Does each country have a book/library of the laws of the land that a commoner can consult to check if they're about to do something illegal?
from 58008@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 17 Dec 19:46
https://lemmy.world/post/40341234
from 58008@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 17 Dec 19:46
https://lemmy.world/post/40341234
For example, is there a ‘laws dot gov’ kinda URL I can go to and type “importing raccoons to Northern Ireland to create a self-sustaining population” into the search bar?
Or maybe something like a multi-volume book series I can check at the library to see if “raccoon husbandry; N. Ireland” is mentioned?
Maybe an AI chatbot on the local council’s website that I can ask “is it legal to raise baby raccoons by feeding them from miniature wheelie bins to teach them where food comes from and how to open the lids”?
I’m not about to do anything [potentially] illegal, I’m just curious.
Cheers! 🦝
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I would be surprised if there was a country that don’t have their all laws set in the paper form.
But, regarding Finland: You’re thinking of http://finlex.fi .
There’s for example this gem, telling about how you should take care of the hops trellis the law requires you to maintain! :)
(Please don’t tell anyone, but I do not actually have a hops trellis! I’m breaking the law.)
It’s also helpful if you want to know how to let your pigs to run in an acorn forest. Or if your bees escape and land inside someone else’s tree.
Also, the beginning words of our Criminal Code are a bit, well, outdated? Here goes: https://www.finlex.fi/en/legislation/1889/39-001?language=swe&highlightId=798156&highlightParams=%7B%22type%22%3A%22BASIC%22%2C%22search%22%3A%22rikoslaki%22%7D
(I’m linking the Swedish-language versions because I believe a machine translator does a better job translating to European languages from Swedish than from Finnish)
The anglosaxon school of law is more case-based than build on written law like e.g. in continental Europe.
In high school I worked at the police station for one summer. There was a huge book that had a ton of laws in it. I remember me and the other kid who worked there would read through it.
This is amazing. Somewhere in the back of my head I knew that you still had the old Criminal Code left, but never had I read it. Here in Sweden we have since swapped that one for a hopefully less outdated law. Here is a English translation for those interested:
(That’s a machine translation, I couldn’t be bothered to do it myself. But I must say I’m impressed of how well it handled the very old school Swedish)
Also, regarding the other law, byggningabalken or Rakennuskaari, we apparently removed the really funny section about the mandatory ownership of a hops trellis in 1860 here in Swede. To bad really. But the rest of that law still applies here. Also, on behalf of the Finnish state I would like to charge you a fine of one riksdal for not maintaining your hops trellis the last year.
And finally, in regards to OPs question, in Sweden we have the official government site www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-och-lagar/ and then lagen.nu which is a bit more user friendly
I fumbles into a rabbit hole. Both of those laws are from 1736, which I have heard before. But apparently, the trade code from that year is also still in effect. It isn’t nearly as funny (although I didn’t check the Finnish version that thoroughly, so there might be some gems there that I missed) but there are some highlights:
Chapter 14 is titled “About Mercenary” (at least that’s how I interpret “Om legohjon”) but the chapter is left completely empty. They chapter is completely removed in the Finnish version.
Also, there is chapter 3 about what one shall do to receive the right to trade and become a part of the burgher class. Removed in Finland
Finally, you may not use boats, shipyards or aircraft in a pledge (is that correct English?). This is revised in the Finnish version, and the same prohibition doesn’t exist there. This is chapter 10 § 7 for those interested
In the US, no. This is why lawyers get paid so much money to research and analyze whether their clients’ activities may or may not be legal. For many areas of the law, relevant statutes, regulations, and agency interpretations are publicly available and may be compiled and discussed at a high level in a treatise. However, a specific question or set of facts (such as raccoon husbandry in a specific location) would require research or analysis beyond what a treatise might describe. And treatises are expensive, full of legal jargon, and usually not publicly available. Welcome to the Law!
Isn’t that partly because the US has like 52 sets of law (50 states, DC, Fed) and maybe more (County/Parish, etc)?
Yep. But when two laws are in conflict, the higher law wins. So state laws supersede local laws, and federal laws beat state laws. Of course, there is also weirdness where the higher body might just choose not to argue with the lower body over conflicting laws, like with cannabis legalization.
Reminder that marijuana is still federally illegal.
If you are a non-citizen, you could get deported for posession of marijuana, even if your state “legalized” it, because it would still be a crime under federal laws.
So, pro tip: gain citizenship first, then, after you’ve been sworn in and got the citizenship papers, then you can safely smoke weed…
(Yes, people do get placed into deportation proceedings for possession weed, especially under this current shitty administration)
Oh yeah, definitely! Even in legal states, if you’re on federal property (like National Forests), possession is still a crime. Gotta be careful with stuff like that
I meant that they aren’t arguing over it as in the DOJ isn’t suing states over having legalized it. Although if I recall correctly, the Obama admin DEA did conduct raids on medicinal dispensaries in states where it was legal
It gets weird and messy fast
The UK has www.legislation.gov.uk
It only covers statute law, not common law, but most things are codified by statute today.
Women: exists
Taliban: “Wait, that’s illegal”
France, here is what I found:
Code civil and code pénal. I’m not a lawyer but code civil should be for small stuff where you have to agree on something or pay a fine, and code pénal for big stuff like killings and shit and you can go to prison.
There is also a “code de la route” which is another bonus on how to behave in the road.
But it’s France and I’m sure there are a billion other papers like those, but those 3 (civil, pénal, and route) are the most famous.
Edit: there was supposedly a project to put the laws in source form, and maybe a DSL for the tax law, here is is an example: data.gouv.fr/…/les-lois-francaises-versionnees-av…, and taxes mlanguage.github.io/mlang/mlang/index.html
Certainly, most civilized countries offer this, eg in Germany: recht.bund.de or dejure.org. You can also find it on Amazon Netherlands: Je vindt het Nederlandse wetboek en alle actuele wet- en regelgeving gratis en officieel online op
wetten.overheid.n
From the wiki article on Public.Resource.Org:
Going to a law library and asking a librarian should help you get information. They get asked oddball questions often so no judgement.
Not sure why people are saying the laws aren’t accessible in America
Here’s the entire federal code of laws
www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text
Here’s the federal rules and regulations
www.ecfr.gov
Here’s a repository of every state’s laws
law.justia.com/codes/
Yes, they're there. Good luck finding what you want to find.
lawyers use Google before anything else. If you’re wondering if what you’re doing is illegal you probably can just look it up and find a decent enough answer
You’re not wrong that most statutory legislation is freely and readily available, but determining if an act is illegal in a practical sense requires looking at case law too.
Depending on what domain we’re talking about, technical legislation also often references paywalled documents. E.g., I work in biomed R&D, and the FDA regulations for medical devices are tied to pay-to-play ISO standards.
I know Canada has the Canadian Criminal Code. My friend had a copy for college and I leafed through it once to read some laws about weapons. It’s all in one big book so it is relatively accessible to find stuff but it obviously doesn’t cover traffic law, provincial, or municipal laws.
laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/
www.ontario.ca/laws
www.toronto.ca/legdocs/bylaws/lawhome.htm
Directly answering the question: no, not every country has such a consolidated library that enumerates all the laws of that country. And for reasons, I suspect no such library could ever exist in any real-life country.
I do like this question, and it warrants further discussion about laws (and rules, and norms), how they’re enacted and enforced, and how different jurisdictions apply the procedural machine that is their body of law.
To start, I will be writing from a California/USA perspective, with side-quests into general Anglo-American concepts. That said, the continental European system of civil law also provides good contrast for how similar yet different the “law” can be. Going further abroad will yield even more distinctions, but I only have so much space in a Lemmy comment.
The first question to examine is: what is the point of having laws? Some valid (and often overlapping) answers:
From these various intentions, we might be inclined to think that “the law” should be some sort of all-encompassing tome that necessarily specifies all aspects of human life, not unlike an ISO standard. But that is only one possible way to meet the goals of “the law”. If instead, we had a book of “principles” and those principles were the law, then applying those principles to scenarios would yield similar result. That said, exactly how a principle like “do no harm” is applied to “whether pineapple belongs on pizza” is not as clear-cut as one might want “the law” to be. Indeed, it is precisely the intersection of all these objectives for “the law” that makes it so complicated. And that’s even before we look at unwritten laws.
The next question would be: are all laws written down? In the 21st Century, in most jurisdictions, the grand majority of new laws are recorded as written statutes. But just because it’s written down doesn’t mean it’s very specific. This is the same issue from earlier with having “principles” as law: what exactly does the USA Constitution’s First Amendment mean by “respecting an establishment of religion”, to use an example. But by not micromanaging every single detail of daily life, a document that starts with principles and is then refined by statute law, that’s going to be a lot more flexible over the centuries. For better/worse, the USA Constitution encodes mostly principles and some hard rules, but otherwise leaves a lot of details left for Congress to fill in.
Flexibility is sometimes a benefit for a system of law, although it also opens the door for abuse. For example, I recall a case from the UK many years ago, where crown prosecutors in London had a tough time finding which laws could be used to prosecute a cyclist that injured a pedestrian. As it turned out, because of the way that vehicular laws were passed in the 20th Century, all the laws on “road injuries” basically required the use of an automobile, and so that meant there was a hole in the law, when it came to charging bicyclists. They ended up charging the cyclist with the criminal offense of “furious driving”, which dated back to an 1860s statute, which criminalized operating on the public road with “fury” (aka intense anger).
One could say that the law was abused, because such an old statute shouldn’t be used to apply to modern-day circumstances. That said, the bicycle was invented in the 1820s or 1830s. But one could also say that having a catch-all law is important to make sure the law doesn’t have any holes.
Returning to American law, it’s important to note that when there is non-specific law, it is up to the legislative body to fill those gaps. But for the same flexibility reasons, Congress or the state or tribal legislatures might want to confer some flexibility on how certain laws are applied. They can imbue “discretion” upon an agency (eg USA Department of Commerce) or to a court (eg Superior Court of California). At other times, they write the law so that “good judgement” must be exercised.
As those terms are used, discretion more-or-less means having a free choice, where either is acceptable but try to keep within reasonable guidelines. Whereas “good judgement” means the guidelines are enforced and there’s much less wiggle-room for arbitraryness. And confusingly so, sometimes there’s both a component of discretion and judgment, which usually means Congress really didn’t know what else to write.
So
So generally the national laws are well documented as to what’s a crime and what’s not. Often there’s a website.
Civil vs. Common law jurisdiction matters a fair bit. (As a gross simplification), in a civil law country that text is supposed to be the be-all end-all, judges are supposed to interpret cases based on whether the text of the law was followed or not and use their own discretion on whether past decisions should influence an active case. In common law jurisdictions, precedence from past cases matter a lot, and those decisions are cited by lawyers to say why it should be the same judgment or reasons why this case is different than previous to judge differently.
Then you have sub-national (state, province, prefecture) laws. Those will be well defined but their free availability from an official source online may vary.
Local by-laws will also depend on the location, they have less money so it may not be readily available digitally.
Some governments delegate rulemaking in specific areas, industries or fields to an internal ministry/department, to a professional body (engineers, doctors, lawyers etc.), or an organization (HOA, non profits). They are usually authorized by the law to set, modify, and enforce rules in that specialized area, with a maximum penalty they are permitted to give out for infractions.
So there’s no book of all rules everywhere that can be searched that apply to a specific area.
Switzerland has Fedlex. For example here's the constitution.
New Zealand here. Yes, public libraries have the many volumes of the legal code in the reference section.