidence is clear and overwhelming: the government of Israel is using U.S.-made weapons in violation of international humanitarian and human rights law, and in a manner that is inconsistent with U.S. law and policy, said Klasing. “In order to follow U.S. laws and policies, the United States must immediately suspend any transfer of arms to the government of Israel.”

Polls:

forrcaho@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 02:47 next collapse

I haven’t checked the veracity of reports like this, but I’ve heard this and it makes me think her vagueness has got to do with $$$, not votes.

Keeponstalin@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 02:59 collapse

Unfortunately, I think you’re right. As wrong as that is. Nothing makes my skin crawl like profiting off a genocide

Maggoty@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 06:39 collapse

This took like 2 days to blow up. Wow. At any rate here’s some points.

A. Harris isn’t the one sending weapons. The VP in the US is largely powerless unless the President gives them something to do. Interestingly there’s a possibility her remarks earlier this year were meant to put pressure on Biden. (the ones where she seemed almost to take the Palestinians side) But it could also have been stuff she was sent to say to try and calm tensions.

B. The polling data supports her messaging strategy. At this point she is clearly courting conservatives who don’t like Trump. So her messaging strategy of, need a ceasefire/Israel has a right, is meant to not rock the boat.

This is why I call her a consensus candidate. I know that term gets used a lot to tar the democratic nominee the primary selects, but she is literally a consensus candidate. Blue dogs and moderates agreed to back her without a primary. She and her campaign team obviously believe she will lose more votes than she gains if she breaks that messaging line. The polling you supplied supports that younger and more left democrats want to see movement. But it doesn’t support that swing state voters won’t vote for her. The part that’s worst is that in Pennsylvania the line dips precipitously on exactly what they feel they need. This is why the White House has weekly messaging on having a cease fire and why they always blame Hamas for it failing. That’s the big thing people want.

For what it’s worth I want to see that movement too. I just don’t expect anything until after the election unless something big changes again. You’d think an American citizen being killed by a called shot while unarmed would do it but apparently not.

Edit to add, I forgot to add the reason PA is so important is up until a couple weeks ago it was the only state that mattered. Trump was seen as having sewn up enough other states that he only needed PA to win. So that has highly influenced the race. In a nutshell it doesn’t matter what the uncommitted movement in the Rust Belt says because without PA they don’t even get counted. Now of course the race has opened up but there’s no telling if that’s because of her strategy or if it was always going to open up.

Keeponstalin@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 20:08 collapse

Harris has not deviated her position compared to Biden’s current policy and I absolutely disagree with how you interpreted those polls. I think it’s much more about the sentiment of the donors than the voters that are influencing Harris’s position on this. I also stand on the notion that trying to court Republican voters by running away from the progressive base of the Democratic voters, is a bad idea politically and morally. That said, I do respect your opinion, Maggoty

I’ll edit this with info from the polls if I have time later

Maggoty@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 21:10 collapse

Oh the donors are certainly part of it. I don’t want to discount that. It’s just hard for me to write long form and get everything in. Her messaging trajectory though has been interesting. She did actually diverge this past spring, very softly. But over the summer as calls for Biden to step down intensified she started toeing the line.

ikidd@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 02:36 collapse

Oh, I think we know what those thoughts are going to be.

Maggoty@lemmy.world on 20 Sep 06:54 collapse

I don’t care to go back and find all the transcripts but the way she’s talked about it does make me think she’s better than Biden. I don’t think she’s going to abandon Israel as an ally or anything but I do think she’ll force the proper distribution of aid and put a stop to settlers in the West Bank and Gaza. Biden is on track to watch as the Israelis run over all of Palestine in the next few years.

BadlyTimedLuck@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 00:05 collapse

Call me insensitive, but shouldn’t we be more worried about the terrorists on our home soil before fighting foreign lands. As in, every idiot who thought Jan 6 was a good idea. Because I can already picture the unhappy voters reaction whether Dems or MAGA wins.

2 have been fired at Trump, and they’re investigating for Kamala.

And the worst part is: I STILL don’t know who the bad guy is. Israel? Palestine? How should I know, I can barely process the legislation and corruption that was alllowed to pass on our home soil.

Anyway I hope to become more informed on this issue now, seeing as our leader HAS to know a solution. Even though one candidate shouldn’t even be able to walk freely. And I hope everyone else does as well

Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee on 19 Sep 09:44 next collapse

We can do both

Israel, Israel is the bad guy… Any country/person/company supporting Israel is the bad guy.

Typotyper@sh.itjust.works on 19 Sep 10:04 collapse

So raiding and taking civilians hostage is ok…even good. Holding the hostages for months is ok. Hiding them throughout your population is good. Exposing that population to attack and risk is good.

Israel is 100% wrong in the West Bank but responsibility in Gaza is a moot point.

[deleted] on 19 Sep 10:41 collapse
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HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world on 19 Sep 22:49 collapse

You’re misunderstanding the situation.

We’re not asking Kamala to get involved in a foreign war. We’re asking Kamala to end the US’s involvement in a foreign war.

I know it’s confusing, because Biden and Harris keep talking as if they’re doing all they can to stop the fighting. But the truth is, Biden and Harris are the ones providing the weapons.

but shouldn’t we be more worried about the terrorists on our home soil before fighting foreign lands

Probably, which is why Harris should stop giving weapons and billions of dollars of war funding to Israel.

And the worst part is: I STILL don’t know who the bad guy is. Israel? Palestine?

Again, I understand your confusion, because Biden and Harris keep talking about the need to protect Israel. But Israel is the one carrying out a genocide of innocent civilians (with US support).