rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 15:50
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a remote and uninhabited island located 400 miles from Honolulu
Mokumanamana sits at the boundary between “‘pō,’ the darkness, and ‘au,’ the light.” When a Native Hawaiian dies, their soul travels up near Mokumanamana, and after meeting their ancestors there, they potentially get to advance into the great beyond with them in the dark waters west of the island.
okey-doke.
So, uninhabited (at this point means not viable for habitation) and it’s a religious site that probably no one goes on a pilgrimage to? Fuckit.
edit: so the people using the downvote button as a disagree button:
What’s the problem? If we are going to do this space shit we need places to drop the litter, what’s wrong with this place? Is it just because it’s Musk and Trump? I’m no fan of either but wouldn’t it be better to have this SpaceX trash out in the Pacific instead of off the coast of South Texas where millions of US and Mexican citizens live?
Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org
on 20 Jul 16:17
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Nobody feels like having a debate about your militant atheism, hence downvotes without comments. Please don’t see this as an invitation for said debate either. I don’t care. You’re either being intentionally edgy or willfully ignorant, neither of which are the base for a fruitful conversation.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 16:28
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Cool, obscure religion over people.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
on 20 Jul 17:44
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Billionaire toys ≠ people
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 18:20
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Well then shut the whole thing down.
curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 20 Jul 19:16
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Ideally, yes.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 19:20
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ruining earth does not justify the shit missions spacex does making our orbits more hostile to real science
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 19:35
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I’m unaware, AFAIK SpaceX is the leading launch provider in the world, taking the place of NASA. Is that a good thing? Probably not but if we’re not going to fund it at a government level someone has to do it.
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world
on 21 Jul 02:21
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Space X has received over $20 billion of funding from the us federal government. We are funding at a government level.
curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 20 Jul 19:34
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i believe this is what they’re referring to. it’s specifically an atheist take; it’s just not a very nice one
i generally have disdain for religious crap, but do agree that simply writing people beliefs off as open for dumping waste on is probably not in the spirit of live and let live
I don’t understand where atheism came into this discussion. Is that just your pet issue you bring up all the time?
Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org
on 21 Jul 15:25
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I don’t understand where atheism came into this discussion
Get your eyes checked. If you can read the text and didn’t see where this was gonna go then there’s no point trying to explain it to you.
borth@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 16:51
nextcollapse
Maybe the down votes are because not even 2 paragraphs from the one you quoted, they continue saying that they also have permission to drop debris all around the inhabitated islands.
Along with allowing Musk to rain schrapnel down near Mokumanamana, the FAA also granted SpaceX the ability to do so around Hawaii’s eight main islands — which are populated with American citizens who may end up having their houses or property hit by debris — and portions of the Papahānaumokuākea marine national monument, a UNESCO world heritage site that’s home to thousands of diverse species of animal and plant life.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 16:55
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bbbut the historical site! They are dropping it over the Gulf of Mexico right now so why shouldn’t we move the debris field? Is there really a bigger problem doing it here or is it because Hawaiians are just pissed off they will be the recipients now?
the indigenous people have been heavily colonized. being a us state does not preclude you from some rich fuck showing up and ruining the ecosystem you maintain
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 20:18
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Are they Americans or not? I know that’s a loaded question but we have to dump space trash somewhere if we are going to continue launching. We’re not allowed to dump the trash in international waters AFAIK so we have to pick somewhere in our borders.
Gulf of Mexico or The Pacific. Pick one.
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world
on 21 Jul 02:27
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Why not the Hamptons or Atherton?
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jul 02:37
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I think it’s too far from the equator or some shit.
you already dismissed this in another thread, but seriously, we don’t need spacex poluting our oceans and orbits like this. just because nasa isn’t doing launches isn’t reason to give a corporation carte blanche to do whatever in the name of “progress” while stymying real science. we could do, as a planet, with fewer launches than are being done and taking a longer view of science and research than quarterly profits.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jul 04:50
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WTF. I want NASA back, I hate SpaceX. They suck. So what do we do?
start getting critical. have conversations with our neighbors to shift what’s possible. organize ourselves in the streets because the streets is where we win. refuse to accept that this is just the way things must be
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jul 16:16
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cool story bro. I’m getting old and I’m very tired.
same here all around. but if my octogenerian neighbors can take the time to demand that my great grand children i’ll never meet have a planet worth living on, then i can do the same for the next generations, too. it doesn’t have to be an all consuming fight, it’s a marathon not a sprint, afterall. but that marathon starts with setting a goal, and one of those goals should be a planet where a long term view of resource management is taken. just accepting “it has to be somewhere” ignores the truth that it doesn’t need to be at all. that people’s ancestral lands matter. that clean oceans and ecosystems matter. destroying something in the name of progress isn’t progress.
it doesn’t have to be much. it starts with saying your local community should be cleaner, and that it shouldn’t just dump its waste in another community. we all live together, ultimately.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jul 17:28
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we both are. but you have to think global and act local. our power is in our ability to convince the people around us that there’s something wrong with the way things are and something to be done about it. so it starts with county politics, state politics, national politics, and then global. movements take years and they always start with shifting what’s possible
For what it’s worth, I agree with you 100%. I’d love to see Musk fail in every one of his business endeavors, but if we’re going to drop space garbage over the planet, an uninhabited island seems like a great place to do it. The fact that a small group of people has superstitious ideas about that small patch of land should be irrelevant.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 20 Jul 19:24
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Yeah, lemmy seems to love religion as long as it’s not white or Catholic.
this attitude is the problem with religion though. it’s not that the religion isn’t guided by science, but the idea that one groups needs supercede another group’s. the hawaiians are the native keepers of this ecosystem. for thousands of years they have been there maintaining it. now because another group wants it for something else we’re just supposed to ignore them? fuck that. this is the same attitude that gave us the crusades, the rape of africa, the potato famine, and boarding schools for indigenous people in north america. it doesn’t matter that those acts were done by people who claimed to have god on their side and you claim there is no god.
what matters is those acts were done by people claiming to be more advanced than the backwards people they were doing it to, which is exactly what you are advocating for here
Uninhabited islands are not uninhabitable and the only value of a place is not whether people can live on it. The northwestern Hawaiian islands are a marine sanctuary valued even though barely anyone goes there. This argument is like saying the deep Everglades are unexploited, so we might as well dump our trash there.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jul 16:18
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What the fuck? They are literally dumping this shit in the Gulf of Mexico RIGHT NOW.
Why is this shitty little island out in the middle of nowhere a problem?!
You are steadfastly dedicated to not getting the point while simultaneously whining about downvotes. Have an angry day where you think everyone else is the problem.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Jul 00:57
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Yeah, that’s what I’m worried about.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND?
Capybara_mdp@reddthat.com
on 22 Jul 01:25
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Okay, so let’s put it this way. If the federal govt decided that people could take dumps in Your grandparents garage without asking, you would protest right? And if they said “well, your grandparents don’t live in The house so it shouldn’t be a problem”- it’d be a problem right?
And then someone posts the article on here and someone types out a defense “yeah but it’s a garage, its uninhabitable” and then later “WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND?” …. You’re getting this right?
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Jul 01:26
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Cool. Who’s garage do we shit in then?
Because if we’re going to shit in a garage we need a garage to shit in. So is that garage in South Texas or out in The Pacific?
basically, no one has stated why this place is not a good place but the Gulf of Mexico is what we’re using now so… just keep using it?
The Gulf of Mexico is also a bad place, but unfortunately it wasn’t a marine monument and the residents there didn’t fight to protect it. We in Hawaii care about this island because it’s our responsibility and all of our islands are interconnected. You don’t seem to know shit about the area or that scientists don’t view SpaceX’s reckless R&D as an unabashed good and then go up on your soapbox to act like you in your ignorance are the only rational mind.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Jul 17:48
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You are the first person to articulate WHY you don’t want it there, no one else has bothered.
What’s the deal with this patch of ocean? Is it special in some other way than NIMBY cloaked in religion?
The religious significance of an uninhabited island seems like a nothingburger compared to this:
Along with allowing Musk to rain schrapnel down near Mokumanamana, the FAA also granted SpaceX the ability to do so around Hawaii’s eight main islands — which are populated with American citizens
They mention that because people in the US are stupid enough to not understand that residents of Puerto Rico, Guam, Hawaii, and some other places are US citizens.
WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org
on 20 Jul 17:48
nextcollapse
Cool. America is trying to create more terrorists.
tramping religious rights of locals is fine, but don’t you dare to touch christianity. Christian churches get tax exemptions etc. I’m an atheist but this is a glaring discriminatiin. You either disregard all religions or tiptoe around all of them there’s nothing in between
Learning how under god was added in the 1950s was what made me finally start to question the Republican indoctrination my parents were under the spell of.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world
on 20 Jul 19:58
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it’s time to accept that America is a Christian nation. it shouldn’t be, but we’re already getting Christian sharia laws, like women should be forced to give birth even if they die, or if the fetus is non viable.
Destroying and damaging a religion’s sacred holy areas is not a really violation of the religious rights. However telling Catholic priests they should tell on pedophiles now that that’s violating religious rights.
KonalaKoala@lemmy.world
on 20 Jul 19:49
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I think the Pelekais will want to file a countersuit against the U.S. Government in response to this, and try to force an impeachment vote in the House of Representations against Donald Trump.
Kurious84@eviltoast.org
on 20 Jul 21:12
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He’s a defiler. POS Star links are everywhere in the sky polluting the sky with streaks and dots for anyone interested in astronomy.
humorlessrepost@lemmy.world
on 21 Jul 01:43
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He’s a defiler.
That’s why you can’t let Zerg get to late game. Guessing he’s going defiler/hydra/lurker? Sounds like we need firebats so we can still do damage under dark swarm. He might counter with scourge/guardians so watch for a greater spire for a good attack timing.
Yeah right?? It’s so crazy how many satellites there are nowadays.
We used to play with my friends when we were younger to spot them. Now it’s harder not to see one.
And the sad part is it’s going to get much worse probably.
johnwicksdog@aussie.zone
on 21 Jul 10:14
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Same here, I would rarely see a satellite and mostly only during dusk. Two nights ago I was participating in a star gazing activity as par of a birthday party and it’s busy up there now
suburban_hillbilly@lemmy.ml
on 21 Jul 11:08
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Well, I mean after the US annexed Hawaii by overthrowing their king and writing a special “it’s OK when we do it” law, doesn’t that mean they can do whatever they want?
We have black widows. But the real curse a Hawaii resident would send to someone is the giant centipede. They’re mean and painful. Both of those species are introduced though.
threaded - newest
okey-doke.
So, uninhabited (at this point means not viable for habitation) and it’s a religious site that probably no one goes on a pilgrimage to? Fuckit.
edit: so the people using the downvote button as a disagree button:
What’s the problem? If we are going to do this space shit we need places to drop the litter, what’s wrong with this place? Is it just because it’s Musk and Trump? I’m no fan of either but wouldn’t it be better to have this SpaceX trash out in the Pacific instead of off the coast of South Texas where millions of US and Mexican citizens live?
Nobody feels like having a debate about your militant atheism, hence downvotes without comments. Please don’t see this as an invitation for said debate either. I don’t care. You’re either being intentionally edgy or willfully ignorant, neither of which are the base for a fruitful conversation.
Cool, obscure religion over people.
Billionaire toys ≠ people
Well then shut the whole thing down.
Ideally, yes.
No more satellites? No more space missions?
ruining earth does not justify the shit missions spacex does making our orbits more hostile to real science
I’m unaware, AFAIK SpaceX is the leading launch provider in the world, taking the place of NASA. Is that a good thing? Probably not but if we’re not going to fund it at a government level someone has to do it.
Space X has received over $20 billion of funding from the us federal government. We are funding at a government level.
By spacex?
Yes. No more from them.
Wait, what am I being ignorant about?
edit: alas, I must remain ignorant as my opp will not tell me what I don’t know.
Doesn’t sound like you did a great deal of research.
lol no. I read this article.
WTF? The guy is a dick for sure but leave atheists out of it. This term is just the go-to term for extremist religious asshats
i believe this is what they’re referring to. it’s specifically an atheist take; it’s just not a very nice one
i generally have disdain for religious crap, but do agree that simply writing people beliefs off as open for dumping waste on is probably not in the spirit of live and let live
I don’t understand where atheism came into this discussion. Is that just your pet issue you bring up all the time?
Get your eyes checked. If you can read the text and didn’t see where this was gonna go then there’s no point trying to explain it to you.
Maybe the down votes are because not even 2 paragraphs from the one you quoted, they continue saying that they also have permission to drop debris all around the inhabitated islands.
bbbut the historical site! They are dropping it over the Gulf of Mexico right now so why shouldn’t we move the debris field? Is there really a bigger problem doing it here or is it because Hawaiians are just pissed off they will be the recipients now?
“let’s just do some more colonialism! it will be fine”
You mean colonize Hawaii, a US state? How in the fuck do you even think this?
the indigenous people have been heavily colonized. being a us state does not preclude you from some rich fuck showing up and ruining the ecosystem you maintain
Are they Americans or not? I know that’s a loaded question but we have to dump space trash somewhere if we are going to continue launching. We’re not allowed to dump the trash in international waters AFAIK so we have to pick somewhere in our borders.
Gulf of Mexico or The Pacific. Pick one.
Why not the Hamptons or Atherton?
I think it’s too far from the equator or some shit.
you already dismissed this in another thread, but seriously, we don’t need spacex poluting our oceans and orbits like this. just because nasa isn’t doing launches isn’t reason to give a corporation carte blanche to do whatever in the name of “progress” while stymying real science. we could do, as a planet, with fewer launches than are being done and taking a longer view of science and research than quarterly profits.
WTF. I want NASA back, I hate SpaceX. They suck. So what do we do?
start getting critical. have conversations with our neighbors to shift what’s possible. organize ourselves in the streets because the streets is where we win. refuse to accept that this is just the way things must be
cool story bro. I’m getting old and I’m very tired.
same here all around. but if my octogenerian neighbors can take the time to demand that my great grand children i’ll never meet have a planet worth living on, then i can do the same for the next generations, too. it doesn’t have to be an all consuming fight, it’s a marathon not a sprint, afterall. but that marathon starts with setting a goal, and one of those goals should be a planet where a long term view of resource management is taken. just accepting “it has to be somewhere” ignores the truth that it doesn’t need to be at all. that people’s ancestral lands matter. that clean oceans and ecosystems matter. destroying something in the name of progress isn’t progress.
it doesn’t have to be much. it starts with saying your local community should be cleaner, and that it shouldn’t just dump its waste in another community. we all live together, ultimately.
Which community though? Are we not all Americans?
we both are. but you have to think global and act local. our power is in our ability to convince the people around us that there’s something wrong with the way things are and something to be done about it. so it starts with county politics, state politics, national politics, and then global. movements take years and they always start with shifting what’s possible
For what it’s worth, I agree with you 100%. I’d love to see Musk fail in every one of his business endeavors, but if we’re going to drop space garbage over the planet, an uninhabited island seems like a great place to do it. The fact that a small group of people has superstitious ideas about that small patch of land should be irrelevant.
Yeah, lemmy seems to love religion as long as it’s not white or Catholic.
I suspect it's more because of Elon Musk hate.
I suspect people would also be upset if Dumbo McNazi got a government contract to destroy a 500 year old cathedral to put up a nazi truck factory.
this attitude is the problem with religion though. it’s not that the religion isn’t guided by science, but the idea that one groups needs supercede another group’s. the hawaiians are the native keepers of this ecosystem. for thousands of years they have been there maintaining it. now because another group wants it for something else we’re just supposed to ignore them? fuck that. this is the same attitude that gave us the crusades, the rape of africa, the potato famine, and boarding schools for indigenous people in north america. it doesn’t matter that those acts were done by people who claimed to have god on their side and you claim there is no god.
what matters is those acts were done by people claiming to be more advanced than the backwards people they were doing it to, which is exactly what you are advocating for here
Uninhabited islands are not uninhabitable and the only value of a place is not whether people can live on it. The northwestern Hawaiian islands are a marine sanctuary valued even though barely anyone goes there. This argument is like saying the deep Everglades are unexploited, so we might as well dump our trash there.
What the fuck? They are literally dumping this shit in the Gulf of Mexico RIGHT NOW.
Why is this shitty little island out in the middle of nowhere a problem?!
You are steadfastly dedicated to not getting the point while simultaneously whining about downvotes. Have an angry day where you think everyone else is the problem.
Yeah, that’s what I’m worried about.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND?
Okay, so let’s put it this way. If the federal govt decided that people could take dumps in Your grandparents garage without asking, you would protest right? And if they said “well, your grandparents don’t live in The house so it shouldn’t be a problem”- it’d be a problem right? And then someone posts the article on here and someone types out a defense “yeah but it’s a garage, its uninhabitable” and then later “WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND?” …. You’re getting this right?
Cool. Who’s garage do we shit in then?
Because if we’re going to shit in a garage we need a garage to shit in. So is that garage in South Texas or out in The Pacific?
basically, no one has stated why this place is not a good place but the Gulf of Mexico is what we’re using now so… just keep using it?
The Gulf of Mexico is also a bad place, but unfortunately it wasn’t a marine monument and the residents there didn’t fight to protect it. We in Hawaii care about this island because it’s our responsibility and all of our islands are interconnected. You don’t seem to know shit about the area or that scientists don’t view SpaceX’s reckless R&D as an unabashed good and then go up on your soapbox to act like you in your ignorance are the only rational mind.
You are the first person to articulate WHY you don’t want it there, no one else has bothered.
What’s the deal with this patch of ocean? Is it special in some other way than NIMBY cloaked in religion?
The religious significance of an uninhabited island seems like a nothingburger compared to this:
Ah, but those Americans are mostly Democrats so they aren’t really Americans and are gonna lose their citizenship and be deported soon anyway. /S
lol why did they emphasize that they are American citizens? So if these were non-Americans it would be fine I guess.
It’s not about Americans, it’s about humans. I’m just quoting the article directly.
You joke, but this is how a lot of people actually think. It’s fucking gross.
They mention that because people in the US are stupid enough to not understand that residents of Puerto Rico, Guam, Hawaii, and some other places are US citizens.
Cool. America is trying to create more terrorists.
tramping religious rights of locals is fine, but don’t you dare to touch christianity. Christian churches get tax exemptions etc. I’m an atheist but this is a glaring discriminatiin. You either disregard all religions or tiptoe around all of them there’s nothing in between
Buuttt its won na†ion udder gawdℹ️ dat meens da gauze my speeceefec demonination ass aye understand heam‼️
[/s]
Learning how under god was added in the 1950s was what made me finally start to question the Republican indoctrination my parents were under the spell of.
it’s time to accept that America is a Christian nation. it shouldn’t be, but we’re already getting Christian sharia laws, like women should be forced to give birth even if they die, or if the fetus is non viable.
there will be more sharia coming soon.
we should call those laws like that.
wait who doesn’t think that america is a Christian nation
Christianity is literally intertwined with like every visible level of the american government
It shouldn’t, it’s meant to be a secular democracy.
However, it is clearly a Christian theocratic state.
Americans who read the constitution.
That was done in the 50’s by Republicans. Democrats lack the guts to fight back against it.
Destroying and damaging a religion’s sacred holy areas is not a really violation of the religious rights. However telling Catholic priests they should tell on pedophiles now that that’s violating religious rights.
I think the Pelekais will want to file a countersuit against the U.S. Government in response to this, and try to force an impeachment vote in the House of Representations against Donald Trump.
He’s a defiler. POS Star links are everywhere in the sky polluting the sky with streaks and dots for anyone interested in astronomy.
That’s why you can’t let Zerg get to late game. Guessing he’s going defiler/hydra/lurker? Sounds like we need firebats so we can still do damage under dark swarm. He might counter with scourge/guardians so watch for a greater spire for a good attack timing.
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/f55945c2-3f33-43bd-b129-abf5e8968a33.gif">
The guy carrying tanks of napalm smoking a cigarette always gets to me 😁
Need a light?
What the deuce?
They must not have had Brady Bunch reruns in South Africa?
I’m just glad I’m not the only one here old enough to remember that episode. Or, three-parter to be precise.
A few days ago I was watching stars with a friend and every few minutes we would see satellite after satellite. Yeah that was distracting.
Their future e-waste is now part of the view, just gotta accept it and hope the billboards up there aren’t developed in our lifetime.
Not much remains of them upon reentry. At least nothing that can be called e-waste.
they just aerosolize creating even faster global warming
Wouldn’t high-altitude metallic aerosols do the opposite?
unfortunately no. per my understanding the problem with starlink satellites burning up on re-entry are two fold:
Dang, that sucks XD
Should have made their frames with zinc alloy instead!
I thought Kessler-syndrome was the real kicker, not greenhouse gasses.
LEO items can’t Kessler. They can barely keep themselves from falling back through the atmosphere.
That’s the company line, but they’re finding big pieces in fields in Canada.
Yeah right?? It’s so crazy how many satellites there are nowadays.
We used to play with my friends when we were younger to spot them. Now it’s harder not to see one.
And the sad part is it’s going to get much worse probably.
Same here, I would rarely see a satellite and mostly only during dusk. Two nights ago I was participating in a star gazing activity as par of a birthday party and it’s busy up there now
That’s mostly musk too: phys.org/…/2025-07-satellite-constellations-brigh…
That’s no surprise, the only thing Trump considers sacred is Trump.
Well, I mean after the US annexed Hawaii by overthrowing their king and writing a special “it’s OK when we do it” law, doesn’t that mean they can do whatever they want?
Better not mess with sacred stuff in Hawaii. You could wake up with a tarantula crawling on your chest.
There do not appear to be large spiders in Hawaii.
nice one
seriously, though, sailors took over rats and they killed all the birds and lots of the arthropods.
We have black widows. But the real curse a Hawaii resident would send to someone is the giant centipede. They’re mean and painful. Both of those species are introduced though.
Fine then you’ll wipe out while surfing or your housekeeper will throw her back out during hula lessons.
Hawaiian people should be in turn given a permission to explode some rockets over White House.
I hereby give them permission.
Broooo, who cares lol
People who aren’t pieces of shit
Bro, shut the fuck up
Demolish it
Demolish it
Should ask Texas residents living next to Starbase how that’s working out for them. I can sum it up, it’s not. You get what you voted for!
Hawaii didn’t vote for this.
The unfortunate fallout of 75 million fucking idiots’ decision. I hope Hawaii finds a way to slap that rocket back to Texas.
He’s wearing a hat on a hat.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d208995a-bd72-406b-9796-0610b4968e8d.png">
He’s probably off his tits.