Why are so many vegans in states of homelessness, and what can we do about it?
from Lafari@lemmy.world to vegan@lemmy.world on 13 Aug 2025 08:54
https://lemmy.world/post/34373989

Just want an objective answer to the question, no trolls pls. Appreciate responses from vegans.

#vegan

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Menschlicher_Fehler@feddit.org on 13 Aug 2025 08:56 next collapse

Are they?

Lafari@lemmy.world on 13 Aug 2025 19:22 collapse

Sadly too many are. I think the vegan community should come together and provide homes for these people. They need support.

Menschlicher_Fehler@feddit.org on 13 Aug 2025 19:33 collapse

I understand the sentiment, but I don’t think we should link support or charity to the food a person eats. Especially as being vegan can be quite expensive, depending on where a person lives.

Everyone should have a home or at least shelter, no matter if he is vegan or not.

Lafari@lemmy.world on 18 Aug 13:39 collapse

Guessing you aren’t vegan based on this comment. Veganism isn’t about what someone eats, it’s not a diet but rather an ethical stance against animal exploitation, which extends beyond food into clothing & other products or any other services or activities that someone participates in that might involve animals. A plant-based (animal-free) diet is just one application/implementation that is entailed by veganism.

Having this stance is free, the only thing that costs money is certain practical implementations of the stance. Also, even if the practical implementations most commonly associated with vegans aren’t possible, there’s always a “more vegan” and “less vegan” option that you could choose from, and the vegan action is to choose the option that most closely aligns with vegan/animal rights values. It’s not all or nothing. It’s about doing your best to avoid contributing to or participating in animal exploitation.

In terms of the cost of plant-based diets, they’re generally found to be cheaper on average than diets containing animal products. Here’s one such study ox.ac.uk/…/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-… that found people were able to cut their grocery bills by up to 1/3 by going plant-based, and there are several others finding the same things. Plant-based whole foods are typically the cheapest foods available to buy, and when we look at production costs, it’s even better since animal products are only made affordable by artificial price lowering as a result of how much more government & tax subsidies are disproportionally given to animal agriculture than plant-based foods. Without those bail outs, it wouldn’t be affordable to the average consumer, and as it is, not only is it inherently expensive & inefficient to produce animal products compared to plant-based foods, but it’s also usually more expensive to buy for the end consumer than plant-based foods. This is why wealther nations typically consume far more animal products, and poorer nations - as well as poorer communities within wealther nations - often consume fewer animal products and more plant-based foods. There is a reason why legumes, grains, vegetables etc are often seen as the food of a “poor man’s diet” or “poor people food” - despite them being terrific foods, healthy, nutritious, ethical & sustainable, so it’s a win win that they’re cheap. Plant-based foods have been the staples of quite lower income countries and communities for generations. People often can’t afford to buy meat & animal products, and are plant-based out of necessity of affordability. The people who think plant based diets are expensive are ironically usually wealthier people who haven’t been in a situation where they’ve been forced to buy the cheapest food possible, because if they were they’d know it’d mostly be looking at plant based foods.

One notable exception to this and what often drives the common misconception that plant-based diets are expensive, is the fact that they CAN be if you eat novel plant based mock products or other expensive plant based foods - but you can also buy high-end expensive animal products and they would be the most exorbitant foods you can possibly buy. These plant based products are relatively new and haven’t reached economies of scale yet - not to mention the lack of support from governments compared to animal products, and heavy opposition from the animal agriculture industries, societal misunderstandings/misinformation, etc. In theory, they should be cheaper to buy since they’re cheaper to produce - and eventually they will be if more people buy them, and especially if also fewer people buy animal products - which would eventually become unaffordable if subsidies are removed, which are increasingly harder to justify given increasing environmental costs associated with animal agriculture and other issues threatening the industries. For now, it depends on where you are - regarding novel plant based mock products, not plant based whole foods or other traditional plant based staples like tofu, tempeh, TVP, falafel, seitan etc & ofc starches and other plant based foods - and in some cases plant based meats, plant based cheeses, plant based milks etc have achieved price parity with their animal derived counterparts, or are relatively affordable - sometimes actually cheaper already, especially in parts of Europe. But of course these are not essential products, and it’s perfectly possible for most people to be plant based even if they don’t have access to them.

Now… with all of that aside, which was fairly unrelated to my post, I obviously agree that everyone should have a home who wants one. The fact that plant based foods are usually cheaper as I said is one reason that homeless people often are plant based

Menschlicher_Fehler@feddit.org on 18 Aug 15:14 collapse

I haven’t purchased or (knowingly) consumed an animal product in about three years now and I only buy clothes and shoes that are made in the EU and produced fair. I actually contact companies and ask them where they make their products, if I can’t find that info on their website.

Regarding your statement about communities helping themselves. I am all for that, but how would that practically go down? Let us assume I own an apartment block and I want to rent out a flat to someone. What am I supposed to do if an omni applies? Say “No, you are not living vegan (enough)!”? Because that is what your proposal boils down to.

I will not deny basic human needs, just because someone doesn’t share my ethical views on animals or human labor. Especially if following these views costs money, time and energy. A single mom with two kids won’t have any of those three. They still deserve a home.

Edit: Something that would actually help every homeless person but especially vegan ones is a vegan soup kitchen. Serve everyone, but it is vegan food. That is something I could get behind.

Lafari@lemmy.world on 19 Aug 06:20 collapse

Ok fair enough, I apologize for assuming you weren’t vegan. In my defense, you sounded quite a lot like what non-vegans often say & it seemed like you were echoing their talking points, but you probably didn’t mean it in the same ways, I’m probably just hyper alerted to it based on my experiences with non vegans. I’m also now assuming you are vegan, even though you didn’t explicitly say you are, and I’m interpreting that when you say you don’t purchase or consume animal products, that includes non-food items as well, and that by extension you don’t fund or participate in other forms of animal exploitation either (even if it’s “fair trade” or “ethical” - to humans, by typical speciesist human standards - which is obviously important, and I respect you for doing your due diligence to try to buy products that respect human rights, but imo it must consider non human sentients also). I also do my best to buy products that treat humans ethically, fairly etc. and buy second hand where possible and I’m all for that.

I wasn’t suggesting that we would put out a listing for accommodation and then deny/turn away everyone who wasn’t vegan (which would likely be the majority or entirety of responses, only because of how few vegans there are period in current society). That seems like a silly plan, and yes probably cruel/unethical or at least morally dubious. I didn’t actually propose any specific method of helping them, in fact one of my questions was asking people how they thought we should help them. Unfortunately I didn’t get an answer from anyone to either of my questions (why there is a substantial overlap between vegans [OR plant based eaters, I guess] and homelessness, and what we can do about it), but I guess I kind of answered myself when people challenged me to justify why I even said anything about it in the first place or questioned whether it was a real phenomenon. And regarding strategies of how to help them, I don’t know, but it wouldn’t have to be like you said. For example, That Vegan Teacher, who now lives in Italy, proposed the idea of the “Pods” system, which other vegans such as Taryn4Animals were looking into organizing and developing and implementing in different locations in the US (but ideally it would be a global community effort). She has talked a lot about it and refined and evolved the idea over the years. After determining that it might be difficult to enact the full scope of her idea physically, she has more recently diverted to a digital version of “Pods” which is more of a general support network for vegans and animal rights activists to help & assist & support & uplift each other, promote each other’s content, motivate each other, etc. But the physical version of the concept would involve vegans who own or rent housing and have the ability to accommodate other roommates/housemates etc, promoting the offer specifically to vegans (in vegan/animal rights spaces, so it’s not advertised directly to carnists etc) for them to come and stay in the building(s) or complexes etc and create kind of a vegan safe house of sorts where vegans could provide each other, including homeless vegans, with a place to stay and maybe vegan food to eat, but also drive each other to keep doing activism (that part could easily be removed and the system would still provide a lot of benefit). Also, as much as it’s virtuous and even obligatory in some cases to help others (including both humans and non human sentient beings), I don’t think anyone should be forced to let others into their home especially who they don’t know. It’s almost like the 3rd amendment of the US constitution where no one can be forced to house soldiers in their home during war. And in some cases, vegans are much more likely to trust and be comfortable with someone else who is vegan (for one thing it demonstrates they’re probably a peaceful nonviolent nonthreatening and respectful person given the compassion they show for animals, ofc not always), and to also be willing to live with them, than to have to potentially violate their values (not saying these values are necessarily inherent to veganism, but can accompany it) of not wanting to be involved with or in close proximity to or even seen as potentially enabling in this case, people doing bad things to nonhuman animals (& the environment & humans etc etc) that they’re morally opposed to and repulsed by. They’re also much more easily and practically able to accommodate that person and live compatibly with them if they’re vegan. So can you really blame a vegan for having a spare flat, and wanting to provide it specifically to vegans? Btw, a vegan did this once during the Ukraine war, advertised a spare flat specifically to vegans on Reddit who were in need of sanctuary from the war, I’m not sure that was the best way to go about doing that or best situation to do it in but they did explain the

blimthepixie@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Aug 2025 09:28 next collapse

What are your sources?

Please back up this claim

Lafari@lemmy.world on 13 Aug 2025 19:04 collapse

Just personal experience. I know a lot of homeless vegans. Maybe the proportion isn’t higher than that of non vegans, but I feel like it might be given how few of us there are and how many seem to be homeless or end up homeless.

[deleted] on 13 Aug 2025 09:55 next collapse
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rah@hilariouschaos.com on 13 Aug 2025 14:34 collapse

It’s not clear what you’re asking. What do you mean by “so many vegans”?

Lafari@lemmy.world on 13 Aug 2025 19:14 next collapse

I guess I’m just noticing a trend of a lot of vegans being homeless. I have theories but nothing solid. I think maybe people who face hardship like homelessness are more likely to empathize with other unfortunate individuals like the nonhuman animals that humans kill & exploit. In that case I guess it would be a matter of “why are so many homeless people vegan” rather than vice versa. But I think it’s also unfortunately possible that ethical vegans can end up isolated or struggling socially given how people around us don’t tend to understand our view and it can lead to conflicts or in some cases parting ways with family & friends who we can’t get along with anymore. Luckily that hasn’t been the case for me but I know several vegans for whom that has happened. Also, it’s a counterculture movement of sorts so I think it can tend to attract people who don’t fit into mainstream society and some live unconventional lives or career choices in general. Another real consideration is that some vegans try to pursue a career in animal rights and fail to find proper employment given the limited options, or don’t want to work anywhere that serves animals which rules out a lot of food & hospitality jobs.

rah@hilariouschaos.com on 13 Aug 2025 19:30 collapse

I’m just noticing a trend

Why would you expect an objective answer to a subjective question?

Lafari@lemmy.world on 13 Aug 2025 19:18 collapse

Another fact is plant based food is generally cheaper so its possible homeless people find it easier to become vegan if theyre already used to eating that way