King Charles won’t stand in the way if ‘Australia wants to become a republic’
(www.theguardian.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 12 Oct 2024 11:54
https://lemmy.world/post/20771222
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 12 Oct 2024 11:54
https://lemmy.world/post/20771222
Charles said to be adopting ‘anti-confrontational approach’ to republican campaigners before visit
King Charles has said he will not stand in the way if Australia wishes to replace him as the country’s head of state, it has been reported.
Ahead of his visit later this month, the king is said to be adopting an “anti-confrontational approach” to Australian republican campaigners, the Daily Mail reported.
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/12/king-charles-wont-stand-in-way-if-australia-wants-to-become-republic
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13951303/Charles-says-wont-stop-Australia-axing-British-monarchy-King-tells-republican-campaigners-deep-love-country-wouldnt-block-moves-republic-ahead-historic-tour.html
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Ol’ Sausage Fingers can stand?
Now Canada do the same!!
Is that something Québécois might actually agree with anglophones on?
Abolishing the monarchy would involve rewriting the constitution - if that was happening every province would want to slip in their own terms - Quebec would want specific French language rights and autonomy and if Quebec got their way Alberta would want something similar. We successfully altered the constitution back in 1982 - it took 2 years and the country almost blew up over it.
Basically it would be a total shit show. Considering the impact the monarchy has on our day to day life (basically zero) it’s easier to just let sleeping dogs lie
Hell, Quebec still to this day hasn’t ratified the 1982 update. They kept using the notwithstanding clause for years until the supreme court unilaterally decided that since QC is part of Canada, the constitution applies there in practice despite them not signing it.
Man, I didn’t even think about Quebec.
Some treaties that the French sign have had them require a French version and that the French version be equally-binding. I imagine that this makes any form of translation difference exciting. Is this the case for Quebec?
searches
Apparently so.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Act,_1982
Additional wrinkle: my understanding is that the question of what parts of Canadian law are part of the constitution and what are not is an active legal question being gradually resolved by courts.
The UK doesn’t have any formal constitution, as the bar for Parliament to change anything it wants is the same – a simple majority.
Canada’s legal system was originally structured in a similar way, and did not have an explicit constitution written. When it became independent, part of the process indicated that some of that body of law was part of the constitution. And in present-day Canada, as in the US, it does matter whether a piece of law is part of the constitution, as the constitution has a different legal status from ordinary federal law.
But because the division is not presently fully-defined, I imagine that a rewrite would be a pretty substantial task, even above what would typically be the case.
en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_Canadian_constitutiona…
On the up side, I suppose that doing such a rewrite would clear this up. On the down side, I imagine that an actual rewrite would be an unholy mess from a legal standpoint, as it’d have to resolve what the constitution is at one go.
Just touching on point, doesn’t the UK not have a constitution because it’s basically whatever the Monarch says? And there is basically an agreement to off on whatever the MPs decide because otherwise they would officially overthrow the monarch
No. In the 2024 British system of government, the monarch has essentially no power. The upper house of the bicameral legislature, the House of Lords, has very little power.
Virtually all power is wielded by whoever controls a simple majority in the House of Commons, the lower house. They can do anything (short of limiting what future Parliaments can do). Rewrite any law, whatever.
My understanding is that this is largely a result of having a system constructed in an aristocratic period, and shifts in power occurring, but the system of government not being restructured.
In, say, the US, the constitution limits and specifies the powers of government. It places a set of constraints on what Congress and other bodies can do.
The British system evolved from a situation where the aristocrats were represented in the House of Lords, the monarch was his own thing, and the rest of the public in the House of Commons.
Part of the transition over time was to limit the power that the king had. The Magna Carta constrains what the king can do, shifted away from an absolute monarchy. In that sense, the UK is nominally a constitutional monarchy.
But since the king has no real power today, power has shifted from the monarch, the written restrictions on his power are essentially meaningless.
Over time, the aristocracy also lost power. The House of Lords lost most powers it has, and today has very little actual power – I believe that perhaps the most-notable is the ability to delay legislation for a period of time.
Where basically all the power has concentrated is in the House of Commons.
And that has no real restriction on it. The Magna Carta doesn’t restrict Parliament. Parliament has modified text from the Magna Carta with a simple majority before.
There is no power of judicial review over the legislature on the UK – laws Parliament passes cannot be ruled unconstitutional. The executive is subject to judicial review – there were some notable UK Supreme Court cases in the part few years relating to the actions of the prime minister. But the legislature is not – the judiciary cannot rule a law passed by Parliament to be unconstitutional.
I once read something calling the UK an “absolute republic”. I think that that’s probably a much-more-apt description for the state of affairs in 2024 than its official designation as a constitutional monarchy. The UK, as it exists in 2024, isn’t run by a monarch whose powers are limited by a constitution. It’s run by a simoel majority in the lower house of a legislature who have no real limitations on their powers.
Not only that, but the one great convention is that Parliament cannot be bound. So Parliament cannot go write a constitution and then have it bind future Parliaments. That future Parliament could rewrite it as easily as they could do anything else, with a simple majority.
My belief – and this is me talking here, not some British constitutional law expert – is that the plan had been to move the UK to something that looked more like a conventional, constitutional republic by way of its EU membership, by some fancy legal and political footwork. If the UK signs onto a treaty, then it cannot do something against that treaty without violating the treaty. Parliament can still, perfectly legally under UK law, instruct the UK to violate treaties. But that would have consequences with the rest of the EU, and there would come a point in political integration where being in trouble with the EU would be unthinkable, so the UK would have become de facto a constitutional republic (or part of a constitutional republic).
If that was indeed the plan, I’d say that it was actually quite impressive – the UK has a very elderly system of government that has, over time, managed to transform itself into very different forms, de facto without revolution or an official break with the past system by kinda kludging things, and some elaborate legal reasoning. This would have added another transformation.
But with Brexit, I suppose that that’s off the table, at least for some time.
Sort of. There are a lot of things that are formally done by the King by way of the King-in-Parliament, where British sovereignty is theoretically vested, is the “ultimate power” in the legal system, the way the US Constitution is in the US. But in practice, the King doesn’t really have a choice as to whether to do them or not,
I dunno, I’ve met plenty of monarchist Anglos and plenty of anti monarchist Anglos and never one monarchist Quebecois or Quebecoise
I am one. I’m a pretty weak monarchist, though, it’s just that I look south and I’m glad that there’s a “higher level” looking over our politicians. Even if the GG nominations aren’t always ideal, at least in theory they aren’t beholden to popular opinion. The fact that they’re nominated and not elected ensures that they don’t have the legitimacy to push their own agenda either. So it’s a powerful position, but mostly symbolically and there would be a lot of backlash if some ambitious GG tried to use this power for anything other than extreme cases.
In my opinion, this is partly why our politics haven’t yet devolved to the point of getting a Donald Trump. You can say what you want about Trudeau, but at least the government doesn’t shut down every so often just because they can’t agree on a budget.
It could be argued that the senate (also being unelected) is better at filling the role you ascribe to the GG. If anything it’s even better, since they don’t serve for a set term, and they have a much more involved legislative role.
You might be right, but our southern neighbours also have a Senate and it doesn’t seem to help…
Bonjour hi, I knew there had to be some Franco monarchists, I’d just never met any. I don’t know if I completely agree but I appreciate the perspective.
Not without strings attached, as usual.
Canadians don’t feel strongly enough to go through the hassle of rewriting our Constitution.
Fuck, if we tried it some asshole in Alberta would probably sneak in language that vaccinations are illegal and masks cause cancer. Let’s not open that can of worms when we’ve got batshit insane conservatives about to seize power.
Yeah our constitution needs to stay closed until some sense of sanity returns to politics here, and I don’t see that happening for a long time.
I’d be satisfied if we got monarchs off our money, and removed them from public life as much as possible without amending the constitution. If I don’t have to look at it Im happy
Same in Australia.
No, Canadians don’t have any sort of party which can bring about any change. Most of us hate the monarchy
What a guy! See? The British monarchy isn’t all bad!
~/s~
He also sells cookies. Everyone likes cookies! I mean they’re shitty shortbread ones, but…
Those are biscuits sir. There are now British troops at your door to kill your family and subvert your culture. (This comment may be extreme, but I’m gonna go with it)
I didn’t want to be accused of cultural appropriation (although I am a dual US-UK citizen thanks to a British father).
Plus, it’s very difficult to get biscuits and gravy over there. They look at you funny.
The Brits:
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/fe34fe3f-c758-48b9-84bd-88a10cd5f377.gif">
Oh I know. I once had the privilege of explaining the concept of biscuits and gravy to none other than former Sixth Doctor Colin Baker. That was essentially his reaction.
But I’m in Indiana and around here, that’s pretty standard breakfast fare.
You can’t not love this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzdbFnv4yWQ
Lots of fun! A few notes though.
I am American by the way. That said, what sausage are you using in your gravy? I have personally never had a spicy version. Why only steak is referred to as chicken fried, instead of everything dipped in batter and deep fried, I have no idea. And I’m only mildly interested, so I probably wont look into it. I will keep eating it though.
Really? It’s always a bit spicy up here. Not like Mexican spicy or even close. Just noticeable heat.
How dare you, shortbread is delicious
You are welcome to their incorrect opinion.
You know what, that earns him a lot of respect points in my eyes. This is a good king.
I wonder if this is the first step toward dissolving the monarchy.
Suppose that Australia wants to become republic.
Scenario A: King Charles tries to oppose this. His opposition is overridden by, you know, democracy. Now he looks like even more of a schmuck for standing in the way of something that was going to happen anyway.
Scenario B: He doesn’t oppose it. Australia votes to become a republic, and seems like a cool guy for not standing in the way of the inevitable.
Seems like a pretty straightforward choice between options.
The thing is: not being a massive asshole for 0 reason is now soaring above the bar of expected behavior in most cases.
So many people are assholes just for the sake of being assholes.
I like that he just said ’your call’, even if he can’t do anything about it .
Trump would threaten to send in the army, then hurricanes, then nukes, then nuclear hurricanes.
Tangental: your comment made me curious where, in global terms, hurricanes are even able to form. Surprisingly (to me), a lot of areas.
thoughtco.com/global-hurricane-basins-3443941
Finally!
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/77877e8e-92e4-456a-9da3-739abb958fb5.png">
Priorities:
AUSTRALIA CHOOSES:
Bunch of bogons.
So, countries can multitask. I don’t believe that it’s a fair criticism of an action to say “I want the country to do this other action that I want”.
It might be a fair criticism to say “the country isn’t doing the thing that I want”.
But countries are large organizations. There are many, many things that a country does in a given year, and many of them won’t be the particular concern of some given individual. But that doesn’t imply that those things shouldn’t (or should) be done.
Australia already spends time and money maintaining the English monarch as the head of state. And it’s not a ceremonial position; the governor-general has reserve powers, such as the ability to remove office holders, like in 1975. It is only convention, not law that appoints and makes the GG act on the PMs ‘recommendations’ rather than the Monarch; the description of the office has not been rewritten. We can’t rely on convention to govern a country and need to have explicit laws that match our ideals of how a democracy should behave. It’s unexploded ordinance that should be cleaned up… let’s do that rather than spending our time and money changing all the pictures on the money, and the pronouns on all the legal documents each time a monarch croaks.
This isn’t even on the radar, there’s no support for this at this time. Just a few nutters got an audience with the king and now there’s an article about it.
Now do Scotland.