What does dying from all causes mean?
from Kintarian@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 22:21
https://lemmy.world/post/19128635

In some studies, at the end of them, I see:

“quitting smoking reduces your chance of dying from all causes.”

So if I quit smoking I’m less likely to get hit by a bus?

#nostupidquestions

threaded - newest

johnefrancis@lemmy.ca on 27 Aug 22:24 next collapse

from every possible thing that can happen to you while smoking…

cancer while smoking COVID while smoking caught in fascist riots while smoking hit by bus while smoking bear attack while smoking container dropped from a plane while smoking etc

Smoking puts you out in the world which increases a lot of risks you wouldn’t otherwise have.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:12 collapse

I’d hate to get attacked by a smoking bear 🐻

Ok, I get it. I don’t smoke or attend fascist parties so I’m good for awhile, maybe.

Thanks.

adespoton@lemmy.ca on 27 Aug 23:25 collapse

Do whatever you can to prevent forest fires and you have nothing to fear from Smoky the Bear.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:18 collapse

You have to watch out for him. He’ll wap you with that shovel!

norimee@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 22:32 next collapse

As a former ICU nurse I can tell you that someone who has been taking good care of their body, is fit and healthy, has a better chance of survival and less complications while recovering as someone who didn’t. No matter the injury.

If you get hit by a bus and your lung is compromised it has a harder time compensating for the injury if it was already damaged.

So yes. You might have a better chance to survive a car crash if you haven’t been smoking.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:09 next collapse

That’s interesting. I hadn’t thought of that. Thanks.

Lauchs@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:27 next collapse

Wild and well put, thanks!

philpo@feddit.org on 28 Aug 00:06 next collapse

Yeah. Came here to write exactly this.

What OP misunderstood is the old tale of mortality vs. lethality.

In a simplified explanation: Mortality defines the percentage of deaths in a population by a cause.

Lethality is the percentage of deaths of people suffering from a cause.

In our case:

  • Smokers might only get hit by a bus slightly less often or slightly more often(1) (Mortality)

  • But they have a far greater chance of dying from it when they get hit. The same can be said for being shot,etc. Being a smoker always reduces your statistical chances.

(1:Actually quite fascinating - there is conflicting evidence on that one, as smoking is often statistically associated with substance abuse and bad health - which increases the likelihood of major trauma events, but on the other hand smokers die earlier,leaving more old people to walk in front of vehicles due to reduced cognitive abilities)

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:09 next collapse

We must do something about all these old people getting run over by buses.

AA5B@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:52 next collapse

Free cigarettes! Should help reduce the number of old people getting run over by buses

hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:56 next collapse

Less busses, more big trucks. Truck-Chan will isekai them safely.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:59 collapse

I wonder what happens when the truck driver and the old person both smoke. Does that cancel them out? 🤔

hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 03:04 next collapse

Quick maffs.

KittenBiscuits@lemm.ee on 28 Aug 03:32 collapse

Puff, puff, pass away

philpo@feddit.org on 28 Aug 17:37 collapse

Indeed is major trauma (which getting run over by a bus is a euphemism for) a much overlooked concern for older people (especially “the younger” old people, which are between 60-75).

Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 29 Aug 14:35 collapse

smoking is often statistically associated with substance abuse and bad health - which increases the likelihood of major trauma events, but on the other hand smokers die earlier,leaving more old people to walk in front of vehicles due to reduced cognitive abilities)

So what about if we control for age? Are old smokers more or less likely to get hit by a bus than old non-smokers?

Quick, someone do an RCT.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 00:27 collapse

You might have a better chance to survive a car crash if you haven’t been smoking.

That’s probably why I’ve survived so many car crashes.

meekah@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 16:52 next collapse

It sounds a bit like your poor driving is the cause for you to survive so many car crashes.

Feathercrown@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 17:02 collapse

But not poor enough to cause any fatal crashes. There’s a driving skill sweet spot where you have maximum crash survival.

fubbernuckin@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 19:31 collapse

You can have one fatal crash. As a treat.

meekah@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 08:21 collapse

OP: mom, can we have a fatal crash?

OP’s mom: we have fatal crash at home

Fatal crash at home: idk where I’m going with this

Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 01:22 collapse

There’s your problem. I haven’t survived a car crash since I started smoking!

Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 29 Aug 14:32 collapse

I’ve never survived being hit by a bus, and I don’t smoke. Checkmate, atheists.

jordanlund@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 22:33 next collapse

Let’s say you’re a smoker and your workplace says you have to go outside to smoke.

It’s the middle of November, it’s cold, it’s rainy, you’re outside smoking and get pneumonia.

Your lungs are already weak from smoking and the pneumonia kills you.

If you quit smoking, you would have been inside, dry, safe, less likely to contract pneumonia and less likely to die from it if you get it.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:08 collapse

Fair enough, thanks.

AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 22:39 next collapse

Your chance of dying from all causes is just your overall chance of dying.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:07 collapse

Then they should say that unless their audience is other scientists.

mvirts@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 04:18 collapse

*moves period three words to the left

Ready to publish!

randomsnark@lemmy.ml on 27 Aug 22:44 next collapse

It means the overall death rate in the sample group was decreased substantially. The number of people who survived because they didn’t get lung cancer or blood clots was so large that it had a noticeable impact on the number of total survivors, even when you include death by bus. This is a useful measure for a couple of reasons. One, it accounts for the prevalence of the disease being prevented - cutting all pork from your diet prevents 100% of deaths by trichinosis, which accounts for like 0.00001% of deaths from all causes (completely made up numbers and example, without consulting any sources). Two, it could account for net change in survival, for a treatment or behavior that has both positive and negative effects - giving radiation therapy indiscriminately to everyone with any kind of lump might decrease rate of dying from breast cancer, but increase death “from all causes” because it causes more problems than it solves.

I guess an additional way it might be useful is if we don’t yet have data on the exact mechanisms by which the treatment helps or what exactly its preventing - all we know is that we gave group A the treatment and not group B, and after 20 years there were a lot more people alive in group A, but we haven’t yet found a pattern in which causes of death were most affected and how.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:06 collapse

Thanks. I kind of feel like they should say dying from all diseases. What do I know. I’m not a scientist.

adespoton@lemmy.ca on 27 Aug 23:28 next collapse

If your body is dealing with the effects of decades of smoking, it will be less effective at healing you from all ailments (including being hit by a bus), not just diseases.

boogetyboo@aussie.zone on 27 Aug 23:41 next collapse

Wounds heal poorly for smokers. People who smoke after getting a tooth extraction can get dry socket.

I know someone who ate some rancid food, and was subsequently very, very unwell because they literally couldn’t taste or smell that it was off.

It affects your cardiovascular health so good luck outrunning danger.

Everything is worse if you smoke, in real time and in terms of what it does to your body’s ability to heal or respond to trauma.

Don’t smoke. And if you do, try and quit.

WHYAREWEALLCAPS@fedia.io on 28 Aug 00:20 collapse

My wife has stage 4 colon cancer. One thing people who don't know some who has had cancer don't understand is that you can have it for a long time before it becomes so obvious that you have it. So while she has been far more susceptible to diseases before we figured it out, she found out because she went into the first stage of sepsis due to a necrotic tumor in her uterus that got infected. Sepsis isn't a disease, it's condition. Any infection can cause sepsis so it isn't a symptom but something caused by the symptoms, an add on effect, if you will. If not treated in time, you die of septic shock. Again, septic shock isn't a disease but a condition brought on by a disease. So no, dying from all diseases does not cover everything that you can die from that cancer or emphysema or COPD can have an effect on. In my wife's case, had we waited 24 hours more, she would have likely died because her organs would have started failing due to acidosis. Again, not a disease, a condition. Even if they had been able to treat her in time, her cancer would have likely made their treatments less effective than as they would have been for someone without cancer.

Let me try to put it in better terms. A disease can create a condition which can have a negative effect on the body. This condition is not necessarily solely caused by that disease, so it isn't a symptom. This condition, like acidosis of the blood, can then go on to create further problems, like organ failures, which you can die of. So in this example, the cause of death is organ failure, not acidosis, not the disease. and not the cancer. Without the cancer, the disease might not have spread as fast or happened at all. And thus, quitting smoking improves your chances of not dying from all causes, not just all diseases.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:16 collapse

I’m sorry you’re going through that. Thank you for the answer.

southsamurai@sh.itjust.works on 27 Aug 22:44 next collapse

I’m going to echo korimee, and add that it’s statistics.

When you’re tallying causes of death, like cancer, heart disease, stroke, organ failure, pathogens, whatever; if you factor in whether or not people smoke, smokers die younger from those things, and are a higher percentage of deaths like that as opposed to old age.

Non smokers get those things later, statistically, and have better chances of not only surviving, but recovering. Take stroke as an example. On average, the chances of severe disability from a stroke goes up the more risk factors you have. Smokers are less likely to survive a stroke, and if they do, have worse outcomes when they’re stabilized. Then they have less resilience during the recovery process, leading to worse disability statistically.

The final question you asked only applies obliquely, and others have covered that it would only apply in limited cases. Accidental death, the uptick for smokers is essentially meaningless. For the specific “hit by a bus” kind of accidental death, distraction is how it usually happens anyway, but smokers trying to light up might have a slight extra chance of distraction, but I couldn’t see any data on that with a quick DDG search

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:03 collapse

Ok, it’s kind of worded weird. I guess that makes sense.

cabbage@piefed.social on 27 Aug 23:06 next collapse

I guess we could compare it to ageing. People clearly get more fragile when they get older, and more likely to die from all causes. The common flu or falling in the stairs suddenly pose huge risks once you're 90.

Smoking has a similar effect on you as ageing, except that it's reversible.

xmunk@sh.itjust.works on 27 Aug 23:14 next collapse

Smoking makes you more visible because of the trail of smoke giving away your location - cessation makes it harder for cars to hunt you down and run you over.

Less sarcastically it’s a way of saying that your overall life expectancy is increasing as it decreases the probability that you’d die from a pretty wide array of causes… that bus is going to hit you regardless of how much you smoke but it’s less likely something else kills you first.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:11 collapse

That explains why I keep getting shot while smoking in my fox hole. The enemy can see my smoke rings like a target.

_bcron@lemmy.world on 27 Aug 23:29 next collapse

“All-cause mortality” simply means death from all (or any) causes.

So for smokers, you got a buttload of people with this thing in common, and rather than look specifically at something like deaths from lung cancer, you take a step back and look at deaths from anything. And then go in and try to find correlations and help to understand those correlations.

It’s kind of a chicken and egg scenario, because some of those causes might not be from smoking, but from a person’s proclivity to smoke.

For example, smokers might possibly be more impulsive than non-smokers (generally speaking) and there might be a higher risk of motor vehicle fatalities in the smoker group, but the cause wouldn’t be smoking, it’d be underlying behavioral differences that would make someone more likely to smoke.

It’s basically looking at mortality from a distance as opposed to looking at very specific things up close (but with the data it lets people zoom in on everything)

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 00:28 next collapse

You should ABSOLUTELY quit smoking. Also, you should stop getting hit by buses. Neither one are good for you.

ITGuyLevi@programming.dev on 28 Aug 00:55 next collapse

Totally agree, buses suck! More to the other one, I haven’t had a real cigarette since 31 July; it had been 28 years of smoking with a few short breaks scattered in.

It is insane the tastes I’ve tasted recently, as a die hard Dr Pepper fan I don’t know if I’ll be able to keep drinking it, it’s just too sweet now. Quitting smoking might lead to a healthier lifestyle all around.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:14 collapse

Congratulations on quitting smoking. I quit about 20 years ago. I tried a cigarette after being off of them for awhile. It tasted so nasty I don’t know why I ever started.

ITGuyLevi@programming.dev on 28 Aug 13:39 collapse

Congratulations to you too! Finger’s crossed I’ll get to post the same in a couple decades.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:07 next collapse

I have cut down on my bus addiction. I feel much better now.

Etterra@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 02:54 next collapse

Bus force trauma.

genuineparts@infosec.pub on 28 Aug 11:46 collapse

He is trying to build immunity.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 12:22 collapse

Gotta start small. Get hit by e-scooters and mopeds, then move up to sedans and eventually SUVs. Starting with a bus won’t be good for you at all.

lugal@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 23:19 collapse

Just make sure you don’t develop an allergic reaction. Could happen with too much exposure

m4xie@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 28 Aug 00:38 next collapse

It means all causes collectively, not each and every cause individually.

Floey@lemm.ee on 29 Aug 08:40 collapse

Then shouldn’t it either be changed to “of any cause” or terminate after “dying”.

foggy@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:06 next collapse

Less likely to die from being hit by a bus*

PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee on 28 Aug 01:43 next collapse

Lights Cigarette

Immediately assassinated by Truck-Kun

Gets Isekai Anime with Absurdly Specific Title

Profit?

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 01:48 next collapse

Lol

Etterra@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 02:53 next collapse

How did truck-kun hit me while I was out here in international waters? Damn.

xavier666@lemm.ee on 28 Aug 10:34 collapse

“The Time I Got Isekai’d For Smoking And Turned Into A Level 100 Smoke Demon”

FiskFisk33@startrek.website on 28 Aug 04:46 next collapse

Yes. Everyone knows the bus comes when you light a cigarette.

kuneho@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 12:35 collapse

One of my “modern” folk song is about exactly this phenomenon.

Edit: here it is, if someone is interested, it’s an old-styled, descending, parlando rubato hungarian folk song. I noted it down using solmization.

         A
  2/4||: la,/8 mi/8 mi/8 re/8 | mi/4+ mi/8 | ti,/8 do/8 re/8 mi/8 | ti,/4 la,/4 | ti,/2* :|
         B
     ||: do/8 do/8 ti,/8 la,/8 | mi/8 re/8 do/4 | ti,/2* | do/8 do/8 do/8 re/8 | mi/8 re/8 do/8 | ti,/2* |
         C
     || so,/8 so,/8 so,/8 so,/8 | so,/4* do/8 ta,/8* | la,/2** ||

(the comma after the solmization indicates the note being in a lower octave. Plus sign after a not length value means it’s dotted. Asteriks means fermata. Also, there is one strange solmization note (used in relative solmization) which I marked as “ta”, it’s a flat ti.)

And the lyrics (in hungarian)

“Várakozom én a százötvenegyes buszra, ( A )
Kezemben készen a sodort cigaretta, ( A )
Meg is gyújtom azon nyomban, ( B )
Szippantok belőle hosszan, ( B )
Ah, de megjött már az a busz.” ( C )

Which translates to this (I used ChatGPT for the translating, told it to be a bit more… free or poetic or idk):

“Standing at the stop, the one-fifty-one in sight,
In my hand, a cigarette rolled tight.
I light it up, breathe in the smoke,
A long, deep breath, with every toke,
Ah, but now the bus is here, just right.”

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 01:38 collapse

Wow, that song totally rocks 🤘

kuneho@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 05:33 collapse

🤘 thanks dude

recapitated@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 14:48 next collapse

Dying from all causes sounds like a really rough last page.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 18:04 collapse

Doctor, what did he die of? … Everything!

MenacingPerson@lemm.ee on 28 Aug 16:37 next collapse

Yeah sure, when you get a coughing fit so hard that you can barely breathe and a bus crashes into ya.

Feathercrown@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 17:01 next collapse

I’d think it would be pretty hard for one person to die from all of them

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 18:03 collapse

Oh yeah? Try and stop me!

Maggoty@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 18:33 next collapse

Basically yeah, obviously no. Cause of death isn’t broken down nearly as far as people think it is. You can check it out on the CDC’s Web portal. So while you can get the results for motor vehicle accidents, you may not get the results for motor vehicle versus pedestrian.

So all they’re actually claiming is that in the statistics, people who quit smoking are less represented in every category.

scarabic@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 21:26 next collapse

Buses drive outside.

People tend to step outside for a smoke.

So yeah, you actually might be more likely to get hit by a bus if you smoke, your smoking spot is anywhere near a bus route, and you are ducking out there 2-4 times a day to stand there smoking while you play with your phone.

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 21:48 collapse

Could happen

MehBlah@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 22:18 next collapse

If it was R.J. Reynolds Tobacco and Philip Morris they would prepend that statement with

“A federal court has ordered Philip Morris USA and R.J. Reyolds Tobacco to state:”

I laugh every time I see that weak ass statement displayed in convenience stores.

Dkarma@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 22:54 next collapse

Smoking causes death in many ways.

lugal@lemmy.world on 28 Aug 23:16 next collapse

I first read it as “dying for a cause”. I guess cigarettes make you more revolutionary or something

Kintarian@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 01:35 collapse

Yeah, down with patriarchy!

lugal@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 11:47 collapse

Patriarchy is for sure a cause many people die from, so maybe it’s time to fight and die for ending it

Shanedino@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 00:02 next collapse

If you got hit by a bus your chance for recovery would be better as a non-smoker than a smoker.

Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 29 Aug 14:29 collapse

Also you’re more likely to be milling around outside

0ddysseus@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 01:39 next collapse

Ever heard of what they had to do to take Rasputin out? I think its that

stoly@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 02:25 next collapse

It references general body health and the sorts of things that make you age and die. Heart health, lung condition, oral health, stroke risk, skin quality, etc. All of that stuff is affected negatively by smoking. Stopping nearly instantly makes these things better, and they improve over time. So basically if you stop smoking, any way you could die of natural causes drops.

ngwoo@lemmy.world on 29 Aug 08:35 next collapse

It means your life expectancy immediately increases. There are some things that, depending on your age, improving won’t improve life expectancy. ie, a 99 year old doing something that reduces their risk of colon cancer but nothing else will not reduce their chances of dying because something else will kill them first with 100% certainty.

Quitting smoking decreases risk of death for absolutely everyone in every circumstance

HawlSera@lemm.ee on 30 Aug 06:30 collapse

realizes a nuke is coming starts smoking stops smoking

Hahahahaha. I am GOD