OpenStreetMap as a HappyCow alternative
from bradbeattie@lemmy.ca to vegan@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 03:12
https://lemmy.ca/post/66948687

It’s not a perfect replacement, but searching OpenStreetMap via overpass-turbo.eu with a query like

[out:json][timeout:25];
(
  nwr["diet:vegan"~"yes|only"]({{bbox}});
  nwr["cuisine"~"vegan"]({{bbox}});
);
out geom;

can be useful and is often more up-to-date with respect to restaurants that actually still exist.

An example: overpass-turbo.eu/s/2shI

#vegan

threaded - newest

TheTechnician27@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 04:11 next collapse

So I will say as a contributor to OSM that your coverage is going to vary unbelievably vastly depending on where you are. There are many areas in the US, for instance (in fact, I’d argue most), where HappyCow has an active community but where OSM will be functionally useless and where you’ll have to bootstrap it yourself. Moreover, OSM even given an “ideal” level of maintenance has extremely poor granularity, very minimal standards for what constitutes a restaurant serving a dietary option, poor accessibility (having to issue a JSON query or use something like JOSM, the latter of which I would recommend as easier than Overpass; OpenVegeMap is dead IIRC), no inherent guardrails against outdated information that HappyCow lacks, no community of vegans maintaining it in most places, no reviews, and crucially no real way to express nuance via text (there’s a “note” param, but nobody in their right mind is regularly using it to explain the intricacies of a restaurant’s vegan options; that isn’t why it exists.)

Your example is in Paris, which is – I cannot emphasize enough – wildly unrepresentative of the map’s progress in most places. At least in the US, the average person is entirely better-served by HappyCow than OSM for this specific problem. Picking out Paris specifically is near-best-case for OSM.

I say all this recognizing that HappyCow for me has always also been a noticeably flawed experience.


Edit: As an example even for this near-best-case for OSM, here’s Mannie’s listing on HappyCow. It has three contemporary reviews, the contact, hours, and location info OSM has (OSM even in such a complete area funnily lacks the website:menu param, which the website definitely has; nice for convenience), images of the vegan dishes, an explanation of the veg options, and is overall just a much better, more thorough experience.

Vegetarian mostly plant-powered street food restaurant. Vegan options are clearly labeled and may include “sweet sweet eggplant” (eggplant cooked in miso, chickpea puree, potatoes, tomatoes and garlic roasted in balsamic, marinated zucchini and hazelnuts), in addition to roasted potatoes with paprika and kimchi.

The OSM item tells me vaguely that vegan option(s) exist(s); HappyCow tells me that they’re clearly labeled (massive), that there are multiple of them and what they are, what a vegan thinks of the quality, that there are gluten-free options (I don’t need this, but OSM allows it, yet it’s not there), and what the meals physically look like.


Edit 2: Accidentally duped my comment.

bradbeattie@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 04:29 collapse

My post may well be tainted by my growing frustration with HappyCow growing increasingly out of date in my region. I frequently find restaurants listed that have long since closed and new restaurants not listed at all. But criticism in my workaround and its deficiencies has been wholeheartedly acknowledged and appreciated.

[deleted] on 26 Jun 04:28 next collapse
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lookingforanALFpolycule@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 04:43 next collapse

Yep this is what I do. Changes I suggest to osm are integrated quickly as opposed to never in HappyCow.

I change the filter to vegetarian==only if a region doesn’t have much vegan only places.

TheCornCollector@piefed.zip on 26 Jun 06:35 next collapse

There is an existing OSM based map https://veggiekarte.de/ that also has filtering options. The biggest issue is that OSM doesn’t have much detail on POIs and they’re often out of date. Even in Western Europe where most other stuff is up to date. Mostly because POIs require on the ground surveys which only a handful of contributors can do in more than one region.

So, please consider contributing to OSM using simple apps like StreetComplete or EveryDoor if you have some spare time.

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 15:37 collapse

Thanks for posting. I haven’t used Happy Cow, but I’ve been getting deeper into OSM. I’ll definitely make a custom filter in OsmAnd for this.

As other people have said, the friction seems to be the quality of the data on OSM. Personally I’m trying to update the data of all the veg places by me. If anybody else is interested, here are some resources:

Are there any other recommended fields? I would do hours, toilets, website, etc. Another commenter mentioned website:menu which is awesome but I didn’t even know about it… I’m still kind of n00b.