How would it be thought good to continue the same use of animals?
from FredVegrox@lemmy.world to vegan@lemmy.world on 24 Mar 09:24
https://lemmy.world/post/44674491
from FredVegrox@lemmy.world to vegan@lemmy.world on 24 Mar 09:24
https://lemmy.world/post/44674491
How is it any people cannot put themselves in that place with imagining? Even animals could identify with what would not be desirable. Humans should have the sensibility to know they would not want what the animals being used are put through, we can likewise choose to not have anything to do with that, and we can already find out ourselves that there are ways to be very healthy this way without products from animals. And the same amount of use of resources for it and contribution to damage to environments with loss of species does not need to be continued then. …emory.edu/could-eating-30-plants-a-week-be-the-a…
#vegan
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Not a vegan but since when is posting vegan content to a vegan community “spamming”?
Why are you even in here!?
Yeah, if you can’t respond to vegans respectably in their own space block it. I’m also not one, but I respect their lifestyle so I don’t feel the need to block them. Unlike the carnivore community which I can’t interact with respectfully and have blocked
But think of the kids!
People eat way more meat than humans “evolved to eat” and more than is healthy. Stop pretending it’s about biology. It’s not. Humans are omnivores and are perfectly fine without animal products.
Eat meat if you want to, but please be honest to yourself. You don’t need it, you want it. And you support unfathomable cruelty doing so. That is not “vegan bs”, but reality.
I’m not vegan myself, not even strictly vegetarian. Still I can acknowledge OPs point wholeheartedly.
Edit: also I just noticed this is a vegan community. Just block it and go on with your life instead of whining about so called spam??
We absolutely are not okay without eating animal products. I have just been diagnosed with a vitamin B12 deficiency and have learned this lesson personally. We are now capable of living without animal products but we are by no means healthy without them.
It requires some of the most ultra processed creations in existence to compensate for that nutrient to exist without it coming from an animal product
Please don’t spread pseudoscientific bullshit based on anecdotal evidence. Not only are humans “now” capable of living without animal products, but meta-analysis after meta-analysis (linked is just a sample) shows that humans are healthier for it.
The extent of that health benefit? That’s a grey area that can make for a rational discussion. That it’s blanket unhealthy? The exact opposite of what modern medical science says, and we don’t put up with it here – not for ethical reasons, because “plant-based dieting is healthy” isn’t a tenet of veganism, but because medical disinformation isn’t allowed on Lemmy.World (and shouldn’t be tolerated anywhere).
Brave of you to comment this in the vegan community 😅
I’m also not vegan but I absolutely support ending factory farming, cutting down on meat in general (even free range), and having a veg-first diet. I think we can be better, even if we don’t go vegan. For me personally, the environmental impact (methane) is more significant than any moral directive.
OP, the cognitive dissonance you point out is totally valid. I honestly think it almost entirely boils down to how far removed we (the general population) are from the process that ends with ingredients in the fridge.
If you took me to a chicken coop, gave me a butcher knife, and told me I had to prepare dinner with one of the little fellas I’d probably make a run for it. Which is quite hypocritical of me as a chicken enjoyer.
Perhaps another small part of it is the boundary of what people can/cannot empathise with. To be completely honest I feel far less for things like shrimp and oysters than I do about cows and chickens. I don’t know if that’s backed by the science (they don’t “feel”/comprehend as much) or just my narrow mindedness about how other life forms work.
Are you lost? Fuck off.
North or south of 200lbs?
you can be fat and vegan. This isnt… its not it.
And their ancestors most likely ate like peasants not royalty. They can drink bacon fat at every meal, I’m still going to find them at least as annoying as the vegan.
Im really confused
Well /u/tryll1980 is a dumbass and harping for complete meat elimination to the masses ain’t going to happen, tired of hearing the same shit, you might not say that’s where OP was headed but again, been here, done that. We could start with the way factory farming is fucked but most of the core would rather have an all or nothing victory
Okay but i want my treats so what if i juat dont think about them? Does that work?
-sent from my iphone. Dont ask where the minerals come from.
I will bite, my take is that responsibility, accountability and empathy are all things lacking in society that encourages and rewards selfishness and betterment of self above all else. It really is a shock when you mention these things to people that then associate what you are saying with “their” food. You are attacking the very sense of self, ego and identity which leads to defensive reactions that are not based on logic let alone empathy. The only way to change this is to address the systemic reliance on self promotion and preservation, but this means equality and communities at all levels to not discriminate amongst people within them and support them with basic needs, including quality education that supports critical thinking and comprehension. With this, people will be more receptive and it will be less about advocating on behalf of those species that can’t or fighting against long held traditions and more that they will find this to be a reasonable thing that they conclude themselves because they no longer have to fight for their place or status in society.
Vegans: Make a community for themselves
Meat-eaters: See block button. Choose to downvote/comment against it instead.
If posts about veganism are that offensive to you, just block and move on. If there were a com about meat-eating, that’s what I’d do with it.
Okay, all you wonderful, reasonable people, I’m ready for your downvotes!
I admire your discipline. I usually fuck around in meat eating communities until I get banned.
nobody cares or gets offended there though so… yeah. nobody cares
Oh nooo, our echo chamber is being invaded by discussion!
I’ve never seen a good faith argument against veganism in my life. It’s all trolling and tired “jokes.”
Counterpoint: western society itself is a carnist echo chamber. We’re surrounded by their views most everywhere we go. All we want is a little space online where we don’t have to be drowned in it.
Does anyone force you to eat meat? Are you offended by the mere idea of a t-bone steak?
If yes to the first: you’re an actual victim.
If yes to the second: you’re drowning yourself, nobody screams about a genuine carnivorous diet, but I’ve never seen a vegan who just sits down at a meal and doesn’t berate everyone at the table that eats meat.
Fuck this kind of victim-complex delusion.
I have shared meals with vegans who don’t do what you describe. Almost all of them in fact don’t do what you describe
Okay cool, we both have confirmation bias, just because you know some apples are good, doesn’t mean the whole batch is.
Just because you have never seen an apple doesnt mean they don’t exist is better
I am not confirming anything other than I have a different experience.
I’m sharing an experience for the record that there are vegans who aren’t assholes the way you describe them to be as that is an incredibly popular stereotype. An unhelpful stereotype. It also includes that I have encountered your stated experience and not denied that it can be true
I thought it would be helpful for other people to hear that from a non vegan meat eater who has had plenty of healthy encounters with vegans and that just because someone is vegan it doesn’t make them unpleasant people the way you seemed to me to be arguing.
Ill be here arguing with people but begrudgingly welcomed while you will just get eventually ignored or banned completely and then you will contribute nothing to the discussion. Which is perhaps for the best then if that’s how it turns out. But maybe I’ll get banned. Either way It won’t really affect me much, but seems like you have a need to scream at people and that seems like it will cause you some personal problems.
Good luck
Wow, three whole paragraphs of ‘no u’ and ‘get banned’ instead of just reporting me? You sure you’re not the one that needs to scream at something? Get bent, and continue to be a prefect example of why people hate vegans as a whole.
The only reason Im here is because i browse by everything and posts in this comm pop up frequently. Same as womenstuff so I get exposed to these posts without making any effort at all to encounter them as non vegetarian.
I don’t vote on the vast majority of posts I encounter. I don’t care for the voting system but I’ll use it if a post strikes me as bad content for Lemmy in general.
I don’t care what comm I’m in. Rarely check. I’ll engage with content if I have something to say, usually pass without comment. As most people do.
I don’t understand why restricted comms even show up for the whole Lemmy to see if they aren’t welcome to have all of lemmys eyeballs on them.
People who post content in niche places that are actively hostile to the vast majority of a larger community are naturally going to get massacred in any popular vote. That’s just math. And it’s a problem because it’s content for the wrong audience and just causes friction.
As far as I know unlike a comm that restricts who is allowed to post, non vegans are welcome to be here even if they aren’t very much appreciated and many of the vegans would just prefer they avoided it entirely instead of messing with it. Look but don’t touch kind of thing that’s my approach, but I get it wrong or just have had days too like anyone else.
I don’t think blocking out things you don’t like, or make you a bit sqeemish about, is a good habit to form. It’s absolutely a valuable tool but it’s too easy to create echo chambers and I constantly see that lack of encountering things greater than your own opinion being bad for your health over the long run.
We need to challenge the things that make us uncomfortable to make any real change happen. I wish I had a better solution for the people who need tear down all the things they don’t personally feel comfortable with it that challenge them in someway.
Perhaps I’m naive, but I look at this place and others like it as people sharing their opinions not communities acting as a group. It’s convenient to have those communities because they are real things that exist, but the content is for everyone even when everyone shouldn’t be responding to it. I hope I explained that properly.
Food and the consumption of it is a human universality. We all have it in common so I think whether you are vegan, vegetarian, or neither, it will draw interest far outside those it is intended to because food is just relatable one way or another.
I think it’s very mature of the vegans communities I’ve encountered on here that they don’t segregate themselves. I think that’s the only way to stop hostilities between different worldviews and start helping each other be better.
Thanks for getting through my dumb thoughts. If you are ever in Quebec City, one of the best soups I’ve ever had was a Thai curry soup from Don Vegan the first vegan only restaurant in that historic city.
It’s not that people think of it as “good”, they just don’t think about it at all. Most people don’t think about where their food really comes from, and where their demand for meat exists, capitalism maximizes profits.
Then there are other issues, like lack of empathy, or just not regarding animals as deserving of life. Some non-vegans may know the source of their food but they simply don’t care.
And then there’s always cognitive dissonance where they might care, but they shove that in the back of their mind and justify eating meat anyway.
All this makes it difficult for a one-size-fits-all approach to educating non-vegans in hope they’ll change their eating habits. It’s not a matter of truth or good, it’s a complex matter of knowing, having the capacity for empathy, recognizing animals as deserving of empathy, and then believing that this information is more important than their desire to eat meat.
They also get really mad when you make them think about it, because most people know it’s wrong.
Or, perhaps, just maybe, they don’t enjoy being vilified by people that claim moral high ground over a choice?
Remember, no one is born vegan.
My personal experience was, in fact, that I was mad at vegans for making me think about it. I find most people, when pressed, feel that hurting animals is wrong and sometimes will even admit it. That’s why so many of them are obsessed with the future being lab-grown meat, they’d rather be able to eat flesh without hurting anyone.
I bet that applies to you, too. If we could grow lab grown bacon, which tastes exactly the same as flesh from a pig, you’d choose it every time. I doubt you actually want to hurt pigs.
Honestly, eating vegan, or even vegetarian, is too much of a hassle for most people most of the time, and that’s by design. So is eating anything that isn’t 80% corn syrup and processed sugar. Our society prioritizes cheap and/or artificial over everything else. Until that changes at a systemic level people aren’t going to change their eating habits.
This is true for much more than just food as well. Most won’t stop using plastic until the alternatives are cheaper and more accessible. Same with renewable energy, public transportation, pesticides, polyester clothing, etc. Most people are fundamentally lazy and will not go out of their way to do something beneficial for others unless they have a financial incentive to do so. Awareness of a problem only elicits a response in a small minority of the population.
I'm pretty sure the word you are looking for is capitalism. And it's not the only way people can live.
Sure, but saying that doesn’t change the fact that almost everyone in the industrialized world does live that way
Efficient systems that work fine are always dismantled & pushed into something where more complicated & more expensive industries are involved.
It’s why we don’t have more railroad infrastructure (trains, trams, tracks, connections, good ux, etc).
Pushing a product like meats just makes more profit margin, more wealth transfer, political power, etc.
Financial sense and economical sense differ a lot.
I cant stand how ppl downvote a vegan post in a vegan space.
There are no lies here. We farmed animals growing up. If thier early death makes you uncomfortable, stop eating animal products.
This post is in global feed.
Good for them dying so young, or else 90% of them would need antidepressants