Do forks of Claude Code make OpenCode completely obsolete?
from Lemmington_Post@discuss.online to programming@programming.dev on 02 Apr 11:13
https://discuss.online/post/37744923

I’ve heard it here at 2:08

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBHRPeg8zPU&t=131

I believe opencode has a more established community and will probably incorporate the improvements from the other projects. What do you think?

#programming

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kaageej@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 11:39 next collapse

Let’s hope not. I have a way better coding experience with OpenCode. Had to switch back to Claude Code after Anthropic blocked the OAuth sign in… I miss OpenCode.

Kissaki@programming.dev on 02 Apr 11:45 next collapse

A code leak doesn’t give a code and product use license. Any project and product use based on the leaked code is less stable and safe than other solid projects under clear terms. OpenCode is not obsolete.

GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 12:11 next collapse

What if you get Claude to implement a brand new codebase, using the leaked code as inspiration and then fix any slop issues?

plateee@piefed.social on 02 Apr 12:34 next collapse

Depending on how you’re taking “inspiration” I’m fairly certain you can get sued if Anthropic feels like it.

Clean room development is there for a reason (although can you use AI in such an effort?)

GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 14:28 collapse

All slop code is stolen anyway, also I am not writing it, I just asked their own AI to have a look at that codebase and implement a brand new app that does exactly what their app does. I am not writing the code, nor did I ever instruct the slop machine to duplicate or steal the code. I would word the prompt in such a way that the whole responsibility of any code copied would be the AI’s fault. Would Anthropic sue themselves for their own AI spitting out copyrighted code? Apparently you don’t have to be an engineer anymore to develop apps either, so I don’t need to review the slop code either, it’s a black box and as long as it does exactly what their app does, I am not responsible, I didn’t write it.

30p87@feddit.org on 02 Apr 22:59 next collapse

The original code is reportedly 100% slop. Slop cannot be copyrighted in the US, and probably any other half-sane country. So double slop is ofc also not licensed.

TerrorBite@pawb.social on 02 Apr 23:28 collapse

This has already been done.

github.com/Kuberwastaken/claurst

They got one AI agent to read the code and output documentation (a specification) that contained no actual code.

Then they fed that to a second AI agent and asked it to implement that specification in Rust. Technically, this is a cleanroom implementation.

This is interesting from a legal perspective because it leverages the same legal loophole that Anthropic rely on for their own operations. They can’t take down this repo without creating a precedent that will be used against them.

misk@piefed.social on 02 Apr 14:13 collapse

What if license and copyright was washed by using an LLM to translate Claude into another language?

Either way, Claude can’t be copyrighted because it’s a product of an LLM.

litchralee@sh.itjust.works on 02 Apr 15:27 next collapse

That is an opinion, but certainly isn’t settled law in any jurisdiction. Indeed, the answer to whether some, all, or none of an LLM’s output is ever copyrightable and under what terms is the billion dollar question.

A project that incorporates code with shaky legal foundation will find it tough to convince others to contribute, if it’s possible one day that their contributions were in vain. The right answer would be to extricate such code upon discovery, like what OpenBSD had to do when the IPFilter license turned out to be incompatible with the project.

misk@piefed.social on 02 Apr 15:42 collapse

It is Anthropic’s whole business model though.

Kissaki@programming.dev on 02 Apr 17:33 next collapse

Claude can’t be copyrighted because it’s a product of an LLM

You claim Claude itself was coded by an LLM (exclusively)?

misk@piefed.social on 02 Apr 19:03 collapse

Anthropic claims that. Sucks for them now, but boy did it do wonders for their marketing.

GamingChairModel@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 23:53 collapse

What if license and copyright was washed by using an LLM to translate Claude into another language?

The law doesn’t allow you to launder copyright like that. That’s just a derivative work, which can be restricted by the copyright holder in the original. As an example, in fictional writing, distinct characters are copyrighted, and using an LLM to generate new works using those copyrighted characters would still be a derivative work that the original copyright owner would have the right to deny distribution.

So if you have a copyrighted codebase and you try to implement that codebase using some kind of transformation of that code, that’d still be a derivative work and infringe the original copyright.

Now if you have some kind of clean room implementation where you can show that it was written without copying the original code itself, only working to implement its functionality through documentation/reverse engineering how the code worked, you’d be able to escape out of calling it a derivative work and could distribute it without the original copyright holder’s permission (Compaq did this with the IBM BIOS to make unauthorized/unlicensed PC clones, and Google did this with the Java API to make Android without a license from Sun/Oracle and won at the Supreme Court).

Claude can’t be copyrighted because it’s a product of an LLM.

No, because Claude’s code is still created by humans with the assistance of non-human tools. There’s a spectrum from spelling correction and tab completion in IDEs all the way to full vibe coding with a prompt describing the raw functionality (where the prompt is so uncreative that it isn’t itself copyrightable). Anthropic has never claimed that there was no human in the loop, or that the prompts it uses are so uncreative and purely functional so that the outputs aren’t copyrightable.

Vipsu@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 12:05 next collapse

I find more interesting in this the fact that since much of Claude source could be generated it might not even be eligble for copyright in many countries.

Another one is if Claude contains code copied from projects they have no license to use.

Hexarei@beehaw.org on 02 Apr 12:13 next collapse

Opencode does way more than Claude Code does

mike_wooskey@lemmy.thewooskeys.com on 02 Apr 14:11 collapse

I use opencode, have seen Claude but never used it. What are some examples of things opencode does that Claude doesn’t?

Hexarei@beehaw.org on 02 Apr 19:53 collapse

The sidebar, in its entirety. Snapshotting/undo-that-also-undoes-filesystem-ops. Web interface. Easy model-swapping and provider selection. Workspaces (can be achieved with Claude Code and git worktrees).

There are probably more but I’m on mobile and can’t think of them off hand.

mike_wooskey@lemmy.thewooskeys.com on 02 Apr 22:20 collapse

Interesting! I’ve seen the sidebar but not thought of much advantage from it. I’ll take another look. Model/provider change is a breeze, I just assumed Claude would do the same but maybe they want to make it harder to leave their models? Workspaces? Sounds interesting - gotta check it out.

I just discovered how easy it is to view/switch sessions in opencode.

eager_eagle@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 12:38 collapse

nope, opencode is better and actually open source