Onyxonblack@lemmy.zip
on 04 Jan 19:55
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It’s the United Snake
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 04 Jan 20:54
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The AfD is on the way to run the show, like many far right factions in many nation states of Europe.
The only way to stop tyranny is to stand up to it, and angry lemmy posts won’t do that. The danger is always much closer than the “foreigners” so many xenophobes like to point out.
Once tyranny is in power the resistance needs support, not condemnation. I thought this was known 80 years ago, apparently not so much today.
Such bullshit. They are tiny parties that very few agree with that are being supported by the US in the name of “free speech”, so just fuck right off with that and stop believing what you read on X
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 05 Jan 16:19
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To say they are a “tiny party” is nuts. It doesn’t matter if an ultra minority support them, because a sizable portion vote for them.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 04 Jan 21:13
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The exceptions make the rule, Donald Trump alone did this bypassing all safeguards the USA put in place to prevent this sort of thing.
Eldritch@piefed.world
on 04 Jan 22:05
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Republicans could have held him responsible at any time. Republicans could have blocked any of this at any point. Trump alone was a narcicistic fool with fragile masculinity. Republicans made him the threat he is. Far too many Democrats failed to take things seriously too.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 04 Jan 22:37
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Democrats had no power to do anything about this because the DNC haven’t had more than 48 senators in the last 13 years.
Republicans are all bad and all complicit, with that I agree, but I would easily say Donald Trump is the worst of them and anybody else in the party would be a lesser evil than him.
Right, yet many like Fetterman etc were confirming his goons etc. They still bear responsibility, even if it’s less. They failed to treat the situation with the appropriate respect and responses that it deserved. Instead, behaving like everything was still normal. which is still fucked up at best.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 00:18
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Fetterman is a brain-damaged moron who can’t be recalled. When every single DNC, Independent, and 3 Republicans voted against Pete Hegseth, he was confirmed anyways. If the DNC held a real majority then he would not have been, nor would several Trump SCOTUS picks, that’s exactly what I’m talking about.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 05 Jan 07:41
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you would still run into DINOs like SCHUMER, slotkin, and 10+others.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 08:59
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Those dusty bastards can’t compromise if there is nothing to compromise on, DNC having the members to write, call to vote, and pass legislature would be a night and day difference.
The reason they don’t hold a majority is exactly because they refuse to take anything seriously. Much less the desires of the voters. And it wasn’t just Fetterman he and Shaheen were definitely the worst. Hassan, Kelly, Tim fucking Kane the former VP nominee, Gilibrand, Klobuchar, Peters, Slotkin, Warnock, Hickenlooper, goddamned Corey Booker!? Yes they voted against the worst of the worst. They just voted for the worst and got nothing but shame to show for it.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 17:46
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Pretty sure its because they attempted but failed to ban money from congress after the 2010 SCOTUS decision and have been fighting the combined PR strength of monied interests, Russia, China, and Racism.
The DNC want to forgive student debt, tax the rich, expand medical to everyone, and generally be better people in terms of foreign policy.
And? I mean, yeah. They did attempt those things, which was good. Would have been better if they had accomplished any of them. But that’s not at all the reason voters didn’t vote for them.
Voters didn’t vote for them because no one who had Biden’s ear. Got through to him till far too late for any sort of primary to run. Then they dumped the wet rag known as Kamala on us. Who continued to fail to inspire or listen to anyone on anything, especially regarding Palestine.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 18:32
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They accomplished some of them when they had power, over 13 years ago.
I’m honestly not sure if you’re trolling or just incredibly ignorant about US American history. America is constantly invading other countries, inciting and supporting coups, stealing resources, murdering civilians. It’s just what they do, have done historically, and will continue to do
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 01:18
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Alright but so did the Vikings and the Spartans but we don’t refer to it as a Viking Empire or the Spartan Empire because that’s not what the word means. Making an Empire means claiming territories as your own and colonizing foreign lands.
EDIT: Had my comment threads mixed up earlier. Not going to fix it.
TBH if congress were aware of the operation in Venezuela I would probably be happy about it, fuck Maduro and every other anti-democracy bastard.
So just like the dems only upset that our president attacked a sovereign nation, took their leader and now claims ownership of, because he didn’t let the dems give him pre approval.
Again only upset at the illegal act of not notifying congress beforehand.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 02:19
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Trump might claim ownership, but nothing has actually been done to enforce it. Rubio says he’s expecting Maduro’s people, VP Delcy Rodriguez, to start playing ball as they are now in charge. Hell, they apparently didn’t even try to inform Gonzalez or Machado beforehand to install one of them.
According to the pentagon, for what little their word is worth, there are no US Troops left in Venezuela.
So it would be better if he had put a terrible person who wants to sell off her countries assets?
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 03:25
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I’m not sure how you’re confused about what my stance is, I’ve been very concise, consistent, and vocal about my beliefs.
What Trump did is illegal and wrong and he should be removed and punished.
Also, it’s a good thing that Maduro got taken out, fuck that guy.
If DNC were in charge then none of this shit would be happening and the world would be a better place. Calling for the destruction of the USA is a foolish simpleton ideal that will cause more death and suffering.
TBH if congress were aware of the operation in Venezuela I would probably be happy about it, fuck Maduro and every other anti-democracy bastard.
You just don’t like having your beliefs shown to you.
DNC were in charge then none of this shit would be happening and the world would be a better place
Again just like when Iran was attacked they were only upset they didn’t get to vote yes not that the attacks happened
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 18:03
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Yeah, Iranian leaders and soldiers are human bags of shit and it is Congress’ sole responsibility to use as much force as they deem necessary for a better future.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 18:36
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First of all, the fuck does that have to do with crimes that Trump did?
Secondly, there are fights I would be willing to fight on the frontline, such as fighting against Russia or China. Every inch we let them take now is a mile we have to defend later.
Yeah, Iranian leaders and soldiers are human bags of shit and it is Congress’ sole responsibility to use as much force as they deem necessary for a better future.
Idk how else you take it as approval to kill civilians like what happened in Iran.
Secondly, there are fights I would be willing to fight on the frontline, such as fighting against Russia or China. Every inch we let them take now is a mile we have to defend later
Oh so you do want to go join soliders to kill civilians
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 18:44
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Was this Iran attack you’re referencing an approved act of war by congress? If yes, that’s fine, if not, that was illegal. It’s not rocket science, you should be able to figure this out.
Soldiers and Politicians are not Civilians. If China, Russia, and Iranian aggression sparks a war then they’re as much to blame for the consequences. Fuck Around, Find Out.
Yes quoting you claiming the opposite of what you send.
And I it’s you being rhetorical but would. It be surprised if you were feeding babies to wolves to help dnc
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 22:21
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I’ve never contradicted what I said, you repeatedly claim I would condone violence done to civilians when I’ve repeatedly specifiec soldiers and politicians of the hostile regimes.
It be surprised if you were feeding babies to wolves to help dnc
See? Look, right there, you’re belittling me for not sacrificing babies like you do. Why do you do this thing? Who are you praying to with these infanticides?
Was this Iran attack you’re referencing an approved act of war by congress? If yes, that’s fine, if not, that was illegal. It’s not rocket science, you should be able to figure this out.
Soldiers and Politicians are not Civilians. If China, Russia, and Iranian aggression sparks a war then they’re as much to blame for the consequences. Fuck Around, Find Out.
if the attack was legal then it’s okay.
Look, right there, you’re belittling me for not sacrificing babies like you do. Why do you do this thing? Who are you praying to with these infanticides?
Amazingly terrible reading comprehension as usual
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 23:18
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The exceptions make the rule, Donald Trump alone did this bypassing all safeguards the USA put in place to prevent this sort of thing.
Probably because you think Trump is the wolf in the hen house rather than think that it’s always how the president has acted, just usually with an actual PR team
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 06 Jan 00:58
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So the wolves you kill children for represent Putin? Would you sacrifice babies to some other animal in the absence of wolves? Would a bear not make more sense?
War crimes apply regardless whether a conflict is international or even whether it’s a declared war. The US never declared war in Vietnam, but nobody can deny the My Lai massacre was a war crime.
NewDark@lemmings.world
on 04 Jan 22:18
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They’re dogs and vassals of the empire. Of course they aren’t biting the hand that feeds.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 09:43
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I doubt it’s just the Israelis who have compromision photos of top European politicians fucking little kids that they got using operations like Epstein’s.
Of course not Russia does too, what I was saying was that CIVILIZED countries don’t behave like that.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 13:59
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Yeah, well, look at Britain which had a massive demonstration of half a million people against the Genocide in Gaza and yet their supposedly “leftwing” “moderate” government is arresting people for “terrorism support” when they demonstrate against it.
The people ARE civilized, it’s their elites (political or otherwise) which are unreformed barbarians by comparison, especially in those countries were the structures of power mean such people have been an entrenched and unchallenged elite for generations.
So I would say that the countries are CIVILIZED, however they’re controlled by elites whose minset is still the same as the ancient monsters from the past (hence why, for example, British governments and Press have a mindset of colonialism towards the outside and “born to rule” towards their own citizens whilst German governments and Press support the Genocide of a “lesser people by a greater people” and both deploy authoritarian means to suppress dissent even tough they’re supposedly Democracies).
This is also why I expect plenty of members of those elites will have broken the ultimate tabu of our era - they have the same principles of the ruling elites of centuries past, feel themselves above the law and firmly believe everybody else are nothing more than tools for their own personal upsides - including pleasure - and for many that would include children.
PS: As I see it, the solution for the problems in Democracies is MORE Democracy (more transparency, more accountability, more independent oversight, more variety and change) but we’re going in the opposite direction and the actions of the ruling elites in the US and the support from the political elites in certain countries for that all matches with the moving away from Democracy towards Might Is Right and Authoritarianism
Not really, if the British people were civilized they would have introduced democracy instead of the bullshit excuse they have for it now.
And they would have removed the house of lords which is an extremely undemocratic and moronic institution.
In Danish Lord and lort are very close verbally, and lort means shit. So to me it’s the shit house.
But that’s not the only problem, first past the post is also undemocratic and is creating a system dominated by 2 parties that take turns governing, this is not democracy but at best a deeply dysfunctional democracy, and is as bad as USA only realistically having 2 options when they vote.
UK is so behind as a society, compared to other Western European countries, the only way they may appear good is by comparison to USA. UK inherited a strong economy from the early days of industrialization, and the colonies, without that UK would have been as poor and backwards as Ireland was prior to joining EU.
however they’re controlled by elites
In UK that is way more the case than other European countries, because the population accept it. The continued existence of the house of lords is clear evidence of that.
But again ONLY because the population is accepting it. No other European country will have you arrested for peaceful demonstrations, and I agree it’s an atrocity that this continues under a labour government. And I agree it is a result of the people having lost power because democracy in UK isn’t working.
Yet the solution is only a few hundred kilometers away, with plenty examples of better democracies in Europe, IMO especially the Scandinavian model.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 21:05
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First I mainly agree with you: I lived in Britain as in immigrant for a decade, which was preceded by a decade living in The Netherlands, and my opinion of Britons (especially the English, more so their upper middle class and above) is very negative by comparison with my opinion of the Dutch in general and my impression of British society by the time I left was basically “The country of Europe closest to Fascism, only it’s disguised with posh bollocks from posh people with a posh accent”.
However this shit the current government is doing there of arresting people demonstrating against the Genocide as “terrorist supporters” doesn’t have the support of most of the population. Further, 1.5% of the people of a country coming out in a demonstration for the benefit of completely different people and in no way whatsoever for their own personal benefit shows that at last that many people over there have incredibly strong principles.
It doesn’t prove that most people are quite that good people, but it still seems to me that most aren’t quite as bad as being deemed uncivilized.
As I see it, the point you’re making is really that pretty much the entirety of the non-elites there lack a spine, both as people and as a group - hence not doing much to overthrow the power structures of that country - which is not the same as not being civilized people, though as we can see both path lead to similar outcomes in situations like this one.
Frankly, I couldn’t agree more with that view! Countless experiences I’ve had over there speak of subservience towards the upper classes and even towards society in general (the level of concern with “what will other people think of me” there, especially amongst Middle Class women, is quite extreme when compared with, for example, the Dutch) and maybe explains why they’re so good at Theatre: a lot of people over there spend their lives behind a thick complex façade so it’s unsurprising when so many make a hobby and even a profession from it.
Further, they’re relentlessly indoctrinated with both Nationalism and Respect For Authority (in other words, for the elite dynasties) by the local Press, which is maybe why the Brits are actually the least trusting in the local Press of all of Europe.
However, lack of a spine - which in my opinion is mainly a learned trait from growing up in such a society - though not exactly positive in Psychological and Freedom terms, isn’t the same as being uncivilized.
1.5% of the people of a country coming out in a demonstration for the benefit of completely different people and in no way whatsoever for their own personal benefit shows that at last that many people over there have incredibly strong principles.
Yes there are some, but it’s a minority, you have to judge a country by the majority and their government. Because those are the ones representing the country.
There can be exceptions where the people are oppressed, with military force, but UK is NOT such a country.
both as people and as a group
No individuals are individuals and have different traits, this is 100% as the group we call UK.
which is not the same as not being civilized people
I would argue that having something like the house of lords is an expression of being uncivilized as a country.
Again the people consist of individuals, but as a group of people we call UK they definitely have traits in their society that are immoral and to me immoral equals uncivilized.
Now all countries can have elements that are immoral, the problem with UK is that it has elements that are deeply fundamental to their society, much like USA.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 10:14
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Again, your entire point is around them not having succeeded in overthrowing a massive, complex, centuries old, highly resilient power structure which amongst other things indoctrinates them from an early age into compliance and even pride in it.
Things over there are massivelly rigged exactly to stop such a change, an many levels, from the First Past The Post voting system and a Press incredibly consolidated and either in the hands of either billionaires or controlled by the upper class boards, to the whole Public School -> Oxbridge -> Top Level Corporate/Legal/Public Service Position pathway that that makes sure the scions of the elites always end up in control of the rest.
Further, in many ways that structure has been cracking due to internal pressure, though as shown the last time it was really under pressure (following WWII and the return of large numbers of working class people with military trainin) it showed massive flexibility which is how Brits got the NHS, Social Security and even a Gilded Age in the Arts (from all the working class kids that flooded into Music and Theatre) during the 60s and 70s, though all those gains have been slowly been undone, especially since Thatcher got into power.
So you’re basically saying that when peasants don’t assault the fortress they’re uncivilized a logic which ultimately (considering that there is always room for improvement) boils down to “Only Violent Revolution is Civilization”
massive, complex, centuries old, highly resilient power structure
The constitution was supposed to be a living document, that was supposed to be improved upon.
This is the exact opposite of your claim. USA was supposed to improve, Americans just chose not to do that.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 10:38
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Oh sorry for the mixup, mistook it for another line of debate.
But still other countries have had similar systems and changed them. Including my own country, that also used to have a 2 part parliament similar to what UK has now.
That was changed in 1953 after more than a hundred years. Here they were called first and second chamber, and that two part distinction had existed since the 16 hundreds, from before we had democracy.
I don’t see why it would be harder to modernize in UK than other countries. Except for the British exceptionalism, and the British holding almost religiously on to their traditions.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 11:51
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Sure, my country too had a revolution and overthrew a Fascist dictatorship. That doesn’t make it a measure of civilization though.
I’ve lived in several countries of Europe and the web controlling Brits is exceptional in its breadth and depth and quite subtle: for example watch the BBC and look for language that subtly classifies different people as having different implicity trustworthiness, for example how they will report Israeli authorities as “saying” or “stating” things whilst Palestinian authorities “claim” things - this kind of technique is not just used for the Israeli Genocide, it’s used for everything and pretty hard to internally compensate for even if you’re aware of it because it mainly affects you at a subconscious level. Brits are constantly being indoctrinated and manipulated, all done with way more subtlety than run of the mill dictatorships.
Or look at how their level of civil society surveillance as shown by the Snowden Revelations was even worse than the US.
Further, do you know they have a Press censorship scheme called D-Notices? Most Britons don’t even know this.
In many ways Britain is a lot more like an Authoritarian Regime with a bit of performative voting (think Russia) than a Democratic country, only it’s all done way more subtly with far more advanced manipulation techniques as the structures supporting it have been developed over, literally, centuries.
(That’s why I said that I left the country thinking it was basically the closest to Fascism we have in Europe, just disguised as posh)
Yet plenty of people over there still have very strong principles to the point that 1.5% of the population went out and demonstrated purely for their principles and not at all their own personal good and people are still going out and risking being arrested by the government as “terrorist supporters” for demonstrating against a Genocide that doesn’t actually affect them personally.
Granted, at the same time there is also a large fraction of the population who are complete cunts, from Financiers in the City and the Political class, to Racist Nationalists.
Don’t get me wrong: British Society itself is quite backwards as European nations go in many things, it’s just that a significant fraction of the population do hold personal humanist values and are willing to at least go out and demonstrate and even face the authorities for them. I compare it with my own country - Portugal - whose society isn’t quite as ill (it has its problems, mainly different ones) but activism for actual principle around here is almost non-existent (sure, people will demonstrate and even strike for their own personal good, but for example a far smaller fraction of people was demonstrating against the Israeli Genocide here than in Britain) and don’t get me started on just hugely unlikely people around here are to do thinks like avoiding having a car for Ecological reasons.
PS: In fact, now that I think about it, a lot of the reason why I think that Revolutionary Capability is not the same as Civilization is the observation on my own country of how people can be perfectly capable of fighting for themselves to the point of overthrowing a dictatorship and yet won’t at all fight for others. In my view, “civilization” must include fighting against certain things happenning to anybody and only just fighting against those things happenning to oneself is merely Survival.
I must admit I am not nearly as informed about Portugal as I am about Northern Europe. But despite that I know they have some pretty strong policies protecting the weaker parts of civilization and workers, as misunderstood as they may sometimes be compared to the Scandinavian model that seems to work better.
The Portuguese may not be protesting as much as the Brits, but I don’t think the Portuguese system is as inherently bad as is the case for UK. In Portugal most things can be improved through the democratic process. Denmark is also a country that has a very low degree of protests, and I believe that coincides with being one of the best democracies in the word. If it works don’t fix it.
But apart from that, I agree with you.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 13:41
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I think we differ mainly in that I think that in this era Civilization must be broader than just “Doing what’s better for us”.
So in that sense the Scandinavian model of governance by itself (absent all else), whilst more civilized than most others, isn’t enough for Civilization - there needs to be some kind of broad holding of Universal Humanist Principles rather than merelly just the nation treating its own citizens well.
By that metric and looking at the awful position of Denmark in regards to the Israeli Genocide and even in things like pushing for broad civil society surveillance at the EU level in the form of Chat Control, Denmark is NOT a civilized country, even if it’s better for its own citizens than the vast majority of countries are for theirs.
there needs to be some kind of broad holding of Universal Humanist Principles
I agree, and those principles are the basis for the welfare system, healthcare for all, livable minimum wage etc.
But also all EU countries are committed to those, it is mandatory for being a member of EU.
UK has a long history of not respecting such values particularly with their colonialism, and not letting go until they couldn’t hold onto it anymore.
USA has a similar problem with slavery way beyond what was acceptable in other countries that called themselves civilized. USA has even gone so far as to keep oppressing minorities, first with less voting power, but later exploited as cheap labor, which is probably why we see such a low minimum wage even today.
Take those general humanitarian principles, and you will see the leading democracies also being leading in humanitarian values. An example obviously being the Scandinavian countries. Just as authoritarian countries have disregard for humanitarian values.
We see that clearly in both USA and UK that are both dysfunctional democracies.
By that metric and looking at the awful position of Denmark in regards to the Israeli Genocide
And what awful position is that? Denmark has not helped Israel in their genocide, there was a reaction against the Hamas terrorist attack a couple of years ago, but the tune has changed a lot since that. I agree that personally I think our prime ministers initial reaction was disgusting and tone deaf 100% supporting Israel (but only morally and at the time), but Denmark has not supported Israel in their violent attacks on Palestine. And Denmark has also criticized Israel very strongly, and OFFICIALLY accused Israel of genocide in for instance UN.
The knee jerk reaction to support Israel is something that most western democracies suffer from, we were responsible for the creation of Israel, and somehow see it as our responsibility to protect Israel. Although Israel has become the villain we originally wanted to protect them against.
But Denmark is in no way like either USA in this situation, that have laws that they are required to protect Israel. Those laws may have seemed like a good idea at the time, but in this situation they need to be removed.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 14:43
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Lets put things this way: nations which hold Universal Humanist Principles will always treat their citizens well (or at least as well as they can), but nations which treat their citizens well don’t necessarily hold Universal Humanist Principles.
As for the rest, it’s just circling back to my original point that few or no nations are civilized, but the citizens in some nations are civilized whilst the elites holding power are not.
Good to know Denmark has changed its position in the Genocide. When are the sanctions on Israel starting?!
I also noticed you didn’t address my point on Denmark’s government push for broad civil society surveillance for all of the EU with Chat Control, something which in my view is the very opposite of “civilized” in the modern era.
BoJackHorseman@piefed.social
on 05 Jan 17:09
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Europe is America’s bitch. Europeans aren’t ready to accept it yet lol
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 01:24
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I like Trumps term. He called it a strike.
ThePantser@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 01:51
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Two more and he’s out, right?
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 04:21
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Trump is everything bad about a psychopath, sociopath and narcissist.
Rolled up in what we call malignant narcissist. He has complete disregard for other people, and he has absolutely no conscience, and he expects to be worshiped.
Fuck Americans for making him president twice.
H1AA6329S@lemmy.world
on 04 Jan 20:58
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Just the way he spoke about watching it happening live and comparing it to a good TV show says a lot about his mental state.
A key element of narcissism is that nothing really matters except the one person. The world is basically just something that happens and should always center around them. He’s one of the biggest narcissists to ever exist so suffering and pain in others means nothing to him. It never has and never will.
Sorry to hear you lost your family to a cult.
In Denmark we have 12 parties in parliament, and none of them are as bad as the Republicans. Because none of them would remove healthcare for all.
I don’t think most Americans really understand how extreme the Republicans are, even without Trump!
USA has gone mad as a society, and see the selfishness of rich Republicans as an expression of freedom.
It is not all Americans that are mad, but like when a person has terminal cancer, it is not all cells in the body that are cancerous, but it’s enough to make the cancer terminal.
USA still has good people and even remarkable people, but unfortunately they are a minority.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 Jan 23:00
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As a Dane whose brother works in Nuuk 2-4 months a year, I’m not a fan of those plans, actually. I’d rather he not, tbh.
I don’t think he realises that Greenland is part of Denmark and therefore part of NATO. I don’t think they realise that any attack on Greenland would invoke article 5.
The only people that mentioned taking Greenland with military force are those complete idiots who know absolutely nothing about them being part of NATO.
Their only hope can be for the people of Greenland to have a referendum to leave Denmark and join the USA. But they have already expressed multiple times that they are not interested in joining the USA.
All this is right now is just empty talk seeking popularity points.
So unless America wants to leave NATO and start a war with it, it’s not gonna happen.
I mean is there any provision if one nato country attacks another then what happens? realistically I dont think even united europe could do much to US militarily, until they all sanction them heavily.
Yep, it’s all kinds of fucked up. Europe certainly can’t afford to fight both the USA and Russia.
I’m absolutely certain if the EU went to war with the USA, Russia would take advantage and invade all the eastern Europe, while the USA is attacking the west.
The most that could happen is throwing out the USA from NATO.
Considering the new york crimes reporting on gaza multiply that number by 10. The American Pedophile crime syndicate state media will always minimize war crimes.
How morally curropt a society have to be to be ruled by literal pedophiles waging wars for oil.
Fuck this shit
MisterOwl@lemmy.world
on 04 Jan 20:42
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If we manage to escape the trump dictatorship, every soldier involved needs to be court-martialed and sentenced for following illegal orders.
themoken@startrek.website
on 04 Jan 22:21
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This made me laugh. This is the same shit we’ve been doing for 100 years. “Illegal orders” aren’t a thing when you use your imperial military to do imperialism. The last time we had a President that wasn’t a war criminal was never.
auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 01:08
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Yeah this is more like a return to the norm, just more blatant and overt. And even earlier than 100 years, before America was strong enough to reach out into the world and do this to other countries, it was manifest destiny against the indigenous. You won’t find a corner of this planet unmolested by American imperialism, and the hardest hit are still problems that persist to this day.
Whether it’s the Panama Canal, the Monroe doctrine, the Banana republics, or atrocities in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos. Intervening in civil wars and conflicts that would eventually create Taiwan and South Korea and Israel as American vassal states built with the purpose of serving American interests. Fomenting a coup in Iran over oil which would usher in the Iranian revolution, or smashing Iraq which created a power vacuum for isis to form. Wherever and whenever America reaches out into the world, death and destruction will typically follow. And if it isn’t leaving a shattered and broken state for whoever is left to pick up the pieces, then it’s funding and arming one side of a war to create a satellite state to enrich itself which leaves a conflict ready to reignite at any moment.
I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 00:31
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And then we should get all the world leaders in a big room and tell them they’re being bad. Then they’ll all sing and hold hands and stop all wars. And then later my mommy can make us all dino nuggies and we can watch Trollhunters on Netflix.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
on 05 Jan 05:06
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Y’know… Of all the ridiculously stupid improbable absurdity that’s happened…
… I’m kinda down for that one over whatever the frick we’re living through at the moment lol.
And then later my mommy can make us all dino nuggies and we can watch Trollhunters on Netflix.
Your mom sounds cool. Call her and tell her she’s cool. ❤️
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 00:43
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The USA has done this many times (captured or even murdered heads of state, and anyone else they wish to), there has never been a court martial and nobody has ever been punished.
This never happened in US history and I don’t think americans have the spine to do anything even remotely close to this.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 06:26
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FYI US soldiers involved in illegal orders in the USA are almost never court-martialed or even put on trial. The only one I can think of actually being convicted is the Mai Lai massacre way back in 1968. The US has become consistently more brazen in its flaunting of international law regarding war crimes and any policing of its armed forces through subsequent administrations since.
In fact its very rare for US troops or even military contractors brazenly ignoring orders and committing war crimes to even be put on trial, let alone be convicted. The most recent incident I can think of is the four Blackwater contractors during ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’ that massacred 17 unarmed Iraqi civilians and injured 20 in Baghdad city. There was such overwhelming evidence in the case that they were convicted by a US court of murder (one member) and manslaughter (the other three) in 2014.
Even that was an unacceptable level of accountability for the Republicans, so Trump gave them all presidential pardons in his first term in 2020.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl
on 05 Jan 11:47
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They don’t even prosecute foreign war criminals, much less their own. US Nuremberg trails had a <0.2% conviction rate for identified war criminals lol. Less than 1% of “major war criminals”.
Criminal cops are paid instead of convicted.
There is 0 hope for any justice at all for these people unless the entire US government gets overthrown or something just as drastic.
AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 06:56
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Sadly, we won’t.
possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 05 Jan 07:15
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You could march them in fucking shackles to the Hague and they would just handwave them away. Nobody is coming to fucking save us, and the sooner people wake the fuck up and realize that, the sooner we can start organizing valuable and competent community defense networks.
DrDickHandler@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 17:10
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The amount of people who voted republican completely obliterates the tiny fraction of people who abstained from voting democrat. How about directing focus where it’s relevant?
Republican voters voted for this. Non-voters didn’t vote, hence the name. I can’t believe I have to tell you this. Even if there wasn’t a single non-voter, nothing would’ve changed. Try directing your douchebag attitude towards those who are actually responsible.
Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world
on 04 Jan 22:21
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In our first past the post system with only 2 parties, the non-voters did vote for this.
Republicans by and large know what they voted for. Protest-non-voters need to be informed what they in fact voted for, as you demonstrate.
Ah yes see you’re looking to assign responsiblity. Again, I am informing protest-non-voters what they voted for.
aesthelete@lemmy.world
on 04 Jan 22:44
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I agree that saying “non-voters voted for” anything is basically absurd, but people sitting on the couch rather than voting did affect the outcome of the 2024 election. A bit over three million fewer people voted in 2024 than 2020.
Yes, the second and first most voted elections in your nations history. Clearly it is the small number of voters that are not supportive of the only two options at fault.
Managed democracy is meant to be a joke, but the real joke is the attitude on display from americans that somehow still think they live in a democracy.
All the people making excuses for why their vote clearly didn’t matter so they were better off not voting obviously aren’t making excuses themselves. That would be silly!
edible_funk@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 00:39
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Non voters voted for this by virtue of being too stupid to know how our system works. They deserve responsibility.
Every non-voter was fine with this outcome because they couldn’t sack up and make the less bad choice. If you see a car coming towards a child in the road and do nothing you are still partly responsible if they get hit. They allowed it to happen through their inaction.
SulaymanF@lemmy.world
on 04 Jan 22:54
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There’s been polling analysis that showed if you forced everyone to vote then Harris would have lost to Trump by an even bigger margin due to the unpopularity of the administration at the time. Nonvoters didn’t make a difference. Michigan was won by Trump by a bigger margin than all college students or Arabs or Muslims or any other minority group in the state.
I think you’re trying to assign blame. Again, I am informing non-protest-voters what they voted for.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org
on 04 Jan 23:07
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But the moral prohibition on siding with any administration that endorses genocide will force a different flavor of the exact same logic that centrist liberalism has depended on for so long: hold your nose and align with the least worst thing. Only the least worst thing will no longer be the mild, ethics-agnostic emptiness of modern Western liberalism, nor will it be the multitude of barbaric authoritarians and their secret prisons. It will be communal solidarity, or else nothing, a walking away from all of this. Countless otherwise pragmatic people who would in any other circumstance choose liberalism by default will instead decide none of this is worth the damage to one’s soul. They will instead support no one, vote for no one, wash their hands of any ordering of the world that results in choices no better than this. And the obvious centrist refrain—But do you want the deranged right wing to win?—should, after even a moment of self-reflection, yield to a far more important question: How empty does your message have to be for a deranged right wing to even have a chance of winning? Of all the epitaphs that may one day be written on the gravestone of Western liberalism, the most damning is this: Faced off against a nihilistic, endlessly cruel manifestation of conservatism, and somehow managed to make it close.
— Omar El-Akkad, One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This, correction mine
That argument doesn’t work when one option is a cataclysmic disaster
But most importantly - when you look at what policies that Trump voters said they voted for, you could divide that into a fraction of voters voting for evil (plain stupid racists), and a large fraction voting for something positive which they had been told Trump would deliver - yet which he was objectively worse at. Most people voted Trump for the economy while told he was a great businessman, or for healthcare while told he’d make health insurance more affordable (but now he made it less), etc…
Almost every positive impact in the last decades that his voters attributed to him was delivered by his opposition.
This wasn’t an election lost to attrition. Your quote explains nothing about what happened.
There was more votes than ever. It was lost to propaganda and people being idiots, not seeing through the fraud. Trump’s policies lost every poll when names were taken off. Everything he wanted to do kept being rejected. But the propaganda machine made people distrust the people who delivered all the things they said they were grateful for, and to trust the liar instead.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org
on 05 Jan 01:24
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Implying that a Harris/second Biden administration wouldn’t be a cataclysmic disaster
Implying that any outcome where AmeriKKKa continues to exist and destroy our world wouldn’t be a cataclysmic disaster
Maybe they went to an Arkansas school, or any other american one that teaches people to only support the terrible system.
But hey! You voted right so you can be smug and its only fair you get to point your impotent rage at those who did not vote the way you did. And next time when the two parties are both somehow worse you can once again vote for the lesser evil!
Bologna. There are not enough conservative voters in virtually any nation to win in an election that progressive voters actually turn out to. Conservatives only win when progressives don’t vote; conservatives NEVER don’t vote.
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 04 Jan 22:43
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yeah but then how could libs feel smugly superior?
they’d rather blame the tiny fraction of people with principles rather than the third of the country that is actively fascist, because politically, they’re closer to the fascists
arnitbier@sh.itjust.works
on 04 Jan 23:17
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Because they are the ones that knew but chose to play some bullshit game instead of putting their shit aside for the reality they knew was there but just made them feel uncomfortable.
Its actually way worse in that way then the republicans who are nearly impossible to blame as they were and some still are totally convinced a fantasy reality was actually there at that time and can’t be held as accountable by blaming as much as they see it as a personal attack and it vindicates them if not put in language they understand.
Tell the republicans to fuck themselves and it helps to remind them they’re supporting a pedo and a warmongerer. Hold them accountable with specifics actions he’s done against them and why its bad. Not a general you shouldn’t have voted for him because fantasyland reasoning
You have to do their thinking for them entirely I’m learning, its like drugs, theyre addicted to people thinking for them, have to get them a healthy alternative to get them weaned so they can fend for themselves afterwards but not before that happens
Oh I know this one, its the two party system pretending to be a democracy right?
But I am things are bad because the wrong team is in power, and if they turn out to be great it is all due to the brave right team. But hey good thing you are there to “do their thinking for them entirely”!
arnitbier@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 03:21
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Jesus your contextual reading needs work
Fox news ONN types need they’re thinking done for them.
You need therapy and a fucking wake up call. This is reality not some ideological victimhood posturing contest. The two party system controlled by the media and the monetary powers that be run this shitshow (along with Russian gov misinformation campaigning and other fucking useful idiots)
So spelled out. It was not a good time to take that fight and were all getting fucked up now because you fucked up your turn.
Figure if they come for you, your family or a loved one and send them to some hellhole that might that might help you understand that. But have fun winning your “The world has to work how I want it before I participate” award. Wasn’t worth it IMO.
Learn to play the actual game or get fucked by those that already do. Good fucking luck next turn. Do not fuck up this one
Fox news ONN types need they’re thinking done for them.
And you see no issues with this statement? You need the wake up call, you live in a hellscape that is actively making the world worse and just assume I do too. You and your american exceptionalism can go to hell. The best time to fight was before and the next best time is now.
Please do the world a favor and ether fix your shit nation or collapse already.
What’s the definition of insanity again? Something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
Well, I’ve been voting “blue no matter who” for damn near 30 years now, and shit has not changed for the better. Society has changed for the better in some ways, but that is not being represented in our government.
I’m starting to think my vote for Nader was the sanest thing I’ve ever done in my civic life.
I’d hardly take criticism from so called leftists regarding smugness.
Blaming “liberals” for not voting on “principle” (re: ego) while they sit on their asses telling everyone else to form an armed rebellion instead certainly aren’t smug bastards themselves.
The amount of people who sat home on voting day outweighs both republican and democrat voters. Apathy won the last presidential election, just like every election in recent memory.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 00:01
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Apathy is a tool of capital. If apathy is the reason, capitalism is the cause
While true, a Pew study found that “if all Americans eligible to vote in 2024 had cast ballots, the overall margin in the popular vote likely would not have been much different”.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 10:24
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Encouraging more democratic leaning voters would’ve made a difference however, you don’t have to assume linear proportional effect
Which is exactly the job of the Democrat Party leaders, which is done via amongst other things offering potential voters the things they desire and assuaging their concerns, things which are clearly not “Unwavering support of Israel and its Genocide”, “Do whatever is good for Finance and Tech-bros” or “Supporting the Cheney family, legacy and political ideology”.
The people with by far the most power to convince leftwing leaning non-voters to vote for the Democrat Party were the Democrat Party leaders and they, with all that power they had, actually did the very opposite of trying to cater to the desires and concerns of such non-voters.
Yet around here whenever american politics pops up as a subject we get a rabid pack of mindless useful idiots blaming non-voters literally for not convincing themselves to vote for a party whose leaders activelly tried to reject them, never blaming those fucking leaders for activelly rejecting said potential voters.
Fuck the subservient, bootlicking Democrat Party tribalists who keep on excusing the profound incompetence and greed of their tribe’s “chiefs” and parroting the DNC propaganda line that pushes the blame to non-voters rather than accept that the blame for a fucking monster like Trump having been elected a second time is overwhelmingly of the DNC and the rest of the Democrat Party leadership who once again chose to “stay pretty close but just below” in the Evil scales from the Republicans
Maybe it’s not so obvious for those living inside America and its Politics, but from the outside it’s obvious that both of Trump’s presidential election victories are the end product of decades of the Democrat Party leadership getting away with representing ever fewer people whilst relying on a “vote lesser evil” strategy, all of which supported by the very same useful idiots who now, once again, come out relentlessly parroting the “everybody but ourselves is to blame” mindless bullshit that only an acephalic tribalist muppet would believe.
It is fucking obvious for anybody who knows just a bit of World History that Trump or somebody like him was bound to be elected sooner or later in the US when the strategy of the competing political force there was nothing more than invariably sidding with the handful of moneyed elites just limited by the need to stay just one step below in the Ladder of Evil from the other political force.
So enjoy the Fall Of The Empire you created for yourselves (by supporting a “Greater Evil” vs “Lesser evil” political power structure) and for the other 340 million people over there, whilst the rest of us batters the hatches and endures the side effects of the “Empire overextending itself militarily whilst the homeland becomes ever empoverished and authoritarian” phase of such Fall until America fizzles in power (if you’re lucky) or breaks up.
“tiny fraction of people” millions of registered D voters sat it out
The DNC knew that Harris campaign pursuing Republican votes would cost her the election. She knew it, too, she’s not dumb.
Independents outnumber Ds and Rs; if you ignore your own Democrats and ignore Independents and pursue Republican votes, you will lose every time.
The math requires you to keep your own voters AND acquire Independent votes. There’s no way around it, not enough Ds exist, even if all had voted you still need I votes.
This is why Democratic campaigns are otherwise always focused on D and I votes.
Why did they ignore the fundamentals? You decide… but recall that she raised over a billion dollars in a few months, whilst Trump raised only 900 million in four years.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org
on 04 Jan 22:45
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AmeriKKKa is uniparty on foreign policy. This exact outcome would have happened under a Harris administration, except they would have kept up the kayfabe, so I would have had to spend hours debating with shitlibs like you that this war is in fact just about oil.
If you wanna play “shame Olympics”, liberals should be fucking ashamed for losing to the fucking fascists twice, giving the keys of the kingdom to the fascist twice, doing fucking nothing with their political power every time they had it, and barely even pretending to offer a political program worth fighting for.
Pragmatism beats principles every day of the week. The problem is it makes weak-willed people scared.
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org
on 05 Jan 00:04
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Yes, pragmatically speaking, voting for Biden does absolutely fucking nothing to alleviate any of the problems faced by the working class. It doesn’t affect the onward progression of capitalism, it doesn’t stop the racists from controlling the government, doesn’t stop the cops from murdering black people, doesn’t stop the erasure of LGBTQIA lives, doesn’t do anything.
The pragmatic options are to first stabilize your own situation, and then organize popular resistance and do direct actions if you have the bandwidth.
Thank you for volunteering to pay our bills while we overthrow our government!
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org
on 04 Jan 23:28
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Meh, not that great an argument. We really shouldn’t be paying bills to people who allow this system to keep chugging.
Better argument would be that we have our own domestic military to be afraid of (i.e. AmeriKKKan police).
And even in the face of both these arguments, I think it’s 1000% justified to be upset at USians because they barely even have to try to manufacture our consent anymore.
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 Jan 23:31
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I’m sure y’all say that to North Koreans too. What a bunch of cowards for being powerless.
North Koreans are not obliterating their neighbours and the middle east. What a stupid comparison.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 00:49
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You’re so passionate! I encourage you to come to the USA and lead the charge. Show us how it’s done! Your leadership will surely be a shining beacon for all, your wisdom remembered for the ages. We’ll erect a big statue of you and everything.
p.s. if Americans are violent murderers, so are every citizen of every country that aids the US military war machine in any way; if you sit at the table with Nazis you are a Nazi, etc. Chances are very good the USA arms YOUR country
FanciestPants@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 05:27
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I’m appalled by the US leaders and protesting against this shit whenever I can, but using the WW2 example undermines your argument unless the logic is that all the German jews would have just fixed all that Hitler shit if they weren’t such cowards.
The victim is the world and the murder-rapist is the us. We do think its fucked up you all live in the same house but there comes a point when maybe “don’t blame me I voted for Kodos” does not work when you are all buying the clown makeup for John Wayne Gacy.
TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 04:15
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Us citizens are the perpetrators of these global crimes. Your government acts in all your names
track_stick_baboon@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 12:37
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Careful with that edge, GreenCrybaby23.
falseWhite@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 15:41
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Of course, you are just “following orders”.
And since you didn’t vote for that pedo rapist, it’s not your problem to deal with, right?
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 16:53
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I unblocked you for a response, something I don’t usually waste my time on but this is so funny I had to point it out.
you have at least two alt accounts and are actively accusing and discrediting someone for the same thing. I think @ObtuseDoorFrame@lemmy.zip should at least know who they’re arguing with.
as if that wasn’t enough, you actually upvote all of your own comments with your alt accounts.
🤣
it’s absurd, if you spent half that effort on being a normal human being nobody would be able to tell how pathetic you are.
anyway, good luck with whatever hate machine you’re building. if this is the best you can do you’re going to need it.
A pathetic, lying American cunt crybaby is what you are.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 17:26
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sounds like someone is mad they got caught 🤣
tag me however you want, won’t make your actions any less pathetic.
for the record, I wouldn’t have even seen it if you hadn’t downvote bombed all my comments, but you piqued my interest enough to investigate your account.
I found some pretty interesting stuff. did you know that it’s possible to see all the downvote bombing you’ve done? like seriously dude…do you not have a life? not only that, but it seems you actually wrote a script to go through and do it for you because these timestamps are almost simultaneous.
I’m impressed that you could know enough to script something out and still be ignorant enough to leave breadcrumbs behind. real amateur hour stuff.
that’s not the only interesting thing either. I can see your upvotes too. it’s pretty telling tbh.
Haha, based on your long rambling replies and constant edits I know which one of us is having a mental meltdown. It ain’t me brother.
You say you don’t care about votes, yet you spent an hour doing investigative work into my voting. 🤡
you actually wrote a script
No, just good old fashioned manual labour. It takes less than a second to click on multiple down arrows while scrolling through your history. Do you have those slow fat sausage fingers?
Btw I’m only using ONE alt account and I’m not hiding anything. You really think I would use the same name on both accounts? Well you probably do, since you’re an idiot.
I’m impressed
Thank you, it’s hard work with idiots like you. All tools must be employed.
But looking at your history, it seems you are very unpopular as it is anyway, so my couple of downvotes are just a drop in the sea of downvotes you are getting from everyone else. Looks like I didn’t need to waste my time after all.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 18:00
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rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 03:02
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go and fuck your hat. I’m a coward because I don’t want to stand up to the most powerful military in the world being damn near a senior citizen?
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 03:20
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Bro, they on your side.
No one expects you to go Rambo. They just want the majority of people to find their morals and do something.
As unlikely as that is dont get so worked up because some anon was provoking you to do exactly what you just did. Maybe tomorrow you wont take down your local police department but instead look at a homeless person and think, “this isnt right.”
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 03:34
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I do contribute. Drive for a local charity a few hours a month. They need a truck, I got a truck.
I’m frustrated as fuck with the govt. right now. but, they voted it in and now we have to try to get through it. I hope it doesn’t end with bloodshed.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 03:37
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Thats it man, youre leagues above. Dont let the politics trigger you. Youre losing yourself to something you cant control.
Same goes for me.
JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 07:40
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Really just outs the commenter as having no fucking clue what they are talking about.
We are doing what we can. Constant record breaking protests. Progressives are winning by historic margins. These stupid fucking pretentious insulting comments do less than nothing.
People really just cannot fucking comprehend the breadth and intensity of the psy op propaganda that the Republicans have enacted (really since Nixon) but intensely starting with Trump.
Unprecedented targetting, unprecedented amounts of propaganda, and a collaboration with multiple foreign adversaries to assist. Trumps campaign was literally sending voter data to Russia so they can specifically target Americans with propaganda.
On top of OAN, Fox News, podcasts, and talk radio, we literally had Russia and china making thousands of full on fake websites posing as legit news spreading insane anti left bullshit. Social media was completely flooded with bots spreading misinformation leading up to all of Trump’s elections
America is the victim of the biggest and most advanced brainwashing campaign in the history of mankind and we all seem to be ignoring that fact when it is the single most important aspect of modern American and global politics.
keep reminding international armchair politicians about the facts that their leaders hold enough US Debt in the form of 10 year treasury bonds that they could take one on the chin and fire sale their bonds to topple the narcissistic house of cards
You try changing people’s opinions when you can’t even agree on what is and what isn’t reality. I really don’t think you guys have any idea how broken half of this country is. We do. Because we have to deal with these people on a daily basis. Some of them are our family.
how about try to ask yourself: would you have shot hitler, had you been there, in nazi-germany? when all oposing parties and minorities were consecutively arrested and jailed?
Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip
on 05 Jan 06:53
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There were several assassination attempts against Hitler, some of those attempts by Germans.
JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 07:38
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There have been several assassination attempts against Trump as well as consistent protests that are breaking participation records
i am a german, i know of this stuff. i was just responding to the guy, who said, theres nothing, as an US-american, he can do about. Sure he can. Americans shouldnt belittle us, as to what happened during the time of nazi germany, when they wont do stuff themselves, when presented with an somewhat similar situation.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 21:08
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okay, so the google ai (i forgot to turn it off) says pre ww2 germany was about 633,000 square kilometers to the hogshead (including austria and sudentenland because idk i was up late). united states takes up about 9,150,000 square kilometers to the hogshead. does that explain the difference in size a little bit?
so what, the country is bigger, so any assasination on trump is riskier? or resistence to the covernment? i dont understand your logic, what does size of a country matter when presented with an president, who does fascist things, right in the front of you face. And the american people do nothing about it, they then are all complicit in his actions, as were deemed the german people during the nuremberg trials.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 16:57
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y’all are trying to say just walk over to dc. you seem to not understand the scale of things. you had a country, we have a continent to walk across. fucking bad faith nazi.
JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 06:15
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Yeah why aren’t me and you single handedly overthrowing this democratically elected government! We must be stupid or something
I love seeing foreigners asking Americans online why they don’t just stop this.
Like, motherfucker millions of us voted against this.
This is the result of multiple nations and multiple massive data analytics corps collaborating to create the biggest propaganda machine ever seen on earth which brainwashed millions of Americans.
But yeah. Why the fuck isnt Dave, the liberal from Vermont just walking to Washington and stopping this!!! /s
This why you guys are considered the dumbest people on Earth
JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 07:12
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Excellent retort. Now go feel high and mighty.
You’ve really made a difference by insulting people who agree with you and are already using their means to fight against this admin
You are a true revolutionary.
Wish you could go back in time and tell all the Jews in Germany who didn’t vote for Hitler that they are stupid for not stopping him. That would be really constructive. You could really save us some trouble there.
No. But the American logic has always been “we must do something” -> “this is something” -> “therefore we must do it”. Take the dumbest idea and run with it, or use it as an excuse for inaction.
You are a coward. Along with the millions who stayed home on voting day, letting this global nightmare happen. 2nd amendment you yanks love to waive around in everyone’s face, was made for this. Yet … crickets.
JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 07:35
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This is just such an incredibly stupid insulting thing to say.
Millions of Americans oppose this admin and are actively protesting and volunteering against it.
We can’t just walk to fucking DC and remove a democratically elected prez you idiots
Tattorack@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 09:52
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Yes you can. “Millions of Americans” sounds like an army.
You do realise there is another half of the country that opposes this right? Even if 55% of the country tries to throw trump out 45% will show up to stop him and that will be a very bloody conflict.
Better just to wait until mid terms and next election and vote him out.
Not sure. I think the right will but I also think if they dont then its the better time for a bloody conflict.
You’ll have a lot more people on your side after an election loss because trump is already unpopular and people will feel cheated out of democracy. Whereas if you start a conflict now your side will look like the ones trying to overthrow democracy since he was the legitimate winner.
You only get one shot at this kind of thing
falseWhite@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 11:26
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If they can do it in other countries, why can’t you? Cowards
BTW democracy and law is dead in the USA, you are living in a delusion if you think otherwise.
So yes, you absolutely CAN and SHOULD remove a war criminal and a pedophile who is breaking all the national and international laws. WTF?
Who are you talking to? The democratic party that’s in on the classist reset? Or a guy with a slingshot? Call your leaders, ask them to sell their treasury bonds to stand in solidarity with venezuela… I’m sure they totally will because only murican billionaires are evil… yours are totally cool.
JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 12:05
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Yes. And the good Americans are constantly working towards that, anywhere from really complicated micro step means like funding grassroots progressives to things like Massie and Khanna collaborating on legislation to nation wide protests.
This is an extremely complex and disturbing situation that requires mass demonstrations and complex beuarocratic machinations and acting like Greg from Atlanta not rolling up to Washington on a tractor with a shotgun is what’s letting it happen is fucking reductive, emotional, immature, unconstructive, childish, in-fighting causing, and just fucking stupid. As stupid as they nking democracy is dead in the USA.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 22:26
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Yeah you can’t cause you’re all talk, you’re idiots and cowards. The faster you guys become a third world shithole the better.
Your cowardly leaders can sell their US Debt today when the markets open if they care to do anything meaningful - you’re foolish if you think a protest or strike will result in anything but incarceration at this stage.
Guess what? Your leaders won’t sell their US Debt. Chew on that as this storm rolls your way.
falseWhite@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 12:24
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And what will happen when the corrupt America decides not to pay because they know it will cripple them?
The bonds will become worthless pieces of paper and the USA will continue as it were.
Guess what? No one wins anything and the EU loses a ton of money for absolutely nothing.
He’s coming for greenland next - make sure you enlist since you’re not a coward
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:49
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It’s telling that you find that idea so outlandish.
People do sign up to fight aggressive shit hole countries like the US all the time, even when the odds don’t look good on paper. Just look at Ukraine. At this point most Europeans have probably given a fleeting thought to the possibility that they might soon have to fight Russia too.
For that matter, look at all poorly equipped militias that have fought off the US at massive disadvantages.
So then what you need to do is build …what… ? Take your thought to it’s logical conclusion.
Look, dear American people, there is no cavalry coming to save you. You have to do this. It’s your country. Build the infrastructure, build the organization.
The real problem here is that you painted your collective selves to a corner by apathy and inaction… now, pretty much any option left does require some sacrifice but God forbid you had to move a finger and crack a nail… better let other people keep dying so you can keep watching the game with a beer in hand
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:50
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Liberal Americans are just waiting out a hypothetical course correction to a more polite and slower collapse of the empire. They are completely unwilling to consider that the US government and the country itself is the bad guy.
It’s about time we stopped saying things like ”Trump attacked Venezuela” – the US did. Americans happily killed those people. And the killers’ relatives support them. Americans on Lemmy support them, claiming there’s nothing the killers could have done: they were just following orders.
Ultimately, the reason why supposed opponents of the Trump regime are looking for you and others to provide them with a clear path for how to decisively defeat the entirety of the US government in one fell swoop, is that their red lines, at which they’re willing to fight, win or lose, have not been crossed yet. Everything so far has been tolerable to them.
This separates them from the Maga grassroots Americans, that notably managed to storm the Capitol.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 22:23
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The average American is a pile of uneducated garbage.
Im just an indigenous guy enjoying the downfall of your people
Yes, exactly, and if the USA can do what they please why should other countries comply with it? It creates a dangerous precedent and an example for other authoritarian regimes. And I am afraid that Venezuela is just the beginning.
Everybody with nukes does as the please. US, Russia, China, North Korea, Israel…
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 20:20
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Everyone who abuses their power suffers economic repercussions at a minimum, militaristic repurcussions via the funding and arming of their opponents in some cases, but the precedent here being set is China asking “if the world won’t defend you, why should you defend the world?” It’s a dangerous warmongering idea that unfortunately might be taking root.
The US hasn’t really suffered any serious consequences, yet. Similar to China. Russia didn’t until Ukraine, before that they messed in Chechnya, Georgia, etc with impunity. I don’t see anyone coming to the aid of Tibet or the uyghurs either, China is pretty scot free.
Avicenna@programming.dev
on 06 Jan 18:31
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Very very minor. Some strongly worded letters and symbolic sanctions. They could have kept crimea and most of the donbas and in a decade things would have gone back to normal.
BoJackHorseman@piefed.social
on 05 Jan 17:08
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Venezuela is not the beginning. America has always been a terrorist state. You just have the memory of a goldfish.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
on 05 Jan 11:12
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Wasn’t it RIP with Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Or Vietnam?
brendansimms@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 13:49
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Barbary Wars - 1801
BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 19:31
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Hawaii - 1950
Still occupied to this day
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 20:24
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So the thing about Iraq is that:
Bush enacted the NATO articles after 9-11 but couldn’t prove which country was responsible so while the troops were rallied there was no actual NATO response just voluntary support.
Bush, Cheney, and the CIA managed to grub up a bunch of images of Aluminium Tubes that the CIA swore up and down were used in the production of nuclear weapons, and this case was presented to Congress to gain support for the war.
The same arguments were presented to the UN prior to the invasion.
Comparing Trump’s weekend getaway trip to that is disingenuous to its core, congress and largely the American people had absolutely no part to play in his insanity, and normalizing it or pretending there won’t or shouldn’t be repercussions for that helps nobody except for Donald Trump.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
on 05 Jan 21:05
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This is a childish and wrong way of understanding politics. “Orange man bad”, although a true statement, doesn’t explain USA geopolitics, which are largely bipartisan.
You say congress played no part, yet most of congress (even most democrats) don’t condemned the actions themselves, only the lack of protocol followed. Half of EU politicians are celebrating too.
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 21:27
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I myself don’t condemn the action itself, Maduro had it coming and so do all the other anti-democratic despots of the world. I place the greater good of all future people above my own comfort.
But Trump should be punished just as any other president should, this is not their power to do.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
on 05 Jan 22:36
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The entire purpose of economic sanctions on Venezuela is to prevent free elections, because free elections gave rise to the Bolivarian revolution. This is not me making it up, this is literally the US policy as said by themselves with economic sanctioning:
The majority of Cubans support Castro (the lowest estimate I have seen is 50 percent).
2.There is no effective political opposition.
3.Fidel Castro and other members of the Cuban Government espouse or condone communist influence.
4.Communist influence is pervading the Government and the body politic at an amazingly fast rate.
5.Militant opposition to Castro from without Cuba would only serve his and the communist cause.
6.The only foreseeable means of alienating internal support is through disenchantment and disaffection based on economic dissatisfaction and hardship.
If the above are accepted or cannot be successfully countered, it follows that every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. If such a policy is adopted, it should be the result of a positive decision which would call forth a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.
By arguing about elections without taking sanctions into account, you’re just being a CIA stooge
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 23:17
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I can’t tell if you’re being facetious of if you actually think Venezuela is Cuba? After Cuba aligned with the USSR at the height of the cold war and became a single party dictatorship, economic suppression seems like a tame response. You realize they almost set off WWIII?
I feel like support for Castro would plummet harshly if any opposition were allowed on it’s soil, but it was not.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
on 05 Jan 23:31
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The document: Cubans are overwhelmingly in support of communism, so we need to starve them
The most “democratic” westerner: OF COURSE WE STARVED THEM, THEY DIDN’T HAVE TWO PARTIES
Just so you know: US + EU economic sanctions have murdered 38 million people in the past 50 years, and continue to murder half a million yearly. “Tame suppression”
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 23:33
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Starved? They were primarily an agricultural economy. Maybe if Castro grew something other than Tobacco less people would have died, idk why every communist country has this dumb initiation ritual where they kill off large sums of their own people.
BTW it says the opposite of support for revolution. The USA caused their revolution and gained them self-governance before they CHOSE to live under Castro’s dictatorship.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
on 05 Jan 23:34
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I updated my response with scientific medical evidence that US and EU sanctions directly murder half a million people a year. You are literally a murderous maniac if you support that.
For fucks sake, the document literally says “TO BRING ABOUT HUNGER AND DESPERATION”, you obtuse motherfucker
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 23:38
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The fact that you blame the extreme poverty and lack of human rights in those nations on the nations who refuse to cooperate with them over their violent tendencies and affiliations, rather than those nations themselves, is absurd, honestly.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
on 05 Jan 23:42
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IT IS NOT ME BLAMING ANYTHING, IT’S THE USA ADMITTING THIS THEMSELVES BY SAYING “WE WANT TO BRING HUNGER AND DESPERATION”, AND IT’S SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTS OF SANCTIONS.
USA: “WE LITERALLY WANT TO STARVE CUBA BECAUSE IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO REMOVE POPULAR SUPPORT FROM COMMUNISM”
Smartest imperialism apologist: “smh can’t believe you’re blaming anyone else than the commies”
FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
on 05 Jan 23:50
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I GUESS WE’RE DOING ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, NOW. HEY REMEMBER THAT DOCUMENT SAYING THAT CUTTING OFF TRADE WITH AN AGRICULTURAL ECONOMY NATION WOULD CAUSE THEM TO STARVE AND BE IMPOVERISHED? I WOULD SAY THAT’S A BIT OF A SKILL ISSUE ON THAT NATION’S GOVERNMENT.
WHY IS REFUSING TO SAVE THEM FROM THEIR OWN MISMANAGEMENT, A SECOND TIME I MIGHT ADD, SOMEHOW THE USA’S FAULT?
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 12:17
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This is being very common with everything related to US. Ecuador invaded Mexican embassy and now this.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 17:13
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Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army. You know what I mean?
Now is maybe not the time to throw “not all men” around.
Now is the time to actively resist and prove to the rest of the world yourself an ally in a global fight against fascism taking command of the largest military on the planet.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 14:19
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How many times I heard that it’s ok to murder Palestinians because I’m 2006 they voted for the party that got rid of Israeli settlements.
meanwhile the American people are not responsible for the guy they voted a second time last year?
every conservative voter is directly complicit with those murders, and ideally they should face justice, and every liberal is also complicit because the Dems are useless and also do this bullshit.
Only reply I’ll accept is that the US is not a democracy, barely even a pretend one. it’s a theater for the rich to do as they please. but I’ll still blame the Americans for not providing enough pushback.
almost every other nation would have revolted. Americans are exceptionally meek bootlickers.
scapegarced@sopuli.xyz
on 05 Jan 14:11
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Do not absolve the past administrations, do not absolve the future administrations, canada, europe, russia or china. Fuck the global north.
BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 19:17
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All European leaders have done since the abduction of Maduro and massacre of 80 people in Venezuela “monitoring” the situation. Europe is complicit.
So you’re not wrong. Not sure why people are down voting.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/58f6cf05-ff07-438c-a7f4-ed7523744e53.jpeg">
scapegarced@sopuli.xyz
on 05 Jan 21:00
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I said something bad about every major country in the anglosphere of the internet, downvotes are to be expected.
If I had to guess, it would probably be because what they said was the equivalent of “fuck every country, fuck everyone”.
If I said that, for example, I’d probably be downvoted too.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 22:34
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We can’t even get a handle on our current administration who the leader is a known pedophile, murderer, rapist, grifter, and all around POS.
Trump kidnapped a foreign leader. Let that sink in.
BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 19:15
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It’s not just the Republicans tho. Obama bombed 8 countries in a year in 2016.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 22:32
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We’re not blaming Biden anymore? Was there a memo I haven’t seen going around or something. I’m always out of the loop on who to blame for trump’s fucked up doings.
Trump’s recent meddling and murder in Venezuela is the culmination of two hundred of years of American foreign policy that both Democrats and Republicans have condoned at the behest of their corporate overlords. The Venezuela debacle is not a Trump thing. It’s an American thing that has its roots in the Monroe doctrine, and yes, including Obama.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
on 05 Jan 23:29
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Soooooooo, Biden is off the table now is what you’re saying. Fuck, that memo must keep getting lost in transit.
Bombing a country isnt inherently a bad thing. Those strikes were conducted with the support of regional allies against terrorist orgs. But I know people like you never miss an opportunity to take attention away from Trump and point it towards democrats.
SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml
on 05 Jan 23:40
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That actually says the opposite. That link says that Obama didnt intend to strike the hospital nor did the general and it was struck due equipment malfuntion and the info relayed to the strike crew causing it to get identified as a similar looking Taliban-controlled building. So a lower level chain of command and procedure failure. Operating in that theater and ordering those strikes was still the correct thing to do.
You can even look at the response once they realised the mistake. Trump’s admin would never do anything close to that.
Imagine not reading past the first paragraph of “proof” you provide. Glad I’m not them. Wild world.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 05 Jan 07:39
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the same NYT that dint bother reporting the attack, because they recieved the info days before it from the trump administration. NYT AND POST are cupable as well.
The exact timeline is not the point. The point is that the two most venerated American newspapers received information that the US was about to do something blatantly illegal and decided not to report this. But we’ve known for a long time that both of them (and all major media outlets in the US) are equivalent to state media anyway, so it’s not surprising.
Sure if I had to bet, neither publication would report it in advance. But for the sake of argument:
2 days - plenty of time to spread the news cycle, form public debate, or debate in Congress. Government has to make a decision
30 minutes - troops in the air, if any US soldiers get killed and/or the mission fails perception will be that the blood is on the publication’s hands, along with calls for treason charges.
Again I doubt they’re reporting, but exact timeline does impact how I view their decision not to report.
I see your point but still think you’re choosing the most charitable interpretation. I choose not to be charitable to two news giants who have helped provide support and cover for starting multiple disastrous wars of aggression that killed countless people.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 17:12
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Crazy that they’d have a tip off before the Congressional Gang of Eight, especially in light of Lucky Palmer’s assertion that Congress needed to be kept in the dark to prevent leaks.
Real “which side are you on, boys?” moment.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 10:40
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America is the modern European empire, just moved over. Europe is a vassal state of America, btw.
myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip
on 05 Jan 14:19
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Trump is still a pedophile. Don’t forget that. This is not a distraction from the Epstein files.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 17:11
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Trump is still a pedophile.
Jeffery Dahmer is a cannibal, but that’s sort of secondary to the large number of murders.
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 05 Jan 15:32
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Tbh maduro is a stupid person, and while this is a violation to international laws, he deserves to be in jail for life after all crimes against humanity on 2014 strikes. I do not feel bad by his faith. The best scenario would be the venezuelan people make justice, but regime had all the state forces. What option do they had???
You mean against Trummp… have you actually tried ANYTHING? maybe start by organizing one of those cutesy marches on a weekday
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:36
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It’s your country idc.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 17:23
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Maduro is bad, but that’s not what this is about. It’s about extrajudicial killings by the US military, and the kidnapping of a foreign head of state. Even if he’s evil and deserves it, that doesn’t give the US the right to do it. If the world comes together and decides it’s necessary, that’s one thing. Unilaterally invading, murdering civilians, and kidnapping a head of state and their spouse is not okay in any circumstance.
And the worst thing we can do is turn a blind eye to it just because Maduro is evil, because that tells the US that they can do whatever they want as long as they pretend to do it for noble reasons.
We did that with Iraq and that was one of the biggest clusterfucks in modern history, costing hundreds of thousands of lives, trillions of dollars, and destabilizing the entire region while fueling anti-American sentiment and Islamist extremism for decades.
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:23
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They were in a catch 22 situation: the last elections were a fraudulent shitshow, and as the dictator has every state power literally Venezuela people can’t just vote for other party. It’s not like in US where you have sort of democracy. The venezuelan army is an active political actor and can force people one way or another.
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:29
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Finally this is different. There isn’t a religious background in this war not even a nationalist background. Venezuelan people are very affected and even embarrassed about their nationality. They are seen as beggars, homeless people by the rest of south america. Morale is very low and a lot are supporting US now.
Maduro may have needed to go, but that isn’t Trump’s decision to make unilaterally. And by allowing Trump to do this we’re giving him permission to enact his will anywhere. Drugs also come from Mexico, can he invade them? How about Minnesota? What if he decided that Greenland deserves freedom from Europe?
And if Trump can do it, why shouldn’t Xi be allowed to invade Taiwan? And what the hell - let’s let Putin have Finland and Netanyahu have Jordan, so long as they super duper totally believe they’re liberating people.
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 03:09
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I am glad if Taiwan happens tbh. Hardware nowadays is only for the 6 big corpos. Look RAM crisis, entire memory crisis.
demonsword@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 17:30
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he deserves to be in jail for life after all crimes against humanity
All former US presidents still alive should be Maduro’s jail buddies then.
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:25
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I don’t care, I’m not in US I’m latino and I am sort of alleviated.
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:35
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Tell me one thing of the many bad things Maduro did towards Venezuelans that would improve as a colony under a pedophile raging mad narcissist?
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:21
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I am living in south america, I’m latino and I can talk with all argument: it will improve dramatically once the dictator has fallen. Vzla is the country with largest oil reserves and still living in extreme poverty. In 2014 strikes how many people was killed, tortured, disappeared, even violated. The last elections where a shitshow, and almost all observers said there were fraud. So yeah
He deserves everything he’s gonna have.
again, how is any of that going to improve? the orange pedophile is doing the same to his own people, do you really think he’ll respect human rights of Venezuelans?
I am not saying Maduro was good in any way, but Venezuelans just fell from the frying pan into the fire but seem too close to see it
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:34
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Ok not sure what you are talking about here… but in any case, the USA is just going to do what it always does, steal the oil, make the big oil companies richer, still sell gas expensive to everyone… that is not helping Venezuelans in anyway
BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 19:25
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Does Trump deserve to be in jail after raping minors on the Epstein Island?
pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 01:30
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This is US trouble.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 18:24
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“But they’re celebrating.”
Yeah, if a foreign nation did a military operation and abducted Trump to face a trial for his crimes Americans would be in the streets celebrating.
But the celebration is going to be short when they realize their futures are now dictated by a felon rapist pedophile who’s crashing his own nation’s economy and violating his own citizen’s rights.
BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world
on 05 Jan 19:14
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Did Venezuelans vote for Trump? I thought America loved democracy.
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com
on 05 Jan 19:41
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It seems that enshittification with a few small tweaks can be resold as “Gaza-morgified”
Acting surprised after seeing the unlimited support by USA, Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, UAE, India, China, Russia, Ukraine support for genociding the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank is funny to me.
Now we see Canadian and Mexican afraid to even call the US out because no one will come to rescue them if the US did the same. And they deserve it.
Nothing lower to me than killing children and babies, so my expectations are non existing for such government and people.
It is funny because Trump talks so much shit about the press, but they got his back. It is pretty sad to watch, but we have known for decades that the independent press is a lie in the US.
threaded - newest
Fuck amrikkka
Fucking terrorist hell hole of a nation
Amrikkka is the satan
Burn this country down
It’s the United Snake
The AfD is on the way to run the show, like many far right factions in many nation states of Europe.
The only way to stop tyranny is to stand up to it, and angry lemmy posts won’t do that. The danger is always much closer than the “foreigners” so many xenophobes like to point out.
Once tyranny is in power the resistance needs support, not condemnation. I thought this was known 80 years ago, apparently not so much today.
Such bullshit. They are tiny parties that very few agree with that are being supported by the US in the name of “free speech”, so just fuck right off with that and stop believing what you read on X
Reuters covered the election where they landed 152 of the bundestag seats, just behind the majority of CDU/CSU with 208 seats. https://www.reuters.com/world/germany/german-election-2025-updates-2025-02-23/
To say they are a “tiny party” is nuts. It doesn’t matter if an ultra minority support them, because a sizable portion vote for them.
The exceptions make the rule, Donald Trump alone did this bypassing all safeguards the USA put in place to prevent this sort of thing.
Republicans could have held him responsible at any time. Republicans could have blocked any of this at any point. Trump alone was a narcicistic fool with fragile masculinity. Republicans made him the threat he is. Far too many Democrats failed to take things seriously too.
Democrats had no power to do anything about this because the DNC haven’t had more than 48 senators in the last 13 years.
Republicans are all bad and all complicit, with that I agree, but I would easily say Donald Trump is the worst of them and anybody else in the party would be a lesser evil than him.
Right, yet many like Fetterman etc were confirming his goons etc. They still bear responsibility, even if it’s less. They failed to treat the situation with the appropriate respect and responses that it deserved. Instead, behaving like everything was still normal. which is still fucked up at best.
Fetterman is a brain-damaged moron who can’t be recalled. When every single DNC, Independent, and 3 Republicans voted against Pete Hegseth, he was confirmed anyways. If the DNC held a real majority then he would not have been, nor would several Trump SCOTUS picks, that’s exactly what I’m talking about.
you would still run into DINOs like SCHUMER, slotkin, and 10+others.
Those dusty bastards can’t compromise if there is nothing to compromise on, DNC having the members to write, call to vote, and pass legislature would be a night and day difference.
The reason they don’t hold a majority is exactly because they refuse to take anything seriously. Much less the desires of the voters. And it wasn’t just Fetterman he and Shaheen were definitely the worst. Hassan, Kelly, Tim fucking Kane the former VP nominee, Gilibrand, Klobuchar, Peters, Slotkin, Warnock, Hickenlooper, goddamned Corey Booker!? Yes they voted against the worst of the worst. They just voted for the worst and got nothing but shame to show for it.
Hah! Just saw this. Kelly won an extra prize. Shame and a pension cut!
Pretty sure its because they attempted but failed to ban money from congress after the 2010 SCOTUS decision and have been fighting the combined PR strength of monied interests, Russia, China, and Racism.
The DNC want to forgive student debt, tax the rich, expand medical to everyone, and generally be better people in terms of foreign policy.
And? I mean, yeah. They did attempt those things, which was good. Would have been better if they had accomplished any of them. But that’s not at all the reason voters didn’t vote for them.
Voters didn’t vote for them because no one who had Biden’s ear. Got through to him till far too late for any sort of primary to run. Then they dumped the wet rag known as Kamala on us. Who continued to fail to inspire or listen to anyone on anything, especially regarding Palestine.
They accomplished some of them when they had power, over 13 years ago.
I’m honestly not sure if you’re trolling or just incredibly ignorant about US American history. America is constantly invading other countries, inciting and supporting coups, stealing resources, murdering civilians. It’s just what they do, have done historically, and will continue to do
Alright but so did the Vikings and the Spartans but we don’t refer to it as a Viking Empire or the Spartan Empire because that’s not what the word means. Making an Empire means claiming territories as your own and colonizing foreign lands.
EDIT: Had my comment threads mixed up earlier. Not going to fix it.
It’s that one every time
Just like when he attacked Iran dems are only upset they weren’t informed before and allowed to vote yes, not that he did the illegal actions…
Then again we haven’t had an official war since WW2 so not like safe guards were doing anything before
TBH if congress were aware of the operation in Venezuela I would probably be happy about it, fuck Maduro and every other anti-democracy bastard.
But that’s not the reality of the situation. The reality is Trump did something highly illegal.
So just like the dems only upset that our president attacked a sovereign nation, took their leader and now claims ownership of, because he didn’t let the dems give him pre approval.
Again only upset at the illegal act of not notifying congress beforehand.
Trump might claim ownership, but nothing has actually been done to enforce it. Rubio says he’s expecting Maduro’s people, VP Delcy Rodriguez, to start playing ball as they are now in charge. Hell, they apparently didn’t even try to inform Gonzalez or Machado beforehand to install one of them.
According to the pentagon, for what little their word is worth, there are no US Troops left in Venezuela.
Again only care about the paperwork not the actions. And he doesn’t care about Machado so why would he tell her anything.
In order to install a puppet leader. If only because of Trump’s incompetence, Venezuela is still governed by Maduro’s faction.
So it would be better if he had put a terrible person who wants to sell off her countries assets?
I’m not sure how you’re confused about what my stance is, I’ve been very concise, consistent, and vocal about my beliefs.
What Trump did is illegal and wrong and he should be removed and punished.
Also, it’s a good thing that Maduro got taken out, fuck that guy.
If DNC were in charge then none of this shit would be happening and the world would be a better place. Calling for the destruction of the USA is a foolish simpleton ideal that will cause more death and suffering.
You just don’t like having your beliefs shown to you.
Again just like when Iran was attacked they were only upset they didn’t get to vote yes not that the attacks happened
Yeah, Iranian leaders and soldiers are human bags of shit and it is Congress’ sole responsibility to use as much force as they deem necessary for a better future.
Therefore it’s okay to bomb or kill civilians?
First of all, the fuck does that have to do with crimes that Trump did?
Secondly, there are fights I would be willing to fight on the frontline, such as fighting against Russia or China. Every inch we let them take now is a mile we have to defend later.
Idk how else you take it as approval to kill civilians like what happened in Iran.
Oh so you do want to go join soliders to kill civilians
Was this Iran attack you’re referencing an approved act of war by congress? If yes, that’s fine, if not, that was illegal. It’s not rocket science, you should be able to figure this out.
Soldiers and Politicians are not Civilians. If China, Russia, and Iranian aggression sparks a war then they’re as much to blame for the consequences. Fuck Around, Find Out.
So yes if the paper work is in order you don’t care who is killed.
How can you not see that?
Unless it’s the US at the approval of congress according to you.
Again stop the bullshit and admit that you are fine with the actions of trump just not how he does them
You know, it’s really annoying that you can just claim the opponent holds a stance even when they specifically deny the allegation.
For example, I hear that you enjoy feeding babies to wolves in ritualistic sacrifice. Why do you do this?
Yes quoting you claiming the opposite of what you send.
And I it’s you being rhetorical but would. It be surprised if you were feeding babies to wolves to help dnc
I’ve never contradicted what I said, you repeatedly claim I would condone violence done to civilians when I’ve repeatedly specifiec soldiers and politicians of the hostile regimes.
See? Look, right there, you’re belittling me for not sacrificing babies like you do. Why do you do this thing? Who are you praying to with these infanticides?
if the attack was legal then it’s okay.
Amazingly terrible reading comprehension as usual
Why wolves specifically?
Probably because you think Trump is the wolf in the hen house rather than think that it’s always how the president has acted, just usually with an actual PR team
So the wolves you kill children for represent Putin? Would you sacrifice babies to some other animal in the absence of wolves? Would a bear not make more sense?
…tenor.com/…/so-blissfully-unaware-catherine-ohar…
Fuck off calling it an “operation”
Yes, very Russian. It’s America’s own “special military operation”.
Or like when the Korean war was called a “Police Action”
It is 100% an act of war, it’s even a very obvious indisputable act of war. Yet we see European leaders refusing to call it so. 😡
A war crime and a terrorist operation.
Can’t really call it a war if the other side is barely fighting back. It’s just bullying and terrorism.
War crimes apply regardless whether a conflict is international or even whether it’s a declared war. The US never declared war in Vietnam, but nobody can deny the My Lai massacre was a war crime.
They’re dogs and vassals of the empire. Of course they aren’t biting the hand that feeds.
I doubt it’s just the Israelis who have compromision photos of top European politicians fucking little kids that they got using operations like Epstein’s.
Of course not Russia does too, what I was saying was that CIVILIZED countries don’t behave like that.
Yeah, well, look at Britain which had a massive demonstration of half a million people against the Genocide in Gaza and yet their supposedly “leftwing” “moderate” government is arresting people for “terrorism support” when they demonstrate against it.
The people ARE civilized, it’s their elites (political or otherwise) which are unreformed barbarians by comparison, especially in those countries were the structures of power mean such people have been an entrenched and unchallenged elite for generations.
So I would say that the countries are CIVILIZED, however they’re controlled by elites whose minset is still the same as the ancient monsters from the past (hence why, for example, British governments and Press have a mindset of colonialism towards the outside and “born to rule” towards their own citizens whilst German governments and Press support the Genocide of a “lesser people by a greater people” and both deploy authoritarian means to suppress dissent even tough they’re supposedly Democracies).
This is also why I expect plenty of members of those elites will have broken the ultimate tabu of our era - they have the same principles of the ruling elites of centuries past, feel themselves above the law and firmly believe everybody else are nothing more than tools for their own personal upsides - including pleasure - and for many that would include children.
PS: As I see it, the solution for the problems in Democracies is MORE Democracy (more transparency, more accountability, more independent oversight, more variety and change) but we’re going in the opposite direction and the actions of the ruling elites in the US and the support from the political elites in certain countries for that all matches with the moving away from Democracy towards Might Is Right and Authoritarianism
I 100% agree with that last part but:
Not really, if the British people were civilized they would have introduced democracy instead of the bullshit excuse they have for it now.
And they would have removed the house of lords which is an extremely undemocratic and moronic institution.
In Danish Lord and lort are very close verbally, and lort means shit. So to me it’s the shit house.
But that’s not the only problem, first past the post is also undemocratic and is creating a system dominated by 2 parties that take turns governing, this is not democracy but at best a deeply dysfunctional democracy, and is as bad as USA only realistically having 2 options when they vote.
UK is so behind as a society, compared to other Western European countries, the only way they may appear good is by comparison to USA. UK inherited a strong economy from the early days of industrialization, and the colonies, without that UK would have been as poor and backwards as Ireland was prior to joining EU.
In UK that is way more the case than other European countries, because the population accept it. The continued existence of the house of lords is clear evidence of that.
But again ONLY because the population is accepting it. No other European country will have you arrested for peaceful demonstrations, and I agree it’s an atrocity that this continues under a labour government. And I agree it is a result of the people having lost power because democracy in UK isn’t working.
Yet the solution is only a few hundred kilometers away, with plenty examples of better democracies in Europe, IMO especially the Scandinavian model.
First I mainly agree with you: I lived in Britain as in immigrant for a decade, which was preceded by a decade living in The Netherlands, and my opinion of Britons (especially the English, more so their upper middle class and above) is very negative by comparison with my opinion of the Dutch in general and my impression of British society by the time I left was basically “The country of Europe closest to Fascism, only it’s disguised with posh bollocks from posh people with a posh accent”.
However this shit the current government is doing there of arresting people demonstrating against the Genocide as “terrorist supporters” doesn’t have the support of most of the population. Further, 1.5% of the people of a country coming out in a demonstration for the benefit of completely different people and in no way whatsoever for their own personal benefit shows that at last that many people over there have incredibly strong principles.
It doesn’t prove that most people are quite that good people, but it still seems to me that most aren’t quite as bad as being deemed uncivilized.
As I see it, the point you’re making is really that pretty much the entirety of the non-elites there lack a spine, both as people and as a group - hence not doing much to overthrow the power structures of that country - which is not the same as not being civilized people, though as we can see both path lead to similar outcomes in situations like this one.
Frankly, I couldn’t agree more with that view! Countless experiences I’ve had over there speak of subservience towards the upper classes and even towards society in general (the level of concern with “what will other people think of me” there, especially amongst Middle Class women, is quite extreme when compared with, for example, the Dutch) and maybe explains why they’re so good at Theatre: a lot of people over there spend their lives behind a thick complex façade so it’s unsurprising when so many make a hobby and even a profession from it.
Further, they’re relentlessly indoctrinated with both Nationalism and Respect For Authority (in other words, for the elite dynasties) by the local Press, which is maybe why the Brits are actually the least trusting in the local Press of all of Europe.
However, lack of a spine - which in my opinion is mainly a learned trait from growing up in such a society - though not exactly positive in Psychological and Freedom terms, isn’t the same as being uncivilized.
Yes there are some, but it’s a minority, you have to judge a country by the majority and their government. Because those are the ones representing the country.
There can be exceptions where the people are oppressed, with military force, but UK is NOT such a country.
No individuals are individuals and have different traits, this is 100% as the group we call UK.
I would argue that having something like the house of lords is an expression of being uncivilized as a country.
Again the people consist of individuals, but as a group of people we call UK they definitely have traits in their society that are immoral and to me immoral equals uncivilized.
Now all countries can have elements that are immoral, the problem with UK is that it has elements that are deeply fundamental to their society, much like USA.
Again, your entire point is around them not having succeeded in overthrowing a massive, complex, centuries old, highly resilient power structure which amongst other things indoctrinates them from an early age into compliance and even pride in it.
Things over there are massivelly rigged exactly to stop such a change, an many levels, from the First Past The Post voting system and a Press incredibly consolidated and either in the hands of either billionaires or controlled by the upper class boards, to the whole Public School -> Oxbridge -> Top Level Corporate/Legal/Public Service Position pathway that that makes sure the scions of the elites always end up in control of the rest.
Further, in many ways that structure has been cracking due to internal pressure, though as shown the last time it was really under pressure (following WWII and the return of large numbers of working class people with military trainin) it showed massive flexibility which is how Brits got the NHS, Social Security and even a Gilded Age in the Arts (from all the working class kids that flooded into Music and Theatre) during the 60s and 70s, though all those gains have been slowly been undone, especially since Thatcher got into power.
So you’re basically saying that when peasants don’t assault the fortress they’re uncivilized a logic which ultimately (considering that there is always room for improvement) boils down to “Only Violent Revolution is Civilization”
Lets agree to disagree on that.
The constitution was supposed to be a living document, that was supposed to be improved upon.
This is the exact opposite of your claim. USA was supposed to improve, Americans just chose not to do that.
We’re talking about Britain, not the US.
Britain doesn’t even have a written constitution.
Oh sorry for the mixup, mistook it for another line of debate.
But still other countries have had similar systems and changed them. Including my own country, that also used to have a 2 part parliament similar to what UK has now.
That was changed in 1953 after more than a hundred years. Here they were called first and second chamber, and that two part distinction had existed since the 16 hundreds, from before we had democracy.
I don’t see why it would be harder to modernize in UK than other countries. Except for the British exceptionalism, and the British holding almost religiously on to their traditions.
Sure, my country too had a revolution and overthrew a Fascist dictatorship. That doesn’t make it a measure of civilization though.
I’ve lived in several countries of Europe and the web controlling Brits is exceptional in its breadth and depth and quite subtle: for example watch the BBC and look for language that subtly classifies different people as having different implicity trustworthiness, for example how they will report Israeli authorities as “saying” or “stating” things whilst Palestinian authorities “claim” things - this kind of technique is not just used for the Israeli Genocide, it’s used for everything and pretty hard to internally compensate for even if you’re aware of it because it mainly affects you at a subconscious level. Brits are constantly being indoctrinated and manipulated, all done with way more subtlety than run of the mill dictatorships.
Or look at how their level of civil society surveillance as shown by the Snowden Revelations was even worse than the US.
Further, do you know they have a Press censorship scheme called D-Notices? Most Britons don’t even know this.
In many ways Britain is a lot more like an Authoritarian Regime with a bit of performative voting (think Russia) than a Democratic country, only it’s all done way more subtly with far more advanced manipulation techniques as the structures supporting it have been developed over, literally, centuries.
(That’s why I said that I left the country thinking it was basically the closest to Fascism we have in Europe, just disguised as posh)
Yet plenty of people over there still have very strong principles to the point that 1.5% of the population went out and demonstrated purely for their principles and not at all their own personal good and people are still going out and risking being arrested by the government as “terrorist supporters” for demonstrating against a Genocide that doesn’t actually affect them personally.
Granted, at the same time there is also a large fraction of the population who are complete cunts, from Financiers in the City and the Political class, to Racist Nationalists.
Don’t get me wrong: British Society itself is quite backwards as European nations go in many things, it’s just that a significant fraction of the population do hold personal humanist values and are willing to at least go out and demonstrate and even face the authorities for them. I compare it with my own country - Portugal - whose society isn’t quite as ill (it has its problems, mainly different ones) but activism for actual principle around here is almost non-existent (sure, people will demonstrate and even strike for their own personal good, but for example a far smaller fraction of people was demonstrating against the Israeli Genocide here than in Britain) and don’t get me started on just hugely unlikely people around here are to do thinks like avoiding having a car for Ecological reasons.
PS: In fact, now that I think about it, a lot of the reason why I think that Revolutionary Capability is not the same as Civilization is the observation on my own country of how people can be perfectly capable of fighting for themselves to the point of overthrowing a dictatorship and yet won’t at all fight for others. In my view, “civilization” must include fighting against certain things happenning to anybody and only just fighting against those things happenning to oneself is merely Survival.
I must admit I am not nearly as informed about Portugal as I am about Northern Europe. But despite that I know they have some pretty strong policies protecting the weaker parts of civilization and workers, as misunderstood as they may sometimes be compared to the Scandinavian model that seems to work better.
The Portuguese may not be protesting as much as the Brits, but I don’t think the Portuguese system is as inherently bad as is the case for UK. In Portugal most things can be improved through the democratic process. Denmark is also a country that has a very low degree of protests, and I believe that coincides with being one of the best democracies in the word. If it works don’t fix it.
But apart from that, I agree with you.
I think we differ mainly in that I think that in this era Civilization must be broader than just “Doing what’s better for us”.
So in that sense the Scandinavian model of governance by itself (absent all else), whilst more civilized than most others, isn’t enough for Civilization - there needs to be some kind of broad holding of Universal Humanist Principles rather than merelly just the nation treating its own citizens well.
By that metric and looking at the awful position of Denmark in regards to the Israeli Genocide and even in things like pushing for broad civil society surveillance at the EU level in the form of Chat Control, Denmark is NOT a civilized country, even if it’s better for its own citizens than the vast majority of countries are for theirs.
I agree, and those principles are the basis for the welfare system, healthcare for all, livable minimum wage etc.
But also all EU countries are committed to those, it is mandatory for being a member of EU.
UK has a long history of not respecting such values particularly with their colonialism, and not letting go until they couldn’t hold onto it anymore.
USA has a similar problem with slavery way beyond what was acceptable in other countries that called themselves civilized. USA has even gone so far as to keep oppressing minorities, first with less voting power, but later exploited as cheap labor, which is probably why we see such a low minimum wage even today.
Take those general humanitarian principles, and you will see the leading democracies also being leading in humanitarian values. An example obviously being the Scandinavian countries. Just as authoritarian countries have disregard for humanitarian values.
We see that clearly in both USA and UK that are both dysfunctional democracies.
And what awful position is that? Denmark has not helped Israel in their genocide, there was a reaction against the Hamas terrorist attack a couple of years ago, but the tune has changed a lot since that. I agree that personally I think our prime ministers initial reaction was disgusting and tone deaf 100% supporting Israel (but only morally and at the time), but Denmark has not supported Israel in their violent attacks on Palestine. And Denmark has also criticized Israel very strongly, and OFFICIALLY accused Israel of genocide in for instance UN.
The knee jerk reaction to support Israel is something that most western democracies suffer from, we were responsible for the creation of Israel, and somehow see it as our responsibility to protect Israel. Although Israel has become the villain we originally wanted to protect them against.
But Denmark is in no way like either USA in this situation, that have laws that they are required to protect Israel. Those laws may have seemed like a good idea at the time, but in this situation they need to be removed.
Lets put things this way: nations which hold Universal Humanist Principles will always treat their citizens well (or at least as well as they can), but nations which treat their citizens well don’t necessarily hold Universal Humanist Principles.
As for the rest, it’s just circling back to my original point that few or no nations are civilized, but the citizens in some nations are civilized whilst the elites holding power are not.
Good to know Denmark has changed its position in the Genocide. When are the sanctions on Israel starting?!
I also noticed you didn’t address my point on Denmark’s government push for broad civil society surveillance for all of the EU with Chat Control, something which in my view is the very opposite of “civilized” in the modern era.
Europe is America’s bitch. Europeans aren’t ready to accept it yet lol
I like Trumps term. He called it a strike.
Two more and he’s out, right?
I fear he is playing bowling, not baseball.
Meanwhile trump has reaffirmed his calls to annex greenland: www.usatoday.com/story/news/…/88018306007/
Trump is everything bad about a psychopath, sociopath and narcissist.
Rolled up in what we call malignant narcissist. He has complete disregard for other people, and he has absolutely no conscience, and he expects to be worshiped.
Fuck Americans for making him president twice.
Just the way he spoke about watching it happening live and comparing it to a good TV show says a lot about his mental state.
A key element of narcissism is that nothing really matters except the one person. The world is basically just something that happens and should always center around them. He’s one of the biggest narcissists to ever exist so suffering and pain in others means nothing to him. It never has and never will.
We’re all stuck in a shitty reality show going on in his head.
It’s why I disowned my family. I am so bitter about it
Sorry to hear you lost your family to a cult.
In Denmark we have 12 parties in parliament, and none of them are as bad as the Republicans. Because none of them would remove healthcare for all.
I don’t think most Americans really understand how extreme the Republicans are, even without Trump!
USA has gone mad as a society, and see the selfishness of rich Republicans as an expression of freedom.
It is not all Americans that are mad, but like when a person has terminal cancer, it is not all cells in the body that are cancerous, but it’s enough to make the cancer terminal.
USA still has good people and even remarkable people, but unfortunately they are a minority.
As a Dane whose brother works in Nuuk 2-4 months a year, I’m not a fan of those plans, actually. I’d rather he not, tbh.
Jeg er vild med dit brugernavn, broder
Tak 😁
Don’t worry, he won’t let them vote!
I don’t think he realises that Greenland is part of Denmark and therefore part of NATO. I don’t think they realise that any attack on Greenland would invoke article 5.
The only people that mentioned taking Greenland with military force are those complete idiots who know absolutely nothing about them being part of NATO.
Their only hope can be for the people of Greenland to have a referendum to leave Denmark and join the USA. But they have already expressed multiple times that they are not interested in joining the USA.
All this is right now is just empty talk seeking popularity points.
So unless America wants to leave NATO and start a war with it, it’s not gonna happen.
I mean is there any provision if one nato country attacks another then what happens? realistically I dont think even united europe could do much to US militarily, until they all sanction them heavily.
Yep, it’s all kinds of fucked up. Europe certainly can’t afford to fight both the USA and Russia.
I’m absolutely certain if the EU went to war with the USA, Russia would take advantage and invade all the eastern Europe, while the USA is attacking the west.
The most that could happen is throwing out the USA from NATO.
Considering the new york crimes reporting on gaza multiply that number by 10. The American Pedophile crime syndicate state media will always minimize war crimes.
How morally curropt a society have to be to be ruled by literal pedophiles waging wars for oil.
Fuck this shit
If we manage to escape the trump dictatorship, every soldier involved needs to be court-martialed and sentenced for following illegal orders.
This made me laugh. This is the same shit we’ve been doing for 100 years. “Illegal orders” aren’t a thing when you use your imperial military to do imperialism. The last time we had a President that wasn’t a war criminal was never.
Harrison!
Even Harrison?
Yeah this is more like a return to the norm, just more blatant and overt. And even earlier than 100 years, before America was strong enough to reach out into the world and do this to other countries, it was manifest destiny against the indigenous. You won’t find a corner of this planet unmolested by American imperialism, and the hardest hit are still problems that persist to this day.
Whether it’s the Panama Canal, the Monroe doctrine, the Banana republics, or atrocities in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos. Intervening in civil wars and conflicts that would eventually create Taiwan and South Korea and Israel as American vassal states built with the purpose of serving American interests. Fomenting a coup in Iran over oil which would usher in the Iranian revolution, or smashing Iraq which created a power vacuum for isis to form. Wherever and whenever America reaches out into the world, death and destruction will typically follow. And if it isn’t leaving a shattered and broken state for whoever is left to pick up the pieces, then it’s funding and arming one side of a war to create a satellite state to enrich itself which leaves a conflict ready to reignite at any moment.
And then we should get all the world leaders in a big room and tell them they’re being bad. Then they’ll all sing and hold hands and stop all wars. And then later my mommy can make us all dino nuggies and we can watch Trollhunters on Netflix.
Y’know… Of all the ridiculously stupid improbable absurdity that’s happened…
… I’m kinda down for that one over whatever the frick we’re living through at the moment lol.
Your mom sounds cool. Call her and tell her she’s cool. ❤️
The USA has done this many times (captured or even murdered heads of state, and anyone else they wish to), there has never been a court martial and nobody has ever been punished.
If you know of any exceptions, please share.
This never happened in US history and I don’t think americans have the spine to do anything even remotely close to this.
FYI US soldiers involved in illegal orders in the USA are almost never court-martialed or even put on trial. The only one I can think of actually being convicted is the Mai Lai massacre way back in 1968. The US has become consistently more brazen in its flaunting of international law regarding war crimes and any policing of its armed forces through subsequent administrations since.
In fact its very rare for US troops or even military contractors brazenly ignoring orders and committing war crimes to even be put on trial, let alone be convicted. The most recent incident I can think of is the four Blackwater contractors during ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’ that massacred 17 unarmed Iraqi civilians and injured 20 in Baghdad city. There was such overwhelming evidence in the case that they were convicted by a US court of murder (one member) and manslaughter (the other three) in 2014.
Even that was an unacceptable level of accountability for the Republicans, so Trump gave them all presidential pardons in his first term in 2020.
They don’t even prosecute foreign war criminals, much less their own. US Nuremberg trails had a <0.2% conviction rate for identified war criminals lol. Less than 1% of “major war criminals”.
Criminal cops are paid instead of convicted.
There is 0 hope for any justice at all for these people unless the entire US government gets overthrown or something just as drastic.
Sadly, we won’t.
You could march them in fucking shackles to the Hague and they would just handwave them away. Nobody is coming to fucking save us, and the sooner people wake the fuck up and realize that, the sooner we can start organizing valuable and competent community defense networks.
Cute. Won’t happen.
Nope. But it should.
This is what you voted for protest-non-voters.
The amount of people who voted republican completely obliterates the tiny fraction of people who abstained from voting democrat. How about directing focus where it’s relevant?
I am informing protest-non-voters what they voted for.
Republican voters voted for this. Non-voters didn’t vote, hence the name. I can’t believe I have to tell you this. Even if there wasn’t a single non-voter, nothing would’ve changed. Try directing your douchebag attitude towards those who are actually responsible.
In our first past the post system with only 2 parties, the non-voters did vote for this.
Republicans by and large know what they voted for. Protest-non-voters need to be informed what they in fact voted for, as you demonstrate.
Ah yes see you’re looking to assign responsiblity. Again, I am informing protest-non-voters what they voted for.
I agree that saying “non-voters voted for” anything is basically absurd, but people sitting on the couch rather than voting did affect the outcome of the 2024 election. A bit over three million fewer people voted in 2024 than 2020.
Yes, the second and first most voted elections in your nations history. Clearly it is the small number of voters that are not supportive of the only two options at fault.
Managed democracy is meant to be a joke, but the real joke is the attitude on display from americans that somehow still think they live in a democracy.
Bro just wants someone to blame to avoid facing responsibility.
Responsibility for someone else’s vote?
All the people making excuses for why their vote clearly didn’t matter so they were better off not voting obviously aren’t making excuses themselves. That would be silly!
Non voters voted for this by virtue of being too stupid to know how our system works. They deserve responsibility.
Every non-voter was fine with this outcome because they couldn’t sack up and make the less bad choice. If you see a car coming towards a child in the road and do nothing you are still partly responsible if they get hit. They allowed it to happen through their inaction.
They totally care
Knowledge is power.
There’s been polling analysis that showed if you forced everyone to vote then Harris would have lost to Trump by an even bigger margin due to the unpopularity of the administration at the time. Nonvoters didn’t make a difference. Michigan was won by Trump by a bigger margin than all college students or Arabs or Muslims or any other minority group in the state.
I think you’re trying to assign blame. Again, I am informing non-protest-voters what they voted for.
— Omar El-Akkad, One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This, correction mine
That argument works when the difference is small.
That argument doesn’t work when one option is a cataclysmic disaster
But most importantly - when you look at what policies that Trump voters said they voted for, you could divide that into a fraction of voters voting for evil (plain stupid racists), and a large fraction voting for something positive which they had been told Trump would deliver - yet which he was objectively worse at. Most people voted Trump for the economy while told he was a great businessman, or for healthcare while told he’d make health insurance more affordable (but now he made it less), etc…
Almost every positive impact in the last decades that his voters attributed to him was delivered by his opposition.
This wasn’t an election lost to attrition. Your quote explains nothing about what happened.
There was more votes than ever. It was lost to propaganda and people being idiots, not seeing through the fraud. Trump’s policies lost every poll when names were taken off. Everything he wanted to do kept being rejected. But the propaganda machine made people distrust the people who delivered all the things they said they were grateful for, and to trust the liar instead.
Implying that a Harris/second Biden administration wouldn’t be a cataclysmic disaster
Implying that any outcome where AmeriKKKa continues to exist and destroy our world wouldn’t be a cataclysmic disaster
If you can not understand a difference in scale then your school years was a cataclysmic disaster
Maybe they went to an Arkansas school, or any other american one that teaches people to only support the terrible system.
But hey! You voted right so you can be smug and its only fair you get to point your impotent rage at those who did not vote the way you did. And next time when the two parties are both somehow worse you can once again vote for the lesser evil!
You can move to a dictatorship if you want to be relieved of the option to vote wrong
Yeah! That is my point!
Bologna. There are not enough conservative voters in virtually any nation to win in an election that progressive voters actually turn out to. Conservatives only win when progressives don’t vote; conservatives NEVER don’t vote.
yeah but then how could libs feel smugly superior?
they’d rather blame the tiny fraction of people with principles rather than the third of the country that is actively fascist, because politically, they’re closer to the fascists
Because they are the ones that knew but chose to play some bullshit game instead of putting their shit aside for the reality they knew was there but just made them feel uncomfortable.
Its actually way worse in that way then the republicans who are nearly impossible to blame as they were and some still are totally convinced a fantasy reality was actually there at that time and can’t be held as accountable by blaming as much as they see it as a personal attack and it vindicates them if not put in language they understand.
Tell the republicans to fuck themselves and it helps to remind them they’re supporting a pedo and a warmongerer. Hold them accountable with specifics actions he’s done against them and why its bad. Not a general you shouldn’t have voted for him because fantasyland reasoning
You have to do their thinking for them entirely I’m learning, its like drugs, theyre addicted to people thinking for them, have to get them a healthy alternative to get them weaned so they can fend for themselves afterwards but not before that happens
Oh I know this one, its the two party system pretending to be a democracy right?
But I am things are bad because the wrong team is in power, and if they turn out to be great it is all due to the brave right team. But hey good thing you are there to “do their thinking for them entirely”!
Jesus your contextual reading needs work
Fox news ONN types need they’re thinking done for them.
You need therapy and a fucking wake up call. This is reality not some ideological victimhood posturing contest. The two party system controlled by the media and the monetary powers that be run this shitshow (along with Russian gov misinformation campaigning and other fucking useful idiots)
So spelled out. It was not a good time to take that fight and were all getting fucked up now because you fucked up your turn.
Figure if they come for you, your family or a loved one and send them to some hellhole that might that might help you understand that. But have fun winning your “The world has to work how I want it before I participate” award. Wasn’t worth it IMO.
Learn to play the actual game or get fucked by those that already do. Good fucking luck next turn. Do not fuck up this one
And you see no issues with this statement? You need the wake up call, you live in a hellscape that is actively making the world worse and just assume I do too. You and your american exceptionalism can go to hell. The best time to fight was before and the next best time is now.
Please do the world a favor and ether fix your shit nation or collapse already.
What’s the definition of insanity again? Something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
Well, I’ve been voting “blue no matter who” for damn near 30 years now, and shit has not changed for the better. Society has changed for the better in some ways, but that is not being represented in our government.
I’m starting to think my vote for Nader was the sanest thing I’ve ever done in my civic life.
I’d hardly take criticism from so called leftists regarding smugness.
Blaming “liberals” for not voting on “principle” (re: ego) while they sit on their asses telling everyone else to form an armed rebellion instead certainly aren’t smug bastards themselves.
The amount of people who sat home on voting day outweighs both republican and democrat voters. Apathy won the last presidential election, just like every election in recent memory.
Apathy is a tool of capital. If apathy is the reason, capitalism is the cause
While true, a Pew study found that “if all Americans eligible to vote in 2024 had cast ballots, the overall margin in the popular vote likely would not have been much different”.
pewresearch.org/…/behind-trumps-2024-victory-a-mo…
So, anyone continuing the “nonvoters did this” line can fuck off.
Encouraging more democratic leaning voters would’ve made a difference however, you don’t have to assume linear proportional effect
Also true, but much more easily said than done.
Which is exactly the job of the Democrat Party leaders, which is done via amongst other things offering potential voters the things they desire and assuaging their concerns, things which are clearly not “Unwavering support of Israel and its Genocide”, “Do whatever is good for Finance and Tech-bros” or “Supporting the Cheney family, legacy and political ideology”.
The people with by far the most power to convince leftwing leaning non-voters to vote for the Democrat Party were the Democrat Party leaders and they, with all that power they had, actually did the very opposite of trying to cater to the desires and concerns of such non-voters.
Yet around here whenever american politics pops up as a subject we get a rabid pack of mindless useful idiots blaming non-voters literally for not convincing themselves to vote for a party whose leaders activelly tried to reject them, never blaming those fucking leaders for activelly rejecting said potential voters.
Fuck the subservient, bootlicking Democrat Party tribalists who keep on excusing the profound incompetence and greed of their tribe’s “chiefs” and parroting the DNC propaganda line that pushes the blame to non-voters rather than accept that the blame for a fucking monster like Trump having been elected a second time is overwhelmingly of the DNC and the rest of the Democrat Party leadership who once again chose to “stay pretty close but just below” in the Evil scales from the Republicans
Maybe it’s not so obvious for those living inside America and its Politics, but from the outside it’s obvious that both of Trump’s presidential election victories are the end product of decades of the Democrat Party leadership getting away with representing ever fewer people whilst relying on a “vote lesser evil” strategy, all of which supported by the very same useful idiots who now, once again, come out relentlessly parroting the “everybody but ourselves is to blame” mindless bullshit that only an acephalic tribalist muppet would believe.
It is fucking obvious for anybody who knows just a bit of World History that Trump or somebody like him was bound to be elected sooner or later in the US when the strategy of the competing political force there was nothing more than invariably sidding with the handful of moneyed elites just limited by the need to stay just one step below in the Ladder of Evil from the other political force.
So enjoy the Fall Of The Empire you created for yourselves (by supporting a “Greater Evil” vs “Lesser evil” political power structure) and for the other 340 million people over there, whilst the rest of us batters the hatches and endures the side effects of the “Empire overextending itself militarily whilst the homeland becomes ever empoverished and authoritarian” phase of such Fall until America fizzles in power (if you’re lucky) or breaks up.
“tiny fraction of people” millions of registered D voters sat it out
The DNC knew that Harris campaign pursuing Republican votes would cost her the election. She knew it, too, she’s not dumb.
Independents outnumber Ds and Rs; if you ignore your own Democrats and ignore Independents and pursue Republican votes, you will lose every time.
The math requires you to keep your own voters AND acquire Independent votes. There’s no way around it, not enough Ds exist, even if all had voted you still need I votes.
This is why Democratic campaigns are otherwise always focused on D and I votes.
Why did they ignore the fundamentals? You decide… but recall that she raised over a billion dollars in a few months, whilst Trump raised only 900 million in four years.
AmeriKKKa is uniparty on foreign policy. This exact outcome would have happened under a Harris administration, except they would have kept up the kayfabe, so I would have had to spend hours debating with shitlibs like you that this war is in fact just about oil.
If you wanna play “shame Olympics”, liberals should be fucking ashamed for losing to the fucking fascists twice, giving the keys of the kingdom to the fascist twice, doing fucking nothing with their political power every time they had it, and barely even pretending to offer a political program worth fighting for.
Ah gotta love the insults (and b b b b b b biden bad!). Ciao.
Of course Biden bad! Biden could have ended the Gaza genocide with a single fucking phone call! Are you a genocide supporter?!?
Trump, of course, being so much better.
Pragmatism beats principles every day of the week. The problem is it makes weak-willed people scared.
Yes, pragmatically speaking, voting for Biden does absolutely fucking nothing to alleviate any of the problems faced by the working class. It doesn’t affect the onward progression of capitalism, it doesn’t stop the racists from controlling the government, doesn’t stop the cops from murdering black people, doesn’t stop the erasure of LGBTQIA lives, doesn’t do anything.
The pragmatic options are to first stabilize your own situation, and then organize popular resistance and do direct actions if you have the bandwidth.
It’s amazing they’re only upset about insults after starting off with them
Kamala. Supported. The. Genocide.
Yea? How’s that lookin currently?
We’re about to get more than one genocide thanks to people like them.
Oh shut up already, Gaza is totally saved because you didn’t fucking vote
Please note that Presidents are NOT elected by popular vote, this is all worthless posturing.
Oh? Thank God she never got to be president
The other instead is the genocide
The USA famously never invaded or bombed any country during Democrat administration /s
Obama bombed the shit out of people his entire term. Including an American citizen.
How many were civilians, how many were Venezuelan military and how many were Cuban mercenaries.
Cuban “mercenaries”? Legal, government-led Cuban troops are not mercenaries. Fuck you
Americans are nothing less than violent murderers.
Every single yank has blood on their hands because they refuse to overthrow their government doing this
This is WW2 Germany, but this time it’s being played out by a narcissistic pedophile
They are all complicit in these crimes.
They are all cowards.
They are all afraid to act on on their 2nd Amendment
FUCK YOU AMERICA!!!
But they have work tomorrow. /s
Thank you for volunteering to pay our bills while we overthrow our government!
Meh, not that great an argument. We really shouldn’t be paying bills to people who allow this system to keep chugging.
Better argument would be that we have our own domestic military to be afraid of (i.e. AmeriKKKan police).
And even in the face of both these arguments, I think it’s 1000% justified to be upset at USians because they barely even have to try to manufacture our consent anymore.
I’m sure y’all say that to North Koreans too. What a bunch of cowards for being powerless.
North Koreans are not obliterating their neighbours and the middle east. What a stupid comparison.
You’re so passionate! I encourage you to come to the USA and lead the charge. Show us how it’s done! Your leadership will surely be a shining beacon for all, your wisdom remembered for the ages. We’ll erect a big statue of you and everything.
p.s. if Americans are violent murderers, so are every citizen of every country that aids the US military war machine in any way; if you sit at the table with Nazis you are a Nazi, etc. Chances are very good the USA arms YOUR country
I’m appalled by the US leaders and protesting against this shit whenever I can, but using the WW2 example undermines your argument unless the logic is that all the German jews would have just fixed all that Hitler shit if they weren’t such cowards.
So, do you say the same about russians?
President of peace everyone 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
President of paedophilia.
FIFA peace price in shambles
FIFA, that bastion of integrity?
With the actual winner cheering him on!
Leader of the free nation
Clearly the Orange Turd needs a peace prize.
I will donate the best thing on the Internet.
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Did you forget what website you’re on?
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“operation” doing some heavy lifting in this lede
Americans are terrorists and it’s people are cowards for allowing this to go on
The victim is the world and the murder-rapist is the us. We do think its fucked up you all live in the same house but there comes a point when maybe “don’t blame me I voted for Kodos” does not work when you are all buying the clown makeup for John Wayne Gacy.
Us citizens are the perpetrators of these global crimes. Your government acts in all your names
Careful with that edge, GreenCrybaby23.
Of course, you are just “following orders”.
And since you didn’t vote for that pedo rapist, it’s not your problem to deal with, right?
I unblocked you for a response, something I don’t usually waste my time on but this is so funny I had to point it out.
you have at least two alt accounts and are actively accusing and discrediting someone for the same thing. I think @ObtuseDoorFrame@lemmy.zip should at least know who they’re arguing with.
as if that wasn’t enough, you actually upvote all of your own comments with your alt accounts.
🤣
it’s absurd, if you spent half that effort on being a normal human being nobody would be able to tell how pathetic you are.
anyway, good luck with whatever hate machine you’re building. if this is the best you can do you’re going to need it.
Don’t worry I’m never blocking you, I have you tagged and will forever keep downvoting. Special cunts like you deserve all the special attention.
Btw, if you had me blocked you wouldn’t have seen my reply. So you are not just a simple cunt either, you are a LYING cunt.
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A pathetic, lying American cunt crybaby is what you are.
sounds like someone is mad they got caught 🤣
tag me however you want, won’t make your actions any less pathetic.
for the record, I wouldn’t have even seen it if you hadn’t downvote bombed all my comments, but you piqued my interest enough to investigate your account.
I found some pretty interesting stuff. did you know that it’s possible to see all the downvote bombing you’ve done? like seriously dude…do you not have a life? not only that, but it seems you actually wrote a script to go through and do it for you because these timestamps are almost simultaneous.
I’m impressed that you could know enough to script something out and still be ignorant enough to leave breadcrumbs behind. real amateur hour stuff.
that’s not the only interesting thing either. I can see your upvotes too. it’s pretty telling tbh.
Haha, based on your long rambling replies and constant edits I know which one of us is having a mental meltdown. It ain’t me brother.
You say you don’t care about votes, yet you spent an hour doing investigative work into my voting. 🤡
No, just good old fashioned manual labour. It takes less than a second to click on multiple down arrows while scrolling through your history. Do you have those slow fat sausage fingers?
Btw I’m only using ONE alt account and I’m not hiding anything. You really think I would use the same name on both accounts? Well you probably do, since you’re an idiot.
Thank you, it’s hard work with idiots like you. All tools must be employed.
But looking at your history, it seems you are very unpopular as it is anyway, so my couple of downvotes are just a drop in the sea of downvotes you are getting from everyone else. Looks like I didn’t need to waste my time after all.
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I think I am missing the point here, why is this being shown as some sort of issue?
Wow, thats a bit of a crash out.
Makes a post like this and calls other people pathetic is a pretty legendary crash out.
What a child.
go and fuck your hat. I’m a coward because I don’t want to stand up to the most powerful military in the world being damn near a senior citizen?
Bro, they on your side.
No one expects you to go Rambo. They just want the majority of people to find their morals and do something.
As unlikely as that is dont get so worked up because some anon was provoking you to do exactly what you just did. Maybe tomorrow you wont take down your local police department but instead look at a homeless person and think, “this isnt right.”
I do contribute. Drive for a local charity a few hours a month. They need a truck, I got a truck.
I’m frustrated as fuck with the govt. right now. but, they voted it in and now we have to try to get through it. I hope it doesn’t end with bloodshed.
Thats it man, youre leagues above. Dont let the politics trigger you. Youre losing yourself to something you cant control.
Same goes for me.
Really just outs the commenter as having no fucking clue what they are talking about.
We are doing what we can. Constant record breaking protests. Progressives are winning by historic margins. These stupid fucking pretentious insulting comments do less than nothing.
People really just cannot fucking comprehend the breadth and intensity of the psy op propaganda that the Republicans have enacted (really since Nixon) but intensely starting with Trump.
Unprecedented targetting, unprecedented amounts of propaganda, and a collaboration with multiple foreign adversaries to assist. Trumps campaign was literally sending voter data to Russia so they can specifically target Americans with propaganda.
On top of OAN, Fox News, podcasts, and talk radio, we literally had Russia and china making thousands of full on fake websites posing as legit news spreading insane anti left bullshit. Social media was completely flooded with bots spreading misinformation leading up to all of Trump’s elections
America is the victim of the biggest and most advanced brainwashing campaign in the history of mankind and we all seem to be ignoring that fact when it is the single most important aspect of modern American and global politics.
keep reminding international armchair politicians about the facts that their leaders hold enough US Debt in the form of 10 year treasury bonds that they could take one on the chin and fire sale their bonds to topple the narcissistic house of cards
Pure cope.
You try changing people’s opinions when you can’t even agree on what is and what isn’t reality. I really don’t think you guys have any idea how broken half of this country is. We do. Because we have to deal with these people on a daily basis. Some of them are our family.
call your leaders, pressure them to sell their treasury bonds because “this isn’t right.” The rats will jump ship once the money is affected.
Guess what you and your leaders won’t do? Guess what that means about your complicity in all this? Are we ready for that conversation?
Your neighbor’s nephew once wore blue jeans, so he’s basically a war criminal.
And what will happen when the corrupt America decides not to pay because they know it will cripple them?
The bonds will become worthless pieces of paper and the USA will continue as it were.
Guess what? No one wins anything and the EU loses a ton of money for absolutely nothing.
The EU leaders didn’t elect a pedophile convict to run your country. Get your shit together you cowards.
Buried in your accusations is the phrase “EU loses a ton of money”.
You get the international politics you deserve, buddy. Bold to assume 70million+ of us elected this orange mussolini. Good luck.
I am, the others arent. Wait till the midterms are stolen. We will reach peak irony levels there and some more might be willing till talk.
Sounds like a you problem
Then keep that shit to yourself
Woo woo woo woo lemmy police are here.
We expect you to do your best
how about try to ask yourself: would you have shot hitler, had you been there, in nazi-germany? when all oposing parties and minorities were consecutively arrested and jailed?
There were several assassination attempts against Hitler, some of those attempts by Germans.
There have been several assassination attempts against Trump as well as consistent protests that are breaking participation records
This is the best evidence we have for time travel
i am a german, i know of this stuff. i was just responding to the guy, who said, theres nothing, as an US-american, he can do about. Sure he can. Americans shouldnt belittle us, as to what happened during the time of nazi germany, when they wont do stuff themselves, when presented with an somewhat similar situation.
This Canadian agrees.
okay, so the google ai (i forgot to turn it off) says pre ww2 germany was about 633,000 square kilometers to the hogshead (including austria and sudentenland because idk i was up late). united states takes up about 9,150,000 square kilometers to the hogshead. does that explain the difference in size a little bit?
so what, the country is bigger, so any assasination on trump is riskier? or resistence to the covernment? i dont understand your logic, what does size of a country matter when presented with an president, who does fascist things, right in the front of you face. And the american people do nothing about it, they then are all complicit in his actions, as were deemed the german people during the nuremberg trials.
y’all are trying to say just walk over to dc. you seem to not understand the scale of things. you had a country, we have a continent to walk across. fucking bad faith nazi.
Yeah why aren’t me and you single handedly overthrowing this democratically elected government! We must be stupid or something
I love seeing foreigners asking Americans online why they don’t just stop this.
Like, motherfucker millions of us voted against this.
This is the result of multiple nations and multiple massive data analytics corps collaborating to create the biggest propaganda machine ever seen on earth which brainwashed millions of Americans.
But yeah. Why the fuck isnt Dave, the liberal from Vermont just walking to Washington and stopping this!!! /s
This why you guys are considered the dumbest people on Earth
Excellent retort. Now go feel high and mighty.
You’ve really made a difference by insulting people who agree with you and are already using their means to fight against this admin
You are a true revolutionary.
Wish you could go back in time and tell all the Jews in Germany who didn’t vote for Hitler that they are stupid for not stopping him. That would be really constructive. You could really save us some trouble there.
You’re comparing the american people to the jews in 1940? The jews were a tiny minority and they had the state AND the public against them.
i’ve literally seen you ask this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
It’s not, though. Europeans in the fediverse have consistently made this argument since the election.
No. But the American logic has always been “we must do something” -> “this is something” -> “therefore we must do it”. Take the dumbest idea and run with it, or use it as an excuse for inaction.
You are a coward. Along with the millions who stayed home on voting day, letting this global nightmare happen. 2nd amendment you yanks love to waive around in everyone’s face, was made for this. Yet … crickets.
This is just such an incredibly stupid insulting thing to say.
Millions of Americans oppose this admin and are actively protesting and volunteering against it.
We can’t just walk to fucking DC and remove a democratically elected prez you idiots
Yes you can. “Millions of Americans” sounds like an army.
An army with (at best) small arms. Against the US military, we may as well have sticks and stones.
Your American army got defeated by villagers with sticks and stones in Vietnam.
Yeah it definitely didn’t have anything to do with all the hardware and intel from Russia
Always someone else’s fault with you yanks. Never taking responsibility for your own failings.
“My” failing for a dumb war that ended over a decade before I existed. K.
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Changing your Facebook profile picture doesn’t count. If you feel insulted, look around and think.
It’s Jan 6th. tomorrow, just saying.
Yeah, and how did that work out?
Worked out great for the traitors, they all got pardoned and got re-elected.
It seems to have worked well enough for them, since they’re the ones running the government now.
I also don’t think they’re going to leave peacefully ever. If you want them out, you might as well toss them out sooner than later.
It didn’t stop Biden’s inauguration, which was the stated goal.
You do realise there is another half of the country that opposes this right? Even if 55% of the country tries to throw trump out 45% will show up to stop him and that will be a very bloody conflict.
Better just to wait until mid terms and next election and vote him out.
Do you think they’ll accept a loss at the next election, or are they going to start a bloody conflict anyway?
Not sure. I think the right will but I also think if they dont then its the better time for a bloody conflict.
You’ll have a lot more people on your side after an election loss because trump is already unpopular and people will feel cheated out of democracy. Whereas if you start a conflict now your side will look like the ones trying to overthrow democracy since he was the legitimate winner.
You only get one shot at this kind of thing
If they can do it in other countries, why can’t you? Cowards
BTW democracy and law is dead in the USA, you are living in a delusion if you think otherwise.
So yes, you absolutely CAN and SHOULD remove a war criminal and a pedophile who is breaking all the national and international laws. WTF?
Who are you talking to? The democratic party that’s in on the classist reset? Or a guy with a slingshot? Call your leaders, ask them to sell their treasury bonds to stand in solidarity with venezuela… I’m sure they totally will because only murican billionaires are evil… yours are totally cool.
Yes. And the good Americans are constantly working towards that, anywhere from really complicated micro step means like funding grassroots progressives to things like Massie and Khanna collaborating on legislation to nation wide protests.
This is an extremely complex and disturbing situation that requires mass demonstrations and complex beuarocratic machinations and acting like Greg from Atlanta not rolling up to Washington on a tractor with a shotgun is what’s letting it happen is fucking reductive, emotional, immature, unconstructive, childish, in-fighting causing, and just fucking stupid. As stupid as they nking democracy is dead in the USA.
Yeah you can’t cause you’re all talk, you’re idiots and cowards. The faster you guys become a third world shithole the better.
Your entire country is a disease.
Sincerely an indigenous person
Your cowardly leaders can sell their US Debt today when the markets open if they care to do anything meaningful - you’re foolish if you think a protest or strike will result in anything but incarceration at this stage.
Guess what? Your leaders won’t sell their US Debt. Chew on that as this storm rolls your way.
And what will happen when the corrupt America decides not to pay because they know it will cripple them?
The bonds will become worthless pieces of paper and the USA will continue as it were.
Guess what? No one wins anything and the EU loses a ton of money for absolutely nothing.
Get your shit together you cowards.
Fat apathetic ignorant Americans are the true cowards.
He’s coming for greenland next - make sure you enlist since you’re not a coward
It’s telling that you find that idea so outlandish.
People do sign up to fight aggressive shit hole countries like the US all the time, even when the odds don’t look good on paper. Just look at Ukraine. At this point most Europeans have probably given a fleeting thought to the possibility that they might soon have to fight Russia too.
For that matter, look at all poorly equipped militias that have fought off the US at massive disadvantages.
🫡
lol like a man falling off a cliff, grasping at branches
And what would you do in our position? Stop acting like the average American citizen has any control over this.
General strike.
I mean, you Americans love to compare yourselves with Rome, learn something from the Secessio Plebis.
Or better, take a hint from your own previous social movements.
General strikes don’t materialize out of nowhere and require significantly more organization and infrastructure than currently exists.
So then what you need to do is build …what… ? Take your thought to it’s logical conclusion.
Look, dear American people, there is no cavalry coming to save you. You have to do this. It’s your country. Build the infrastructure, build the organization.
Start small, build up: youtu.be/vvaquOcNEKI
I mean, at the VERY LEAST, you could do one of those cute marches during a week day… maybe start there
This is you right now!
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The real problem here is that you painted your collective selves to a corner by apathy and inaction… now, pretty much any option left does require some sacrifice but God forbid you had to move a finger and crack a nail… better let other people keep dying so you can keep watching the game with a beer in hand
Liberal Americans are just waiting out a hypothetical course correction to a more polite and slower collapse of the empire. They are completely unwilling to consider that the US government and the country itself is the bad guy.
It’s about time we stopped saying things like ”Trump attacked Venezuela” – the US did. Americans happily killed those people. And the killers’ relatives support them. Americans on Lemmy support them, claiming there’s nothing the killers could have done: they were just following orders.
Ultimately, the reason why supposed opponents of the Trump regime are looking for you and others to provide them with a clear path for how to decisively defeat the entirety of the US government in one fell swoop, is that their red lines, at which they’re willing to fight, win or lose, have not been crossed yet. Everything so far has been tolerable to them.
This separates them from the Maga grassroots Americans, that notably managed to storm the Capitol.
The average American is a pile of uneducated garbage.
Im just an indigenous guy enjoying the downfall of your people
What a lame reason to not care about something. Peak whataboutisum.
We call that the price of freedom^tm^
The Lord Farquad rule
The US acts of war? Why does the news do this. We all know this isn’t an “operation”.
Same reason Russia invading Ukraine was.
“Stop me.”
RIP International law.
*International Suggestions
Yes, exactly, and if the USA can do what they please why should other countries comply with it? It creates a dangerous precedent and an example for other authoritarian regimes. And I am afraid that Venezuela is just the beginning.
Calvinball-based international order
Everybody with nukes does as the please. US, Russia, China, North Korea, Israel…
Everyone who abuses their power suffers economic repercussions at a minimum, militaristic repurcussions via the funding and arming of their opponents in some cases, but the precedent here being set is China asking “if the world won’t defend you, why should you defend the world?” It’s a dangerous warmongering idea that unfortunately might be taking root.
The US hasn’t really suffered any serious consequences, yet. Similar to China. Russia didn’t until Ukraine, before that they messed in Chechnya, Georgia, etc with impunity. I don’t see anyone coming to the aid of Tibet or the uyghurs either, China is pretty scot free.
and Ukraine only because it borders Europe
Some would argue 'is in Europe "even.
Technically, Russia saw a lot of pushback over Crimea which directly predated the rest of Ukraine.
Very very minor. Some strongly worded letters and symbolic sanctions. They could have kept crimea and most of the donbas and in a decade things would have gone back to normal.
Venezuela is not the beginning. America has always been a terrorist state. You just have the memory of a goldfish.
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Wasn’t it RIP with Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Or Vietnam?
Barbary Wars - 1801
Hawaii - 1950
Still occupied to this day
So the thing about Iraq is that:
Bush enacted the NATO articles after 9-11 but couldn’t prove which country was responsible so while the troops were rallied there was no actual NATO response just voluntary support.
Bush, Cheney, and the CIA managed to grub up a bunch of images of Aluminium Tubes that the CIA swore up and down were used in the production of nuclear weapons, and this case was presented to Congress to gain support for the war.
The same arguments were presented to the UN prior to the invasion.
Comparing Trump’s weekend getaway trip to that is disingenuous to its core, congress and largely the American people had absolutely no part to play in his insanity, and normalizing it or pretending there won’t or shouldn’t be repercussions for that helps nobody except for Donald Trump.
This is a childish and wrong way of understanding politics. “Orange man bad”, although a true statement, doesn’t explain USA geopolitics, which are largely bipartisan.
You say congress played no part, yet most of congress (even most democrats) don’t condemned the actions themselves, only the lack of protocol followed. Half of EU politicians are celebrating too.
I myself don’t condemn the action itself, Maduro had it coming and so do all the other anti-democratic despots of the world. I place the greater good of all future people above my own comfort.
But Trump should be punished just as any other president should, this is not their power to do.
The entire purpose of economic sanctions on Venezuela is to prevent free elections, because free elections gave rise to the Bolivarian revolution. This is not me making it up, this is literally the US policy as said by themselves with economic sanctioning:
By arguing about elections without taking sanctions into account, you’re just being a CIA stooge
I can’t tell if you’re being facetious of if you actually think Venezuela is Cuba? After Cuba aligned with the USSR at the height of the cold war and became a single party dictatorship, economic suppression seems like a tame response. You realize they almost set off WWIII?
I feel like support for Castro would plummet harshly if any opposition were allowed on it’s soil, but it was not.
The document: Cubans are overwhelmingly in support of communism, so we need to starve them
The most “democratic” westerner: OF COURSE WE STARVED THEM, THEY DIDN’T HAVE TWO PARTIES
Just so you know: US + EU economic sanctions have murdered 38 million people in the past 50 years, and continue to murder half a million yearly. “Tame suppression”
Starved? They were primarily an agricultural economy. Maybe if Castro grew something other than Tobacco less people would have died, idk why every communist country has this dumb initiation ritual where they kill off large sums of their own people.
BTW it says the opposite of support for revolution. The USA caused their revolution and gained them self-governance before they CHOSE to live under Castro’s dictatorship.
I updated my response with scientific medical evidence that US and EU sanctions directly murder half a million people a year. You are literally a murderous maniac if you support that.
For fucks sake, the document literally says “TO BRING ABOUT HUNGER AND DESPERATION”, you obtuse motherfucker
The fact that you blame the extreme poverty and lack of human rights in those nations on the nations who refuse to cooperate with them over their violent tendencies and affiliations, rather than those nations themselves, is absurd, honestly.
IT IS NOT ME BLAMING ANYTHING, IT’S THE USA ADMITTING THIS THEMSELVES BY SAYING “WE WANT TO BRING HUNGER AND DESPERATION”, AND IT’S SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTS OF SANCTIONS.
USA: “WE LITERALLY WANT TO STARVE CUBA BECAUSE IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO REMOVE POPULAR SUPPORT FROM COMMUNISM”
Smartest imperialism apologist: “smh can’t believe you’re blaming anyone else than the commies”
I GUESS WE’RE DOING ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, NOW. HEY REMEMBER THAT DOCUMENT SAYING THAT CUTTING OFF TRADE WITH AN AGRICULTURAL ECONOMY NATION WOULD CAUSE THEM TO STARVE AND BE IMPOVERISHED? I WOULD SAY THAT’S A BIT OF A SKILL ISSUE ON THAT NATION’S GOVERNMENT.
WHY IS REFUSING TO SAVE THEM FROM THEIR OWN MISMANAGEMENT, A SECOND TIME I MIGHT ADD, SOMEHOW THE USA’S FAULT?
That’s funny, I’ve heard Cuban refugees say that exact thing about Fidel Castro.
Good lord you ARE obtuse
This is being very common with everything related to US. Ecuador invaded Mexican embassy and now this.
Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army. You know what I mean?
They never existed because we never had a real international police to enforce them. They kinda felt real because the US kinda acted like this police.
Team America: World Police was a documentary.
Fuck America, let them suffer, make them burn, especially the current administration.
who is America? certainly you don’t mean its people
edit: suck my extreme balls
No, the fridges and washers. Some toasters, too.
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Are you asking that in good faith? The Maga trash for certain, though. And people who don’t take direct action, or any action.
Yes. The 77.3 million who chose Trump, as well as those who were too lazy to bother voting.
Collectively they can get fucking rekt.
So, what about the 75 million other Americans who voted for Harris?
Now is maybe not the time to throw “not all men” around.
Now is the time to actively resist and prove to the rest of the world yourself an ally in a global fight against fascism taking command of the largest military on the planet.
I’m too busy enjoying the catharsis of watching them cry about suffering the consequences. It’s crab mentality for sure, but they deserve this suffering.
As long as they do nothing to unite and just hope someone else does something for them, I’m not sure what use you think they are to me?
Well see, they’re going to vote blue again this year and again in 3 years. Because that’s worked so fucking well the last 8 times
it did work well. Joe Biden was the last president and he was a damn good one.
doubt
How many times I heard that it’s ok to murder Palestinians because I’m 2006 they voted for the party that got rid of Israeli settlements.
meanwhile the American people are not responsible for the guy they voted a second time last year?
every conservative voter is directly complicit with those murders, and ideally they should face justice, and every liberal is also complicit because the Dems are useless and also do this bullshit.
Only reply I’ll accept is that the US is not a democracy, barely even a pretend one. it’s a theater for the rich to do as they please. but I’ll still blame the Americans for not providing enough pushback.
almost every other nation would have revolted. Americans are exceptionally meek bootlickers.
Do not absolve the past administrations, do not absolve the future administrations, canada, europe, russia or china. Fuck the global north.
All European leaders have done since the abduction of Maduro and massacre of 80 people in Venezuela “monitoring” the situation. Europe is complicit. So you’re not wrong. Not sure why people are down voting. <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/58f6cf05-ff07-438c-a7f4-ed7523744e53.jpeg">
I said something bad about every major country in the anglosphere of the internet, downvotes are to be expected.
If I had to guess, it would probably be because what they said was the equivalent of “fuck every country, fuck everyone”.
If I said that, for example, I’d probably be downvoted too.
We can’t even get a handle on our current administration who the leader is a known pedophile, murderer, rapist, grifter, and all around POS.
Trump kidnapped a foreign leader. Let that sink in.
It’s not just the Republicans tho. Obama bombed 8 countries in a year in 2016.
We’re not blaming Biden anymore? Was there a memo I haven’t seen going around or something. I’m always out of the loop on who to blame for trump’s fucked up doings.
To be clear, American meddling in Latam is not something that Trump introduced or invented.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6ce3b983-ffac-44e3-aa70-22a2e0af0f26.jpeg">
Trump’s recent meddling and murder in Venezuela is the culmination of two hundred of years of American foreign policy that both Democrats and Republicans have condoned at the behest of their corporate overlords. The Venezuela debacle is not a Trump thing. It’s an American thing that has its roots in the Monroe doctrine, and yes, including Obama.
Soooooooo, Biden is off the table now is what you’re saying. Fuck, that memo must keep getting lost in transit.
Bombing a country isnt inherently a bad thing. Those strikes were conducted with the support of regional allies against terrorist orgs. But I know people like you never miss an opportunity to take attention away from Trump and point it towards democrats.
The Obama administration knowingly bombed a civilian hospital
That actually says the opposite. That link says that Obama didnt intend to strike the hospital nor did the general and it was struck due equipment malfuntion and the info relayed to the strike crew causing it to get identified as a similar looking Taliban-controlled building. So a lower level chain of command and procedure failure. Operating in that theater and ordering those strikes was still the correct thing to do.
You can even look at the response once they realised the mistake. Trump’s admin would never do anything close to that.
Imagine not reading past the first paragraph of “proof” you provide. Glad I’m not them. Wild world.
the same NYT that dint bother reporting the attack, because they recieved the info days before it from the trump administration. NYT AND POST are cupable as well.
Source?
They said it themselves, you can look it up, but here’s a source
Thanks!
OP said “days before” - the reporting is “shortly before” with an unspecified timeline.
The exact timeline is not the point. The point is that the two most venerated American newspapers received information that the US was about to do something blatantly illegal and decided not to report this. But we’ve known for a long time that both of them (and all major media outlets in the US) are equivalent to state media anyway, so it’s not surprising.
Sure if I had to bet, neither publication would report it in advance. But for the sake of argument: 2 days - plenty of time to spread the news cycle, form public debate, or debate in Congress. Government has to make a decision
30 minutes - troops in the air, if any US soldiers get killed and/or the mission fails perception will be that the blood is on the publication’s hands, along with calls for treason charges.
Again I doubt they’re reporting, but exact timeline does impact how I view their decision not to report.
I see your point but still think you’re choosing the most charitable interpretation. I choose not to be charitable to two news giants who have helped provide support and cover for starting multiple disastrous wars of aggression that killed countless people.
Crazy that they’d have a tip off before the Congressional Gang of Eight, especially in light of Lucky Palmer’s assertion that Congress needed to be kept in the dark to prevent leaks.
Real “which side are you on, boys?” moment.
America is the modern European empire, just moved over. Europe is a vassal state of America, btw.
trvke
Trump is still a pedophile. Don’t forget that. This is not a distraction from the Epstein files.
Jeffery Dahmer is a cannibal, but that’s sort of secondary to the large number of murders.
Tbh maduro is a stupid person, and while this is a violation to international laws, he deserves to be in jail for life after all crimes against humanity on 2014 strikes. I do not feel bad by his faith. The best scenario would be the venezuelan people make justice, but regime had all the state forces. What option do they had???
US is friend with many authoritarian regimes in middle east and beyond because they do whatever US wants. Maduro being bad/stupid isnt the point.
They’re going to botch his prosecution anyway because they fired all the competent people in the doj.
From my standpoint as a Latino for me is the most important thing.
What option do Anericans have against a dictator?
You mean against Trummp… have you actually tried ANYTHING? maybe start by organizing one of those cutesy marches on a weekday
It’s your country idc.
Maduro is bad, but that’s not what this is about. It’s about extrajudicial killings by the US military, and the kidnapping of a foreign head of state. Even if he’s evil and deserves it, that doesn’t give the US the right to do it. If the world comes together and decides it’s necessary, that’s one thing. Unilaterally invading, murdering civilians, and kidnapping a head of state and their spouse is not okay in any circumstance.
And the worst thing we can do is turn a blind eye to it just because Maduro is evil, because that tells the US that they can do whatever they want as long as they pretend to do it for noble reasons.
We did that with Iraq and that was one of the biggest clusterfucks in modern history, costing hundreds of thousands of lives, trillions of dollars, and destabilizing the entire region while fueling anti-American sentiment and Islamist extremism for decades.
They were in a catch 22 situation: the last elections were a fraudulent shitshow, and as the dictator has every state power literally Venezuela people can’t just vote for other party. It’s not like in US where you have sort of democracy. The venezuelan army is an active political actor and can force people one way or another.
Finally this is different. There isn’t a religious background in this war not even a nationalist background. Venezuelan people are very affected and even embarrassed about their nationality. They are seen as beggars, homeless people by the rest of south america. Morale is very low and a lot are supporting US now.
Maduro may have needed to go, but that isn’t Trump’s decision to make unilaterally. And by allowing Trump to do this we’re giving him permission to enact his will anywhere. Drugs also come from Mexico, can he invade them? How about Minnesota? What if he decided that Greenland deserves freedom from Europe?
And if Trump can do it, why shouldn’t Xi be allowed to invade Taiwan? And what the hell - let’s let Putin have Finland and Netanyahu have Jordan, so long as they super duper totally believe they’re liberating people.
I am glad if Taiwan happens tbh. Hardware nowadays is only for the 6 big corpos. Look RAM crisis, entire memory crisis.
All former US presidents still alive should be Maduro’s jail buddies then.
I don’t care, I’m not in US I’m latino and I am sort of alleviated.
Idk about what you do with your country.
Tell me one thing of the many bad things Maduro did towards Venezuelans that would improve as a colony under a pedophile raging mad narcissist?
I am living in south america, I’m latino and I can talk with all argument: it will improve dramatically once the dictator has fallen. Vzla is the country with largest oil reserves and still living in extreme poverty. In 2014 strikes how many people was killed, tortured, disappeared, even violated. The last elections where a shitshow, and almost all observers said there were fraud. So yeah He deserves everything he’s gonna have.
again, how is any of that going to improve? the orange pedophile is doing the same to his own people, do you really think he’ll respect human rights of Venezuelans?
I am not saying Maduro was good in any way, but Venezuelans just fell from the frying pan into the fire but seem too close to see it
The blockage will fall to start with.
so like all other trump problems, the only advantage is when he backtracks from his own mess
The blockage comes even before Trump, Biden didn’t change anything.
Ok not sure what you are talking about here… but in any case, the USA is just going to do what it always does, steal the oil, make the big oil companies richer, still sell gas expensive to everyone… that is not helping Venezuelans in anyway
Does Trump deserve to be in jail after raping minors on the Epstein Island?
This is US trouble.
“But they’re celebrating.”
Yeah, if a foreign nation did a military operation and abducted Trump to face a trial for his crimes Americans would be in the streets celebrating.
But the celebration is going to be short when they realize their futures are now dictated by a felon rapist pedophile who’s crashing his own nation’s economy and violating his own citizen’s rights.
Did Venezuelans vote for Trump? I thought America loved democracy.
It seems that enshittification with a few small tweaks can be resold as “Gaza-morgified”
Fuck the USA.
This headline needs to change.
US military murders 80 people an illegal raid on foreign soil.
US terrorists*
If venezuela had nuclear weapons none of this would have happened.
Does that include the boat murders ?
Boat murders are separate, over 100 last I remember
Murders.
Acting surprised after seeing the unlimited support by USA, Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, UAE, India, China, Russia, Ukraine support for genociding the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank is funny to me.
Now we see Canadian and Mexican afraid to even call the US out because no one will come to rescue them if the US did the same. And they deserve it.
Nothing lower to me than killing children and babies, so my expectations are non existing for such government and people.
Still waiting for a Western news source to call the US administration terrorists.
It is funny because Trump talks so much shit about the press, but they got his back. It is pretty sad to watch, but we have known for decades that the independent press is a lie in the US.
Just stop talking about Jeffrey Epstein and Trump please.