T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 13:06
nextcollapse
Thanks usa
Marthirial@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 13:19
nextcollapse
Iran unable to open the Strait of Hormuz to more shipping traffic because it needs to keep it full of mines as long as Israel doesn’t respect the ceasefire.
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
on 11 Apr 14:01
nextcollapse
*According to the united states State Department, not Iran.
I don’t know why Iran would be more credible. Counting Israel, the three regimes are all infamous and world-class liars. If we can’t trust the word on any of them in isolation, trusting one over another would be madness.
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
on 11 Apr 22:44
nextcollapse
The reason you believe Iran is a ‘world class liar’ is because of your addiction to Amerisreali propaganda.
Just a reminder EVERY INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO IRAN, REGARDLESS OF SUBJECT, HAS SHOWN IRAN HAS ONLY EVER REPORTED FACTS.
They are a third-world country, they don’t have the luxury of lying. period.
Hey I’m not trying to attack you, and I did not disagree with the nuclear inspection reports (though technically you didn’t cite that you just pointed vaguely in the direction of where citations would not exist), I just asked for more than one example. You are the one making the claim that every international report says the Iranians have never lied, I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for, say, three specific examples of those reports.
I’m not looking to debunk, I’m looking to learn and as you have pointed out, Google is only going to show me the propaganda view and not the international reports you have claimed exist that say “EVERY INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO IRAN, REGARDLESS OF SUBJECT, HAS SHOWN IRAN HAS ONLY EVER REPORTED FACTS.”
Absence of reporting from sources other than US news is not evidence of Iran being proven to be telling the truth about every situation they’ve ever talked about. Show me some of these international reports, I would love to read them.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 10:37
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They once posted a photo of a “crashed F-35” that was so obviously AI generated that there were people the size of garden gnomes walking around the cockpit area.
I get what you’re trying to go for here, yes, a lot of what we know about Iran is filtered through Western propaganda, but it’s also true that they lie, and badly, all the time. America being bad didn’t make the Iranian regime good.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 12:52
collapse
Hmm, looks like you’re right. That specific image wasn’t actually circulated by an official Iranian source.
I’ll admit I missed that, because it was so consistent with all of the other messaging coming out of Iran. The image circulated at a time where - with zero evidence to the effect, and a lot of evidence to the contrary - Iran was claiming to have shot down something like four or five Isreal F-35’s. As far as any independent observers can tell the actual number was zero. Then there’s the current conflict where Iran took videos of a wrecked F-15 and claimed it was an F-35, among other obvious lies.
I’ll freely grant you that specific case; we all get caught out sometimes. But you’re the one trying to argue that Iran, a nation with a long history of proven blatant falsehoods in their official messaging, are some kind of paragons of truth. That doesn’t mean that the US doesn’t also lie like crazy. A lot of nations do. It just means you’re in idiot if you go buying into this teenage morality idea that “US bad = Iran good.” They’re an autocratic regime that lies reflexively… Just like the Trump administration. Anything they say has to be treated with a baseline level of suspicion, and it’s absurd to argue otherwise.
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
on 12 Apr 13:06
collapse
Again, Iran never claimed to shoot down multiple F-35s. They did believe they shot down the F-35 that they put out of service, but that could be generously interpreted as ‘did enough damage to remove it from service permanently’ rather than it actively crashing before returning to base; which western sources agree with.
So again, YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN WHERE THEY HAVE LIED ONCE.
Not a single time.
You have been repeating random things you have seen but have never checked in on, because your brain has been gangraped by the Amerisraeli empire into just being mush.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 13:47
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Iranian state media, quoting military sources, reported that two F-35I Adirs were intercepted and downed by Iranian air defense units during or immediately after their bombing run on targets near Natanz and other strategic installations. One of the pilots, described as a female aviator, was allegedly captured after ejecting over Iranian territory. Iranian Press TV wasted no time in proclaiming this as a global first: “Iran has earned the distinction of being the first country in the world to successfully shoot down fifth-generation fighter jets belonging to the Zionist regime.”
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
on 12 Apr 13:54
collapse
So that’s a no, you have no legitimate source for your beliefs. If you did… you’d just post the Iranian state media post that supposedly exists.
While lot of articles were spawned by the israeli state media post that wholesale made up this idea, NOT ONE SINGLE SOURCE FROM IRAN EXISTS THAT STATES THIS. Not a single one.
So since there are no primary sources for this claim, I would hope you would reconsider your beliefs and maybe be a little critical in the future.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 04:12
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But the original comment wasn’t trusting Iran, it was mistrusting the US.
If Iran said “yea, you can come through now, trust me bro” then I’d be suspicious.
blueworld@piefed.world
on 11 Apr 14:06
nextcollapse
From Sal, it’s less that they can’t find them then they are creating a toll booth chokepoint.
I would design water mines with propellers and encrypted tracking.
Move them around when letting someone pass and move them back to where they were. That way if some asshat thought they could just track the previous ship’s route to bypass the mines, they would be in for a surprise.
I would also move them around a bit all the time.
I would also have the coordinates be encrypted in a way that it seemed like it was easy to break. But actually it was a fake out and gave the wrong coordinates to whomever tried to hack it.
Surprise mf-er.
Pentagon would be like. “We so smart. We totally figured out their encryption and we know where all the mines are”.
Because people who think they are hot shit always fall for that kind of thing. Always.
I would also have a lot of fake mines all over. Those would be where the fake-out coordinates said they were.
That would definitely make the Pentagon think they cracked the encryption and also maybe waste a bunch of missiles on trying to shoot them.
Anyway. That would be my strategy.
Typotyper@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 11:15
nextcollapse
Why not use remote torpedo’s on the bottom. They could sit idle until called upon, they could be fired by acoustics, all tracking is passive- no transmitted signals, they have actual range and reach as opposed to local contact
lagoon8622@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 18:28
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This is not a new idea for littoral defense
NannerBanner@literature.cafe
on 12 Apr 22:56
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Aye, I think people are still imagining sea mines as the old big-ball-with-spikes-anchored-by-a-chain, and haven’t ever looked at how sophisticated minesweeper ships are. Modern mines can determine target ships by electromagnetic profiles, and minesweepers are able to alter their own signature in some pretty wild ways to slip by or get around the mines.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t spiky balls out there in the water, but that’s not the only tool in the kit.
If i was interested in passing and i had the funding there would be satellites close to the atmosphere that make high definition pictures of the strait and an algorithm would spot the mines by deviation of pixelcolour.
Light does not reflect black from water depths very well. Plus water surface is constantly moving. Creating artifacts on photos.
Satalite wouldn’t have the resolution. Drones might. If it was possible for cameras to photograph things sunk in the water.
There are only a few situations where that’s possible. Still water. super clean water. In the day time.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 12 Apr 03:05
nextcollapse
that’s what happens with mines and it’s why they’re not fucking legal at all. you need a bunch of giant rats to help comb the land and they still blow farmers arms off 30 years later. imagine if they were fucking underwater
Typotyper@sh.itjust.works
on 12 Apr 11:11
nextcollapse
yea UNCLOS and LOAC too it’s illegal as fuck according to all of those.
if international law doesn’t exist and national law doesn’t exist and law doesn’t exist then why even talk about any of this? do I even exist? is money real? fuck, it’s like time is just numbers man
DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
on 13 Apr 07:13
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Who said national law doesn’t exist? You break national law, decent chance you end up in prison. That’s real enough, even if not perfect. But what happens when you break international law? 99% of the time, nothing. And in the rare cases something does happen, it’s usually not really because of the law. It’s because countries have incentives independent of the law that make them enforce it. Often, the enforcement being illegal as well. That’s not really law, that is a bunch of outlaws shouting at each other with pipes in their hands, threatning each other.
GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 09:29
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Consider:
You want to play a prank on your friend. She’s about to give a tremendously important piano recital in front of a tremendous crowd. It’s a big deal, but unfortunately, you are an asshole and “It’s just a prank, bro.” You put a woopie-cushion filled with gravy under the seat of maybe a third of the chairs in the auditorium. But these aren’t ordinary woopie-cushions. You replaced the actual seat cushions, disguising them so seamlessly that the only way to find them is to sit down on them. These folding chairs get stacked and put away, and you congratulate yourself, knowing that you did a good job. No one will ever find all the woopie cushions.
Your friend hears about your prank, and in outrage, she cancels the performance and moves it to a venue that doesn’t have landmines. But you have no idea where you planted the landmines anymore. You can take a wild guess, but the point was for them to be an undetectable explosive hazard. And undetectable they remain. A year later, the gravy has rotted and congealed. The few woopie cushions that do go off release a toxic biohazard that gets people seriously sick when they detonate.
You’ve made this music venue completely uninhabitable. They have to close for years to clear the toxic sludge out of every corner of the chair storage area. It’s long and expensive. Ten years later, someone finds a woopie cushion that they missed, and ends up in the hospital with a lung infection.
TL;DR. This would be like planting a woopie cushion under a bunch of folding chairs at a giant music venue. Mines are very hard to find and dangerous to everyone, it’s why they shouldn’t be used.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 10:11
nextcollapse
Piano recitals, toxic gravy, woopie cushions.
This analogy is so relatable.
GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 15:35
nextcollapse
Hey, I’m trying! 🥲
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 12 Apr 18:25
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I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy the analogy.
NannerBanner@literature.cafe
on 12 Apr 22:58
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I think the gravy in the whoopie cushions was a meme posted on lemmy in the last few days. It’s a great reference!
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 13 Apr 04:51
collapse
Oh. OK.
I’m obviously not here enough to be aware, but I’m glad lemmy is developing it’s own memes.
Haha, I was actually serious! You seem to have a knack for boiled-down analogies. English is not my primary language, so sorry if it came across as satire. :-)
GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
on 17 Apr 14:55
collapse
Oh! I apologize, I thought you were being sarcastic. Forgive me.
threaded - newest
Thanks usa
Iran unable to open the Strait of Hormuz to more shipping traffic because it needs to keep it full of mines as long as Israel doesn’t respect the ceasefire.
*According to the united states State Department, not Iran.
Yeah, I do not trust anything the American government or its media say at this point.
I don’t know why Iran would be more credible. Counting Israel, the three regimes are all infamous and world-class liars. If we can’t trust the word on any of them in isolation, trusting one over another would be madness.
The reason you believe Iran is a ‘world class liar’ is because of your addiction to Amerisreali propaganda.
Just a reminder EVERY INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO IRAN, REGARDLESS OF SUBJECT, HAS SHOWN IRAN HAS ONLY EVER REPORTED FACTS.
They are a third-world country, they don’t have the luxury of lying. period.
Please accompany your reminder with sources
Sure. look up any timeline of the iran nuclear deal until the US decided, without evidence, to call Iran a liar and pull out of the deal.
That’s one subject. I’m not disagreeing with you, simply asking for broader citations for your broad claim.
Hey I’m not trying to attack you, and I did not disagree with the nuclear inspection reports (though technically you didn’t cite that you just pointed vaguely in the direction of where citations would not exist), I just asked for more than one example. You are the one making the claim that every international report says the Iranians have never lied, I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for, say, three specific examples of those reports.
I’m not looking to debunk, I’m looking to learn and as you have pointed out, Google is only going to show me the propaganda view and not the international reports you have claimed exist that say “EVERY INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO IRAN, REGARDLESS OF SUBJECT, HAS SHOWN IRAN HAS ONLY EVER REPORTED FACTS.”
Absence of reporting from sources other than US news is not evidence of Iran being proven to be telling the truth about every situation they’ve ever talked about. Show me some of these international reports, I would love to read them.
They once posted a photo of a “crashed F-35” that was so obviously AI generated that there were people the size of garden gnomes walking around the cockpit area.
I get what you’re trying to go for here, yes, a lot of what we know about Iran is filtered through Western propaganda, but it’s also true that they lie, and badly, all the time. America being bad didn’t make the Iranian regime good.
Hmm, looks like you’re right. That specific image wasn’t actually circulated by an official Iranian source.
I’ll admit I missed that, because it was so consistent with all of the other messaging coming out of Iran. The image circulated at a time where - with zero evidence to the effect, and a lot of evidence to the contrary - Iran was claiming to have shot down something like four or five Isreal F-35’s. As far as any independent observers can tell the actual number was zero. Then there’s the current conflict where Iran took videos of a wrecked F-15 and claimed it was an F-35, among other obvious lies.
I’ll freely grant you that specific case; we all get caught out sometimes. But you’re the one trying to argue that Iran, a nation with a long history of proven blatant falsehoods in their official messaging, are some kind of paragons of truth. That doesn’t mean that the US doesn’t also lie like crazy. A lot of nations do. It just means you’re in idiot if you go buying into this teenage morality idea that “US bad = Iran good.” They’re an autocratic regime that lies reflexively… Just like the Trump administration. Anything they say has to be treated with a baseline level of suspicion, and it’s absurd to argue otherwise.
Again, Iran never claimed to shoot down multiple F-35s. They did believe they shot down the F-35 that they put out of service, but that could be generously interpreted as ‘did enough damage to remove it from service permanently’ rather than it actively crashing before returning to base; which western sources agree with.
So again, YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN WHERE THEY HAVE LIED ONCE.
Not a single time.
You have been repeating random things you have seen but have never checked in on, because your brain has been gangraped by the Amerisraeli empire into just being mush.
boltflight.com/f-35-shootdown-controversy-iran-cl…
So that’s a no, you have no legitimate source for your beliefs. If you did… you’d just post the Iranian state media post that supposedly exists.
While lot of articles were spawned by the israeli state media post that wholesale made up this idea, NOT ONE SINGLE SOURCE FROM IRAN EXISTS THAT STATES THIS. Not a single one.
So since there are no primary sources for this claim, I would hope you would reconsider your beliefs and maybe be a little critical in the future.
But the original comment wasn’t trusting Iran, it was mistrusting the US.
If Iran said “yea, you can come through now, trust me bro” then I’d be suspicious.
From Sal, it’s less that they can’t find them then they are creating a toll booth chokepoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9rslGBcEZQ
<img alt="" src="https://media.piefed.world/posts/qB/My/qBMyJaTsFkQnqIn.webp">
This is a huge freedom of navigation issue as well as incursions into Oman territorial waters.
They shouldn’t have started bombing them then
If I was Iran and I had the resources.
I would design water mines with propellers and encrypted tracking.
Move them around when letting someone pass and move them back to where they were. That way if some asshat thought they could just track the previous ship’s route to bypass the mines, they would be in for a surprise.
I would also move them around a bit all the time.
I would also have the coordinates be encrypted in a way that it seemed like it was easy to break. But actually it was a fake out and gave the wrong coordinates to whomever tried to hack it.
Surprise mf-er.
Pentagon would be like. “We so smart. We totally figured out their encryption and we know where all the mines are”.
Because people who think they are hot shit always fall for that kind of thing. Always.
I would also have a lot of fake mines all over. Those would be where the fake-out coordinates said they were.
That would definitely make the Pentagon think they cracked the encryption and also maybe waste a bunch of missiles on trying to shoot them.
Anyway. That would be my strategy.
Why not use remote torpedo’s on the bottom. They could sit idle until called upon, they could be fired by acoustics, all tracking is passive- no transmitted signals, they have actual range and reach as opposed to local contact
This is not a new idea for littoral defense
Aye, I think people are still imagining sea mines as the old big-ball-with-spikes-anchored-by-a-chain, and haven’t ever looked at how sophisticated minesweeper ships are. Modern mines can determine target ships by electromagnetic profiles, and minesweepers are able to alter their own signature in some pretty wild ways to slip by or get around the mines.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t spiky balls out there in the water, but that’s not the only tool in the kit.
Found this image that shows a few types.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3504cd34-06c8-48bf-b297-a0388ff4df81.jpeg">
If i was interested in passing and i had the funding there would be satellites close to the atmosphere that make high definition pictures of the strait and an algorithm would spot the mines by deviation of pixelcolour.
Light does not reflect black from water depths very well. Plus water surface is constantly moving. Creating artifacts on photos.
Satalite wouldn’t have the resolution. Drones might. If it was possible for cameras to photograph things sunk in the water.
There are only a few situations where that’s possible. Still water. super clean water. In the day time.
that’s what happens with mines and it’s why they’re not fucking legal at all. you need a bunch of giant rats to help comb the land and they still blow farmers arms off 30 years later. imagine if they were fucking underwater
The giant rats would drown
They use dolphins in the ocean. (I wish I was kidding).
Except that they are completely legal, you are correct.
afaik it is illegal to use them to block commercial waterways which connect two giant international bodies of water
Illegal according to whom? There is no authority for the entire world.
at least the Hague and the UN and a third one that I actually haven’t heard of before. That’s what defines international law right?
Pretending for a second that international law really exists, it is defined by international treaties. In this case, it would be UNCLOS.
yea UNCLOS and LOAC too it’s illegal as fuck according to all of those.
if international law doesn’t exist and national law doesn’t exist and law doesn’t exist then why even talk about any of this? do I even exist? is money real? fuck, it’s like time is just numbers man
Who said national law doesn’t exist? You break national law, decent chance you end up in prison. That’s real enough, even if not perfect. But what happens when you break international law? 99% of the time, nothing. And in the rare cases something does happen, it’s usually not really because of the law. It’s because countries have incentives independent of the law that make them enforce it. Often, the enforcement being illegal as well. That’s not really law, that is a bunch of outlaws shouting at each other with pipes in their hands, threatning each other.
Well, that is against UNCLOS, but while Iran signed it, they did not ratify it. So, kinda not really.
Not a problem as Trump already said that he removed all of the mines and sunk all of the mine layers.
Doubt.
Consider:
You want to play a prank on your friend. She’s about to give a tremendously important piano recital in front of a tremendous crowd. It’s a big deal, but unfortunately, you are an asshole and “It’s just a prank, bro.” You put a woopie-cushion filled with gravy under the seat of maybe a third of the chairs in the auditorium. But these aren’t ordinary woopie-cushions. You replaced the actual seat cushions, disguising them so seamlessly that the only way to find them is to sit down on them. These folding chairs get stacked and put away, and you congratulate yourself, knowing that you did a good job. No one will ever find all the woopie cushions.
Your friend hears about your prank, and in outrage, she cancels the performance and moves it to a venue that doesn’t have landmines. But you have no idea where you planted the landmines anymore. You can take a wild guess, but the point was for them to be an undetectable explosive hazard. And undetectable they remain. A year later, the gravy has rotted and congealed. The few woopie cushions that do go off release a toxic biohazard that gets people seriously sick when they detonate.
You’ve made this music venue completely uninhabitable. They have to close for years to clear the toxic sludge out of every corner of the chair storage area. It’s long and expensive. Ten years later, someone finds a woopie cushion that they missed, and ends up in the hospital with a lung infection.
TL;DR. This would be like planting a woopie cushion under a bunch of folding chairs at a giant music venue. Mines are very hard to find and dangerous to everyone, it’s why they shouldn’t be used.
Piano recitals, toxic gravy, woopie cushions.
This analogy is so relatable.
Hey, I’m trying! 🥲
I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy the analogy.
I think the gravy in the whoopie cushions was a meme posted on lemmy in the last few days. It’s a great reference!
Oh. OK.
I’m obviously not here enough to be aware, but I’m glad lemmy is developing it’s own memes.
Eventually it will become like reddit, with rice.
Wow. Have you ever considered writing educational books for children?
Haha, I was actually serious! You seem to have a knack for boiled-down analogies. English is not my primary language, so sorry if it came across as satire. :-)
Oh! I apologize, I thought you were being sarcastic. Forgive me.