I don’t see how this is even particularly generous. It’s a 40 day slowdown in genocide and an agreement for Hamas to release prisoners in exchange for Israel temporarily releasing hostages that historically they just re-abduct within days anyways. And then after 40 days it’s full speed ahead of civilian slaughter again, probably with a freshly regrouped and re-armed IOF.
Telodzrum@lemmy.world
on 29 Apr 19:21
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You’re looking at this wrong – neither Bibi’s government or Hamas care about Palestinian deaths.
Hamas very much cares about Palestinian deaths. Which is why a 40 day ceasefire and then more Genocide is pointless.
Telodzrum@lemmy.world
on 29 Apr 20:29
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Most unhinged comment
DancingBear@midwest.social
on 29 Apr 20:35
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If by unhinged, you mean logical and accurate, then yes.
disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
on 30 Apr 03:39
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Since the Battle of Gaza in 2007, Hamas has used Palestinians as human shields, turned their hospitals and schools into war zones by shooting rockets from rooftops, and are currently stealing humanitarian aid and selling it to the Palestinians at extortionate prices. You honestly can’t be serious.
Edit: NATO has documented multiple violations of the Geneva Convention by Hamas putting innocent civilians in harms way, as stated above. Neither the IDF nor Hamas care to protect Palestinians.
This is just a pile of Israeli propaganda to discredit Hamas. None of it is specific or quantifiable, because anything specific would be disproven. Every hospital Israel lays siege to they claim is a Hamas command center, until it’s in ruins and they don’t find any supporting evidence. They whine about “human shields”, but the reality is that they live in an extremely dense territory with no real way to fully separate military and civilian uses, unlike Israel which does have the space but chooses to put military installations in residential areas anyways, just like how they put settlers on occupied, stolen Palestinian land.
Not only that, if they actually read the article, it’s just vague accusations from Israel and NATO, absolutely nothing specific, followed by a bunch of analysis that shows the claims are inaccurate and intentionally misleading.
disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
on 30 Apr 13:37
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disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
on 30 Apr 13:59
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I’m not defending Israel, or criticizing Palestinians. I’m criticizing the comment that Hamas cares about Palestinian lives while there’s documentation of them putting them directly in harms way according to the Geneva Convention.
tortillaPeanuts@lemmy.world
on 29 Apr 22:14
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Israel temporarily releasing hostages that historically they just re-abduct within days
Can you explain this or link something? I know Israel imprisoning Palestinians for years without charges is monstrous but I haven’t heard of them doing this after prisoner exchanges.
I could have worded it better. I’m not necessarily saying that Israel will re-abduct the exact same Palestinians within a few days, but rather than Israel is constantly taking hostages. Israel could agree to release 100 hostages, but what’s the point when they’ll end up abducting 200 more the following week. It’s why prisoner swaps with Israel heavily favor Israel, they see hostages as a renewable ressource.
tortillaPeanuts@lemmy.world
on 30 Apr 05:27
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Oh I see. I wonder if they increase arrests after prisoner exchanges, I’ll have to look up the numbers if they’re available. I see your point though Israel is constantly imprisoning more people so the exchanges aren’t exactly equivalent. The difference between hostage and prisoner is complicated though, it’s basically just the accusation of some crime, Hamas doesn’t really claim the people they take have done any specific crime but most of the time Israel doesn’t either because they hold people without charges so it is very similar.
Yeah, and I’m sure they’re dumb enough to fall for it the eighth time. Israel’s definitely done genociding this time, they pinkie promised they won’t come back and finish the job in another two decades when everyone forgets again. If only Hamas could be more reasonable and just accept Israel’s incredibly generous offer to return to the status quo of Israeli settlers stealing Palestinian land and killing them when they protest!
If only Hamas could be more reasonable and just accept Israel’s incredibly generous offer to return to the status quo of Israeli settlers stealing Palestinian land and killing them when they protest!
As opposed to the current situation of Israeli settlers stealing Palestinian land and killing them even when they don’t protest?
Fuck, the solution to being a captive who believes they will be killed isn’t to put your captor’s gun to your head and tell them to pull the trigger. If you’re operating off of the assumption that a ceasefire is unacceptable short of Israeli capitulation to Palestinian demands, regardless of how justified, despite the fact that they have overwhelming superiority at this point in time and are on the cusp of completing their long-awaited genocide… I don’t really know what the fuck to tell you.
That’s not what I’m accusing you of. I got that you’re pro-Palestinian, very clearly. I’m saying that Hamas is not in a strategically good situation, and if your opinion is that any ceasefire offers should be categorically refused by Hamas unless Hamas’s demands are met, despite Hamas currently being in a very bad position relative to Israel forces, and the intensified state of the Israeli genocide, you’re not being realistic.
Any ceasefire that is accepted will necessarily favor Israel at this point, because Israel controls half of Gaza completely and is on the cusp of starving hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to death. Not to mention the damage done to Hamas’s material capacities to resist. I don’t know that accepting this ceasefire is the right strategic choice, but I am certain that “Continue fighting until Palestinian independence is achieved in this phase of the Israel-Palestinian conflict” rather than accepting that not every battle is won in a decades-long war is just suicide on a national scale.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
on 29 Apr 20:26
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despite Hamas currently being in a very bad position relative to Israel forces
Hamas barely lost any top ranking officers. Meanwhile israel is losing international support at lightning speed.
The only one with their backs against the wall right now is israel. If they aren’t going to come through with a Palestinian state then Hamas doesn’t have much to lose right now by just dragging israel through the mud further.
If they aren't going to come through with a Palestinian state then Hamas doesn't have much to lose right now by just dragging israel through the mud further.
That's an interesting take. I think more Palestinian deaths would be a pretty significant amount for Hamas to lose. Seems like you're not at concerned about the genocide as you pretend to be.
but right now, Hamas is actually getting what it wants for the first time ever. People are now actually demanding an end to the Israeli apartheid, even though the genocide was happening long before October 7th. They’re no longer suffering in silence, there are members of the West that support Palestine now. That is a massive, massive difference compared to conflicts like the 2014 Gazan War or the many Intifadas, where Israel committed many of the same war crimes today but faced zero consequences internationally for them.
At the same time, the West has the memory of a goldfish. If Hamas cedes now, and we do the dance of both sides planning up for a future conflict again, how can Hamas trust that they’ll receive Western support again? How can they know they won’t be villified, and Israel won’t get away with just committing more warcrimes on them? How do they even know there will be a next time, that Israel won’t strike first next time and exterminate all that remains of Palestine, after another few years of illegal settlements concentrates the population even further?
Their best bet is to maintain the current conflict for as long as possible, and hope that international support doesn’t just require Israel to agree to a mutually beneficial ceasefire, but also that international support adds some guard rails to prevent such force from being used against Palestine again. You’re correct that it’s unreasonable to think that this conflict will end with a two-state solution, or really any solution at all. That doesn’t mean Hamas should accept a spit in the face, which is exactly what the current ceasefire terms are.
DancingBear@midwest.social
on 29 Apr 21:23
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☝️
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 29 Apr 18:48
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Apart from anything else, you know this is a bad deal because David Cameron likes it.
nkat2112@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Apr 18:50
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The depressing alliteration of the day: generous genocide
Live_Let_Live@lemmy.world
on 29 Apr 19:23
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surely leaflets will be dropped of incoming artillery fire and distribution of aid to civilians and helping the ones injured , in a genocide
natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
on 29 Apr 19:32
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Lol, wth is this bullshit? We’re past the point of this kind of propaganda having any kind of effect, dude. They fucking double tapped World Central Kitchen workers who were in contact with the IDF to make sure their route was approved.
Live_Let_Live@lemmy.world
on 30 Apr 10:59
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idf are child killers because hamas uses child soldiers , straight from houthi-iranian playbook
mass graves are because of hamas
surely children can not be brainwashed to carry out terrorist attacks
natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
on 30 Apr 11:06
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No, the IDF are child killers because they kill indiscriminately.
The children are not Hamas. The World Central Kitchen workers are not Hamas. The medics, doctors and patients in hospitals are not Hamas. The people cut down while following Israel’s evacuation orders are not Hamas.
IvanOverdrive@lemm.ee
on 29 Apr 19:10
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I doubt Netanyahu will agree. As soon as the war stops, he’ll face corruption charges. On top of that he wants the genocide.
natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
on 29 Apr 19:29
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That’s the beauty of it, the deal isn’t for an end to the genocide, just a temporary pause so that Israeli hostages can be exchanged for Palestinian ones.
And then presumably the released Palestinians will be bombed.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
on 29 Apr 20:22
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A 40 day ceasefire… The original offer was 6 weeks… That’s 42 days…
There is no point for Hamas to engage with any of these fake ceasefire deals. Either a permanent ceasefire is offered or it’s pointless.
The Biden Propaganda train is off the charts.
wurzelgummidge@lemmy.world
on 30 Apr 04:32
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Biden doesn’t know his arse from his elbow, he just says what the Neocons in the CIA tell him to
DancingBear@midwest.social
on 29 Apr 20:33
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If I was Hamas I would give Israel the finger and laugh at them. This is not an offer in good faith.
Biden is worried about the optics of the genocide he is fully supporting, but he isn’t really doing a damn thing to stop it.
Biden was just barely going to be able to eek out a win under the best of circumstances before this started, now however I don’t think he can win the election, specifically because of his full gung ho support for this genocide.
And the fact that he is calling the protestors anti semites is completely laughable.
Biden isn’t going to take any real concrete discernible action to stop a literal genocide and that is going to cost him this election.
And whoever wins the election is also going to support the genocide. But I guess if Trump wins it will be the biggest genocide, the best genocide. Everyone will be saying it.
(From Hamas’ point of view the only acceptable compromise is a total end of the hostilities on both sides. Any temporary solution will only allow Israel to continue the genocide after the 40 days)
ReallyKinda@kbin.social
on 29 Apr 21:31
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If I was in politics or was looking to get into politics in the future, I would be trying to get arrested publicly for this. Look at the people who got arrested during the civil rights movement.
threaded - newest
I don’t fucking know that ‘generous’ is the right word, considering both the terms and the fact that this situation is from Israel pursuing genocide.
But I also don’t know how much better they can get in their position.
Gods only know what the strategically wise choice is here.
I don’t see how this is even particularly generous. It’s a 40 day slowdown in genocide and an agreement for Hamas to release prisoners in exchange for Israel temporarily releasing hostages that historically they just re-abduct within days anyways. And then after 40 days it’s full speed ahead of civilian slaughter again, probably with a freshly regrouped and re-armed IOF.
You’re looking at this wrong – neither Bibi’s government or Hamas care about Palestinian deaths.
Hamas very much cares about Palestinian deaths. Which is why a 40 day ceasefire and then more Genocide is pointless.
Most unhinged comment
If by unhinged, you mean logical and accurate, then yes.
Since the Battle of Gaza in 2007, Hamas has used Palestinians as human shields, turned their hospitals and schools into war zones by shooting rockets from rooftops, and are currently stealing humanitarian aid and selling it to the Palestinians at extortionate prices. You honestly can’t be serious.
Edit: NATO has documented multiple violations of the Geneva Convention by Hamas putting innocent civilians in harms way, as stated above. Neither the IDF nor Hamas care to protect Palestinians.
stratcomcoe.org/…/hamas_human_shields.pdf
This is just a pile of Israeli propaganda to discredit Hamas. None of it is specific or quantifiable, because anything specific would be disproven. Every hospital Israel lays siege to they claim is a Hamas command center, until it’s in ruins and they don’t find any supporting evidence. They whine about “human shields”, but the reality is that they live in an extremely dense territory with no real way to fully separate military and civilian uses, unlike Israel which does have the space but chooses to put military installations in residential areas anyways, just like how they put settlers on occupied, stolen Palestinian land.
Confirmed by the use of human shields?
en.wikipedia.org/…/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas
Your source starts with Israel says and you’re calling others spreading propaganda???
Not only that, if they actually read the article, it’s just vague accusations from Israel and NATO, absolutely nothing specific, followed by a bunch of analysis that shows the claims are inaccurate and intentionally misleading.
Would you prefer NATO?
stratcomcoe.org/…/hamas_human_shields.pdf
Much better than Israel says, but still showing neither care about civilians.
Still doesn’t give them the right to kill civilians
amnesty.org/…/israelgaza-conflict-questions-and-a…
I’m not defending Israel, or criticizing Palestinians. I’m criticizing the comment that Hamas cares about Palestinian lives while there’s documentation of them putting them directly in harms way according to the Geneva Convention.
Can you explain this or link something? I know Israel imprisoning Palestinians for years without charges is monstrous but I haven’t heard of them doing this after prisoner exchanges.
I could have worded it better. I’m not necessarily saying that Israel will re-abduct the exact same Palestinians within a few days, but rather than Israel is constantly taking hostages. Israel could agree to release 100 hostages, but what’s the point when they’ll end up abducting 200 more the following week. It’s why prisoner swaps with Israel heavily favor Israel, they see hostages as a renewable ressource.
Oh I see. I wonder if they increase arrests after prisoner exchanges, I’ll have to look up the numbers if they’re available. I see your point though Israel is constantly imprisoning more people so the exchanges aren’t exactly equivalent. The difference between hostage and prisoner is complicated though, it’s basically just the accusation of some crime, Hamas doesn’t really claim the people they take have done any specific crime but most of the time Israel doesn’t either because they hold people without charges so it is very similar.
Yeah, and I’m sure they’re dumb enough to fall for it the eighth time. Israel’s definitely done genociding this time, they pinkie promised they won’t come back and finish the job in another two decades when everyone forgets again. If only Hamas could be more reasonable and just accept Israel’s incredibly generous offer to return to the status quo of Israeli settlers stealing Palestinian land and killing them when they protest!
As opposed to the current situation of Israeli settlers stealing Palestinian land and killing them even when they don’t protest?
Fuck, the solution to being a captive who believes they will be killed isn’t to put your captor’s gun to your head and tell them to pull the trigger. If you’re operating off of the assumption that a ceasefire is unacceptable short of Israeli capitulation to Palestinian demands, regardless of how justified, despite the fact that they have overwhelming superiority at this point in time and are on the cusp of completing their long-awaited genocide… I don’t really know what the fuck to tell you.
If you read my comment and seriously came away with the idea that I support what Israel is doing, I don’t really know what the fuck to tell you.
That’s not what I’m accusing you of. I got that you’re pro-Palestinian, very clearly. I’m saying that Hamas is not in a strategically good situation, and if your opinion is that any ceasefire offers should be categorically refused by Hamas unless Hamas’s demands are met, despite Hamas currently being in a very bad position relative to Israel forces, and the intensified state of the Israeli genocide, you’re not being realistic.
Any ceasefire that is accepted will necessarily favor Israel at this point, because Israel controls half of Gaza completely and is on the cusp of starving hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to death. Not to mention the damage done to Hamas’s material capacities to resist. I don’t know that accepting this ceasefire is the right strategic choice, but I am certain that “Continue fighting until Palestinian independence is achieved in this phase of the Israel-Palestinian conflict” rather than accepting that not every battle is won in a decades-long war is just suicide on a national scale.
Hamas barely lost any top ranking officers. Meanwhile israel is losing international support at lightning speed.
The only one with their backs against the wall right now is israel. If they aren’t going to come through with a Palestinian state then Hamas doesn’t have much to lose right now by just dragging israel through the mud further.
That's an interesting take. I think more Palestinian deaths would be a pretty significant amount for Hamas to lose. Seems like you're not at concerned about the genocide as you pretend to be.
They think that October 7 was targeted legitimate resistance. They’re not exactly the most moral poster on here.
but right now, Hamas is actually getting what it wants for the first time ever. People are now actually demanding an end to the Israeli apartheid, even though the genocide was happening long before October 7th. They’re no longer suffering in silence, there are members of the West that support Palestine now. That is a massive, massive difference compared to conflicts like the 2014 Gazan War or the many Intifadas, where Israel committed many of the same war crimes today but faced zero consequences internationally for them.
At the same time, the West has the memory of a goldfish. If Hamas cedes now, and we do the dance of both sides planning up for a future conflict again, how can Hamas trust that they’ll receive Western support again? How can they know they won’t be villified, and Israel won’t get away with just committing more warcrimes on them? How do they even know there will be a next time, that Israel won’t strike first next time and exterminate all that remains of Palestine, after another few years of illegal settlements concentrates the population even further?
Their best bet is to maintain the current conflict for as long as possible, and hope that international support doesn’t just require Israel to agree to a mutually beneficial ceasefire, but also that international support adds some guard rails to prevent such force from being used against Palestine again. You’re correct that it’s unreasonable to think that this conflict will end with a two-state solution, or really any solution at all. That doesn’t mean Hamas should accept a spit in the face, which is exactly what the current ceasefire terms are.
☝️
Apart from anything else, you know this is a bad deal because David Cameron likes it.
The depressing alliteration of the day: generous genocide
surely leaflets will be dropped of incoming artillery fire and distribution of aid to civilians and helping the ones injured , in a genocide
www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=1kjz4YTiOt8
www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/…/fulltext
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?app=desktop&v=1kjz4YTiOt8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Lol, wth is this bullshit? We’re past the point of this kind of propaganda having any kind of effect, dude. They fucking double tapped World Central Kitchen workers who were in contact with the IDF to make sure their route was approved.
The IDF are child killers.
They are bulldozing cemetaries explicitly.
There are mass graves where they executed doctors, patients and sheltering civilians.
They’re drawing people out of safe zones using drones playing recordings of screams and cries for help.
Detaining and stripping children as prisoners.
Sniping seven and eight year olds.
What planet are you on right now?
idf are child killers because hamas uses child soldiers , straight from houthi-iranian playbook
mass graves are because of hamas
surely children can not be brainwashed to carry out terrorist attacks
No, the IDF are child killers because they kill indiscriminately.
The children are not Hamas. The World Central Kitchen workers are not Hamas. The medics, doctors and patients in hospitals are not Hamas. The people cut down while following Israel’s evacuation orders are not Hamas.
I doubt Netanyahu will agree. As soon as the war stops, he’ll face corruption charges. On top of that he wants the genocide.
That’s the beauty of it, the deal isn’t for an end to the genocide, just a temporary pause so that Israeli hostages can be exchanged for Palestinian ones.
And then presumably the released Palestinians will be bombed.
A 40 day ceasefire… The original offer was 6 weeks… That’s 42 days…
There is no point for Hamas to engage with any of these fake ceasefire deals. Either a permanent ceasefire is offered or it’s pointless.
The Biden Propaganda train is off the charts.
Biden doesn’t know his arse from his elbow, he just says what the Neocons in the CIA tell him to
If I was Hamas I would give Israel the finger and laugh at them. This is not an offer in good faith.
Biden is worried about the optics of the genocide he is fully supporting, but he isn’t really doing a damn thing to stop it.
Biden was just barely going to be able to eek out a win under the best of circumstances before this started, now however I don’t think he can win the election, specifically because of his full gung ho support for this genocide.
And the fact that he is calling the protestors anti semites is completely laughable.
Biden isn’t going to take any real concrete discernible action to stop a literal genocide and that is going to cost him this election.
And whoever wins the election is also going to support the genocide. But I guess if Trump wins it will be the biggest genocide, the best genocide. Everyone will be saying it.
(From Hamas’ point of view the only acceptable compromise is a total end of the hostilities on both sides. Any temporary solution will only allow Israel to continue the genocide after the 40 days)
If I was in politics or was looking to get into politics in the future, I would be trying to get arrested publicly for this. Look at the people who got arrested during the civil rights movement.
An article telling us about the extraordinarily generous offer should include what the terms are in a bullet list…
The idea is to generate anti-Palestinian outrage while hiding details that could allow individuals to understand or make their own considerations.
It’s the Washington Examiner. It’s just barely not a tabloid.
They’d have to be stupid to take this deal lol