Everyone? LOL.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6942e599-300d-45d5-9c94-5c9a65e42e51.jpeg">

Yeah, you’re right. This isn’t the only reason to “fuck Israel”. There are a lot of reasons. It’s lost the right to be a country.

In the scopes of “you’re allowed to tell about lack of food, water, bed bugs, harsh treatment and laying on the floor, but nothing about kissing the flag because then!"
I hear you mate but that’s unreasonable.
Read this critically and you will see the ragebait and narrative it tries to promote. Just such things as

They dragged little Greta (Thunberg) by her hair in front of our eyes, beat her, and forced her to kiss the Israeli flag. They did everything imaginable to her as a warning to others.
She’s still a little kid. They made her suffer

Amazing how they don’t seem to acknowledge this one while also doing lots of angry rants 🤔

I agree. I don’t think Israel has any credibility at all after these last years, but my point is regarding this article and that one should apply critical thinking to spot misinformation and propaganda, which this article most probably are.

I don’t think that is the case though. Ulf Kristersson said that those who traveled with Ship to Gaza can just about suit themselves with what happens and that they can expect no help from Sweden.
But the strongest indication is that no Swedish news has picked up on that story which most certainly be the case if it was true.

Yes but

Another detainee reportedly told another embassy that they had seen her [Thunberg] being forced to hold flags while pictures were taken

is not the same as

They dragged little Greta [Thunberg] by her hair before our eyes, beat her, and forced her to kiss the Israeli flag. They did everything imaginable to her, as a warning to others

I don’t doubt she has been forced to pose with a flag and thus ask wether those pictures has been released.

She’s Greta. She would show her bruises to make the case against Israel. She’d never be silent if it was as bad as the article claims.

There’s no assumption: it’s a known fact.

The Americans are not the reliable partner they used to be.

Thats on borrowed time. Money to isreal is one of the only issues left and right agree with. Someone is going to take advantage of that eventually and isrela is gonna get disconnected from the US teet

Uncle Sam has Congestive Heart Failure. Their position is tenuous to be generous.

They’ve deliberately attacked the American Navy before and nothing came of it.

Yeah, why would any major players care? Did they ever care for activists?

The article attributes it’s claims to credible sources. Do you have evidence to the contrary, or just believe what suits you?

There are also many like us who don’t know who she is.

I answered this in reply to another comment at greater length, but I’m describing this as a pattern of behavior that I think has already set Israel on a course for collapse in several years.

Palestinian babies

Plenty of people in The West^R^ don’t consider them worthy of empathy, but a white woman of small stature who first became famous as a child might be a different story. We need a mass worldwide cultural shift to identifying all humans as part of the in group or we aren’t going to make it through this century.

I should clarify what I mean a bit.

I’m not saying that brutalizing Greta Thunberg is the straw that is going to break the camel’s back. I’m saying that it’s an escalation of a pattern of behavior that I think is very likely leading toward a collapse of the zionist project at some point in the next decade.

The testimony of those doctors is absolutely part of the same pattern of behavior. And while a lot of folks have looked at the continuing genocide and concluded that clearly, nothing has mattered and nothing will, I believe it has, and it will.

It’s hard to describe succinctly, but Israel today is far, far, FAR weaker than Israel 5 years ago. There is an inertia that lets them feign invincibility, but the country is truly in times without precedent. The longest war since its establishment was 118 days in '82. So much of the assumptions on which Israel relies – constant readiness, bipartisan US support, the total support of Europe, constant Jewish immigration, a strong labor force, a booming tourism industry – is in shambles. Internal divisions are rending their society apart. Their economy, international influence, and social institutions are in crisis.

In this context, this continued loss of an ability or willingness to be discrete in their atrocities really does bolster my conviction that in the next five years the country is going to collapse.

Unlike many, I don’t say this lightly or with glee. I just say it because it’s what I foresee.

The beating and flag kissing is sourced to another captive, and might be exaggerated, but her general mistreatment was reported by Swedish diplomats after speaking to her. It’s pretty credible, imo.

No no no, not you! Very sorry ! I hate Israel.

So we just don’t consider anything could be true unless we know for absolute sure it is? So we shouldn’t even entertain the idea that Epstein didn’t kill himself, as well as many other things? I understand that we shouldn’t go about throwing out theories and believing them completely without some solid evidence, but I think the other extreme of “epistemic hygiene” hinders us too. Certain things could turn out to be true and us ignoring suggestions of that earlier on could mean we don’t realise later. Again I’m not saying that the possibility I bring up in my original comment is likely or anything, just it wouldn’t surprise me really. There’s so many examples in recent years of powers distracting us from the bad things they’re doing with other things

I’m not going to take political opinions from a 3 year old, which is about what I’m thinking when someone says “little kid”. Teenagers, like she was when she got famous, can have enough context about the world that their opinions, particularly about things like sustainability, equality, etc, are valid.

Thing is, the older people get, the more selfish they seem to get too. The entire world burning down in 10 years doesn’t matter if you’re 98. So more life experience isn’t automatically more credible.

I agree. There are also a lot of older people on the flotilla and Greta’s age and mannerism could easily lead someone to refer to her in this framing. There are probably people on those boats who have grandkids her age and absolutely have kids her age or older.

I feel that anyone in their 30s is a child.

You’ve only had 15 years at being an adult what would you know

Idk, to me “little kid” means “not in school yet”. It’s the “little” that makes the difference, compared to just calling someone a kid or kiddo.

Well someone who is above 40 will probably think of her as a little kid while someone who 28 for example will probably think that they are close in age. Though this doesn’t matter no one deserves to be treated like this regardless of age.

There’s 150 comments in this one post, having a couple about this one thing - which I also thought was off - is fine and good.

It’s ok for people to point out bad things in something you agree with overall.

I’m sorry, I just think that the zionist actions are bad by default but news articles shouldn’t minimize the people that defy them?

There is nothing wrong with the prisons in Estonia.

What is the point of your comment?

Yeah, like most of the .world mods.

Yeah I’ve noticed a lot of the engagement to what’s said here is similar to r/worldnews a lot of the time. There just needs to be more communities on other instances so we don’t have to deal with the enlightened centrism that dominates reddit on here too and the libs can have their own space aswell

Its funny that you think I personally care about what people generally think of my opinions.

Its terrifying that you don’t realize that anyone who downvoted that was confident the notion of me stating something that would probably eventually happen was… not likely, not the case, for some reason… but they were also too lazy to explain why they thought that.

Much better. Shitty conditions and some kind of flag parade were definitely included. The beating bit is less clear, and a bigger claim since actually producing deliberate, visible injuries would be a dangerous move on their part.

I saw that earlier and it’s really shitty that they have her in a cell that is giving her rashes (probably from bedbugs) and that they’re doing some stupid thing with flags. She did nothing wrong.

Still not the same magnitude of what is described in the X “quote” which has zero sources and no way to verify their translation, for me anyway.

The X quote which has zero source that lines up with it:

“They [Israelis] dragged little Greta [Thunberg] by her hair before our eyes, beat her, and forced her to kiss the Israeli flag. They did everything imaginable to her, as a warning to others,”

That’s not the point

Absolutely

I neither believe it nor do I believe it to be false.

Given Lemmy’s proclivity for rage jerking, and the fact Israel isn’t stupid, I do. It’s not a matter of moral capability.

—All of them, [including the] politicians, they attempted to treat us like insects and they treated everyone the same. They heavily tortured Greta before our very eyes.

—Really?

—Yes. They were very cruel to Greta. Greta is but a little child. They dragged her, made her kiss the Israeli flag. I mean, they did the same things the Nazis did.

I think the torture he’s talking about is the dragging and forcing her to kiss the flag but the reporter also seems to think a sort of harsher torture and i think that’s why he uses “being cruel” when continued.

Here’s the text if anyone wants to run it through other translation software.

—Hepsi, siyasetçisi, hepsi bize böyle böcek muamelesi yapmaya kalktılar ama herkese böyle davranıyorlar. E, Greta’ya çok ağır işkence yaptılar, gözlerimizin önünde.

—Gerçekten mi?

—Evet. Greta’ya zulmettiler. Küçücük çocuk daha Greta. Onu süründürdüler, İsrail bayrağını öptürdüler. Yani Naziler ne yaptıysa aynısını yaptılar.

Greta is a well known white European lady though, the impact this would have in the West is way higher. Whether this would have any radical effect on anything is still to be seen, though.

I dont understand how this shit gets upvoted so high…

Its the same thing maga people do: “the mainstream media is biased, so i’ll just get my news from random blogs and websites…”

lemmy has become the lefty version of this

Not all the right wing is conservative of course and you are right about it, but you are wrong about the meaning of conservative, being a conservative mean those who in politics uphold the value of tradition, oppose any progressive ideology, and aim to preserve traditional social and political structures

I prefer “reactionary,” because it accurately describes their political philosophy and tactics.

Also, it really pisses them off.

Where did i say it was okay? It is abhorrent. I said that if they were going to invent a story about her graphic torture, this abuse is comparatively minor compared with other accounts from Israeli prisons.

Of course she deserved better treatment. So did Sophie Scholl. It’s just very odd to act like this is not a believable thing that Israel, famed mass murderers of children, would do.

Israel hasn’t devolved, the state was founded on acts of colonialist genocide. This is what the state of Israel has always been.

Only because we have abdicated our power. We can take it back.

That commenter said “we”, not “I”.

Are you saying that we—collectively—don’t bear any democratic responsibility for the people that we elect to office? Or are you cynically implying that the original poster has no power over the situation?

I don’t get the sense that you’re trying to attack that person, but what do you gain from public displays of cynicism to remind people that they are powerless?

If nothing then please reconsider. 🙁

The victim plays a part in how they are treated. You can compare with walking up to an American police officer and acting all cocky. These people hate when they are not respected. If Greta was not famous, this behavior would actually be quite dangerous and she could get killed.

She is not a victim, she is an activist with a strategy here.

It’s a sad case of “hurt people hurt people”.

They literally call Palestinians (not Hamas, Palestinians) “human animals” and “vermin”, just like the NAZIs used to literally say that Jews and Roma were “subhuman” and “vermin”.

Let’s be honest, they don’t really see non Jews as people either. Zionist ideology is based on Jewish supremacy. They see Christian evangelical Americans as useful idiots. Everyone else is beneath them.

Always has been.

Maybe religions are an excuse for trying to achieve certain political goals. E.g. a Christian in the USA might say “we have to ban abortion because God says abortion is wrong”. And a settler Jew in Israel might say “we have to occupy the West Bank because God says that land belongs to Jews”. And a conservative Muslim might say “women should not be allowed to drive because God says so”.

Religion is just another excuse for violence.

The NAZIs put the Roma People in the same category as Jews - so, to be exterminated as an ethnicity (“curiously” there are no Oscar Winning films about the plight of the Roma People, nor has Germany tried to make amends with them) - and yet they tend to be Christians, same as the NAZIs.

Ethno-Fascists regimes are dominated by Psychopaths and Sociopaths, and these people don’t care about Religion beyond it’s immense utility as a tool to manipulate other people.

Everything else is just busywork, but It’s always been about control and violence.

Ironically, Zionism is an ideology founded by atheist Jews

At this point in time everything Israel and Netanyahu do is sus, so ‘waiting for the facts’ is just an excuse to do nothing.

Agreed, or at least wait for Greta to tell us herself.

You completely misunderstood my point or have lead clogging your ears.

How many facts are enough facts? Mm? All the facts? Not a single fact missing, not a single rock left unturned before reaching a conclusion?

At what angle does the sun have to reach before you conclude it’s daytime? Do you need it to reach its peak, at noon, and feel the warmth on your skin? Does it need to completely dip below the horizon for you to concede a day has passed? Of course, at that point you’ll surely say, “Ah ha! See! The sun is no longer in the sky and so it is not daytime!”

It seems that you believe conclusions only arrive from deduction. That’s a cowardly way of rolling about in this world, since all your conclusions must be guaranteed rather than reasoned through logical inference.

“Sensible”—ha! Thinking by “sense” alone squanders the powers of reason wherein conclusions may be formed at the risk of not yet being fully grounded in immediate observation, which is how I can confidently infer—despite the thorough stone turning upon which you’d undoubtedly insist—that you are not a sex-haver.

This is OLD news, their genociding has been going-on for years, now.

euromedmonitor.org/…/Euro-Med-Monitor:-Israel’s-b…

“comically”, the Jewish book of Jeremiah, & the Jewish book of Isaiah, both speak of Israel turning anti-God, & then getting G-D’s wrath torching it…

IF that biblical-rule still holds, THEN Netanyahu’s “Israel” is getting torched, soon.

Simply wait & see: if that torching does happen, then their God made it happen, according to their scripture, right?

Here’s facts, for the ideological to ignore/deny: statista.com/…/palestinian-territories-israel-num…

Israeli identity is rooted on genociding/exterminating multiple-nations, thousands of years ago:

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+… orders the EXTERMINATION of 6 nations, & another of their books identifies that it was 7 exterminations, not 6, they were to enforce.

Genociding/exterminating/holocausting isn’t a new behavior for Israel.

Doing it in the name of “zionism” is new, but genociding isn’t new.

I’d never have guessed this, having grown-up in 2 religions: medical-science & Catholicism,

but the book “The Alphabet Versus the Goddess” by Leonard Shlain identified that the original holocausting was done by the Jews, & I went & checked in the bible, & yep… there it was…

what Shlain didn’t notice, probably because of being Jewish, was that the Catholic Inquisitors were Latin-educated, which also corroborates his point that getting populations to be left-hemisphere-dominant forces ideological-rabies…

What is the root-cause, though? Want experience-induced-undersanding which vastens one’s mind?

Work-through, not-merely-read, it is the DOing which produces the experience-of-sentience-transformation, Betty Edwards’ “Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, the 4th, Definitive Edition”, but use charcoals, which makes it much easier to experience the hemisphere-dominance-shift…

See this gallery?

www.drawright.com/before-after

That SHOWS the difference-in-MIND of hemisphere-dominance-shift: it is EVIDENCE.

Being an autistic blockhead, it took me 3y, not 5d, to experience that shift, because fighting the woodenness-of-my-brain made me want to scream…

Anyways, all who pretend that “there is no evidence for hemisphere-dominance-shift”, are people who won’t do the experiment, so … they can shove their ideology … wherever their egos are, to keep their egos company.

: p

Ideology, specifically symbol-anchored ideology, is prone to rabies/genociding, exactly as Shlain identified, throughout human history.

R-Mind isn’t prone to rabies/genociding.

Exactly as Marshall McLuhan, the ultra-genius who forsaw telework around 1953, it isn’t possible for people who grew-up literate to understand what illiterate-culture’s story-river sentience is, or means…

His stupendous insight is embodied in “The Medium Is The mAssage”, strange-capitalization is mine, but the spelling is his!

The medium of electric-technology, as he called it, is modular, & it forms minds into modularity!

The medium of story-river isn’t modular, & forms minds into holding-onto eternal story-river, because that’s their greatest treasure: it is who they are that they are holding-onto!

There’s no way to imagine being in sooo-different a kind of sentience.

Precisely the same impossibility-of-understanding-the-difference is true, with hemisphere-dominance-shift: it isn’t possible to imagine within-1-sentience-kind, what any other-sentience-kind means/is/feels-like!

Hofstadter’s “Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid” was also on this single point, from a totally-different angle:

Formal-systems, ideologies, prejudices, & “religions”, all are AXIOM-BASED knowing: and evidence is powerless to falsify them!

One has to choose between 2 mutually exclusive knowing-paradigms: self-consistency/axiom-based, … XOR … completeness/universe-centered.

Godel’s Theorem of Incompleteness mathematically proved that self-consistency CANNOT be complete-knowing of universe!

Don’t hold your breath, facts are what they feed the media, why do you think something like the feddi verse has to exist…you should see the cess pool of mainstream social media at any giventime…you’d be surprised how this human race is still even here and didn’t wipe each other out

I’m never going to say don’t wait for facts.

But the issue is that “the facts” can take years to assertain… Sometimes there’s a lot of damage that can be done.

It’s a delicate balance. People weaponize “wait for the facts” to just delay and dull the impact. Like most things, it’s not black and white.

I don’t think saying “most” is the best application here.

Funny how people did the exact same thing regarding the concentration camps the Nazis operated. People chose not to believe the reports they heard from the inside regarding the horrendous and deadly conditions. They “waited for the facts” which of course did not come out until after several years of grinding gruelling war, and well after the final solution began and the gas chambers were operational.

There’s evidence enough as it all stands right now to know that Greta is being tortured and abused, and her human rights violated, as we know so many Palestinians have already been for decades and continue to be every day. Hell, the Israeli officials are constantly publicly bragging about the violations of human rights and international law they’re committing, so maybe even listen to them when they do so?

Well yeah, but we’ve got plenty of facts already. Decades of facts, in fact.

It’s like climate change. Yes, we’re constantly learning new things, but the fact that we are in crisis is not disputable.

We have more than enough facts to condemn and convict Israel and Netanyahu of crimes against humanity.

Not if Israel is not allowing in journalists. Every testimony against Israel is 100% true because they refuse to let people check.

You’ll never act when you need to if that’s your bar to action.

Lol, you’re just too illiterate to want to read anything longer than two sentences long.

Lazy fuck.

I dont have words for how stupid your take is. Like I can’t think of a way to describe it you, because this is so intellectually shallow that it would take to long to even get you to understand that two things can be true at the same time.

Oh man I’m sure Israeli forces would never do any of that!

Wait no that’s apparently standard practices for the most moral army in the world

news.un.org/en/story/2025/03/1161081

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn7vje365rno

Where’s your evidence of Hamas’s attrocities ??

Although I disagree, my point was more so a rhetorical one about the cynical/skeptical people chiming in to assert an absurdly high bar for people to clear in order for any concern about the current state of affairs in Israel to merit attention.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

Because it’s a warzone and not a safe place for civilians. They’ve made efforts to get civilians out of areas where there’s heavy fighting to parts of Gaza where food and aid can be distributed. There’s plenty of food and aid, the problem isn’t lack of aid, the problem is distributing it in the middle of a war. This is exceedingly difficult because of Hamas Nakba propaganda threats of violence to prevent civilians from leaving areas where there’s heavy fighting. Obviously Hamas wouldn’t survive very long if they didn’t have their human shields. You could walk from on end of the Gaza strip to the other in about 8 hours, so why is it a problem for civilians to get out of the parts of Gaza where there’s heavy fighting? Because nothing is easy in a war.

So no it’s not “let’s just rock up to Gaza with a bunch of food, problem solved!” It’s a war, you’re either going to be adding more food to a pile in a place where people aren’t going to get it, or there’s a high probability you’ll be killed because you’re in a place where there’s heavy fighting going on. This isn’t CoD game where devs made it impossible to kill civilians unless you install an “I’m an evil monster” mod that allows you to do so. Bullets, shells, missiles, drones going every which way. Bullet from an IDF misses it’s target it might hit you and you’re dead. Also a bullet from Hamas might miss it’s target and hit you and you’re dead. Hamas dresses like civilians (except when there’s a ceasefire, then they have no problem finding their uniforms) so an 18 year old in a firefight might think you’re the Hamas guy that was just shooting at him and you’re dead because you happened to be wearing the same clothes as a Hamas guy. This is a war against Hamas, an adversary that will use your death to further their propaganda, so they aren’t going to keep you safe (more the opposite) in the places they operate and those are the places where the food is needed.

So yeah, it was a propaganda mission designed to get everyone detained by the IDF so they could produce more propaganda. It was never about getting food to Palestinians.

Why would you think Israel would want there to be more civilians in a warzone? Why would you want more civilians in a warzone? There’s a lot of ghouls that actually want Greta Thunberg to get killed by the IDF since it would be a big boost to their propaganda. Are you one of these ghouls?

Unfortunately we have seen many instances throughout history of ethno-religious supremacist ideology, specifically around abrahamic beliefs. Would removing such belief systems from society remove all hate and violence, of course not. But I’d argue that we would be in a better place as a society. Maybe if we weren’t trying to prove whose god was more right or whose belief was more righteous we could have a more just, loving, and peaceful society.

Im not a fan of religion but there are certainly some that dont have a track record of harm and seem to bring great solace to practitioners

If you are being stupid then ya, she knows she will get arrested. She is a rich white girl that’s why why is doing shit like this otherwise she would have been shot long ago.

How? You’re wrong entirely. It’s a numbers game. Always has been. Their algorithm only tries to suppress it. It can’t stop it. Right now the architecture works in our favor it just takes numbers. Which is why they invested so much in making leftist retreat and delete their accounts. It’s why you said what you just said. They don’t want you showing up with numbers like we use to. This is a game of repetition. People are influenced and change opinion only when they are faced with an overwhelming number of that one opinion every day. So they convinced us to remove ourselves and not fight back.

There is good reason Israel is buying TikTok and trying to censor people from seeing this type of content.

Are they wrong? Want to look at the general comment section of any post online outside of lemmy?