WDYT about GNU
from frankenswine@lemmy.world to programming@programming.dev on 31 May 12:05
https://lemmy.world/post/47574868
from frankenswine@lemmy.world to programming@programming.dev on 31 May 12:05
https://lemmy.world/post/47574868
I’m interested in finding out what people think when they see something GNU. What do you associate with it? Do you tend to be more or less interested in the project if.it is GNU or not? What is your perspective?
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I don’t know much about it. All I know is GNU software is somehow important to how Linux works on the low-level layers.
I generally think of GNU as being foundational (or, old) and principled.
I really appreciate the contributions they’ve made to both core utilities and especially philosophy.
But I don’t see them as lighting up the world or adding anything new lately. I think of vaporware like Hurd with 1000 year dev cycles. I think of them recommending Linux distributions like Trisquel that let perfect be the enemy of pretty good.
To be fair, Hurd recently made a decent splash. And strictly speaking, it’s troubles weren’t specifically GNU. Without all the legal quagmire around BSD we would all be on it. Linux would just be some niche hobby project just like Hurd. It was unfortunately a victim of timing. Both in that sense and the direction computing took in the future. Heavy IPC across multiple discrete CPU cores is a bad idea for performance. It works but it’s slooooow
It did? When? Where?
There were some significant milestones reached in the last year. Trying to find the source I saw. But a quick check implies that it got x86-64-bit support as well as being able to run on bare metal now. Not just virtual machines inside of qemu. Definitely nothing Earth shattering or going to turn the current order on its head. But some solid progress regardless.
i’ve used trisquel on my primary machine at some point in the past, it was hassle free and pretty much just ubuntu
Oh, that’s good to hear! Always had the impression that the blob-free distros caused compatibility headaches, but glad to be wrong I suppose.
Edit: And I should say I didn’t mean to pick on Trisquel in particular, it was just the one GNU recommended distro I remembered by name.
GNU is a trusted quality stamp. Me see GNU, me go GET.
The G in GNU stands for GET after all!
I think of it as being made by one of few really trustworthy organizations in tech.
More trustworthy than Microslop? /s
More trustworthy than Google?
Honestly hard to say. Very much have respect for existing ubiquitous tools and for their copyleft and open source advocacy but they come across as very ‘elitist’ and reluctant to move to more common open source patterns (for better or worse). Like it seems that contributing to a GNU project seems challenging in needing to get involved with mailing lists and emailing patches etc. Although it seems GUIX uses Codeberg so maybe that stance has softened a bit.
Are we talking about the license or about the software collection? GNU is a huge part of Linux operating systems and open source history. I don’t have a problem with GNU and don’t know why anyone would.
Linux is only the kernel for the OS. GNU is most everything else that makes Linux (GNU Linux) an OS.
That’s why I said “GNU is a huge part of Linux operating systems”. Both parts are important for the history of Linux based operating systems.
Oh, I wasn’t arguing. I was clarifying for anyone reading the thread and out of the loop.
I would argue that’s not true anymore and I know where you got that from. Yes at one point GNU was most of the utils one would use in a complete Linux system but today just as much if not more is being done by systemd (but obviously nobody would call it GNU/Systemd/Linux). Yes gnu coreutils and libs are the default on most distros and nano is the most popular text editor but I would argue when people think of what makes Linux what it is today they think of the desktops and window managers (so freedesktop/x11/wayland)
Systemd is more important than GNU.
If its gnu software it probably has integration with emacs
GNU and libre have the highest level of good thoughts when I see them in relation to technology.
It’s going to have terrible UX, a complete pain to build, the contribution process is going to be some git send-email mailing list nonsense, it’s going to expect you to have read the manual (probably in
infojust to be difficult) cover to cover before you even consider using it.But on the other hand it probably has at least decent documentation, it probably works reasonably well, and there’s zero chance of rug pulls, closed source add-ons, etc.
Overall I would say it has negative connotations. If you said “check out this package manager, Fooly”, I’d think “ok might be good, might not”. If you said “check out this package manager, GNU Fooly”, I would say hell no. It’ll be awful.
It’s the software equivalent of books that have “how to read this book” sections.
All in all, we will only have ourselves to blame.
Whatever else it might be, it is definitely not Unix.
Each project has its own reputation. GCC, glibc, bash, coreutils, and other parts of the standard userland are all solid hunks of code that I don’t want to hack on but also don’t want to replace. However, it’s easy to get more specific:
gawk) is pretty good. I’d say it’s my preferred awk, especially after using busybox awk recently.gforth) is awesome if you want that unityped stack-of-cells classic ANS FORTH experience. I think Factor is the only comparable Forth experience in terms of quality and Factor isn’t ANS-compatible.Microkernels project. In development since 1990, with varying activity.
Wikipedia lists six distributions; amongst them Arch, Debian, Gentoo, Guix
Re Guix. It usually boots just fine on standard hardware. Its just the wifi drivers that are widely unsupported. But all of that is solved with like 5 lines of config in a standard place.
When I see that it’s GNU, I can trust in it’s license, and that it’s backed by an org - whether actively maintained and developed or not. My impression is that the sources are not accessible to me, personally, mainly because of legacy tech stack but also they’re typically in C or C++ which is often less approachable, and often they’re Linux-only or -focused.
The GNU label, (if confirmed by the project being on their official websites), gives projects an immediate boost in trustworthiness over random FOSS projects.
I knew GNU coreutils man pages were good because when my Ubuntu got uutils, they became less detailed. Even though they have even less of a reason to be changed than the C->Rust switch.
Good, old, trusted brand. I expect a solid tool. Not modern or with too many features. Just something that does its job well.