motor_spirit@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 01:47
nextcollapse
there are people who literally believe in magic and avoid guilt in all capacities in favor for an afterlife free of repercussions
stop the proliferation of ideologies that support fairytale images of uniqueness and pursuit of boundless wealth, they lead to the most ugly behavior towards all other animals including other humans
Lyra_Lycan@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Oct 02:02
nextcollapse
Of course we did bro, AI (or at least, the current use of the term) is here and no multinational conglomerate gives a fuck about the environment any more
explodicle@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Oct 14:55
nextcollapse
Short term profits are way more important than the future of our kids I guess.
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca
on 28 Oct 03:49
nextcollapse
I’m already ashamed of us. I have a hard time walking the fine line between preparing my children for a difficult future and raising kids who know happiness.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 07:10
nextcollapse
I just chose to never have kids because there was never any possibility that humanity would overcome our narcissistic greed prior to ecological collapse.
That was 20 years ago. The last decade has only solidified the certainty of collapse in my mind.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 10:46
nextcollapse
Humanity is conducting a reckless unplanned terraform of the only place that can sustain us within lightyears, at the very least, and have killed off 70% of the macroscopic biomass in less than a human lifetime, but not to fear… Some nonce cunt on the Internet called you a doomer!
I’m sure billions of mentally-ill talking chimps doing whatever they believe benefits them personally will all magically sort itself out before we destroy enough of the natural processes we depend on.
The planet will survive. And there is even a chance that some remnant of humanity might as well - deservedly or no. It is mainly modern society that is done for, and I do not morn its loss.
maccentric@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Oct 16:06
collapse
I mourn the loss of all the flora and fauna we’ll be taking down with us
OpenStars@piefed.social
on 28 Oct 16:43
nextcollapse
I mean yeah - but I do so less for their sake and more for the reason that we should have been responsible and not actively have caused that, you know? imho at least.
There have been mass extinction events many times on earth before, and there probably will be several more times yet again, until the sun dies out or perhaps the planet does prior to that. Perhaps humans will even be around to see the next one(s) too, if we happen to survive this one. That will not negate our responsibility here, but could be true regardless.
We can only control what is within our capability to control. i.e. we need to do the right thing - e.g. reduce our impact - but the actual result of our actions is beyond our control hence I choose not to “worry” about that part of the situation.
Stoicism.
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca
on 29 Oct 02:12
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NewSocialWhoDis@lemmy.zip
on 28 Oct 15:55
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As a parent: happiness is about expectations. The exhuberance of youth can carry them as long as we aren’t preparing them for the halcyon, easy days of the 1990s. Life will be hard, it always has been, but there can still be fun and rewarding experiences. They need to know resilience, independence, and be quick on their feet both mentally and physically.
Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Oct 05:04
nextcollapse
America voted for a child rapist, no one postering actually cares about kids
Even if it wasn’t already too late, the oligarchs profiting from the demise of the planet are in full control of information sources and politicians worldwide. The only way the planet survives is if humanity is wiped out through a global incurable plague at this point.
We have nobody but ourselves to blame for the reckoning that is coming after decades of voting against our own interests and choosing convenience of fossil fuels over the environment.
It’s no use going for collective blame and doomerism.
“We have nobody but ourselves to blame…” yeah, except that guy over there burning coal and guzzling fuel like there’s no tomorrow.
“The only way is to wipe humanity” …or do something about it for once.
As long as we’re here, no matter how bad it is, we have to step against it in the ways we can. It’s not us who makes it so. We don’t want that. And it’s essential to make it a very clear and loud statement one can not turn away from.
Look up your local climate activist groups. See what can be done. Participate in protests. Do it.
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 11:11
nextcollapse
It’s no use going for collective blame and doomerism
Honestly, I think we could have done with a lot more doomerism. thisisfine.jpg-ism is the biggest reason why a political solution is impossible.
yeah, except that guy over there burning coal and guzzling fuel like there’s no tomorrow
You mean the thing that allowed us to reach 8 billion and growing? There’s no way you’re getting from the 19th century to today without fossil fuels. You are here because of them. It’s got nothing to do with “that guy” over there.
Unless you are in a log cabin you hewed yourself by hand, raise chickens with no feedstock that came from fossil-fuel powered agriculture, wear nothing but natural fibers and leather you tanned yourself with oak tannins, etc
That’s a great response for the 1970s but since then we’ve been developing awareness of the magnitude of the crisis and developing solutions. It’s been time to move on from the nineteenth century
We all should have been making better choices for half a century now. If you’re not at least making better choices today, you can’t blame lack of knowledge or lack of technology
You forget to mention the flipside: we can’t sustain 8, let alone 10, billion with sustainable energy. The carrying capacity of the planet with sustainable energy is called the 18th century.
Sure, we can do it, who is ready for the consequences?
bluemoon@piefed.social
on 28 Oct 16:46
nextcollapse
literaly ceasing to throw 1/3rd of all food into dumpsters and shutting off data centers for AI enables all that budget
In the 18th century, we had the technology of 18th century. We did not have photovoltaics, electrical wind and hydro, batteries. We do have them now, and as things stand, renewables are already cheaper than the alternatives.
Energy-wise, we can sustain much, much more people.
And even agriculture can accomodate for more people than we have now. With modern green agricultural technologies improving the efficiency of green farming, as well as wider accomodation of vegetarian diets and alternative protein sources, we can provide food for much more people with much less fossils.
Besides, better logistics and organizational measures can lead to less food perishing before it reaches the consumer, and less of the perfectly good food being thrown away.
Yes, and without the discovery of cubic miles of oil, we wouldn’t have had the energy and power to get to the point we are now.
You are looking only at electrical energy, and we certainly DO NOT have the capacity to keep our little planetary civilization going without fossil fuels.
Think of it like this: Even if you could travel back in time to 1850 with the knowledge of GaNFETs, 30%+ efficient solar panels, and lithium batteries, how would you be able to do anything about it?
How would you mine the enormous amounts of copper and other materials needed with the infrastructure of 1850: wooden carts, horses, and a few steam shovels as advanced and precious as a modern-day aircraft carrier?
How would you feed the people that are now no longer working in the agricultural domain without inputs of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides?
The reason is that knowledge without energy is an abstract idea.
So, yes, short term, all the rich parts of world will be able to pat themselves on the back about solar energy, but as your everyday household appliances degrade, where and how will you get the materials and resources to say, make a new washing machine?
Please don’t tell me you think we got to 8 billion people because of vaccines? Or that we shouldn’t worry and just keep adding endless mouths on this planet?
The thing is, there’s no need to rebuild the world from the 1850s.
We already have the required machinery and energy. We can make use of what we have, even fossil-powered, to speed up the green transition. Our only goal is to keep it going at a growing pace.
As per agriculture, there are sustainable solutions that I addressed in my other response to you. There are green fertilizers, and there are also genetically modified plants able to produce their own pesticides. There are also innovations in logistics and food sharing initiatives to make less food rot without use.
We have the knowledge, we have the energy. What we lack is the political will to shut down those standing in the way for their own gain over our collective future.
bluemoon@piefed.social
on 28 Oct 16:44
nextcollapse
“pay respect to your abusive overlord, serf! you were bred in that pigsty and you would be nothing without it! do not try to change the world for others that would be born in pigstys…”
Except we live in 2025, and we have modern green technology enabling us to do a lot of things differently.
We can get our power from renewables, and newest sodium battery/pumped hydro/thermal storage techniques are brilliant and more eco-friendly than ever.
We now have modern green fabrics, hydrogen steel, etc. etc.
We now have greener agriculture technologies, as well as efficient biogas collection and utilization. You can even make some polymers, like polyethylene, out of that alone!
We have what it takes to reverse course. But following that path means upsetting fossil giants, while also investing heavily into the infractructure. And right now, it is easier for politicians to ignore the passive crowd than it is to ignore their sponsors. We need to tilt that balance.
Long term, 50 years, we are looking at a terminal decline in what humanity will be able to do as a species. Going from kites to Apollo 11 in 50 years, for example, will never, ever happen again. And it wasn’t the guidance computer that got you to the Moon, it was 1000 tons of kerosene in a tube that did it.
You, like many, simply look at electrical power and think everything’s solved.
We certainly can run our affairs on renewable (sun, wind, water, maybe geothermal, tidal) sources, but that society will look nothing at all like ours. Think wooden windmills, not skyscrapers.
Probably for the best too, but the assumptions built-in to the necessary changes simply mean endless strife and pain in the meantime.
What do you mean I can’t have a car? What do you mean I can only travel on a jet 4 times in my entire lifetime? What do you mean we have far fewer citrus fruits in the grocery store in winter? Doesn’t food, like, grow all the time, like in the dirt? What do you mean we need fossil fertilizers and synthetic pesticides and endless machinery and irrigation to get me my smokehouse almonds? What do you mean I have to repair and keep my 10 year old washing machine for 20 more years? What do you mean I have to wear the same clothes? What do you mean I have to live in a box when my parents had a home with a front and backyard?
It’s going to get ugly, and the fact that the richest few, and I don’t mean Elon, I mean you and me chatting on a workday afternoon, have shiny toys means all that much.
Electricity runs the appliances that fossil fuels allow us to build.
Electrical power + water = rocket fuel. You don’t have to use kerosene to launch to space - not that it’s the highest priority anyway.
Why do you equate renewables with primitivism? What exactly stops you from building a skyscraper in a renewable-powered world? We do have green steel, concrete and glass. Besides, most use cases do not require skyscrapers in the first place, and they are seen as undesirable by many urbanists.
Now, yes, switching to sustainable lifestyles is not without compromise here and there, especially on the first stages of green transition. We have to put our effort into this, and there’s no way around this. But with rational organizing, we can end up making something so much better!
Properly developed public transportation minimizes time and comfort losses associated with this mode of commuting, while making streets and air cleaner, freeing up plenty of space for pedestrians and buildings.
Comfortable high-speed rail minimizes the need for planes, enabling high-speed travel without all the airport controls and inconveniences and with plenty of amazing vistas.
Locally sourced seasonal varieties bring back the sense of excitement and allow you to explore so much more than just apples and oranges - there’s a trove of underdeveloped cultivars waiting for their time to shine!
Plenty of said cultivars are not particularly demanding; also, green fertilizers (for example, microbiological ones, alongside good old manure and compost) are available and can be produced at any scale you need without the need for fossils.
Easily repairable (user-repairable wherever possible) tech removes financial and organizational anxieties about breaking your devices. Something broke? Just…take spare parts and an hour, and it’s good as new.
Clothing can always be torn and reassembled in new creative ways! This opens up endless possibilities for creativity, and if you personally don’t like it, I’m pretty sure a local atelier will be happy to help you.
Community is key to urban living! With more interaction between you and your neighbors and the culture of common responsibility over shared resources, you can turn any “box” into a sprawling place people love to live in. We need to combat the individualist culture to make it work, though.
In this age of sustainability, there’s no issue in having a smartphone, or laptop, or whatever you write this on. In fact, right now there are tech brands oriented at sustainability, long-term support, user repairability and more. Fairphone, Framework, you name it!
We can build our tools, appliances and toys in a post-fossil fuel world. And we can make use of the materials we’ve already extracted to make it even greener.
The planet will survive just fine, it has been through worse cataclysmic events, but humans may not be able to keep up with climate change and disappear along with other contemporary species.
The problem is that humanity can be wiped by the actions of a handful of individuals with the connivance of a majority. What you are proposing makes no sense at all.
More food and resources for the conservatives to multiply. Great choice in resigning the once great humanity to corrupt sociopaths 🙄
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 28 Oct 10:28
nextcollapse
You’re right. I will have kids so that children of conservatives don’t just get to run around the wasteland unchallenged but have to fight my kids for food and water. This will make me feel so much better.
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 11:05
nextcollapse
Such a silly argument. Contributing genetics isn’t the only way to influence future generations. I may not be a parent, but I (and many more people) educate others’ children every day.
Just because someone doesn’t bring a kid into the world doesn’t mean they’re giving up on the future. Individualist cultures may have people thinking that nuclear families are the end-all, be-all of child-rearing, but it still “takes a village.”
Let them raise their children in the hellscape they created. Let them explain to their children why things are so awful. I won’t be around nor will my children have to suffer for the choices all those conservatives demanded.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
on 29 Oct 03:06
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YOU fix this shit, dont pass the buck to your children. What a deadbeat parent.
Yep, same. I love my non-existent children too much to bring them into a world which I only really see getting worse in their hypothetical lifetime. Also helps me have a bit more resources to support the little ones of friends and family to hopefully help their lives suck less despite what they were born into.
Only when we can step away from capitalism can we change course. Until then, the system locks everyone in and we’re just tinkering with detail. And that step will be a rough one, but it is necessary.
Modern society is locked into reliance on capitalism systems. Nearly impossible to go off grid completely without insane risk of health and survivability for 99.99% of modern urban people.
Hospital is less important if you starve. We’re dependent on Capitalistic farmers and grocery markets. The farmers are dependent on the seed industries for most mass produced crops with higher yields.
Best hope rn is the solar panels from China that every country from African to Pakistan are able to install and use less fuel
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 10:39
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No, our best hope is that our best scientists learn magic and then rapidly enable wide scale adoption of fusion reactors that are efficient enough to generate free energy that we can use for a bunch of, yet to be invented, sci-fi technologies that deal with the huge pile of shitty challenges that are amassing at our doorstep.
The odds of short to mid term survival of civilization is statistically insignificant.
Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 11:30
nextcollapse
If our scientists learn magic why are they going through all that instead of just casting some spells to alter the atmosphere to optimal parameters for human life? They could even replenish oil wells so we can keep drilling perpetually. Maybe they should cast some spells for agricultural and fresh drinkable water production and such also. If scientists used their magic more efficiently we probably wouldn’t even have this issue to begin with.
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 14:27
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I agree, inefficient magic use in the scientific community is to blame for this predicament.
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 16:53
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We already have solar panels to make free energy, but nah.
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 18:04
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Well neither is “free” energy, but as opposed to solar and existing technologies, cold fusion is claimed to offer energy so abundant that it’s basically free. Solar don’t work on the scale required to solve the problems that climate change bring (carbon capture, water desalination, replacing every critical earth system we’re breaking) AND maintaining the rising power requirements of modernity.
Solar and wind technologies would have been an excellent basis for building a different type of society, where we also vastly reduce our energy consumtion and rethink modern economy. That would be nice, but those discussions are simply off the table at the moment. People want cheeseburgers, Amazon Prime and pickup trucks. No such things in Solar Punk Utopia.
The global co-operation necessary to deal effectively with climate change is actively prevented by [fossil-fuel-powered-]capitalism’s inherent competition.
We are going to evolve through crisis, not pro-active change. Let’s be polite and call climate change a crisis multiplier.
These are the good old days so try and find a way to enjoy them.
the standards wouldn’t have come into fruition that allowed the auto industry to decouple vehicle size and weight from energy efficiency;
the trams systems wouldn’t have been bought up, shut down, and rails ripped from the ground to make room for more lanes;
the energy sector wouldn’t have septupled down on an invisible gas that’s 20x worse than burning coal;
the healthcare companies would be run by medical experts finding the best treatment instead of by money men denying care by default;
the technology we developed wouldn’t be tracking every time we blink to create advertising opportunities;
the houses we build wouldn’t sit vacant waiting for a tenant to pay half their income for the privilege of having no equity…
Greed is the problem.
It’s understandable within capitalism why corporations would push boundaries to make money, but our politicians are supposed to be the force of opposition. Instead they look the other way while pocketing another cheque or airline ticket or deed to a brownstone.
I’m as pro active transportation as anyone I have ever met, but it’s delusional to blame people for buying a large, expensive vehicle when the manufacturers keep discontinuing small, cheap cars because the return on investment isn’t as high. The politicians could require them to make two compact cars for every pickup or SUV, but they don’t because they’re greedy just like the corporations.
There are no checks and balances anymore, and the politicians are to blame. Some blame in certain places should also land on the electorate, to be sure. But with every city, neighbourhood, and street gerrymandered to look like a hand drawn map by Michael J. Fox, it’s mostly the politicians on the hook for all this.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
on 29 Oct 03:01
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Wouldn’t it be nice if we weren’t ruled by psychopathic idiots
UnfairUtan@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 15:14
nextcollapse
Please no
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 16:25
nextcollapse
We already have one country fucking society, the climate, the economy, etc thanks to no regulations. We definitely should also let them obscure the fucking sun
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 28 Oct 17:03
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Country? Are you some sort of socialist? Keep the government out of it. We should pay Elon Musk and Bezos to do it.
Credibly_Human@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 13:56
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No we don’t.
What we really need is people to stop fantasizing about spherical revolutions in frictionless societies and do the boring, unfun, hard things that actually make a difference.
It requires people not doing nothing until magically the perfect thing comes along and realizing they’ll have to wade through and actively support shit, until they’ve successfully reformed or composted said shit into something that is finally able to grow the first leafs of anything resembling a society they want.
I’m just so tired of people rejecting the facts of the political systems they live under in order to pretend to chase some other system they won’t see within their life time.
We have to pick the least bad option and then try to make them better because that’s just the way shit works. Acknowledging that doesn’t mean you are complicit or any other such nonsense in the same way acknowledging climate change doesn’t mean you don’t want a climate that isn’t rapidly deteriorating.
“But if x, y, and z people just…” yeah well they won’t, and we know they won’t, so we have the constraints we have.
Not super directed at you, I’ve just been seeing entirely too many naive, in my opinion, fake socialists that seem to only value socialism as far as they can use it as a weapon to brandish against liberals and other socialists who simply see reality and acknowledge that doing anything requires getting your hands dirty.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
on 28 Oct 16:15
nextcollapse
Taxes and levies to incentivise behavior don’t work. People will eat shit salads before they give up their F150s. We can’t just let people pay to avoid responsibility.
Credibly_Human@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 16:32
nextcollapse
Have you ever considered taxes to pay for collective goods and services, making peoples lives easier, them smarter, building trust in the idea that government can work and giving the government more teeth?
People will eat shit salads before they give up their F150s. We can’t just let people pay to avoid responsibility.
The F150 people were sold on the ridiculous trucks by the automotive industry. Theyre also much smaller as a part of the problem.
The people who make decisions we all feel forced to live with are the ones whose businesses choose the path of least resistance
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Oct 19:36
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F150s are a significant part of the entire emissions of the united states. Cars in general are one of the largest single categories.
Credibly_Human@lemmy.world
on 29 Oct 06:10
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How do you change that though? By beating down the people who have the least damage per person? Or by beating down the companies that push these products, and more importantly the ownership class that owns them and casually use private jets to chauffeur their poodles around?
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Oct 19:35
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Bullshit. Costs absolutely influence shopping behavior. If you drive it out of an affordable range while providing viable, more environmentally friendly, alternatives. People will be forced to change
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 16:23
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We have to pick the least bad option and then try to make them better because that’s just the way shit works
No we don’t, and no it isn’t. That’s how the suppression of radical change works. I am not saying that anything short of utopia is not worth pursuing, just that I don’t see why we shouldn’t start from that and then work down to a realistic compromise, rather than starting from the bad options that are given to us. There are other choices, if you can look further than your nose.
Credibly_Human@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 16:28
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No we don’t, and no it isn’t. That’s how the suppression of radical change works.
You aren’t doing jack shit of this radical change you spout on about. You don’t actually want to help, so you come up with excuses to do nothing while feeling better than those who do because your ideas all start with someone else moving first.
I am not saying that anything short of utopia is not worth pursuing, just that I don’t see why we shouldn’t start from that and then work down to a realistic compromise
Because you don’t have the leverage or organization to start there. Instead you must start by slowly working to put out the fire and getting your fellow countryman to see the benefits of socialist policy.
rather than starting from the bad options that are given to us.
You exist in this system, not outside of it. You start here for that is reality, not fantasy. Id love to start from the position of being the rich using my wealth to sway policy. It’s not reality though.
There are other choices, if you can look further than your nose.
List one that doesn’t start with some fantastical revolution you aren’t organizing and aren’t willing to risk your life in as a first mover
If the answer is about forming a new party in a country that has winner takes all or first past the post, I fear you’ve not thought it through.
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 17:31
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You aren’t doing jack shit of this radical change you spout on about. You don’t actually want to help, so you come up with excuses to do nothing while feeling better than those who do because your ideas all start with someone else moving first.
Uh, source? Do I know you?
Because you don’t have the leverage or organization to start there. Instead you must start by slowly working to put out the fire and getting your fellow countryman to see the benefits of socialist policy.
The leverage is numbers. 8 billion humans against what, a stadium of people? And the organization at this point is just basic survival instinct?? We’re on a burning planet and being told that yes we need change, but we also need to wageslave while doing it. I do agree on the “teaching” part btw.
You exist in this system, not outside of it. You start here for that is reality, not fantasy. Id love to start from the position of being the rich using my wealth to sway policy. It’s not reality though.
The system is something that monkeys invented. I “exist in it” in the sense in the sense that I am contemporary to it, yes. I exist in what you could call the universe, nature, or reality.
List one that doesn’t start with some fantastical revolution you aren’t organizing and aren’t willing to risk your life in as a first mover
Nice try glowie. I just know what has already happened in the past and can try to extrapolate. And again, I don’t know what basis you have to speak of my character.
If the answer is about forming a new party in a country that has winner takes all or first past the post, I fear you’ve not thought it through.
Jesus christ, is that the most radical, outside-of-the system take you could think of for global policy change?
Credibly_Human@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 18:25
nextcollapse
Uh, source? Do I know you?
You don’t. That’s why its up to you to make your point when making statements like this.
I’ve seen no such actions so without any particular claims, this is just fantasy posting.
The leverage is numbers.
I literally address the fact that you don’t have said leverage and wont get it any time soon in the very thing that you quote.
No one is being convinced by your angsty, snarky, online leftist purity raging.
And the organization at this point is just basic survival instinct?
If you think basic survival instincts are in any way conducive to long term goals… I don’t even have a clever retort. That’s just an insane thing to think.
We’re on a burning planet and being told that yes we need change, but we also need to wageslave while doing it.
You aren’t told, thats the reality.
People stop doing their jobs, without tremendous planning ahead, and they die.
That’s reality.
You are nowhere near having the capacity for a general strike, and you’re losing capacity as the tech feudal lords clamp down on the means of communication, and as people on decentralized platforms are notoriously completely impossible to deal with and hyper idealistic.
Nice try glowie.
See, it’s childish bullshit like this which means we can’t make progress.
My point is clearly that nothing remotely like these fantastical ideas of an underground revolution are actually happening. We’ve seen these grumblings online for fucking decades.
You’d think you’d have literally anything, like non personally, to show for it. Instead its nothing but talk.
Some random not hyper online dude shooting a healthcare ceo in the back because his back hurt and he was hard done by them is the closest you’ve come to that, and it wasn’t you.
I just know what has already happened in the past and can try to extrapolate.
You are remembering selectively, and remembering out of context, because the US is not WW2 germany. They’re WW2 germany with nukes and a military multiples of times more formidable than the next multiple combined.
There is no coalition of countries currently equipped to take them on.
More than that, those countries are all having similar problems with right wing groups flaring up.
More than that still, in recent history, when there have been revolts, they haven’t switched to socialism, or even just more socialism than before in notable ways. They’ve mostly just switched to more capitalism, supported by the US.
And again, I don’t know what basis you have to speak of my character.
Because once again, the online fringe you represent simply has no track record to speak of. They simply have not done anything for decades, and if they had any teeth, there would be something, anything to show for it.
Jesus christ, is that the most radical, outside-of-the system take you could think of for global policy change?
No, it isn’t the previous thing you absolutely do not have the guts or organization for is. This is the accomplishable thing that would not accomplish the final goals and instead would be handing right wing fascists the long term victory on a silver platter.
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Oct 19:34
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The leverage is numbers. 8 billion humans against what, a stadium of people?
The idea that 8 billion people would be on your side is the forefront of showing why what you’re suggesting is closer to fantasy than reality. More people than you care to admit are straight up fascist
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 19:39
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It is not a “my side” thing. I do believe that 8 billion humans have tackling climate change in their best interest, whether they know it or not.
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Oct 20:08
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Of course they do. But what’s in their best interest doesn’t matter for leverage. For leverage, it matters how many truly believe that. And you’ll find that the amount of people who truly understand how bad it’s getting is vanishingly small. Even most liberals and hell, even leftists only care about it on a surface level. They’re not willing to lose the benefits they get from not caring about the environment.
DupaCycki@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 12:21
nextcollapse
Haven’t we missed it like 10 years ago?
Mediocre_Bard@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 13:13
nextcollapse
Ah, good point. Let’s see if we unmiss it in 2035.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works
on 28 Oct 14:52
nextcollapse
At this point it’s a matter of how bad.
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 15:15
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Yes, but let’s not forget that 1,5 degrees C was considered really bad to begin with.
TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Oct 14:59
nextcollapse
The target of staying under 1,5 degrees Celsius above the pre-industrial average temperature within the century was set less than 10 years ago. It was considered ambitious but possible back then, and so many world leaders and governments agreeing to it in the Paris climate accord of 2015, was considered a major political achievement.
However, there have been uncountable political setbacks since. Aside from Donald Trump’s two election wins and subsequent horror shows, we’ve gone through a pandemic that brought insane financial, monetary politics and crushing inflation, the Ukraine war and the advent of power hungry AI (that totally will be good for something and ain’t no god dammed bubble, seriously stop calling it a bubble, bro, it’s the future). All of which has reduced climate change to a niche topic that don’t hold any sway over political elections in the rich countries responsible for the brunt of greenhouse gas emissions (directly or indirectly).
Less than 10 years ago we thought it would be possible to stay below that target over the coming 85 years. Less than 10 years later that target is declared dead by the secretary general of the UN… Was it realistic then? Well, a lot of planning and climate policy has involved exceeding 1,5 degrees and then using massive deployments of imaginary future technologies to bring the climate back. Not exactly prudent reasoning.
Some countries are still sticking to their plans, kinda. Norway are making headways installing carbon capture technology on their off-shore oil rigs (!!!) so that they can keep drilling for fossil fuels with a smaller impact on their own reported national emissions.
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 16:49
collapse
Not taking away from your larger point but mostly not inflation but profit taking. Early in COVID corporations holding functional monopolies learned demand was inelastic and commenced to price gouge.
That depends on how you define world. I would include all life on the planet to be part of the world. We are actively killing biodiversity, wiping species from the earth, all from our direct negative contributions to the world.
So yea, the planet and life overall will find a way, but not all life that happened to live in the same era (and after) as humans
bluemoon@piefed.social
on 28 Oct 16:23
nextcollapse
billions of years for microorganisms and lifeforms to make the big volcanic rock with acidic oceans turn pleasant and habitable. next civiliation occurs closer to the implosion of the sun and has material like plastic in theie periodic table…
foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev
on 28 Oct 18:55
collapse
nope, even all plastic particles will have been cracked down at the point where they come up with funny diagrams.
Washedupcynic@lemmy.ca
on 28 Oct 15:50
nextcollapse
Over the course of the history of the planet, there have been several extinction events, and then over time, new life evolves from what remains creating new biodiversity. The only difference is that the mass extinction is being caused by an apex predator, (humans,) instead of a meteor, or volcano. The earth will incorporate plastic into the new ecology. It’s already happening. We will go extinct by making the planet incompatible with human life; other life will exist and thrive.
davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 16:21
nextcollapse
we would not be the first organisms to create harsh conditions.
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 16:43
nextcollapse
Dang ol’ photosynthesizers man that gad dum oxygen I tell you what
Despite being human beings, we are still living organisms that evolved. Our species evolved intelligence which led to agriculture, industry, the industrial revolution, and our current ecological shitshow. In theory, we possess the intelligence to change course and attempt to fix things, but our collective greed and hubris will ensure that the capitalists end up ruling over a pile of smoldering ash from their bunkers. I’m not trying to downplay how badly we as a species have fucked up or how much damage we have done, just that evolution will continue despite us, even though we are the ones that pushed things in a certain direction.
Your apathy and mental phlegm makes me furious. We don’t “go extinct”, billions and billions of sentient beings will suffer greatly for centuries to come because of it. More so with every bit of warming we are adding or preventing. It’s far from over, this is barely beginning. So stop this doomer bullshit and take responsibility for your life and your actions.
answersplease77@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 18:03
nextcollapse
Oh, the UN. The international united-circus organization that no country gives a fuck about its laws or abide its rullings because the US government, represented by its pyscopathic oligarchs and paid politicians, can veeto shit on anything they want as long as more data centers, more fossil-fuelled wars, larger militry budget, … make them a little richer.
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Oct 18:47
collapse
The UN is a circus organization with no power by design. Because it’s primary purpose is a keeping every country at the table no matter what for diplomacy, to reduce the odds of another world war
Reginald_T_Biter@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 18:54
collapse
Always makes me laugh reading stuff like the comment you replied to. The UN isn’t a stick to beat countries with, it’s primarily a round table to get otherwise-adversaries to talk.
The good news is that it is still something we can deal with. I mean, to just give up is to let the current “owners of the world win” ( billionaires and gang).
The way that I see it, they won’t stop by themselves. We either get politicians to finally stop them (highly doubtful) or the world citizens stop them by force.
I mean honestly a fundamental restructuring of democracy in the US. We need a 3rd party in the US that can hijack the Democratic party apparatus without falling victim to its trappings in order to crack the first-past-the-post system; without that, capital has the oppressive power of the top 5 most funded militaries in human history. The US squats on any country that even thinks of not playing nicely with capital, and without that there can be no resistance to climate change.
Beyond that, you really just need to prepare. Blah blah, mutual aid, community defense, etc. I’m not gonna bore you with what you know, just reiterate that it WILL help when shit hits the fan. I guarantee you when your kids are getting conscripted into the water wars, you’re gonna want to have enough community presence to push back.
Those Paris climate accords were literally useless, as it was nothing more but a kind suggestion.
Even when we would have made hard contracts we know that half the countries out there would have failed for a variety of reasons (most of them being a variety of “ah but I want to be re-elected and if I try to save the world, things will be slightly harder for my base, so I sign for yes, and then do no”)
This was just a “well let’s give it a try” and the US immediately borked out with Trump because now it’s cool to have mentally deficient adults controlling countries.
Nobody with a brain ever believed that we’d his that 1.5 degree limit. Ik actually fairly confident that we’ll get a two degree limit, which we’ll crash right through, then we’ll start producing CO2 harder and faster than ever before just to be sure we can take straight through the 3 and 4 degree limits that we’ll set because politicians don’t give a fuck about any of this, they only care about their reelection and the populace of countries that matter either can’t do anything about it (hello China, how is Winnie today?) or just too fucking dumb to even understand the issue (hello USA, how is the Cheeto today?)
I honestly believe that we’re in humanities end-times. Not the biblical ones, those were fairytales, but the real one that humanity made for itself. There is no one to blame but us. I think GenX will live to see how humanity dies out, because nobody will fix this obvious problem with obvious solutions, everyone who matters can only think about themselves so enjoy the days that we have left, all.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 20:21
nextcollapse
Dumb ways to die, so many dumb ways to die.
redwattlebird@lemmings.world
on 28 Oct 21:01
nextcollapse
Money buys power and influence and politicians react more to that than their own constituents. When money can bend reality and get people to vote against their own interests just to keep the status quo, there’ll be no change.
I mean, for all the things we do right we get stuff like the Bezos wedding where everyone arrives via private jet or COP25 where everyone also arrives by private jet to discuss the climate.
We have Greta Thunberg who addressed the world leaders and voiced our discontent at their lack of action. Her views are not unique and are a reflection of many but yet, despite laying the truth bare and shaming leaders for their inaction, power and influence labels her as whatever they want to discredit her words and influence.
So, if we want to reverse things and change, we need to target the rich and tax them, shame them, eat them… Whatever it takes and only then will we be able to do something net positive. Doing ‘our part’ is not enough when the top 1% literally offsets all of our efforts everyday.
hotdogcharmer@lemmy.zip
on 28 Oct 21:28
nextcollapse
It just seems crazy. Normal, sane, hardworking people of the world are begging for governments and corporations to stop killing us through pollution, but the rich don’t give a fuck. There won’t be consequences for them. There won’t be a reckoning. It just feels like they’ll stubbornly punish all of us for not being born wealthy like they were.
This is where I envy religious people: I would love to believe that proper justice will be served eventually. But I can’t, I have to watch the injustices and cannot do anything about it.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
on 29 Oct 04:07
collapse
And the corpos and govs cry incessantly about not being given new victims to exploit and discard. The entitlement is disgusting.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 21:30
nextcollapse
Gonna need to get those Coke-drinking polar bears a fridge…
bitjunkie@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 21:33
nextcollapse
It’s over. Even if every single person and corporation did an about-face on this right now, inertia alone would carry us into the consequences this was intended to avoid. Enjoy it while it lasts.
If everyone got together and came to the decision to fix the planet, it would probably still be possible, even though it’ll likely get to a point where going outside is a complication. Generations, to be sure.
Though of course, we’re never all going to agree on how to go about it, so you might be right.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 21:44
nextcollapse
We all know we are fucked. I am living in the moment till it all ends and never having children. Humanity will destroy this planet long before it changes course.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 21:58
nextcollapse
Covid convinced me we’re done.
We couldn’t even get people to wear a fucking mask to protect themselves from a disease they saw killing their neighbors. Shit - we can’t get them to allow other people to wear a mask.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
on 29 Oct 00:35
nextcollapse
The part that absolutely kills me about this is that there were anti-maskers during the 1918 “spanish flu” pandemic. This suggest that with two valid examples that this is a bad idea, people still chose to not do it. It also suggests that we’re still the same society that we were 100 years ago.
We’re still the same society we were 500 years ago, just with technology.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
on 29 Oct 04:01
collapse
COVID (or more specifically, the response to it) was the turning point for me as well. The realization that we would not work together to manage a crisis.
If people won’t do the easy shit, they sure as hell won’t do the more difficult things that are needed to address climate collapse.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
on 29 Oct 02:43
collapse
Planet will be fine. Humanity and many other lifeforms? Not so much.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world
on 29 Oct 03:54
collapse
Mass extinction event is all ready happening so yeah
DegenerationIP@lemmy.world
on 28 Oct 22:22
nextcollapse
The next topic under this Post is that Texas sues Tylenol because of autism claims.
We’re fucking doomed. Thats what I personally think and I really Wish and Hope that I’m wrong.
threaded - newest
there are people who literally believe in magic and avoid guilt in all capacities in favor for an afterlife free of repercussions
stop the proliferation of ideologies that support fairytale images of uniqueness and pursuit of boundless wealth, they lead to the most ugly behavior towards all other animals including other humans
Of course we did bro, AI (or at least, the current use of the term) is here and no multinational conglomerate gives a fuck about the environment any more
Oh how I wish it really was.
It’s not even about AI. It’s just the next growth bubble to milk, there will be the next after.
It never stops.
Yeah they’re changing course… To go upwards even faster. 🤦♂️
I’ve always liked Antonio Gutteres. While a politician, he has been the most honest of them when it comes to climate change.
eh, covering up Covid for China for a solid 6 months wasn’t great.
Our kids will be really ashamed of us.
Short term profits are way more important than the future of our kids I guess.
I’m already ashamed of us. I have a hard time walking the fine line between preparing my children for a difficult future and raising kids who know happiness.
I just chose to never have kids because there was never any possibility that humanity would overcome our narcissistic greed prior to ecological collapse.
That was 20 years ago. The last decade has only solidified the certainty of collapse in my mind.
Humanity is conducting a reckless unplanned terraform of the only place that can sustain us within lightyears, at the very least, and have killed off 70% of the macroscopic biomass in less than a human lifetime, but not to fear… Some nonce cunt on the Internet called you a doomer!
I’m sure billions of mentally-ill talking chimps doing whatever they believe benefits them personally will all magically sort itself out before we destroy enough of the natural processes we depend on.
The planet will survive. And there is even a chance that some remnant of humanity might as well - deservedly or no. It is mainly modern society that is done for, and I do not morn its loss.
I mourn the loss of all the flora and fauna we’ll be taking down with us
I mean yeah - but I do so less for their sake and more for the reason that we should have been responsible and not actively have caused that, you know? imho at least.
There have been mass extinction events many times on earth before, and there probably will be several more times yet again, until the sun dies out or perhaps the planet does prior to that. Perhaps humans will even be around to see the next one(s) too, if we happen to survive this one. That will not negate our responsibility here, but could be true regardless.
We can only control what is within our capability to control. i.e. we need to do the right thing - e.g. reduce our impact - but the actual result of our actions is beyond our control hence I choose not to “worry” about that part of the situation.
Stoicism.
I like you.
Ok denier.
As a parent: happiness is about expectations. The exhuberance of youth can carry them as long as we aren’t preparing them for the halcyon, easy days of the 1990s. Life will be hard, it always has been, but there can still be fun and rewarding experiences. They need to know resilience, independence, and be quick on their feet both mentally and physically.
America voted for a child rapist, no one postering actually cares about kids
it seemed like my kids probably wouldn’t have a good future, so i didn’t have any
Based
Even if it wasn’t already too late, the oligarchs profiting from the demise of the planet are in full control of information sources and politicians worldwide. The only way the planet survives is if humanity is wiped out through a global incurable plague at this point.
We have nobody but ourselves to blame for the reckoning that is coming after decades of voting against our own interests and choosing convenience of fossil fuels over the environment.
It’s no use going for collective blame and doomerism.
“We have nobody but ourselves to blame…” yeah, except that guy over there burning coal and guzzling fuel like there’s no tomorrow. “The only way is to wipe humanity” …or do something about it for once.
As long as we’re here, no matter how bad it is, we have to step against it in the ways we can. It’s not us who makes it so. We don’t want that. And it’s essential to make it a very clear and loud statement one can not turn away from.
Look up your local climate activist groups. See what can be done. Participate in protests. Do it.
Honestly, I think we could have done with a lot more doomerism. thisisfine.jpg-ism is the biggest reason why a political solution is impossible.
You mean the thing that allowed us to reach 8 billion and growing? There’s no way you’re getting from the 19th century to today without fossil fuels. You are here because of them. It’s got nothing to do with “that guy” over there.
Unless you are in a log cabin you hewed yourself by hand, raise chickens with no feedstock that came from fossil-fuel powered agriculture, wear nothing but natural fibers and leather you tanned yourself with oak tannins, etc
That’s a great response for the 1970s but since then we’ve been developing awareness of the magnitude of the crisis and developing solutions. It’s been time to move on from the nineteenth century
We all should have been making better choices for half a century now. If you’re not at least making better choices today, you can’t blame lack of knowledge or lack of technology
You forget to mention the flipside: we can’t sustain 8, let alone 10, billion with sustainable energy. The carrying capacity of the planet with sustainable energy is called the 18th century.
Sure, we can do it, who is ready for the consequences?
literaly ceasing to throw 1/3rd of all food into dumpsters and shutting off data centers for AI enables all that budget
In the 18th century, we had the technology of 18th century. We did not have photovoltaics, electrical wind and hydro, batteries. We do have them now, and as things stand, renewables are already cheaper than the alternatives.
Energy-wise, we can sustain much, much more people.
And even agriculture can accomodate for more people than we have now. With modern green agricultural technologies improving the efficiency of green farming, as well as wider accomodation of vegetarian diets and alternative protein sources, we can provide food for much more people with much less fossils.
Besides, better logistics and organizational measures can lead to less food perishing before it reaches the consumer, and less of the perfectly good food being thrown away.
Yes, and without the discovery of cubic miles of oil, we wouldn’t have had the energy and power to get to the point we are now.
You are looking only at electrical energy, and we certainly DO NOT have the capacity to keep our little planetary civilization going without fossil fuels.
Think of it like this: Even if you could travel back in time to 1850 with the knowledge of GaNFETs, 30%+ efficient solar panels, and lithium batteries, how would you be able to do anything about it?
How would you mine the enormous amounts of copper and other materials needed with the infrastructure of 1850: wooden carts, horses, and a few steam shovels as advanced and precious as a modern-day aircraft carrier?
How would you feed the people that are now no longer working in the agricultural domain without inputs of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides?
The reason is that knowledge without energy is an abstract idea.
So, yes, short term, all the rich parts of world will be able to pat themselves on the back about solar energy, but as your everyday household appliances degrade, where and how will you get the materials and resources to say, make a new washing machine?
Please don’t tell me you think we got to 8 billion people because of vaccines? Or that we shouldn’t worry and just keep adding endless mouths on this planet?
The thing is, there’s no need to rebuild the world from the 1850s.
We already have the required machinery and energy. We can make use of what we have, even fossil-powered, to speed up the green transition. Our only goal is to keep it going at a growing pace.
As per agriculture, there are sustainable solutions that I addressed in my other response to you. There are green fertilizers, and there are also genetically modified plants able to produce their own pesticides. There are also innovations in logistics and food sharing initiatives to make less food rot without use.
We have the knowledge, we have the energy. What we lack is the political will to shut down those standing in the way for their own gain over our collective future.
“pay respect to your abusive overlord, serf! you were bred in that pigsty and you would be nothing without it! do not try to change the world for others that would be born in pigstys…”
Except we live in 2025, and we have modern green technology enabling us to do a lot of things differently.
We can get our power from renewables, and newest sodium battery/pumped hydro/thermal storage techniques are brilliant and more eco-friendly than ever. We now have modern green fabrics, hydrogen steel, etc. etc. We now have greener agriculture technologies, as well as efficient biogas collection and utilization. You can even make some polymers, like polyethylene, out of that alone!
We have what it takes to reverse course. But following that path means upsetting fossil giants, while also investing heavily into the infractructure. And right now, it is easier for politicians to ignore the passive crowd than it is to ignore their sponsors. We need to tilt that balance.
Technology without energy is a sculpture.
Long term, 50 years, we are looking at a terminal decline in what humanity will be able to do as a species. Going from kites to Apollo 11 in 50 years, for example, will never, ever happen again. And it wasn’t the guidance computer that got you to the Moon, it was 1000 tons of kerosene in a tube that did it.
You, like many, simply look at electrical power and think everything’s solved.
We certainly can run our affairs on renewable (sun, wind, water, maybe geothermal, tidal) sources, but that society will look nothing at all like ours. Think wooden windmills, not skyscrapers.
Probably for the best too, but the assumptions built-in to the necessary changes simply mean endless strife and pain in the meantime.
What do you mean I can’t have a car? What do you mean I can only travel on a jet 4 times in my entire lifetime? What do you mean we have far fewer citrus fruits in the grocery store in winter? Doesn’t food, like, grow all the time, like in the dirt? What do you mean we need fossil fertilizers and synthetic pesticides and endless machinery and irrigation to get me my smokehouse almonds? What do you mean I have to repair and keep my 10 year old washing machine for 20 more years? What do you mean I have to wear the same clothes? What do you mean I have to live in a box when my parents had a home with a front and backyard?
It’s going to get ugly, and the fact that the richest few, and I don’t mean Elon, I mean you and me chatting on a workday afternoon, have shiny toys means all that much.
Electricity runs the appliances that fossil fuels allow us to build.
Electrical power + water = rocket fuel. You don’t have to use kerosene to launch to space - not that it’s the highest priority anyway.
Why do you equate renewables with primitivism? What exactly stops you from building a skyscraper in a renewable-powered world? We do have green steel, concrete and glass. Besides, most use cases do not require skyscrapers in the first place, and they are seen as undesirable by many urbanists.
Now, yes, switching to sustainable lifestyles is not without compromise here and there, especially on the first stages of green transition. We have to put our effort into this, and there’s no way around this. But with rational organizing, we can end up making something so much better!
In this age of sustainability, there’s no issue in having a smartphone, or laptop, or whatever you write this on. In fact, right now there are tech brands oriented at sustainability, long-term support, user repairability and more. Fairphone, Framework, you name it!
We can build our tools, appliances and toys in a post-fossil fuel world. And we can make use of the materials we’ve already extracted to make it even greener.
The planet will survive just fine, it has been through worse cataclysmic events, but humans may not be able to keep up with climate change and disappear along with other contemporary species.
The problem is that humanity can be wiped by the actions of a handful of individuals with the connivance of a majority. What you are proposing makes no sense at all.
Finally something cheerful.
Gail Berman is to blame. She cancelled Firefly and doomed humanity in the process.
I’ve really been feeling vindicated for my choice not to have children lately
More food and resources for the conservatives to multiply. Great choice in resigning the once great humanity to corrupt sociopaths 🙄
You’re right. I will have kids so that children of conservatives don’t just get to run around the wasteland unchallenged but have to fight my kids for food and water. This will make me feel so much better.
Such a silly argument. Contributing genetics isn’t the only way to influence future generations. I may not be a parent, but I (and many more people) educate others’ children every day.
Just because someone doesn’t bring a kid into the world doesn’t mean they’re giving up on the future. Individualist cultures may have people thinking that nuclear families are the end-all, be-all of child-rearing, but it still “takes a village.”
Let them raise their children in the hellscape they created. Let them explain to their children why things are so awful. I won’t be around nor will my children have to suffer for the choices all those conservatives demanded.
YOU fix this shit, dont pass the buck to your children. What a deadbeat parent.
Yep, same. I love my non-existent children too much to bring them into a world which I only really see getting worse in their hypothetical lifetime. Also helps me have a bit more resources to support the little ones of friends and family to hopefully help their lives suck less despite what they were born into.
Only when we can step away from capitalism can we change course. Until then, the system locks everyone in and we’re just tinkering with detail. And that step will be a rough one, but it is necessary.
Modern society is locked into reliance on capitalism systems. Nearly impossible to go off grid completely without insane risk of health and survivability for 99.99% of modern urban people.
Funny how I don’t remember the last hospital I saw in the middle of a corn field.
Hospital is less important if you starve. We’re dependent on Capitalistic farmers and grocery markets. The farmers are dependent on the seed industries for most mass produced crops with higher yields.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we weren’t ruled by psychopathic idiots, and this might have actually made a difference?
Best hope rn is the solar panels from China that every country from African to Pakistan are able to install and use less fuel
No, our best hope is that our best scientists learn magic and then rapidly enable wide scale adoption of fusion reactors that are efficient enough to generate free energy that we can use for a bunch of, yet to be invented, sci-fi technologies that deal with the huge pile of shitty challenges that are amassing at our doorstep.
The odds of short to mid term survival of civilization is statistically insignificant.
If our scientists learn magic why are they going through all that instead of just casting some spells to alter the atmosphere to optimal parameters for human life? They could even replenish oil wells so we can keep drilling perpetually. Maybe they should cast some spells for agricultural and fresh drinkable water production and such also. If scientists used their magic more efficiently we probably wouldn’t even have this issue to begin with.
I agree, inefficient magic use in the scientific community is to blame for this predicament.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5ddb441f-7ceb-4fb7-ba98-31aa193883ea.gif">
No, our best hope is aliens to come and fix it
Yeah, sure, about equal likelihood, to be fair
We already have solar panels to make free energy, but nah.
Well neither is “free” energy, but as opposed to solar and existing technologies, cold fusion is claimed to offer energy so abundant that it’s basically free. Solar don’t work on the scale required to solve the problems that climate change bring (carbon capture, water desalination, replacing every critical earth system we’re breaking) AND maintaining the rising power requirements of modernity.
Solar and wind technologies would have been an excellent basis for building a different type of society, where we also vastly reduce our energy consumtion and rethink modern economy. That would be nice, but those discussions are simply off the table at the moment. People want cheeseburgers, Amazon Prime and pickup trucks. No such things in Solar Punk Utopia.
Exactly. I wager we’re headed toward more of a steampunk dystopia, where the last remnants of civilization choke on our own detritus.
The global co-operation necessary to deal effectively with climate change is actively prevented by [fossil-fuel-powered-]capitalism’s inherent competition.
We are going to evolve through crisis, not pro-active change. Let’s be polite and call climate change a crisis multiplier.
These are the good old days so try and find a way to enjoy them.
It could only effectively work with a world government.
Sure blame politicians for the fact that people are going into deeper and deeper debt to buy bigger and bigger trucks.
If the politicians would have refused bribes,
the standards wouldn’t have come into fruition that allowed the auto industry to decouple vehicle size and weight from energy efficiency;
the trams systems wouldn’t have been bought up, shut down, and rails ripped from the ground to make room for more lanes;
the energy sector wouldn’t have septupled down on an invisible gas that’s 20x worse than burning coal;
the healthcare companies would be run by medical experts finding the best treatment instead of by money men denying care by default;
the technology we developed wouldn’t be tracking every time we blink to create advertising opportunities;
the houses we build wouldn’t sit vacant waiting for a tenant to pay half their income for the privilege of having no equity…
Greed is the problem.
It’s understandable within capitalism why corporations would push boundaries to make money, but our politicians are supposed to be the force of opposition. Instead they look the other way while pocketing another cheque or airline ticket or deed to a brownstone.
I’m as pro active transportation as anyone I have ever met, but it’s delusional to blame people for buying a large, expensive vehicle when the manufacturers keep discontinuing small, cheap cars because the return on investment isn’t as high. The politicians could require them to make two compact cars for every pickup or SUV, but they don’t because they’re greedy just like the corporations.
There are no checks and balances anymore, and the politicians are to blame. Some blame in certain places should also land on the electorate, to be sure. But with every city, neighbourhood, and street gerrymandered to look like a hand drawn map by Michael J. Fox, it’s mostly the politicians on the hook for all this.
HumanHistory_IRL
Time to come up with a new target we can miss.
Fuck it, start geoengineering. Snowpiercer actually looked kind of fun.
Time to perfect the cockroach blend recipe
Please no
We already have one country fucking society, the climate, the economy, etc thanks to no regulations. We definitely should also let them obscure the fucking sun
Country? Are you some sort of socialist? Keep the government out of it. We should pay Elon Musk and Bezos to do it.
Tell that to Captain America.
Have more kids! Have pets! Don’t worry, we’ll just all move to Mars!
World is too busy deciding whether to kill minorities or tax the rich an extra few percent to make any progress on this.
We desperately need a socialist revolution.
No we don’t.
What we really need is people to stop fantasizing about spherical revolutions in frictionless societies and do the boring, unfun, hard things that actually make a difference.
It requires people not doing nothing until magically the perfect thing comes along and realizing they’ll have to wade through and actively support shit, until they’ve successfully reformed or composted said shit into something that is finally able to grow the first leafs of anything resembling a society they want.
I’m just so tired of people rejecting the facts of the political systems they live under in order to pretend to chase some other system they won’t see within their life time.
We have to pick the least bad option and then try to make them better because that’s just the way shit works. Acknowledging that doesn’t mean you are complicit or any other such nonsense in the same way acknowledging climate change doesn’t mean you don’t want a climate that isn’t rapidly deteriorating.
“But if x, y, and z people just…” yeah well they won’t, and we know they won’t, so we have the constraints we have.
Not super directed at you, I’ve just been seeing entirely too many naive, in my opinion, fake socialists that seem to only value socialism as far as they can use it as a weapon to brandish against liberals and other socialists who simply see reality and acknowledge that doing anything requires getting your hands dirty.
Taxes and levies to incentivise behavior don’t work. People will eat shit salads before they give up their F150s. We can’t just let people pay to avoid responsibility.
Have you ever considered taxes to pay for collective goods and services, making peoples lives easier, them smarter, building trust in the idea that government can work and giving the government more teeth?
The F150 people were sold on the ridiculous trucks by the automotive industry. Theyre also much smaller as a part of the problem.
The people who make decisions we all feel forced to live with are the ones whose businesses choose the path of least resistance
F150s are a significant part of the entire emissions of the united states. Cars in general are one of the largest single categories.
How do you change that though? By beating down the people who have the least damage per person? Or by beating down the companies that push these products, and more importantly the ownership class that owns them and casually use private jets to chauffeur their poodles around?
Bullshit. Costs absolutely influence shopping behavior. If you drive it out of an affordable range while providing viable, more environmentally friendly, alternatives. People will be forced to change
No we don’t, and no it isn’t. That’s how the suppression of radical change works. I am not saying that anything short of utopia is not worth pursuing, just that I don’t see why we shouldn’t start from that and then work down to a realistic compromise, rather than starting from the bad options that are given to us. There are other choices, if you can look further than your nose.
You aren’t doing jack shit of this radical change you spout on about. You don’t actually want to help, so you come up with excuses to do nothing while feeling better than those who do because your ideas all start with someone else moving first.
Because you don’t have the leverage or organization to start there. Instead you must start by slowly working to put out the fire and getting your fellow countryman to see the benefits of socialist policy.
You exist in this system, not outside of it. You start here for that is reality, not fantasy. Id love to start from the position of being the rich using my wealth to sway policy. It’s not reality though.
List one that doesn’t start with some fantastical revolution you aren’t organizing and aren’t willing to risk your life in as a first mover
If the answer is about forming a new party in a country that has winner takes all or first past the post, I fear you’ve not thought it through.
Uh, source? Do I know you?
The leverage is numbers. 8 billion humans against what, a stadium of people? And the organization at this point is just basic survival instinct?? We’re on a burning planet and being told that yes we need change, but we also need to wageslave while doing it. I do agree on the “teaching” part btw.
The system is something that monkeys invented. I “exist in it” in the sense in the sense that I am contemporary to it, yes. I exist in what you could call the universe, nature, or reality.
Nice try glowie. I just know what has already happened in the past and can try to extrapolate. And again, I don’t know what basis you have to speak of my character.
Jesus christ, is that the most radical, outside-of-the system take you could think of for global policy change?
You don’t. That’s why its up to you to make your point when making statements like this.
I’ve seen no such actions so without any particular claims, this is just fantasy posting.
I literally address the fact that you don’t have said leverage and wont get it any time soon in the very thing that you quote.
No one is being convinced by your angsty, snarky, online leftist purity raging.
If you think basic survival instincts are in any way conducive to long term goals… I don’t even have a clever retort. That’s just an insane thing to think.
You aren’t told, thats the reality.
People stop doing their jobs, without tremendous planning ahead, and they die.
That’s reality.
You are nowhere near having the capacity for a general strike, and you’re losing capacity as the tech feudal lords clamp down on the means of communication, and as people on decentralized platforms are notoriously completely impossible to deal with and hyper idealistic.
See, it’s childish bullshit like this which means we can’t make progress.
My point is clearly that nothing remotely like these fantastical ideas of an underground revolution are actually happening. We’ve seen these grumblings online for fucking decades.
You’d think you’d have literally anything, like non personally, to show for it. Instead its nothing but talk.
Some random not hyper online dude shooting a healthcare ceo in the back because his back hurt and he was hard done by them is the closest you’ve come to that, and it wasn’t you.
You are remembering selectively, and remembering out of context, because the US is not WW2 germany. They’re WW2 germany with nukes and a military multiples of times more formidable than the next multiple combined.
There is no coalition of countries currently equipped to take them on.
More than that, those countries are all having similar problems with right wing groups flaring up.
More than that still, in recent history, when there have been revolts, they haven’t switched to socialism, or even just more socialism than before in notable ways. They’ve mostly just switched to more capitalism, supported by the US.
Because once again, the online fringe you represent simply has no track record to speak of. They simply have not done anything for decades, and if they had any teeth, there would be something, anything to show for it.
No, it isn’t the previous thing you absolutely do not have the guts or organization for is. This is the accomplishable thing that would not accomplish the final goals and instead would be handing right wing fascists the long term victory on a silver platter.
The idea that 8 billion people would be on your side is the forefront of showing why what you’re suggesting is closer to fantasy than reality. More people than you care to admit are straight up fascist
It is not a “my side” thing. I do believe that 8 billion humans have tackling climate change in their best interest, whether they know it or not.
Of course they do. But what’s in their best interest doesn’t matter for leverage. For leverage, it matters how many truly believe that. And you’ll find that the amount of people who truly understand how bad it’s getting is vanishingly small. Even most liberals and hell, even leftists only care about it on a surface level. They’re not willing to lose the benefits they get from not caring about the environment.
Haven’t we missed it like 10 years ago?
Yes, but we’re still missing now too.
Ah, good point. Let’s see if we unmiss it in 2035.
At this point it’s a matter of how bad.
Yes, but let’s not forget that 1,5 degrees C was considered really bad to begin with.
The target of staying under 1,5 degrees Celsius above the pre-industrial average temperature within the century was set less than 10 years ago. It was considered ambitious but possible back then, and so many world leaders and governments agreeing to it in the Paris climate accord of 2015, was considered a major political achievement.
However, there have been uncountable political setbacks since. Aside from Donald Trump’s two election wins and subsequent horror shows, we’ve gone through a pandemic that brought insane financial, monetary politics and crushing inflation, the Ukraine war and the advent of power hungry AI (that totally will be good for something and ain’t no god dammed bubble, seriously stop calling it a bubble, bro, it’s the future). All of which has reduced climate change to a niche topic that don’t hold any sway over political elections in the rich countries responsible for the brunt of greenhouse gas emissions (directly or indirectly).
Less than 10 years ago we thought it would be possible to stay below that target over the coming 85 years. Less than 10 years later that target is declared dead by the secretary general of the UN… Was it realistic then? Well, a lot of planning and climate policy has involved exceeding 1,5 degrees and then using massive deployments of imaginary future technologies to bring the climate back. Not exactly prudent reasoning.
Some countries are still sticking to their plans, kinda. Norway are making headways installing carbon capture technology on their off-shore oil rigs (!!!) so that they can keep drilling for fossil fuels with a smaller impact on their own reported national emissions.
Not taking away from your larger point but mostly not inflation but profit taking. Early in COVID corporations holding functional monopolies learned demand was inelastic and commenced to price gouge.
no, rhetoric only meant to motivate by fear turnt around into demotivation: helplessness.
look up Climate Clock to see the exact year.
bye bye world
Guys. Chill. The world will be fine. The planet will go on.
Humanity, on the other hand, is fucked.
We deserve it
Obviously.
That depends on how you define world. I would include all life on the planet to be part of the world. We are actively killing biodiversity, wiping species from the earth, all from our direct negative contributions to the world.
So yea, the planet and life overall will find a way, but not all life that happened to live in the same era (and after) as humans
billions of years for microorganisms and lifeforms to make the big volcanic rock with acidic oceans turn pleasant and habitable. next civiliation occurs closer to the implosion of the sun and has material like plastic in theie periodic table…
nope, even all plastic particles will have been cracked down at the point where they come up with funny diagrams.
Sorry, all life? Even the mosquitoes? Damn.
There are many Great Filters, but this one is mine (ours).
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e76111b3-5a25-49b0-995c-badc957ce564.gif">
Over the course of the history of the planet, there have been several extinction events, and then over time, new life evolves from what remains creating new biodiversity. The only difference is that the mass extinction is being caused by an apex predator, (humans,) instead of a meteor, or volcano. The earth will incorporate plastic into the new ecology. It’s already happening. We will go extinct by making the planet incompatible with human life; other life will exist and thrive.
we would not be the first organisms to create harsh conditions.
Dang ol’ photosynthesizers man that gad dum oxygen I tell you what
But it took a lot longer than 150 years to fuck the planet
We are effective if not intelligent.
6th extinction…
as you point out, it’s human made and thus fails your comparison. it could have been avoided.
Despite being human beings, we are still living organisms that evolved. Our species evolved intelligence which led to agriculture, industry, the industrial revolution, and our current ecological shitshow. In theory, we possess the intelligence to change course and attempt to fix things, but our collective greed and hubris will ensure that the capitalists end up ruling over a pile of smoldering ash from their bunkers. I’m not trying to downplay how badly we as a species have fucked up or how much damage we have done, just that evolution will continue despite us, even though we are the ones that pushed things in a certain direction.
Your apathy and mental phlegm makes me furious. We don’t “go extinct”, billions and billions of sentient beings will suffer greatly for centuries to come because of it. More so with every bit of warming we are adding or preventing. It’s far from over, this is barely beginning. So stop this doomer bullshit and take responsibility for your life and your actions.
Oh, the UN. The international united-circus organization that no country gives a fuck about its laws or abide its rullings because the US government, represented by its pyscopathic oligarchs and paid politicians, can
veetoshit on anything they want as long as more data centers, more fossil-fuelled wars, larger militry budget, … make them a little richer.The UN is a circus organization with no power by design. Because it’s primary purpose is a keeping every country at the table no matter what for diplomacy, to reduce the odds of another world war
Always makes me laugh reading stuff like the comment you replied to. The UN isn’t a stick to beat countries with, it’s primarily a round table to get otherwise-adversaries to talk.
The good news is that it is still something we can deal with. I mean, to just give up is to let the current “owners of the world win” ( billionaires and gang).
And how do we stop those billionaires?
The way that I see it, they won’t stop by themselves. We either get politicians to finally stop them (highly doubtful) or the world citizens stop them by force.
What other solution is there?
I mean honestly a fundamental restructuring of democracy in the US. We need a 3rd party in the US that can hijack the Democratic party apparatus without falling victim to its trappings in order to crack the first-past-the-post system; without that, capital has the oppressive power of the top 5 most funded militaries in human history. The US squats on any country that even thinks of not playing nicely with capital, and without that there can be no resistance to climate change.
Beyond that, you really just need to prepare. Blah blah, mutual aid, community defense, etc. I’m not gonna bore you with what you know, just reiterate that it WILL help when shit hits the fan. I guarantee you when your kids are getting conscripted into the water wars, you’re gonna want to have enough community presence to push back.
Riot. Bloodshed.
Uh huh, that was by design
Those Paris climate accords were literally useless, as it was nothing more but a kind suggestion.
Even when we would have made hard contracts we know that half the countries out there would have failed for a variety of reasons (most of them being a variety of “ah but I want to be re-elected and if I try to save the world, things will be slightly harder for my base, so I sign for yes, and then do no”)
This was just a “well let’s give it a try” and the US immediately borked out with Trump because now it’s cool to have mentally deficient adults controlling countries.
Nobody with a brain ever believed that we’d his that 1.5 degree limit. Ik actually fairly confident that we’ll get a two degree limit, which we’ll crash right through, then we’ll start producing CO2 harder and faster than ever before just to be sure we can take straight through the 3 and 4 degree limits that we’ll set because politicians don’t give a fuck about any of this, they only care about their reelection and the populace of countries that matter either can’t do anything about it (hello China, how is Winnie today?) or just too fucking dumb to even understand the issue (hello USA, how is the Cheeto today?)
I honestly believe that we’re in humanities end-times. Not the biblical ones, those were fairytales, but the real one that humanity made for itself. There is no one to blame but us. I think GenX will live to see how humanity dies out, because nobody will fix this obvious problem with obvious solutions, everyone who matters can only think about themselves so enjoy the days that we have left, all.
Dumb ways to die, so many dumb ways to die.
Money buys power and influence and politicians react more to that than their own constituents. When money can bend reality and get people to vote against their own interests just to keep the status quo, there’ll be no change.
I mean, for all the things we do right we get stuff like the Bezos wedding where everyone arrives via private jet or COP25 where everyone also arrives by private jet to discuss the climate.
We have Greta Thunberg who addressed the world leaders and voiced our discontent at their lack of action. Her views are not unique and are a reflection of many but yet, despite laying the truth bare and shaming leaders for their inaction, power and influence labels her as whatever they want to discredit her words and influence.
So, if we want to reverse things and change, we need to target the rich and tax them, shame them, eat them… Whatever it takes and only then will we be able to do something net positive. Doing ‘our part’ is not enough when the top 1% literally offsets all of our efforts everyday.
It just seems crazy. Normal, sane, hardworking people of the world are begging for governments and corporations to stop killing us through pollution, but the rich don’t give a fuck. There won’t be consequences for them. There won’t be a reckoning. It just feels like they’ll stubbornly punish all of us for not being born wealthy like they were.
This is where I envy religious people: I would love to believe that proper justice will be served eventually. But I can’t, I have to watch the injustices and cannot do anything about it.
And the corpos and govs cry incessantly about not being given new victims to exploit and discard. The entitlement is disgusting.
Gonna need to get those Coke-drinking polar bears a fridge…
It’s over. Even if every single person and corporation did an about-face on this right now, inertia alone would carry us into the consequences this was intended to avoid. Enjoy it while it lasts.
If everyone got together and came to the decision to fix the planet, it would probably still be possible, even though it’ll likely get to a point where going outside is a complication. Generations, to be sure.
Though of course, we’re never all going to agree on how to go about it, so you might be right.
We all know we are fucked. I am living in the moment till it all ends and never having children. Humanity will destroy this planet long before it changes course.
Covid convinced me we’re done.
We couldn’t even get people to wear a fucking mask to protect themselves from a disease they saw killing their neighbors. Shit - we can’t get them to allow other people to wear a mask.
The part that absolutely kills me about this is that there were anti-maskers during the 1918 “spanish flu” pandemic. This suggest that with two valid examples that this is a bad idea, people still chose to not do it. It also suggests that we’re still the same society that we were 100 years ago.
history.com/…/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resis…
We’re still the same society we were 500 years ago, just with technology.
COVID (or more specifically, the response to it) was the turning point for me as well. The realization that we would not work together to manage a crisis.
If people won’t do the easy shit, they sure as hell won’t do the more difficult things that are needed to address climate collapse.
Planet will be fine. Humanity and many other lifeforms? Not so much.
Mass extinction event is all ready happening so yeah
The next topic under this Post is that Texas sues Tylenol because of autism claims.
We’re fucking doomed. Thats what I personally think and I really Wish and Hope that I’m wrong.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Lol yeah change course now because all the other warnings worked
We are fucked.
Thats been humanities lower back tattoo for a while now.
Hot climate take: Having children is the most selfish thing possible.
The problem is capitalism
Consumer-capitalism. Neither is great, but their combination is truly horrifying.