mister_monster@monero.town
on 17 May 2024 06:57
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Lol don’t you love it.
Peru does something to force healthcare providers to cover transgender procedures and treatments, people are outraged that it’s been labelled an illness. You can’t make this stuff up.
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works
on 17 May 2024 08:06
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I’m not sure that’s what the criticism is about. The law references ego-dystonic sexual orientation as one of the “mental illnesses” it covers. From Wikipedia (edits mine):
Ego-dystonic sexual orientation is a highly controversial mental health diagnosis that was included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) from 1980 to 1987 and in the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) from 1990 to 2019. Individuals could be diagnosed with ego-dystonic sexual orientation if their sexual orientation or attractions were at odds with their idealized self-image. It describes a conflict between the sexual orientation a person wishes to have and their actual sexual orientation.
The addition constituted a political compromise between those who believed that homosexuality was a pathological condition and those who believed it was a normal variant of sexuality. Under pressure from mounting scientific evidence that the desire to be heterosexual is a common phase in a gay, lesbian, or bisexual person’s identity development rather than a mental illness, the diagnosis was removed. Leading up to the ICD-11, a WHO-appointed working group recommended its deletion, due to a lack of clinical utility and the potential for negative consequences. The ICD-11 does not include any diagnostic categories that can be applied to people on the basis of sexual orientation, bringing the ICD in line with the DSM-5.
The current manuals for mental disorders (ICD-11, DSM-5) already include diagnostic categories that can be used as a basis for providing healthcare to LGBTIQ+ people (e g., gender dysphoria). The criticism of the Peruvian law is that it is based on outdated categories that regard the actual sexual identities and orientations as a whole as “mental illnesses” (rather than the affective and emotional issues that LGBTIQ+ are vulnerable to), which has no clinical value and is extremely prone to being used to discriminate against LGBTIQ+ people.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 17 May 2024 10:56
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If the only way to help transgendered people is to call them mentally ill, maybe there’s a bigger problem you’re missing.
mister_monster@monero.town
on 18 May 2024 00:54
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Yeah, the problem is “do no harm”. To modify your body, a medical professional needs to be fixing something, i.e. you have an illness that needs treatment.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 18 May 2024 09:28
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So… you are under the bizarre (and very wrong) impression that doctors in other countries only give gender-affirming care to people they have determined have an illness?
Because, as I said, you are very wrong.
OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
on 18 May 2024 11:36
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Bro forgot about the entire practice of plastic surgery.
mister_monster@monero.town
on 18 May 2024 17:26
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Are you saying gender affirming care is elective?
OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
on 18 May 2024 18:21
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No, just responding to this bit
To modify your body, a medical professional needs to be fixing something,
llamajester421@kbin.social
on 18 May 2024 19:48
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FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 18 May 2024 22:46
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Fine. Then Peru should do that.
SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
on 18 May 2024 12:58
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The way other countries do it is by considering “gender dysphoria” an illness. This way, you aren’t ill for being trans, but you can absolutely feel sick if you’re trans but cannot transition, so the cure for gender dysphoria is to facilitate medical transitioning.
llamajester421@kbin.social
on 18 May 2024 19:51
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captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 17 May 2024 10:31
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Listen, it’s one kind of wrong to declare trans and nonbinary people as mentally ill, but like i really don’t see how my mental health impacts the genital structure I was born with
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 17 May 2024 11:36
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It only impacts it if you know it’s wrong and you can’t let the world know that your genitals don’t match your gender.
Like keeping any other huge secret would impact your mental health.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 17 May 2024 13:32
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Oh yeah, but that’s like saying that having been to war is a mental disorder. Like as someone both trans and intersex, the former is an acknowledgment of an inner truth where all expressions of it are filtered through the brain at some point, but the latter idk what to tell people it’s like having a sixth toe (in the condition I’m thinking of of mine). You may not like it, and people may try to “fix” it or make me feel bad about it, but it was just there before my bottom surgery.
In a similar vein I have a cousin with (iirc) mono X. It’s definitely had negative impacts on her life and mental health but it’s a chromosomal condition not a mental condition
midnight@kbin.social
on 17 May 2024 11:08
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I mean, I am mentally ill, but not because I'm nonbinary.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 17 May 2024 11:35
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I don’t know you, but I know for many people, coming out helps with their mental illness issues.
Unsurprisingly, the stress of hiding your true self all the time for years is not mentally healthy.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 18 May 2024 23:00
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Okay, so intersex people are mentally ill from the moment that plays out in the womb?
Is this a schrodingers mental illness, where up until the intersex is determined by an ultrasound that they are both mentally fine and mentally ill?
threaded - newest
Lol don’t you love it.
Peru does something to force healthcare providers to cover transgender procedures and treatments, people are outraged that it’s been labelled an illness. You can’t make this stuff up.
I’m not sure that’s what the criticism is about. The law references ego-dystonic sexual orientation as one of the “mental illnesses” it covers. From Wikipedia (edits mine):
The current manuals for mental disorders (ICD-11, DSM-5) already include diagnostic categories that can be used as a basis for providing healthcare to LGBTIQ+ people (e g., gender dysphoria). The criticism of the Peruvian law is that it is based on outdated categories that regard the actual sexual identities and orientations as a whole as “mental illnesses” (rather than the affective and emotional issues that LGBTIQ+ are vulnerable to), which has no clinical value and is extremely prone to being used to discriminate against LGBTIQ+ people.
If the only way to help transgendered people is to call them mentally ill, maybe there’s a bigger problem you’re missing.
Yeah, the problem is “do no harm”. To modify your body, a medical professional needs to be fixing something, i.e. you have an illness that needs treatment.
So… you are under the bizarre (and very wrong) impression that doctors in other countries only give gender-affirming care to people they have determined have an illness?
Because, as I said, you are very wrong.
Bro forgot about the entire practice of plastic surgery.
Are you saying gender affirming care is elective?
No, just responding to this bit
It is not the only way, WHO provides a code "gender incongruence" that is a condition "related to sexual health". Not a mental disorder. https://www.who.int/standards/classifications/frequently-asked-questions/gender-incongruence-and-transgender-health-in-the-icd
Fine. Then Peru should do that.
The way other countries do it is by considering “gender dysphoria” an illness. This way, you aren’t ill for being trans, but you can absolutely feel sick if you’re trans but cannot transition, so the cure for gender dysphoria is to facilitate medical transitioning.
It could pass a Gender Identity Recognition Act by self-identification. Then cover trasngender health by insurance, prohibit healthcare discrimination on grounds of gender identity, and use a modern, non-pathologizing code the one provided like ICD-11 by WHO "gender incongruence" a condition "related to sexual health". Not a mental disorder. https://www.who.int/standards/classifications/frequently-asked-questions/gender-incongruence-and-transgender-health-in-the-icd
Listen, it’s one kind of wrong to declare trans and nonbinary people as mentally ill, but like i really don’t see how my mental health impacts the genital structure I was born with
It only impacts it if you know it’s wrong and you can’t let the world know that your genitals don’t match your gender.
Like keeping any other huge secret would impact your mental health.
Oh yeah, but that’s like saying that having been to war is a mental disorder. Like as someone both trans and intersex, the former is an acknowledgment of an inner truth where all expressions of it are filtered through the brain at some point, but the latter idk what to tell people it’s like having a sixth toe (in the condition I’m thinking of of mine). You may not like it, and people may try to “fix” it or make me feel bad about it, but it was just there before my bottom surgery.
In a similar vein I have a cousin with (iirc) mono X. It’s definitely had negative impacts on her life and mental health but it’s a chromosomal condition not a mental condition
I mean, I am mentally ill, but not because I'm nonbinary.
I don’t know you, but I know for many people, coming out helps with their mental illness issues.
Unsurprisingly, the stress of hiding your true self all the time for years is not mentally healthy.
Okay, so intersex people are mentally ill from the moment that plays out in the womb?
Is this a schrodingers mental illness, where up until the intersex is determined by an ultrasound that they are both mentally fine and mentally ill?