He’s already doing this. We worry too much about “oh how bad would the backlash be?” but we are already heading for X,com-powered fascism, what’s to lose?
It’s Ramstein. And people are really fucking scared to upset the de facto rulers of NATO since the Russian invasion, as ironic as that might be considering Trump’s connections and resulting stance on NATO allies.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jan 12:12
nextcollapse
What is it to study? He’s already said that he supports the nazis, and it is clear that he uses his twitter as his personal billboard.
There’s nothing else to consider. Twitter should be banned from Europe until the nazi controlling it loses its control over it (hopefully in a pemanent way).
Clearly not if the far right party exists in Germany and their leaders aren’t being sent to jail. In the eyes of German law the AfD are not nazi enough to be illegal.
the_wise_wolf@feddit.org
on 07 Jan 14:45
nextcollapse
I don’t know if these anti Nazi laws have ever been enforced in a rigorous manner. And most politicians are too afraid of doing it because the Nazis have growing support by the people. I’m pretty sure they could do more to fight the afd legally. But then again, they could also do more to satisfy voters, so they don’t vote for extremist. Both is never going to happen.
It is currently under legal review, though unfortunately caught up in Realpolitik and unlikely to go anywhere due to the government disbanding.
Fact is the center-right always has a bullshit reason to sit on their hands. They stopped the NPD review years ago saying they aren’t popular enough to be a threat. Now with AfD they say they’re too popular to be banned.
Institutions and laws are meaningless if they aren’t used as intended.
Like the first time. Something tell me this will end with a lot of dead germans again. Maybe it’s just the way it is, germans turn nazis, they get bombed, they stay quiet for a while, they start supporting genocide again (like now). Rince repeat.
Admittedly, it is not enforced often enough and hard enough, but in general this falls under criminal organisations law.
German Criminal Code §129
Whoever supports such an organisation or recruits members or supporters for such an organisation incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or a fine.
KNAYITNA@lemmings.world
on 07 Jan 17:55
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The hammer and sickle is not prohibited at all lol, or else the DKP would be banned
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jan 12:49
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Nothing. IF his personal billboard was used to post kitten gifs.
But since his personal billboard is used to promote nazism during an election and is big enough to be able to influence the results of the elections by simply filtering that people can see on it to be what he wants, I’d say that he is interfering in a democratic election, which is a crime in democratic countries.
BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world
on 07 Jan 13:02
nextcollapse
I think this is the right question. If they can show something he has done is illegal then take it to court. I can’t stand the guy and hope they can nail him if he’s broken the law.
There is a separate issue here which is whether regulations need to change because it’s not appropriate to have media in the hands of individuals or big corporations. Yet this has been acceptable to politicians when it was Rupert Murdoch, or Silvio Berlusconi or various other media barons - why is Musk any different? Politicians have spent decades cosying up to such media barons and letting them have power over democracies.
The whole system needs to be changed - this is not just about one billionaire, it’s all of them and their use of the media to control the public discourse.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world
on 07 Jan 13:25
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If they can show something he has done is illegal then take it to court.
That is one avenue. But there’s no time for that. So. Unless you’re just going to get mowed down in the street by an idiot techbro with more money than sense who’s high on some toxic meth/ket drug because you’re so locked into the way we did things in the 1800s, you’ll need to think of something.
Aaaaaaannnnd - Go.
FelixCress@lemmy.world
on 07 Jan 14:13
nextcollapse
Have you actually read the article?
“Elon Musk chatting with AfD leader Alice Weidel on X is covered by freedom of expression. His algorithmic manipulation, [which] is intentionally flooding German X timelines with far-right propaganda and drowning out progressive content, is not.”
I’m pretty sure the second half is covered by freedom of expression too.
The people saying “election interference” are probably closest to having something real to pin on him, but circulation of propaganda is not election interference. Buying votes like he was doing is the US is, but he’s not doing that here. Violating campaign or party donation rules would be, but I’m not aware of him doing that either.
You need an actual crime.
FelixCress@lemmy.world
on 08 Jan 07:03
nextcollapse
I am pretty sure that you are just another ignorant USian without the foggiest clue about how laws works outside of your ridiculous country.
what you’re saying is LITERALLY false. it’s election interference in germany. his main actions would be covered in Manipulation campaigns in the information space or disinformation campaigns, but you could even make a case it’s a hybrid threat. He’ll probably also indirectly sponsor them monetarily if possible, which should also be illegal.
EITHER way, the one of the first three actions are all easily observed from the megalomaniac’s behavior.
If you are trying to argue the courts won’t be able to take action before he gets the AfD in power, sure. Is a law a law if it ain’t enforced? No, I agree there.
Foreign election interference is generally illegal. Which is why it happens in back channels and under the table. He has openly declared his intent to do so though. That justifies blocking X and any source of funding Musk can bring into those countries. Hell it justifies an interpol warrant.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 07 Jan 12:15
nextcollapse
They shouldn’t need to be pressured to stop him from engaging in election interference.
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 07 Jan 12:54
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Please do it before it’s too late
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jan 13:26
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Heck, use the illegal weapons on him too while we’re at it.
I lost a lot of respect for germans these last years to be honest. I wasn’t expecting them to full on supporting a genocide just to get those sweet weapon export contract.
If they really applied genocide apology law they would have to throw a large part of their intelligentsia into prison lmao. Disgusting country.
Honestly, while I don’t mind legal proceedings against Elon, the best thing the EU or any European government could do would be to start using alternatives to Twitter.
If they’d spin up their own mastodon instance and politicians, institutions and parties would start exclusively posting their statements there, then journalists would have to follow them and news organisations would also start linking those instead.
Twitter isn’t as big here anyways, but doing that could imo make it even less so.
This would be a reason for me to start using Mastodon. I currently don’t, and never used Twitter, because the value i got wasn’t worth the pain. Mastodon looks like it would be less pain, but there isn’t any real value drawing me in. If my country or province spun up instances with verified accounts and media releases, I’d be very interested. If they made their own crappy app, thanks, I’ll pass.
felykiosa@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jan 15:30
nextcollapse
they need to do what france did to durov. after the arrest, telegram did a major shift on content moderation. they need to make actual law enforcement instead of just saying things. but, eh, it’s elon musk, i bet they dont have balls to stand against world richest dickhead.
KNAYITNA@lemmings.world
on 07 Jan 17:51
nextcollapse
“Legal”, what a bunch of pussies. Just expel the yanks. They went full nazis and both of their party supported genocide in the last elections. They think they are above the ICC and they have laws organizing the invasion of the netherlands in case their war criminals gets in trouble.
Or, alternate plan, find some handsome italian lads who know how to use a gun.
index@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jan 18:32
nextcollapse
See even governments are doing something about it, it’s about time you all stop upvoting musk news
DicJacobus@lemmy.world
on 07 Jan 20:45
nextcollapse
The EU needs to wake up to the fact that its in a stage prepatory to war. They’re under attack by a wave of fascists, Russian army on the east, and Politicians and Corporate Syndicates from America and within their own borders.
The entire State of Russia, Elon Musk’s Megalomaniasphere, MAGA, Hungary’s Fidesz, Germany’d AFD, France’s RN. We’re essentially in a plot similar to the tom clancy’s Sum of all fears book, where a bunch of Fascists are trying to collectively take over the world.
Its a little conspiracy theorist-y, but some are suggesting the International Democracy Union is one angle of this plot.
Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 08 Jan 01:57
nextcollapse
I’m a little surprised that most countries don’t have laws that make it a crime for non-citizens or people outside their country to influence elections. For any country, but the biggest and wealthiest, this seems like an obvious thing. Nobody wants their larger richer neighbor coming and interfering with their elections.
If you consider Twitter like a newspaper or other media outlet, then the owner of the media outlet using Twitter’s megaphone should violate all sorts of laws. At least that would be my expectation…
threaded - newest
Hit him on both fronts: Block X.com IP ranges and issue an international warrant for foreign election interference.
And sanction his other companies.
These are the right answers.
Which of course will push him 100% harder to support his political benefactors, the nazis.
He’s already doing this. We worry too much about “oh how bad would the backlash be?” but we are already heading for X,com-powered fascism, what’s to lose?
Why him? He represents the US government. Sanctions the yanks and kick them out of rammstein. Neocolonialist fucks.
It’s Ramstein. And people are really fucking scared to upset the de facto rulers of NATO since the Russian invasion, as ironic as that might be considering Trump’s connections and resulting stance on NATO allies.
What is it to study? He’s already said that he supports the nazis, and it is clear that he uses his twitter as his personal billboard.
There’s nothing else to consider. Twitter should be banned from Europe until the nazi controlling it loses its control over it (hopefully in a pemanent way).
Right, but what in what you’ve said is illegal?
Then make it legal
Supporting nazism is quite illegal in many places. In Germany for sure.
Clearly not if the far right party exists in Germany and their leaders aren’t being sent to jail. In the eyes of German law the AfD are not nazi enough to be illegal.
I don’t know if these anti Nazi laws have ever been enforced in a rigorous manner. And most politicians are too afraid of doing it because the Nazis have growing support by the people. I’m pretty sure they could do more to fight the afd legally. But then again, they could also do more to satisfy voters, so they don’t vote for extremist. Both is never going to happen.
It is currently under legal review, though unfortunately caught up in Realpolitik and unlikely to go anywhere due to the government disbanding.
Fact is the center-right always has a bullshit reason to sit on their hands. They stopped the NPD review years ago saying they aren’t popular enough to be a threat. Now with AfD they say they’re too popular to be banned.
Institutions and laws are meaningless if they aren’t used as intended.
Like the first time. Something tell me this will end with a lot of dead germans again. Maybe it’s just the way it is, germans turn nazis, they get bombed, they stay quiet for a while, they start supporting genocide again (like now). Rince repeat.
Germany bans certain symbols, including the Nazi swastika, the Communist hammer and sickle, and the Hamas flag.
But it does not otherwise ban support of those organizations/ideologies.
Of course they are banned. There is a long list with organisations and groups that were banned since 1951. de.wikipedia.org/…/Liste_in_Deutschland_verbotene…
Not only symbols are prohibited. Extreme-Right / Facist / Nazis writings, music, images, videos, etc. are also banned.
Holocaust denial is forbidden. Historical relativism in relation to the Second World War is prohibited. etc.
Yes, the organizations themselves are banned.
Expressing support for them is not banned, unless accompanied by those symbols.
Admittedly, it is not enforced often enough and hard enough, but in general this falls under criminal organisations law.
Then it should be. Fuck the nazis.
We’re talking about twitter as a company and platform, not twitter users.
The AfD is a seditious organisation. German intelligence services thwarted a literal coup from them
The hammer and sickle is not prohibited at all lol, or else the DKP would be banned
Nothing. IF his personal billboard was used to post kitten gifs.
But since his personal billboard is used to promote nazism during an election and is big enough to be able to influence the results of the elections by simply filtering that people can see on it to be what he wants, I’d say that he is interfering in a democratic election, which is a crime in democratic countries.
I think this is the right question. If they can show something he has done is illegal then take it to court. I can’t stand the guy and hope they can nail him if he’s broken the law.
There is a separate issue here which is whether regulations need to change because it’s not appropriate to have media in the hands of individuals or big corporations. Yet this has been acceptable to politicians when it was Rupert Murdoch, or Silvio Berlusconi or various other media barons - why is Musk any different? Politicians have spent decades cosying up to such media barons and letting them have power over democracies.
The whole system needs to be changed - this is not just about one billionaire, it’s all of them and their use of the media to control the public discourse.
That is one avenue. But there’s no time for that. So. Unless you’re just going to get mowed down in the street by an idiot techbro with more money than sense who’s high on some toxic meth/ket drug because you’re so locked into the way we did things in the 1800s, you’ll need to think of something.
Aaaaaaannnnd - Go.
Have you actually read the article?
“Elon Musk chatting with AfD leader Alice Weidel on X is covered by freedom of expression. His algorithmic manipulation, [which] is intentionally flooding German X timelines with far-right propaganda and drowning out progressive content, is not.”
I’m pretty sure the second half is covered by freedom of expression too.
The people saying “election interference” are probably closest to having something real to pin on him, but circulation of propaganda is not election interference. Buying votes like he was doing is the US is, but he’s not doing that here. Violating campaign or party donation rules would be, but I’m not aware of him doing that either.
You need an actual crime.
I am pretty sure that you are just another ignorant USian without the foggiest clue about how laws works outside of your ridiculous country.
what you’re saying is LITERALLY false. it’s election interference in germany. his main actions would be covered in Manipulation campaigns in the information space or disinformation campaigns, but you could even make a case it’s a hybrid threat. He’ll probably also indirectly sponsor them monetarily if possible, which should also be illegal.
EITHER way, the one of the first three actions are all easily observed from the megalomaniac’s behavior.
If you are trying to argue the courts won’t be able to take action before he gets the AfD in power, sure. Is a law a law if it ain’t enforced? No, I agree there.
Foreign election interference is generally illegal. Which is why it happens in back channels and under the table. He has openly declared his intent to do so though. That justifies blocking X and any source of funding Musk can bring into those countries. Hell it justifies an interpol warrant.
They shouldn’t need to be pressured to stop him from engaging in election interference.
Please do it before it’s too late
Heck, use the illegal weapons on him too while we’re at it.
I can’t believe you’ve said that! ^No, no, don’t stop. I just needed to act shocked and appalled.^
Block Tesla sales and Twitter. Fuck this putrid cunt.
When they say legal weapons, do they mean the sort of legal weapons we are allowing in Gaza?
I lost a lot of respect for germans these last years to be honest. I wasn’t expecting them to full on supporting a genocide just to get those sweet weapon export contract.
If they really applied genocide apology law they would have to throw a large part of their intelligentsia into prison lmao. Disgusting country.
Honestly, while I don’t mind legal proceedings against Elon, the best thing the EU or any European government could do would be to start using alternatives to Twitter.
If they’d spin up their own mastodon instance and politicians, institutions and parties would start exclusively posting their statements there, then journalists would have to follow them and news organisations would also start linking those instead.
Twitter isn’t as big here anyways, but doing that could imo make it even less so.
Yeah the police in Norway used to post all their ops messages on twitter. But now has a self developed platform they use.
It’s probably going to go that way for a lot of stuff.
It’s slowly becoming a thing yes.
European commission Mastodon:
ec.social-network.europa.eu/@EUCommission
Can I ask them how they negotiated with Pfizer to buy those vaccines?
This would be a reason for me to start using Mastodon. I currently don’t, and never used Twitter, because the value i got wasn’t worth the pain. Mastodon looks like it would be less pain, but there isn’t any real value drawing me in. If my country or province spun up instances with verified accounts and media releases, I’d be very interested. If they made their own crappy app, thanks, I’ll pass.
Simple block x , its better for everyone
Block all of Musk’s companies.
He’s clearly a villain set on world domination.
What the fuck are we even doing as a SPECIES?
John Perry Barlow was right with his declaration of the independence of cyberspace.
Governments of the world, get out of the Internet.
ancaps, get out of Europe
What good does that do as long as the internet is run by private corporations?
they need to do what france did to durov. after the arrest, telegram did a major shift on content moderation. they need to make actual law enforcement instead of just saying things. but, eh, it’s elon musk, i bet they dont have balls to stand against world richest dickhead.
Did he get out of France already?
“Legal”, what a bunch of pussies. Just expel the yanks. They went full nazis and both of their party supported genocide in the last elections. They think they are above the ICC and they have laws organizing the invasion of the netherlands in case their war criminals gets in trouble.
They should be considered hostile.
Honestly at this point might be in everyone’s best interest to consider the illegal weapons as well
Or, alternate plan, find some handsome italian lads who know how to use a gun.
See even governments are doing something about it, it’s about time you all stop upvoting musk news
The EU needs to wake up to the fact that its in a stage prepatory to war. They’re under attack by a wave of fascists, Russian army on the east, and Politicians and Corporate Syndicates from America and within their own borders.
The entire State of Russia, Elon Musk’s Megalomaniasphere, MAGA, Hungary’s Fidesz, Germany’d AFD, France’s RN. We’re essentially in a plot similar to the tom clancy’s Sum of all fears book, where a bunch of Fascists are trying to collectively take over the world.
Its a little conspiracy theorist-y, but some are suggesting the International Democracy Union is one angle of this plot.
Ban X in Europe
@BAN_X_in_EU@mastodon.social
This is their petition
Ban his cars, ban his platform. Refuse entry if he tries to visit.
I’m a little surprised that most countries don’t have laws that make it a crime for non-citizens or people outside their country to influence elections. For any country, but the biggest and wealthiest, this seems like an obvious thing. Nobody wants their larger richer neighbor coming and interfering with their elections.
If you consider Twitter like a newspaper or other media outlet, then the owner of the media outlet using Twitter’s megaphone should violate all sorts of laws. At least that would be my expectation…