Exactly. But people have the idea that Jesus was against money. He wasn't, in fact he lived off money given to him by "women of means," and spoke about how one should give. He was against greed and using G*d like these charlatans. He didn't tell regular people to give it all up, just greedy people, because they worshipped money, which is idolatry, adultery against the their marriage covenant to the father. And that's the issue.
One of the proposed reasons the Romans adopted Christianity was because the church would help collect taxes. For all of the middle ages the church would be one of 3 instances that “run” a state (estates). Taxes were a big part of that job.
That means the answer to your question was just roughly 1700 years ago.
I reject the idea that there is a correct way to read the Bible or worship Jesus. I certainly prefer liberation theology to prosperity Gospel, but I cannot say that one is doing Christianity better than the other.
I used to be Christian and I had all kinds of ideas about what was correct Christianity. I abandoned all that when I realized that those conceptions were much more about me than they were about Jesus or the Bible.
And I think that’s true of the practicing faithful. Some are good, some are wicked, but the difference isn’t in how they read the Bible, it’s who is reading the Bible.
BroBot9000@lemmy.world
on 08 Oct 22:51
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How else are we hey going to pay to shuffle the pedo priests from church to church to evade getting locked up.
Religion is the oldest scam in history.
BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world
on 08 Oct 22:54
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The 1100s is when an Italian merchant made up a story about the “eye of the needle” being a gate in Jerusalem that a camel could juuuuuuust about squeeze through if the owner bowed their head or something.
BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 17:02
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It is, but it’s not any older, which is one of the reasons it’s clearly made up. No one talked about it for over 1000 years then suddenly a guy with something to gain suddenly knows this “fact” about a place he’s never been, and no one else outside of his vicinity can remember it.
Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de
on 08 Oct 22:55
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Ask Martin Luther
SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 08 Oct 23:04
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This reminds me of a very old joke I heard from a zizek lecture I think.
How can we be sure that Judas didn’t really betray Jesus Christ? Whatever one thinks about the Jews, they know the value of the things they sell, so no Jew would have sold a god for mere 30 silver talents!
(I hope this isnt offensive to anyone, although i don’t think theres many religious people on Lemmy)
SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 08 Oct 23:06
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Also.
Two Jewish men pass a Catholic church on which a large poster addresses non-Catholics: “Come to us, accept Catholicism, and you instantly get $30,000 in cash!” While walking away, the two friends become engaged in a debate about whether the offer is meant seriously. A week later, the two friends meet again in front of the same church, and one of them confides to the other: “I still wonder if that offer is serious.” The other replies condescendingly: “Ah you Jews, all you think about is money!”
Let me know if people want this deleted and I’ll do it. Don’t wanna be a provocateur today.
Two beggars are sitting side by side on a street in Rome.
One has a cross in front of him; the other one the Star of David. Many people go by and look at both beggars, but only put money into the hat of the beggar sitting behind the cross.
A priest comes by, stops and watches throngs of people giving money to the beggar behind the cross, but none give to the beggar behind the Star of David.
Finally, the priest goes over to the beggar behind the Star of David and says, “My poor fellow, don’t you understand? This is a Catholic country; this city is the seat of Catholicism. People aren’t going to give you money if you sit there with a Star of David in front of you, especially when you’re sitting beside a beggar who has a cross. In fact, they would probably give to him just out of spite.”
The beggar behind the Star of David listened to the priest, turned to the other beggar with the cross and said: “Moishe, look who’s trying to teach the Goldstein brothers about marketing.”
“Good religious people” aka friends and enablers of pedos.
You are the company you keep. Especially the ones being evangelical about putting their religion into politics and forcing others to live under their dichotomy.
The founder of gateway church getting outed as pedo is the least surprising of the only recent events where once again it’s not the trans or drag queens touching the kids.
Curious how many kids he helped connect to priests via his gateway.
What tans or gay people do in the privacy of their own home is theirs too but that’s not stopping the religious nut jobs from invading that privacy and pushing their cult into the lives of other and politics. You fucking hypocrite.
How about you get off your knees and stop defending the pedos and their fucking cult.
No one who cares about molested kids throw around the word pedophile as much as you do. If anyone is helping pedophiles it’s you. You are trying your damned hardest to blur and obfuscate what a pedophile actually is. You’re out here crying wolf as loud as you can and it’s hurting the victims smugly claim to be worried about. You’re a fool.
Im not connected to any of those people buddy. You can stomp your feet and cry all you want but you can’t force me to believe what you believe. It doesn’t matter how pissy you are about it.
Oohhhh go on Ted Cruz, defend your cults and pedo grooming centres harder dipshit.
Come on. Tell me what’s different when poor old innocent religious people want their privacy for their religion but actively invade the lives of gay and trans people just wanting to live? What about their rights to privacy. Or do you only care about freedom to worship made up shit.
I have no issues with trans people and this whole conversation started because I mentioned I DONT bring it up to people unless they directly ask me.
I don’t invade peoples lives. Maybe Ted Cruz does but I’m not Ted Cruz. Are you Adolph hitler? He hated Jews so you must hate Jews?
Keep defending your genocide I guess.
The truth is the only one trying to force their control on people’s lives here is you. I mentioned I’m religious and you just can’t tolerate that. You made it your mission to force me to stop being religious. You failed, but that’s your goal. To force your believes onto other people. That’s you’re goal, not mine.
Ah one of your lazy go to arguments. That’s your whole “debate” strategy every time lol
I read your comment history. Have you ever had an opinion that wasn’t “I’m angry and fuck you”
Everyone is Ted Cruz to you, everyone’s a Israel supporter, everyone’s a pedophile…
You are an idiot. Just shouting shit at people and declaring them pedophiles isn’t an argument it’s a temper tantrum. Grow up.
And let people enjoy the tv franchises the want. Sorry you don’t like fallout, I don’t care for it either. That doesn’t mean it’s shit. You’re just self absorbed.
And stop posting that stupid damn bean. No one thought it was funny the first time, they aren’t going to laugh the 100th time. Squidbean ain’t taking over lemmy.
Oh look typical religious nutjob wasting his time invading other people lives again.
Go on. Admit you have nothing in response to invading the lives of gay and trans people for your religious gratification. We understand your cult brainwashed you.
Complaining about some two year old bean shitposts.
That’s the cherry on top.
Gosh you religious folk are fucking perverse.
Beahahahahaha fuck off Ai simp. Fucking religious and Ai brainrot. Fucking indoctrinated imbecile.
As if there aren’t pedophiles in non-religious settings like schools or sports or the scouts or youth music or roblox or anywhere else you happen to have places where there’s children.
Fandangalo@lemmy.world
on 08 Oct 23:15
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There are several passages that suggest money & Christianity aren’t aligned. Several passages in Acts talk about the disciples selling everything after Jesus passes and living as a commune with no private property. It says they sold & shared everything together.
There’s the camel & needle proverb. There’s Matthew 25:32. There’s multiple passages that speak of selling what you own and giving it to the poor. There’s Jesus throwing the merchants out in the temple.
When did Christianity become like this? Probably when power saw it could abuse faith, so hundreds/thousands of years ago. Your instinct is great, and you should challenge Christians. I mentioned Matthew 25:32 because it seems so diametrically opposed to what many Christians in power say. We’re supposed to care for the homeless, the immigrant, the prisoner—that’s what this book says.
James 2:15 states that belief is not enough. Belief without works of faith is empty, the same as no faith at all. People telling you they are a Christian while behaving otherwise should be made aware of this passage.
I say this as a Unitarian Universalist. I study the Bible to inform my beliefs, but they are not defined by them. I do think Jesus has been commodified and warped, and the people in power who tell us we’re a Christian nation in the US have lost sight of scripture. They quote the Old Testament and ignore John 13:34.
I also studied all this so when ICE / this government comes for me, I’ll have my receipts. Maybe it won’t matter, but speaking truth to power is important. If so many people believe this book, why do we act like we do? It’s power’s fault, not religion.
Note, I was an atheist for 20 years. I know all about the ills of religion. UU is not like my Catholic Church growing up. If you haven’t been to UU or a Quaker org, it’s worth your time.
It’s a great community and shares a lot with us. More people should know about faith communities doing the good work in the world, rather than swindling their congregations for mega churches with elaborate shows, while telling people “empathy is not Christian.” It’s absurd what’s happening in those congregations right now.
Religion is a set of beliefs, typically in things beyond what we can falsify (hence faith). It’s not inherently powerful to believe people should be treated with respect. A belief in democracy is a belief in giving others equal power to our own (part of my UU faith).
Unitarian Universalism holds very little power in the world. It’s a beautiful faith tradition. Sure, there are powerful religions, but again, that’s power, not religion.
Note Jesus didn't disdain giving alms, but said the poor widow gave more than rich men, who also flaunted giving. Women and orphans were the beneficiaries of these funds as well, I am guessing, as temple upkeep and scribes, priests maybe, etc.
He was enraged at the selling of animals for sacrifice. I can't imagine it was for usurious rates.
You'd have to further research it on sites that specifically address Jewish law, preferably from Aramaic and Jewish translations. I have fur babies hindering me rn
TootSweet@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 00:19
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Most Christians don’t really care what the Bible says, regardless of how much they like to pretend they do.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 09 Oct 06:38
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they dont care, because dont read it at all, or they read and choose a specific passage and forget everything else. i notice thier preaching almost never uses bible verses, its almost always guilt tripping people.
unknown1234_5@kbin.earth
on 09 Oct 02:51
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it became a thing because the catholic church was (still is) actually the leftovers of the roman empire, and acted like an empire as a result (the only reason they dont today is because they no longer have the power to crush nations). this lends false legitimacy to others trying to use Christianity as a platform for personal gain.
Professorozone@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 03:21
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It’s not like the church wants to point those parts out and the followers sure aren’t reading the thing.
Fyrnyx@kbin.melroy.org
on 09 Oct 05:17
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Because religion, particularly Catholicism/Christianity, are giant grifting operations who promise you better positions in heaven by giving money.
Blubber28@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 05:38
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For me the explanation is simple: there is no logic within religion. Note that the bible says to love one another but also says that slavery is OK and that gay men should be stoned. These things conflict with one-another; you cannot be kind if you have slaves and stone other people, and you cannot have slaves and stone people if you are kind. It is physically impossible to follow all the rules in the bible. Many of its followers do not realize this, so their critical thinking skills are either lacking or damaged from all the BibLe gOoD thumping that they received from a young age. And because their critical thinking skills are damaged, many do not realize the obvious problem with giving money when jesus was, according to the book, not condoning this.
6stringringer@lemmy.zip
on 09 Oct 05:45
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These aren’t christians. The money behind jesusism is absurd. I am beyond quite confident that there would be no appreciation in that camp. Aaaaaand the absolute last thing Jesus is gonna wanna do is see a fucking cross.
Are you kidding me?
The fuck is wrong with people.?
A lotta sick fucks ot there for sure.
I’m sure Jesus has better things to do than reminisce about 2,000 some years ago.
I don’t think it was a pleasant experience if’n my history stands correct.
Nibodhika@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 06:32
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Those absolutely are. Just because they don’t fit into your made up subcategory of Christianity that you put yourself into does not mean that’s not what the majority of this religion cult is.
I don’t identify as Christian.
I didn’t make up a sub category.
If one does their research, one can understand how the merging of evangelical Christianity and the republican party has been fusing tighter & tighter together for over 50 years.
Christian nationalism grew exponentially under Reagan in the 80’s.
Unfortunately many of the non evangelical/ nationalist christians are too afraid to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to theological differences.
I believe blanket statements about something as complex as religion as in the previous comment are indicators of a well groomed ignorant public.
Wait a second. It’s a bot. Whatever.
I am not gonna argue with a bot.
You are correct. I am a stupid ignorant fool.
You win.
Are you happy now?
I really hope you are.
Probably a neckbeard, someone with severe mental issues (perhaps well diagnosed).
When one is is severely depressed and unhappy with themselves, they act out in ways that make them feel empowered no matter how sad and bitter they truly are.
What a great forum to let it all out.
I am so glad that you are enlightened.
Is there anything else useful and necessary that you would like to share before I claim this as a W in my book?
Seems like someone has some personal issues that haven’t been dealt with.
I do hope you get the help you need to overcome such angry and hostile views.
I wish you the best and hope you can see that I am a pariah because I am fool enough to believe in grace, hope & even redemption.
I don’t support any religion at all.
In fact, I am a devout Daoist.
It is one of the most woo woo schools of thought out there.
It was the Hippieish esoteric anti belief against Confuscius.
Somewhat similar but coming from waaay different places.
Anyhow, good luck with everything.
You devout nutjobs are so fucking far up your own ass, playing psychologist and calling people neck beards. How fucking original. Take your grace, hope and redemption and shove it with your woo woo bullshit back up into Narnia where that make believe nonsense belongs.
Perhaps reading comprehension isn’t your strongest attribute.
I am only devout to breathing, not being late to the dinner table & Football Sundays.
I believe you are devout in your commitment to misery.
I think religion has been used to manipulate and control people throughout history.
This was a learned concept and those that acquired the power & skills paved the way for the shit show we are experiencing in real time.
I absolutely could not agree any more with that idea.
I’m here to tell you that the nice peace loving hippie folks down at the Unitarian church who are NOT religious nutjobs. They use the church as a way to share and serve in the community. They are not same type of persons as the angry self aggrandizing mean spirited people over at the Megachurch spouting maga bullshit in the name JFC.
That is the point I am trying to make.
Hopefully I have illustrated this idea.
Ima just leave this here.
ComradeMiao@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 06:12
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I mean all churches need funding to run and it comes from their members. Mega churches are another thing, run for money
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 09 Oct 06:34
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when televengicals/megachurchs became a thing. think Joel osteen, kennith copeland. Joel is probably the richest one, because hes been televised for decades.
WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 09 Oct 12:42
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Because there are three forms of power in this world: politics, violence, and money. Every monolithic entity worth its salt tries to get their serving of all three, and money is often the easiest to obtain.
I think that a shiny golden calf will always trick the good into becoming the bad. Trump splashing that gilded gold shit everywhere made him quite successful. /s
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club
on 09 Oct 12:54
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Read up on The Great Awakening in the USA.
You had large parts of the USA without an established church and a lot of religious freedom. So, you had pastors able to preach whatever they wanted without government intervention. This free market Jesus produced a lot of religious diversity. Some pastors used this as an opportunity to turn religion into a business.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 09 Oct 14:34
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It’s always been a business. Even in biblical times. The only time Jesus got violent in the Bible, was when he beat the shit out of the money lenders doing business in the temple.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club
on 09 Oct 15:54
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The question was kind of vague in terms of what part of Christianity he was questioning, but it seems to be focused on how churches currently function. At that point, I figured I’d focus on prosperity gospel for some US churches, which is a uniquely American phenomenon.
To just say “religion has always been like that” may bury understanding on how the current form came into being.
VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 09 Oct 16:03
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Crazy how the only thing to cause the son of God to fly into a violent rage was unfettered capitalism
HubertManne@piefed.social
on 09 Oct 14:45
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“1-877-Kunts-4-Kriste, K-U-N-T Kunts for Kriste, 1-877-Kunts-4-Kriste, Donate your kash today!”
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world
on 09 Oct 15:49
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It’s not mandatory to give donations, and it’s only something well off people should do according to the bible.
Corinthians 9:7 (ESV)
“Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”
But the entire idea of literate people needing a pastor to read them the Bible is already going against their beleifs.
Timothy 2:5 (ESV)
“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Churches are scams that Christians have internalized. They were needed back when nobody could read.
Orginized religion is a control mechanism from old times that we have left lying around for any old con man to take advantage of. Modern Protestant movements have been coopted by grifters.
Wish I had known this when dealing pot in college to pay for college. I would have dropped out and become a preacher.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Oct 13:54
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Since the very beginning. Martin Luther (not King) famously criticized the selling of indulgences to get deceased loved ones out of purgatory and into heaven. “Another coin in the coffer rings, another soul into heaven springs.”
That’s because if you practice from the Scriptures, you don’t become popular. The Scriptures, when you read them and understand what they tell you to do (83 commandments still in effect today, feasts and festivals [not necessarily Jewish ones], the Sabbath [for me, lunar Sabbath], etc.) make you realize that you’ve been fooled big time, and that you need to change yourself.
Jesus was the word of God. As understood by most denominations, Jesus of Nazareth WAS God born as a man, and Jesus rules in Heaven now. (But it gets confusing after that, and agreement drops off.)
Going just off my memory, Jesus said about five things about money:
He chased for-profit money changers out of the temple, who were in effect stealing from the temple and parishioners by insisting a gift of goods or other currencies had to be converted.
He answered a question about if His followers should give taxes to Rome by pointing that Ceasar’s face was on the coin,.and that they should “render to God what was God’s, and render to Ceasar what was Ceasar’s”
He extolled a poor woman’s gift of a few coins as a greater gift than the numerically larger gift from others,.since it was a larger share of the woman’s wealth.
He marked that one cannot “serve two masters” and could either seek wealth for its own sake or serve heaven, but not both.
When a rich man asked what it would take for said rich man to enter Heaven, Jesus told him “sell everything you have and follow me,” at which the rich guy went away sad.
There may well be others, but at no point in the gospels did Jesus forbid commerce or currency, or suggest that it was somehow improper to pool money together to fund a common house of worship.
Some modern self-described Christians are very money focused, to an extent that I’d argue they’ve abandoned.thr gospels like the rich man in that last bit… But Jesus wasn’t ever explicitly against cash.
threaded - newest
Religious people all share one common trait: they’re hypocrites.
Churches still have bills to pay. Just because they are exempt from some taxes doesn’t mean they are bills exempt.
Can’t be close to Jesus without a private jet!
Not all churches are like that. Are there some? Yes. But let’s be real
As long as the people in small responsible churches keep listening to the swindlers on TV, they are still part of the problem.
“Some” yeah ok.
When a neighbor was in the hospital for a week, their small church took $200 from their funds to help them buy groceries.
a televengelist megachurchs almost never does it though, smaller church denominations do that kind of charity.
Exactly. But people have the idea that Jesus was against money. He wasn't, in fact he lived off money given to him by "women of means," and spoke about how one should give. He was against greed and using G*d like these charlatans. He didn't tell regular people to give it all up, just greedy people, because they worshipped money, which is idolatry, adultery against the their marriage covenant to the father. And that's the issue.
That’s just them investing in a new cult member. A business expense.
Religion preys on the poor and needed and makes them morally indebted to them. Just another one of their toxic ways to manipulate people.
It has been this way for decades? It blew up when televangelism became a thing.
Sew your seed!
Pretty sure the Catholic Church was collecting money from across Europe to build oppulent fortresses and cathedrals way earlier than the 50 years ago
Fair, I stand corrected 🙂
One of the proposed reasons the Romans adopted Christianity was because the church would help collect taxes. For all of the middle ages the church would be one of 3 instances that “run” a state (estates). Taxes were a big part of that job.
That means the answer to your question was just roughly 1700 years ago.
I reject the idea that there is a correct way to read the Bible or worship Jesus. I certainly prefer liberation theology to prosperity Gospel, but I cannot say that one is doing Christianity better than the other.
I used to be Christian and I had all kinds of ideas about what was correct Christianity. I abandoned all that when I realized that those conceptions were much more about me than they were about Jesus or the Bible.
And I think that’s true of the practicing faithful. Some are good, some are wicked, but the difference isn’t in how they read the Bible, it’s who is reading the Bible.
How else are we hey going to pay to shuffle the pedo priests from church to church to evade getting locked up.
Religion is the oldest scam in history.
The 1100s is when an Italian merchant made up a story about the “eye of the needle” being a gate in Jerusalem that a camel could juuuuuuust about squeeze through if the owner bowed their head or something.
Is that lie really that old? Goddamn…
It is, but it’s not any older, which is one of the reasons it’s clearly made up. No one talked about it for over 1000 years then suddenly a guy with something to gain suddenly knows this “fact” about a place he’s never been, and no one else outside of his vicinity can remember it.
Ask Martin Luther
This reminds me of a very old joke I heard from a zizek lecture I think.
How can we be sure that Judas didn’t really betray Jesus Christ? Whatever one thinks about the Jews, they know the value of the things they sell, so no Jew would have sold a god for mere 30 silver talents!
(I hope this isnt offensive to anyone, although i don’t think theres many religious people on Lemmy)
Also.
Two Jewish men pass a Catholic church on which a large poster addresses non-Catholics: “Come to us, accept Catholicism, and you instantly get $30,000 in cash!” While walking away, the two friends become engaged in a debate about whether the offer is meant seriously. A week later, the two friends meet again in front of the same church, and one of them confides to the other: “I still wonder if that offer is serious.” The other replies condescendingly: “Ah you Jews, all you think about is money!”
Let me know if people want this deleted and I’ll do it. Don’t wanna be a provocateur today.
Two beggars are sitting side by side on a street in Rome.
One has a cross in front of him; the other one the Star of David. Many people go by and look at both beggars, but only put money into the hat of the beggar sitting behind the cross.
A priest comes by, stops and watches throngs of people giving money to the beggar behind the cross, but none give to the beggar behind the Star of David.
Finally, the priest goes over to the beggar behind the Star of David and says, “My poor fellow, don’t you understand? This is a Catholic country; this city is the seat of Catholicism. People aren’t going to give you money if you sit there with a Star of David in front of you, especially when you’re sitting beside a beggar who has a cross. In fact, they would probably give to him just out of spite.”
The beggar behind the Star of David listened to the priest, turned to the other beggar with the cross and said: “Moishe, look who’s trying to teach the Goldstein brothers about marketing.”
Good religious people generally keep it to themselves unless specifically asked lol.
“Good religious people” aka friends and enablers of pedos.
You are the company you keep. Especially the ones being evangelical about putting their religion into politics and forcing others to live under their dichotomy.
You don’t give a crap about children or stopping pedophiles. You just need a blanket you can throw over everyone so you have a reason to be MAD. lol
Otherwise it’s hard to point at someone enjoying religion privately to themselves and say “that guy need to stop”
Get a life weirdo. You can’t just shout pedophile every time you don’t like something.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c13b47a9-4bc2-48a7-8edd-3a9475efe379.jpeg">
The founder of gateway church getting outed as pedo is the least surprising of the only recent events where once again it’s not the trans or drag queens touching the kids.
Curious how many kids he helped connect to priests via his gateway.
What tans or gay people do in the privacy of their own home is theirs too but that’s not stopping the religious nut jobs from invading that privacy and pushing their cult into the lives of other and politics. You fucking hypocrite.
How about you get off your knees and stop defending the pedos and their fucking cult.
No one who cares about molested kids throw around the word pedophile as much as you do. If anyone is helping pedophiles it’s you. You are trying your damned hardest to blur and obfuscate what a pedophile actually is. You’re out here crying wolf as loud as you can and it’s hurting the victims smugly claim to be worried about. You’re a fool.
Im not connected to any of those people buddy. You can stomp your feet and cry all you want but you can’t force me to believe what you believe. It doesn’t matter how pissy you are about it.
Oohhhh go on Ted Cruz, defend your cults and pedo grooming centres harder dipshit.
Come on. Tell me what’s different when poor old innocent religious people want their privacy for their religion but actively invade the lives of gay and trans people just wanting to live? What about their rights to privacy. Or do you only care about freedom to worship made up shit.
You hypocritical buffoon.
So all you do is strawman arguments? Cool.
I have no issues with trans people and this whole conversation started because I mentioned I DONT bring it up to people unless they directly ask me.
I don’t invade peoples lives. Maybe Ted Cruz does but I’m not Ted Cruz. Are you Adolph hitler? He hated Jews so you must hate Jews?
Keep defending your genocide I guess.
The truth is the only one trying to force their control on people’s lives here is you. I mentioned I’m religious and you just can’t tolerate that. You made it your mission to force me to stop being religious. You failed, but that’s your goal. To force your believes onto other people. That’s you’re goal, not mine.
Cute coming from you ,someone clearly supporting of what Israel is doing right now.
Ah one of your lazy go to arguments. That’s your whole “debate” strategy every time lol
I read your comment history. Have you ever had an opinion that wasn’t “I’m angry and fuck you”
Everyone is Ted Cruz to you, everyone’s a Israel supporter, everyone’s a pedophile…
You are an idiot. Just shouting shit at people and declaring them pedophiles isn’t an argument it’s a temper tantrum. Grow up.
And let people enjoy the tv franchises the want. Sorry you don’t like fallout, I don’t care for it either. That doesn’t mean it’s shit. You’re just self absorbed.
And stop posting that stupid damn bean. No one thought it was funny the first time, they aren’t going to laugh the 100th time. Squidbean ain’t taking over lemmy.
Get a real personality.
Oh look typical religious nutjob wasting his time invading other people lives again.
Go on. Admit you have nothing in response to invading the lives of gay and trans people for your religious gratification. We understand your cult brainwashed you.
Complaining about some two year old bean shitposts. That’s the cherry on top. Gosh you religious folk are fucking perverse.
Beahahahahaha fuck off Ai simp. Fucking religious and Ai brainrot. Fucking indoctrinated imbecile.
Yeah you also call people AI a lot too. I think I’ve exhausted the dialogue options of this npc
Oh how precious. The religious Ai simps do come up with the most original attempts to dehumanize.
Go ask your chatbotGF about places you can sodomize children in the name of your cult leader. 😘
As if there aren’t pedophiles in non-religious settings like schools or sports or the scouts or youth music or roblox or anywhere else you happen to have places where there’s children.
This is extremely xenophobic.
There are several passages that suggest money & Christianity aren’t aligned. Several passages in Acts talk about the disciples selling everything after Jesus passes and living as a commune with no private property. It says they sold & shared everything together.
There’s the camel & needle proverb. There’s Matthew 25:32. There’s multiple passages that speak of selling what you own and giving it to the poor. There’s Jesus throwing the merchants out in the temple.
When did Christianity become like this? Probably when power saw it could abuse faith, so hundreds/thousands of years ago. Your instinct is great, and you should challenge Christians. I mentioned Matthew 25:32 because it seems so diametrically opposed to what many Christians in power say. We’re supposed to care for the homeless, the immigrant, the prisoner—that’s what this book says.
James 2:15 states that belief is not enough. Belief without works of faith is empty, the same as no faith at all. People telling you they are a Christian while behaving otherwise should be made aware of this passage.
I say this as a Unitarian Universalist. I study the Bible to inform my beliefs, but they are not defined by them. I do think Jesus has been commodified and warped, and the people in power who tell us we’re a Christian nation in the US have lost sight of scripture. They quote the Old Testament and ignore John 13:34.
I also studied all this so when ICE / this government comes for me, I’ll have my receipts. Maybe it won’t matter, but speaking truth to power is important. If so many people believe this book, why do we act like we do? It’s power’s fault, not religion.
Note, I was an atheist for 20 years. I know all about the ills of religion. UU is not like my Catholic Church growing up. If you haven’t been to UU or a Quaker org, it’s worth your time.
I appreciate seeing the Quaker love on Lemmy! (UUs are awesome too, in my experience!)
It’s a great community and shares a lot with us. More people should know about faith communities doing the good work in the world, rather than swindling their congregations for mega churches with elaborate shows, while telling people “empathy is not Christian.” It’s absurd what’s happening in those congregations right now.
I was with you until this.
Religion is a set of beliefs, typically in things beyond what we can falsify (hence faith). It’s not inherently powerful to believe people should be treated with respect. A belief in democracy is a belief in giving others equal power to our own (part of my UU faith).
Unitarian Universalism holds very little power in the world. It’s a beautiful faith tradition. Sure, there are powerful religions, but again, that’s power, not religion.
i have never heard of that. Which doesn't mean much as there are thousands of differet christian churches and they disagree on many things.
I mean I grew up with the tammy fay baker stuff so way before my time and im old.
Note Jesus didn't disdain giving alms, but said the poor widow gave more than rich men, who also flaunted giving. Women and orphans were the beneficiaries of these funds as well, I am guessing, as temple upkeep and scribes, priests maybe, etc.
He was enraged at the selling of animals for sacrifice. I can't imagine it was for usurious rates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple#:~:text=Dove%20sellers%20were%20selling%20doves,would%20have%20disrupted%20all%20commerce.
You'd have to further research it on sites that specifically address Jewish law, preferably from Aramaic and Jewish translations. I have fur babies hindering me rn
Most Christians don’t really care what the Bible says, regardless of how much they like to pretend they do.
they dont care, because dont read it at all, or they read and choose a specific passage and forget everything else. i notice thier preaching almost never uses bible verses, its almost always guilt tripping people.
it became a thing because the catholic church was (still is) actually the leftovers of the roman empire, and acted like an empire as a result (the only reason they dont today is because they no longer have the power to crush nations). this lends false legitimacy to others trying to use Christianity as a platform for personal gain.
It’s not like the church wants to point those parts out and the followers sure aren’t reading the thing.
Because religion, particularly Catholicism/Christianity, are giant grifting operations who promise you better positions in heaven by giving money.
For me the explanation is simple: there is no logic within religion. Note that the bible says to love one another but also says that slavery is OK and that gay men should be stoned. These things conflict with one-another; you cannot be kind if you have slaves and stone other people, and you cannot have slaves and stone people if you are kind. It is physically impossible to follow all the rules in the bible. Many of its followers do not realize this, so their critical thinking skills are either lacking or damaged from all the BibLe gOoD thumping that they received from a young age. And because their critical thinking skills are damaged, many do not realize the obvious problem with giving money when jesus was, according to the book, not condoning this.
These aren’t christians. The money behind jesusism is absurd. I am beyond quite confident that there would be no appreciation in that camp. Aaaaaand the absolute last thing Jesus is gonna wanna do is see a fucking cross. Are you kidding me? The fuck is wrong with people.? A lotta sick fucks ot there for sure. I’m sure Jesus has better things to do than reminisce about 2,000 some years ago. I don’t think it was a pleasant experience if’n my history stands correct.
www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2008-11-24
Why couldn’t we have just done this in the first place?
They absolutely are.
Those absolutely are. Just because they don’t fit into your made up subcategory of Christianity that you put yourself into does not mean that’s not what the majority of this religion cult is.
I don’t identify as Christian. I didn’t make up a sub category. If one does their research, one can understand how the merging of evangelical Christianity and the republican party has been fusing tighter & tighter together for over 50 years. Christian nationalism grew exponentially under Reagan in the 80’s. Unfortunately many of the non evangelical/ nationalist christians are too afraid to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to theological differences. I believe blanket statements about something as complex as religion as in the previous comment are indicators of a well groomed ignorant public. Wait a second. It’s a bot. Whatever.
Until they grow a pair and separate themselves from the cults they are a part of then yes they still are Christians and friends and enablers of pedos.
Religion is the largest source of ignorance and grooming that they blame on gay and trans people.
Sunday schools are grooming centres for the people in charge like Robert Morris
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1788090f-d4d0-4dd6-b49d-d94f1c144e63.jpeg"> Oh look, it’s not a gay or trans person?!? It’s the church, again! What like the 700th time this year?!
How about you get off your knees and stop defending the pedos.
My username is a DBZA reference if you’re not just using your ignorance as an excuse like a good religious sheep.
I am not gonna argue with a bot. You are correct. I am a stupid ignorant fool. You win. Are you happy now? I really hope you are. Probably a neckbeard, someone with severe mental issues (perhaps well diagnosed). When one is is severely depressed and unhappy with themselves, they act out in ways that make them feel empowered no matter how sad and bitter they truly are. What a great forum to let it all out. I am so glad that you are enlightened. Is there anything else useful and necessary that you would like to share before I claim this as a W in my book? Seems like someone has some personal issues that haven’t been dealt with. I do hope you get the help you need to overcome such angry and hostile views. I wish you the best and hope you can see that I am a pariah because I am fool enough to believe in grace, hope & even redemption. I don’t support any religion at all. In fact, I am a devout Daoist. It is one of the most woo woo schools of thought out there. It was the Hippieish esoteric anti belief against Confuscius. Somewhat similar but coming from waaay different places. Anyhow, good luck with everything.
Bwahahaha lotta words for not arguing with a bot.
You devout nutjobs are so fucking far up your own ass, playing psychologist and calling people neck beards. How fucking original. Take your grace, hope and redemption and shove it with your woo woo bullshit back up into Narnia where that make believe nonsense belongs.
Please don’t procreate or vote. Thank you 😘
Perhaps reading comprehension isn’t your strongest attribute. I am only devout to breathing, not being late to the dinner table & Football Sundays. I believe you are devout in your commitment to misery. I think religion has been used to manipulate and control people throughout history. This was a learned concept and those that acquired the power & skills paved the way for the shit show we are experiencing in real time. I absolutely could not agree any more with that idea. I’m here to tell you that the nice peace loving hippie folks down at the Unitarian church who are NOT religious nutjobs. They use the church as a way to share and serve in the community. They are not same type of persons as the angry self aggrandizing mean spirited people over at the Megachurch spouting maga bullshit in the name JFC. That is the point I am trying to make. Hopefully I have illustrated this idea. Ima just leave this here.
I mean all churches need funding to run and it comes from their members. Mega churches are another thing, run for money
when televengicals/megachurchs became a thing. think Joel osteen, kennith copeland. Joel is probably the richest one, because hes been televised for decades.
Literal centuries before that, there were indulgences.
They pick and choose what they want to follow. Treating everyone kindly, and with humanity? Nah, no way. Slavery? Sure, have at it.
Plus, most of them didn’t even read the bible anyway.
Religions a grift, this fits that ethos.
Because there are three forms of power in this world: politics, violence, and money. Every monolithic entity worth its salt tries to get their serving of all three, and money is often the easiest to obtain.
I’d add sex in there. Seriously.
I think that a shiny golden calf will always trick the good into becoming the bad. Trump splashing that gilded gold shit everywhere made him quite successful. /s
Read up on The Great Awakening in the USA.
You had large parts of the USA without an established church and a lot of religious freedom. So, you had pastors able to preach whatever they wanted without government intervention. This free market Jesus produced a lot of religious diversity. Some pastors used this as an opportunity to turn religion into a business.
It’s always been a business. Even in biblical times. The only time Jesus got violent in the Bible, was when he beat the shit out of the money lenders doing business in the temple.
The question was kind of vague in terms of what part of Christianity he was questioning, but it seems to be focused on how churches currently function. At that point, I figured I’d focus on prosperity gospel for some US churches, which is a uniquely American phenomenon.
To just say “religion has always been like that” may bury understanding on how the current form came into being.
Crazy how the only thing to cause the son of God to fly into a violent rage was unfettered capitalism
He also killed a fig tree for not having any figs on it.
This is also perfectly understandable.
The documentary Marjoe is a really good exploration of this. Former child preacher who stopped believing, and invites a documentary crew as he does a tour.
It’s in the public domain - they forget to register it, so you should be able to find the full movie online.
basically Mormons.
They are a small part of the overall movement.
“1-877-Kunts-4-Kriste, K-U-N-T Kunts for Kriste, 1-877-Kunts-4-Kriste, Donate your kash today!”
It’s not mandatory to give donations, and it’s only something well off people should do according to the bible.
But the entire idea of literate people needing a pastor to read them the Bible is already going against their beleifs.
Churches are scams that Christians have internalized. They were needed back when nobody could read.
Orginized religion is a control mechanism from old times that we have left lying around for any old con man to take advantage of. Modern Protestant movements have been coopted by grifters.
Wish I had known this when dealing pot in college to pay for college. I would have dropped out and become a preacher.
Since the very beginning. Martin Luther (not King) famously criticized the selling of indulgences to get deceased loved ones out of purgatory and into heaven. “Another coin in the coffer rings, another soul into heaven springs.”
Martin Luther was more than 1000 years after the start of Christianity. Heck, he may have been 1000 years from the conversion of Rome.
That’s because if you practice from the Scriptures, you don’t become popular. The Scriptures, when you read them and understand what they tell you to do (83 commandments still in effect today, feasts and festivals [not necessarily Jewish ones], the Sabbath [for me, lunar Sabbath], etc.) make you realize that you’ve been fooled big time, and that you need to change yourself.
Jesus was the word of God. As understood by most denominations, Jesus of Nazareth WAS God born as a man, and Jesus rules in Heaven now. (But it gets confusing after that, and agreement drops off.)
Going just off my memory, Jesus said about five things about money:
He chased for-profit money changers out of the temple, who were in effect stealing from the temple and parishioners by insisting a gift of goods or other currencies had to be converted.
He answered a question about if His followers should give taxes to Rome by pointing that Ceasar’s face was on the coin,.and that they should “render to God what was God’s, and render to Ceasar what was Ceasar’s”
He extolled a poor woman’s gift of a few coins as a greater gift than the numerically larger gift from others,.since it was a larger share of the woman’s wealth.
He marked that one cannot “serve two masters” and could either seek wealth for its own sake or serve heaven, but not both.
When a rich man asked what it would take for said rich man to enter Heaven, Jesus told him “sell everything you have and follow me,” at which the rich guy went away sad.
There may well be others, but at no point in the gospels did Jesus forbid commerce or currency, or suggest that it was somehow improper to pool money together to fund a common house of worship.
Some modern self-described Christians are very money focused, to an extent that I’d argue they’ve abandoned.thr gospels like the rich man in that last bit… But Jesus wasn’t ever explicitly against cash.