Chainweasel@lemmy.world
on 15 Dec 19:18
nextcollapse
They’re just bound and determined to start WW3 aren’t they?
At some point they’ll piss off another major player in the region like Saudi Arabia or Turkey and it’ll snowball into a conflict that can’t be talked down.
ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 15 Dec 20:55
collapse
These dictatorships, and Israel with this current cabinet is effectively a fascist dictatorship, want to expand their sphere of influence and territory. They are willing to disregard the rules based order and risk WWIII even if that isn’t the goal.
The Middle East seems to be in this three way power struggle now between Turkey, Saudi Arabia backed by the US, and Iran backed by Russia. Iran is part of this axis with China, North Korea, and Russia. Turkey is in NATO and wants to be a EU member, but is an enemy of the Kurds a US ally.
The US wants Israel and Saudi Arabia to join in a defense pact so our two allies will help us maintain peace in the region. Saudi Arabia wants to be the leaders of a new caliphate in the Middle East that unites the countries and Muslims living there. Defense pacts with the US and Israel would help them do that. But the Middle East is united in their support of Palestine which means Israel needs to make concessions on Palestine or Saudi Arabia will never be seen as a legitimate leader of the Middle East.
So Israel’s genocide of the Palestinians is not only destabilizing the region and making Israel a pariah, it’s also knee capping Saudi Arabia’s ambitions. Saudi Arabia needs US support but they can’t be seen as an ally to a genocidal Israel.
At the same time Israel has undermined Iran’s proxy network which allowed Syrian rebels to win the civil war. Iran and Russia are now on the back foot in the region.
Rather than swoop in and be a uniter, Turkey is wasting time fighting the Kurds in Syria.
Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey all want to be the leaders of a future caliphate, but thanks to Israel none of them are in a position to get it. This is a terrible situation for the people living in the Middle East and in the long run can only lead to Israel getting more land, influence, and resources in the region.
At this point a country without strong foreign ties that emphasizes the idea of self-determination for countries in the Middle East is more likely to unite the Middle East than Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Turkey. If Syria could recover from the war quickly enough, they could be in an excellent position to do this, given the HTS leader’s talking points. HTS and the Kurds need to double down on an alliance and kick out ISIS and Turkey asap.
Peace in the Middle East is what is good for everyone in the long run, even if some people argue it could theoretically hurt US interests in the short run. A united Europe has benefited that region and the world tremendously. A new Middle Eastern super power might scare some policy people, but it would be an important counter balance to Russia, China, India, and Israel. Those four countries especially would happily carve up the Middle East into bits if they can as the US becomes isolationist under Trump. edit: typo
I was biginning to laugh through the second half of your post but especially after this:
HTS and the Kurds need to double down on an alliance and kick out ISIS and Turkey asap.
Now I don’t know what you are aware of regarding the relationship between the HTS alliance and Turkey, but what exactly do you think is going to go down when HTS starts attacking Turkish interests?
The US and its NATO allies do not want peace in the West Asia region. They want perpetual destabilization and war, to prevent the reformation of an united Arab bloc, that could throw around its geopolitical weight. That is why Biden said if there was no Israel, the US would need to create one. It is the thorn driven into the region to make sure that the divisive partioning of the Arab national states keeps fueling conflict. The way the Brits and French carved up the region was done to deliberately create nations with inner conflicts, easily exploitable.
They aren’t surprising, if you followed the politics of Biden longer, or you looked into his stance on Israel. Biden is a die-hard Zionist, that fully supports the land stealing and annihilation of the Palestinians. It is only because of minorities in the US, who used to be a main target audience for the Democrats got worried, the US will pull the same shit again. So they had to pretend to disagree with it. Netanyahu knows that he could make Biden his little b**** servant and knew him pushing Biden around would help Netanyahu internally in Israel. This way the fascists got their delusions of grandeur fed further. So Biden got a bit pissed, that he was publicly humiliated time and time again, but because of his die-hard convictions and his advanced dementia he continued to give Netanyahu everything he wants and continued to get himself humiliated publicly.
Problem is that now that the minorities in the US know that the Democrats are spineless with no regard for their well being and safety, the Democrats will probably fully abandon them and embrace their latent white supremacy fully again.
ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 18 Dec 03:06
collapse
The way the Brits and French carved up the region was done to deliberately create nations with inner conflicts, easily exploitable.
That was true of US and western foreign policy more generally in the past. The idea being that if the Middle East is divided they wouldn’t be a threat to Europe and the rest of the world.
Things are somewhat different now. The US wants to have its cake and eat it too. The current Biden administration realize if the Middle East is destabilized for too long someone like ISIS will takeover and be a problem for everyone. That’s why they are trying to get Israel and Saudi Arabia to agree to a defense pact. The US is fine with a united Middle East, because from an economic perspective, these foreign wars are bad for business. The US wants what amounts to a second NATO to keep things running smoothly.
My point is that a united Middle East is a useful arrangement for the region and world regardless if the US or any other foreign power has a stake in it. In fact, better if it doesn’t. An independent Middle East can interface with the rest of the world militarily and economically as a block. This will ensure mutual defense as well as economic protections for workers for the people living in the region. Without any pressure to take part in exploitive, debt saddling, deals like China’s Belt and Road initiative or expansionist wars like Russia’s war in Ukraine.
If the Middle East unites around ideas like self-determination for member countries, then they will be no more of a threatening superpower than Europe is now. And they will be able to stop the ambitions of hostile nations like Russia and Israel.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world
on 15 Dec 19:35
nextcollapse
Doesn’t matter if you want peace or not…
If Israel or Russia wants your land, they’ll claim you’re attacking them and they have to invade your country in defense.
bxom61p66l4utism@lemmy.cafe
on 15 Dec 20:59
collapse
ICastFist@programming.dev
on 15 Dec 19:42
nextcollapse
Bibi ensuring the next Syrian govt hates Israel more than Assad did. You know, so the land can be stable and all
ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 15 Dec 19:59
collapse
It depends how far Israel goes with this. Syria isn’t in a position to to pick fights or hold grudges. But Syrian rebel groups aren’t going to let Israel conquer them or leave them so debilitated someone else can conquer them. If Israel keeps it’s attacks to abandoned regime military equipment and the land grabs to the Golan Heights then Syrian rebel groups are probably going to let it slide for the foreseeable future.
Responding to Jolani, the Israel Defense Forces chief of staff, Herzi Halevi, said: “We aren’t intervening in what is happening in Syria. We have no intention of administering Syria.”
It’s also important to remember that when Israel says they don’t want to administer other people or countries they mean they don’t want to rule other people, they want the land and resources. That’s why they are killing everyone in the Gaza strip and refusing to leave despite saying they don’t want to administer Palestinians. Forming a greater Israel means taking as much land as they can get away with and killing and/or ostracizing everyone on it who isn’t a Jew. edit: typo
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
on 16 Dec 00:19
nextcollapse
killing and/or ostracizing everyone on it who isn’t a Jew Israeli
Israel kills people, both Palestinian and Lebanese, regardless of whether their religion is Muslim, Christian, or Jewish
Israel does not care about the safety of Jewish people. Their constant deflection about how their military actions are in the name of protecting Jewish people, and the intentional conflation of anti-zionism and antisemitism, has only increased genuine antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people worldwide
ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 16 Dec 01:06
collapse
killing and/or ostracizing everyone on it who isn’t a Jew Israeli
Palestinians live in Israel and the Israel government does not care about Palestinian citizens of Israel. They claim to care about Jewish Israelis and Jews more broadly. A fascist makes a hierarchy not for the people at the top the hierarchy, but for the fascists. My only point was that Jews are at the top of the Zionist hierarchy, not that the Zionists in control of Israel care about Jews, because they do not.
Of course Israel and Russia, for that matter, do not really care about Jews or Russians respectively or people at all for that matter. Israel’s fascist government targets Palestinians, Lebanese, and Syrians because they are the other. A scope goat to misdirect class resentment from the owner class to minorities and foreigners.
Israel does not care about the safety of Jewish people. Their constant deflection about how their military actions are in the name of protecting Jewish people, and the intentional conflation of anti-zionism and antisemitism, has only increased genuine antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people worldwide
No kidding and well said. I, as a Jew, am less safe now than before Israel’s genocide. The point is the genocide is being carried out in the name of Israeli Jews and Jews more broadly, which sucks. To be clear, I am anti-zionist and anti-fascist, but not antisemtic. Anti-zionism and anti-fascism should always go hand in hand because zionism is a form of fascism.
Also, as long as I’m dancing around using the word, I don’t particularly like the term diaspora Jew. I am not living in diaspora. I live in the US where I am full citizen. I have rights and freedoms here that are not preconditioned on whether or not I am Jewish. edit: typo
Didn’t these strikes take out weapons and military matriell left behind by the Syrian Army? Not a supporter of Israel or their war in a any way, but that region needs less missiles.
The expansion on Golan is again a Nethanayu atrocity
itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 16 Dec 12:21
collapse
The region needs fewer missiles, but that’s not up to Israel to decide and enact. An unprovoked first strike is simply psychopathic
threaded - newest
They’re just bound and determined to start WW3 aren’t they?
At some point they’ll piss off another major player in the region like Saudi Arabia or Turkey and it’ll snowball into a conflict that can’t be talked down.
These dictatorships, and Israel with this current cabinet is effectively a fascist dictatorship, want to expand their sphere of influence and territory. They are willing to disregard the rules based order and risk WWIII even if that isn’t the goal.
The Middle East seems to be in this three way power struggle now between Turkey, Saudi Arabia backed by the US, and Iran backed by Russia. Iran is part of this axis with China, North Korea, and Russia. Turkey is in NATO and wants to be a EU member, but is an enemy of the Kurds a US ally.
The US wants Israel and Saudi Arabia to join in a defense pact so our two allies will help us maintain peace in the region. Saudi Arabia wants to be the leaders of a new caliphate in the Middle East that unites the countries and Muslims living there. Defense pacts with the US and Israel would help them do that. But the Middle East is united in their support of Palestine which means Israel needs to make concessions on Palestine or Saudi Arabia will never be seen as a legitimate leader of the Middle East.
So Israel’s genocide of the Palestinians is not only destabilizing the region and making Israel a pariah, it’s also knee capping Saudi Arabia’s ambitions. Saudi Arabia needs US support but they can’t be seen as an ally to a genocidal Israel.
At the same time Israel has undermined Iran’s proxy network which allowed Syrian rebels to win the civil war. Iran and Russia are now on the back foot in the region.
Rather than swoop in and be a uniter, Turkey is wasting time fighting the Kurds in Syria.
Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey all want to be the leaders of a future caliphate, but thanks to Israel none of them are in a position to get it. This is a terrible situation for the people living in the Middle East and in the long run can only lead to Israel getting more land, influence, and resources in the region.
At this point a country without strong foreign ties that emphasizes the idea of self-determination for countries in the Middle East is more likely to unite the Middle East than Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Turkey. If Syria could recover from the war quickly enough, they could be in an excellent position to do this, given the HTS leader’s talking points. HTS and the Kurds need to double down on an alliance and kick out ISIS and Turkey asap.
Peace in the Middle East is what is good for everyone in the long run, even if some people argue it could theoretically hurt US interests in the short run. A united Europe has benefited that region and the world tremendously. A new Middle Eastern super power might scare some policy people, but it would be an important counter balance to Russia, China, India, and Israel. Those four countries especially would happily carve up the Middle East into bits if they can as the US becomes isolationist under Trump. edit: typo
I was biginning to laugh through the second half of your post but especially after this:
Now I don’t know what you are aware of regarding the relationship between the HTS alliance and Turkey, but what exactly do you think is going to go down when HTS starts attacking Turkish interests?
The US and its NATO allies do not want peace in the West Asia region. They want perpetual destabilization and war, to prevent the reformation of an united Arab bloc, that could throw around its geopolitical weight. That is why Biden said if there was no Israel, the US would need to create one. It is the thorn driven into the region to make sure that the divisive partioning of the Arab national states keeps fueling conflict. The way the Brits and French carved up the region was done to deliberately create nations with inner conflicts, easily exploitable.
Citation needed on the Biden quotation so, so hard.
Here you go. It is recorded on Video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Nrv5izaTs
Well, fair enough. You can maybe see why I was sceptical though. The source even says the statements are surprising lol.
They aren’t surprising, if you followed the politics of Biden longer, or you looked into his stance on Israel. Biden is a die-hard Zionist, that fully supports the land stealing and annihilation of the Palestinians. It is only because of minorities in the US, who used to be a main target audience for the Democrats got worried, the US will pull the same shit again. So they had to pretend to disagree with it. Netanyahu knows that he could make Biden his little b**** servant and knew him pushing Biden around would help Netanyahu internally in Israel. This way the fascists got their delusions of grandeur fed further. So Biden got a bit pissed, that he was publicly humiliated time and time again, but because of his die-hard convictions and his advanced dementia he continued to give Netanyahu everything he wants and continued to get himself humiliated publicly.
Problem is that now that the minorities in the US know that the Democrats are spineless with no regard for their well being and safety, the Democrats will probably fully abandon them and embrace their latent white supremacy fully again.
That was true of US and western foreign policy more generally in the past. The idea being that if the Middle East is divided they wouldn’t be a threat to Europe and the rest of the world.
Things are somewhat different now. The US wants to have its cake and eat it too. The current Biden administration realize if the Middle East is destabilized for too long someone like ISIS will takeover and be a problem for everyone. That’s why they are trying to get Israel and Saudi Arabia to agree to a defense pact. The US is fine with a united Middle East, because from an economic perspective, these foreign wars are bad for business. The US wants what amounts to a second NATO to keep things running smoothly.
My point is that a united Middle East is a useful arrangement for the region and world regardless if the US or any other foreign power has a stake in it. In fact, better if it doesn’t. An independent Middle East can interface with the rest of the world militarily and economically as a block. This will ensure mutual defense as well as economic protections for workers for the people living in the region. Without any pressure to take part in exploitive, debt saddling, deals like China’s Belt and Road initiative or expansionist wars like Russia’s war in Ukraine.
If the Middle East unites around ideas like self-determination for member countries, then they will be no more of a threatening superpower than Europe is now. And they will be able to stop the ambitions of hostile nations like Russia and Israel.
Doesn’t matter if you want peace or not…
If Israel or Russia wants your land, they’ll claim you’re attacking them and they have to invade your country in defense.
It’s always the jews eh
Account age: 16 minutes
Bibi ensuring the next Syrian govt hates Israel more than Assad did. You know, so the land can be stable and all
It depends how far Israel goes with this. Syria isn’t in a position to to pick fights or hold grudges. But Syrian rebel groups aren’t going to let Israel conquer them or leave them so debilitated someone else can conquer them. If Israel keeps it’s attacks to abandoned regime military equipment and the land grabs to the Golan Heights then Syrian rebel groups are probably going to let it slide for the foreseeable future.
It’s also important to remember that when Israel says they don’t want to administer other people or countries they mean they don’t want to rule other people, they want the land and resources. That’s why they are killing everyone in the Gaza strip and refusing to leave despite saying they don’t want to administer Palestinians. Forming a greater Israel means taking as much land as they can get away with and killing and/or ostracizing everyone on it who isn’t a Jew. edit: typo
Israel kills people, both Palestinian and Lebanese, regardless of whether their religion is Muslim, Christian, or Jewish
Israel does not care about the safety of Jewish people. Their constant deflection about how their military actions are in the name of protecting Jewish people, and the intentional conflation of anti-zionism and antisemitism, has only increased genuine antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people worldwide
Hell, Israel has killed Israelis.
Palestinians live in Israel and the Israel government does not care about Palestinian citizens of Israel. They claim to care about Jewish Israelis and Jews more broadly. A fascist makes a hierarchy not for the people at the top the hierarchy, but for the fascists. My only point was that Jews are at the top of the Zionist hierarchy, not that the Zionists in control of Israel care about Jews, because they do not.
Of course Israel and Russia, for that matter, do not really care about Jews or Russians respectively or people at all for that matter. Israel’s fascist government targets Palestinians, Lebanese, and Syrians because they are the other. A scope goat to misdirect class resentment from the owner class to minorities and foreigners.
No kidding and well said. I, as a Jew, am less safe now than before Israel’s genocide. The point is the genocide is being carried out in the name of Israeli Jews and Jews more broadly, which sucks. To be clear, I am anti-zionist and anti-fascist, but not antisemtic. Anti-zionism and anti-fascism should always go hand in hand because zionism is a form of fascism.
Also, as long as I’m dancing around using the word, I don’t particularly like the term diaspora Jew. I am not living in diaspora. I live in the US where I am full citizen. I have rights and freedoms here that are not preconditioned on whether or not I am Jewish. edit: typo
If the settlers get their way they will try to take everything to the Euphrates. My new personal nightmare is Trump detailing American troops to help.
Israel doesn’t want peace though. And peace takes two. War only takes one.
‘Israel launches dozens of airstrikes on Syria encouraged by rebel leader’s peace pledge’. There, I fixed the english in the headline.
Didn’t these strikes take out weapons and military matriell left behind by the Syrian Army? Not a supporter of Israel or their war in a any way, but that region needs less missiles.
The expansion on Golan is again a Nethanayu atrocity
The region needs fewer missiles, but that’s not up to Israel to decide and enact. An unprovoked first strike is simply psychopathic