Go vegan
from nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de to vegan@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 2025 17:49
https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/51708917
from nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de to vegan@lemmy.world on 28 Dec 2025 17:49
https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/51708917
#vegan
threaded - newest
With egg substitutes, plant milks, and nooch it isn’t even hard at this point.
The cheese substitutes haven’t quite caught up yet, but some of them are still pretty good.
I miss being to buy whatever spicy snacks I want, though. They all have milk solids. 💢
I’m still yet to find a decent substitute for a sharp, mature cheddar and its one of the main things I’m missing ATM. All the ones I’ve tried that claim they are are just too creamy/ mild.
Daiya is okay, but it reminds me more of Parmesan than cheddar
I hear miyokos has good cheddar, never tried them though
Protip on the cheese substitutes:
If you want that shit to melt, wet it first.
You see that vegan slice of cheese? Run it under the tap before using it.
I dont get it really… as long as i dont kill something and eat it, whats the problem?
Arent unfertiluzed eggs just little containers of protein? Dont cows need to be milked?
Am i missing something?
What do you think happens to male chicks in the egg industry? I’ll give you a hint, it involves industrial grinders and pink paste.
Cows produce milk for their young, like all mammals. The “need” to milk them arises from milk production, in which we forcibly impregnate cows and take their young away. You can hardly call something a “need” if it only happens once you purposefully impregnate a cow for its milk and abduct their calves.
And that’s disregarding the atrocious conditions in hatcheries and dairy farms.
The egg and dairy industries are the meat industry, and honestly anyone who’s vegetarian for “ethical” reasons without immediate plans to become vegan are deluding themselves.
I think some concessions could be made for small batch local milk and eggs.
I was gonna say, i have chickens and get my own eggs. They are treated well. Even after their egg laying time is up, then they become basically pets.
I mean if you are vegan to avoid cruelty to animals, then raise your own chickens…its really super easy. And the eggs taste better too.
If I help some mentally handicapped homeless women with newborn children, do you think it’s OK for me to milk these women since I’m helping them? Even if their milk taste the freshest?
Veganism is about not exploiting animals when you don’t have to.
Even in your scenario, there can be cruelty involved: the hatcheries you get your chickens from also grind the day old male baby chicks. These genetically modified egg laying hens that put about 1 egg a day have a huge strain on their bodies compared to what their natural counterpart used to be (red jungle fowl), laying about 1 egg a month.
But to reiterate, veganism is about not exploiting animals.
My concern is that many vegans who are deeply concerned about the exploitation of animals are ignoring the exploitation of people at the same time which feels deeply hypocritical, if not performative.
If you’re refusing to raise chickens because you feel it’s exploitative, but you are happily buying bulk produce from a chain grocery store in the USA, you are contributing directly to the exploitation of migrant workers.
I would rather exploit a chicken than a human. If I can raise a chicken easily but not grow the equivalent source of protein myself (soy etc) and would have to rely on the grocery chain or post exorbitant prices at local farmers markets, I’m sorry, but I’m going to raise the chicken for eggs.
One thing is a system that depends on exploitation. These systems should be abolished, like exploiting animals for their flesh or secretions.
Another completely different thing is a system that contains exploitation. These should be improved, like underpaid/overworked employees.
There is no hypocrisy in that. It’s not a dichotomy where you need to exploit either an animal or an human. Just go vegan and also advocate for human rights.
As a consumer, I do not have a choice. I am presented with a reality right now: contribute to the exploitation of a human, or contribute to the exploitation of an animal.
The theory you are presenting is lovely but it does not reflect the experience I am actually living. I do not consider it morally acceptable to contribute to the exploitation of humans but not animals, simply because getting vegetables without exploiting migrants is something we could theoretically do one day.
Can you imagine sitting in front of a migrant and telling them “yeah, I mean, I know they’re treating you like shit, and I could help with that by not giving them money until they treat you better, but to do that I’d have to take eggs from a chicken, so I’m gonna give your oppressors my money and just be angry about it, okay?”
That just feels really wrong.
For the record, it’s problems like this that make me a moral relativist. For some people it is ethical to eat eggs. For others it is not. The calculus is complicated and I cannot get behind the idea of an absolute right or wrong.
You say that as if migrant workers aren’t exploited to make animal products.
When you buy a meal, you have 2 options: contribute to animal exploitation (that probably contains human exploitation) or not.
If you know which companies exploit humans, it’s on you to denounce them publicly and not support them.
Until you can name these companies so you know what to avoid, you can be sure that any animal product you get is the result of animal exploitation (and probably human as well).
We were specifically discussing the consumption of eggs from home-raised livestock so I’m not sure this reply is in context?
Why not compare to home crops, then? If the person has resources to produce the animal feed (so they can ensure there are no humans being exploited, right?), they surely can grow crops to directly eat.
Crops take dramatically more land, and labor, for one.
And it is absolutely feasible and not especially difficult to feed one or two chickens with responsibly sourced animal feed options at a reasonable price, compared to the cost and availability of responsibly sourced vegan protein.
(Chicken feed from a local farmer is drastically cheaper than human-consumable produce from the same source.. Half the time you are literally just getting the leftovers from what they use for their own livestock)
It feels like you’re trying to move the goal posts on me.
Until now you were arguing that buying plants would incur in human exploitation. But now that I’ve argued for the least exploitative scenario, you came up with ‘responsibly sourced plant options at a reasonable price’.
So now we can get plants without exploiting immigrants, right?
Then there’s no need to exploit animals, simple as that
No. Please go reread the conversation again. I have always been discussing the relatively high cost of responsibly sourced vegan protein compared to raising one or two chickens for their eggs, which drives people who want to be vegan to purchase cheaper produce that involves exploiting humans. That has always been my concern. And that has always been what I’ve focused on. And saying that it is relatively easy to responsibly source chicken feed at a reasonable price compared to doing the same for human-consumable protein is perfectly consistent with my entire argument
You have just made an absolute statement of ideology that is disregarding rational debate. That is exactly what I have a problem with. You have decided on a specific ideology and nothing will change your mind, even when presented with reasonable explanations of why it may be flawed for some people.You appear to have edited your comment to add a “then” before the last sentence, or I misread.I’m done with this conversation now. Thank you for remaining civil, at least. Have a great day/night.
I’ll just summarize your points:
You’re missing that humans are also animals and we eat some of the same crops non-human animals eat. The human exploitation you’re arguing against doesn’t magically disappear from crops grown for animals.
Yup. You’ve got my points exactly correct. And when you’re ready to live on chicken feed every day we can continue this discussion. Until then, I will respectfully disagree with your claim.
so you eat eggs and meat and cheese exclusively to not exploit migrants farming the vegetables you eat?
what about going vegan and buying organic vegetables if you’re so concerned about human labor being exploited? I know I can’t afford it, but the least I can do I be vegan and abstain from unjustified and unnecessary animal cruelty, no?
This conversation was spawned from a question about home-raised livestock. My reply is specifically in that context. I would rather raise a chicken for it’s eggs and treat it as well as possible than put those same resources in the hands of exploitative grocers and produce providers.
It is far more feasible for an individual to raise one or two chickens for eggs than it is for them to farm the equivalent protein from vegan food sources.
As I originally said, my concern is with people who do not consider the downstream consequences of their decisions thoroughly and ignore or disregard the ways in which they contribute to human suffering while placing a high priority on animal suffering.
We all have limited options. Of course we should do what we can to eliminate suffering and exploitation in every way possible, both for humans and animals. But I have seen friends who went vegan gleefully buying soy products from Walmart even after being shown the option of raising a chicken at home and claiming a moral victory.
It bugs me 🤷♀️
It is not necessary to eat eggs, so why bother keeping chicken captive and occupying nature with providing their food? When vegetable nutrients are consumed directly, you’ll need less area to grow them.
I’ve answered this multiple times already. I’m not going to write it out again. Feel free to read my other comments.
I did not see the above argument before, please feel free to store it in your vegan arguments list somewhere. Besides, it was more like a rhetorical question anyway.
Everybody knows that animal feed comes from magical farms that never exploit humans.
Come on you vegan dummy, go get your B12 supplement. >!/s!<
So funny how when ‘vegan’ is mentioned, everybody is a homesteader.
I’m vegan specifically because the flesh trade involves exploitation of human workers. Killing those day old male baby chicks has a psychological toll on the humans that are forced to do it for their paycheck.
Not only the male, the female chick are genetically selected and lead to female having more eggs. I don’t recall the numbers but I think it is something like an egg everyday but in reality they would not have eggs everyday.
This also took me far longer to realize than I’d like to admit:
Cows only need to be milked after a pregnancy. And pregnancies lead to babies. In effect, we’re talking about 5-6 calves over the lifetime of 1 milk cow. Some of those calves will become the next generation of milk cows, but you’re not gonna keep those 4-5 extra calves around. Those will get slaughtered.
So, yeah, consuming milk products directly leads to cows being killed…
I hope milk cows have a nice retirement after they can’t “produce” enough babies and milk anymore /s
They get slaughtered when their milk production goes down around 6 years old. Even though they could get 18 - 20 years old. So not only the calves are slaughtered, their moms as well…
Yeah i know, i was role-playing the candid vegetarian :D
Ah yes, you got me, missed the /s.
Ah, vegetarians - meat eaters with extra steps. I was one to before I learned about milk and pregnancys and rosters in the egg industry. People that prides themself for begin vegetarian all their life baffels me how clueless they are.
People feel they are ‘doing enough already’, which I really don’t get. If you changed yourself after leaning that these animals have to die for you, why not change again?
Yeah… mind blowing… Some that I have spoken with are born into it. They don’t seem as emotionally invested as someone that realized what your dinner plate causes all this pain and suffering. Its just a way of life for them… without and explanaition why ?
You might be surprised to hear there are other reasons for being vegetarian than animal welfare. Guess vegetarians aren’t the only “clueless” ones…
If your vegan or vegetarian for any other reason than the animals - you can piss off.
How welcoming and inclusive of you
Nope, I stand with the animals - rather alone than with idiots.
I think you’ll find that even alone you might find yourself in the company of idiots
Keep trying meat eater :-)
Meat eater?
Yeah ? Your arguing like a meat eater. Just waiting for “- Mm bacon.”
How clueless…
Vegetarian…