If WW3 breaks out, what countries are going to be on which side?
from ramble81@lemmy.zip to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 21:43
https://lemmy.zip/post/54750476

Title basically says it all. Would it depend if it was the US, Russia or China starting it?

#nostupidquestions

threaded - newest

otacon239@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 21:48 next collapse

I’m on the side of the poor, weak, disabled and oppressed.

Kolanaki@pawb.social on 10 Dec 21:53 next collapse

I, also, like rooting for an underdog.

Peter_Arbeitslos@feddit.org on 10 Dec 22:21 collapse

Profile picc checks out

Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 21:56 next collapse

Uh… So, you’re on the side of Russians? Wut?

[deleted] on 10 Dec 22:15 next collapse
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givesomefucks@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 22:17 next collapse
  1. What does any of that have to do with Russia?

  2. Do you not realize the idiots doing that, also think they’re “on the side of the poor, weak, disabled and oppressed”?

[deleted] on 10 Dec 22:20 collapse
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givesomefucks@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 22:26 next collapse

Well, OP edited the title, and I can just say that instead of accusing you in turn if being illiterate, see how much better that works?

[deleted] on 10 Dec 22:29 collapse
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Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 22:31 collapse

Wait, what? Why would the Russia not threaten to roll an army down your neighbourhood if there was a war including it and your country?

Look for example at what they are doing in Mali.

Also, the Russia is the last of the European colonial empires that has not done anything at all to free its colonies. The other ones have have only done a part of it, but the Russia has not even started with it. Does colonialism not matter to you or what the heck?

[deleted] on 10 Dec 22:37 collapse
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Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 22:24 next collapse

USA and the Russia are on the same side at the moment.
Two evils do not make a right.

[deleted] on 10 Dec 22:28 collapse
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Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 22:45 next collapse

The cash is held “as hostage” mostly by EU countries. USA is trying to convince those EU countries to return the money to the Russia, with very little success.

They are kind of sanctioning the Russia, but all the new sanctions they are making are tacoed. There were sanctions against Lukoil, but they were revoked.
The Russia and USA are stalling. The Russia is doing it to bleed Ukraine dry, USA for some reasons that are inexplicable.

The war will end whenever USA or EU decide to give their full support to Ukraine. As long as that doesn’t happen, Ukrainians do not really have any other option than to continue fighting.

[deleted] on 10 Dec 22:50 collapse
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Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 22:47 collapse

they would … stop that war

How, precisely, would they stop the war? They are trying it together all the time, with zero success.

[deleted] on 10 Dec 22:50 collapse
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Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 22:54 next collapse

I support Ukraine because I have lived in Ukraine and in the Russia and I know both countries. I know why the war is happening, I know what started it and I know why it is continuing. And because I am against colonialism and fascism.

I read very little about Ukraine in the mainstream news, so the billionaire media has very little chances to affect me.

[deleted] on 10 Dec 23:11 next collapse
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Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 23:32 collapse

Every drone strike profits them, they sell the drones, they sell the rebuilding. This war is a war for profit and both sides are soaking it up.

The Ukrainian companies that sell the drones would be much richer if the war ended.

If you think they or the EU are coming to help you, you’re confused.

Why would the EU not come help me? I live in a EU member country and was born in one. (Even though at that point it was not in the EU yet)

If you think the EU has ever let any of their colonies go when they transitioned them from direct colonial rule to neo liberal colonial rule, you’re doubly confused.

So… EU has not let India go when EU transitioned India from direct colonial rule to neo liberal colonial rule. Could you please elaborate what you mean with that? How is India currently a colony of some EU country, or a colony of the EU as a whole? I know especially France is playing dirty in many of its former colonies, but why are you saying that is happening in India and Brazil?

Ukraine is fucked, the only outcome there is becoming Iraq.
So, getting completely occupied by the country that attacked it? Why?

[deleted] on 10 Dec 23:45 collapse
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[deleted] on 11 Dec 04:25 collapse
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_Nico198X_@europe.pub on 11 Dec 09:18 collapse

clown

_Nico198X_@europe.pub on 11 Dec 09:18 collapse

instance checks out. shit takes apologizing for Russian imperialism.

discocactus@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 03:12 collapse

To be fair they’re doing the same thing in their own country, so.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 22:53 collapse

Why don’t presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor?

Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 22:56 collapse

Because they might die in the process and then the country would not have a president? A new one would probably be sworn in very soon, but a new president needs time to gather all the ropes and fully understand what’s going in the country.

ramble81@lemmy.zip on 10 Dec 22:14 next collapse

Edited title to reflect the question is about countries, the groups that actually control the militaries, vs demographic groups.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 22:53 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRXKU64P22Ju_T9hEzYXgcPN0acqZK3fDGqyw&s=">

ICCrawler@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 21:07 next collapse

Well, the cool thing about life is that despite humans making up stories that declare themselves the pinnacle of it, when every human is wiped out, life won’t care and will flourish without them mucking up the works.

hakunawazo@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 21:39 collapse
6stringringer@lemmy.zip on 12 Dec 04:15 collapse

That is everyone in my orbit. F yeah 🙌!

FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website on 10 Dec 22:15 next collapse

That depends on when it will break out. If it’s tomorrow, China and Russia will be buddies or at the very least will be in a non-aggression pact situation. Most of Europe will side against Russia but might be more mealy mouthed towards China (even if they decide to start it by going after Taiwan and that escalates from there). The US will, as it is tradition in a world war, not enter until much later or unless attacked first. And on whose side? Depends on one person’s bowel movement on that day an no longer on treaties and commitments. One of the many crucial areas to watch will be if the US honors the security alliance with Japan.

I say it depends on when because if we give it another 25-50 years, attitudes may shift. The US could try going for a more sane leadership and affirm its NATO membership. Sentiments towards Russia may shift in Europe, especially if the US is progressing further towards Idiocracy.

starlinguk@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 08:55 collapse

The US will be bankrolling Russia. Russia is weak and poor. The only reason they’re still in Ukraine is China. And once they’ve conquered that, the US will happily help them invade the rest of Europe.

Bigfishbest@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 22:30 next collapse

I’m on the side of the Vietnamese

MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca on 11 Dec 03:41 collapse

Pho around and find out.

Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee on 10 Dec 22:41 next collapse

It is possible that WW3 has already broken out, but is not called that way yet. WW2 was not immediately called WW2 either. It took some time for it to grow to the dimensions that enabled it to be called a World War.

As in the previous two world wars, some countries will be switching sides. Just like USA has been doing now, hopping between the side of the Russia and the side of humanity about once per week, depending on how their president is feeling about things each morning.

If we are currently in WW3, then the sides are very confusing:
USA is against China but on the side of the Russia.
China is on the side of the Russia but not really against anyone. Except its own minorities?
EU and UK are against the Russia but not against USA or China.

notgold@aussie.zone on 11 Dec 01:42 next collapse

We have always been at war with them

<img alt="" src="https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/55c80182-75f0-4686-afe3-9f28dab4f43a.png">

MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca on 11 Dec 03:39 collapse

I love how they claim Antarctica, like those penguins are defending the beachheads.

porkloin@lemmy.world on 12 Dec 06:43 collapse

Yeah I think it’s reasonable to assume that it could have started but we don’t know about it yet.

Some people argue that WW2 actually started in the early 1930s with Japan’s incursions into China which ultimately resulted in the second Sino-Japanese war. In 1932 that probably felt a lot like Russia and Ukraine felt to us in 2022. I think the real deciding factor on whether it spirals into a global conflict is the extent to which a bunch of regional conflicts combine into to a global clusterfuck. US shit in South America is not helping. Neither did Israeli shit in Palestine.

Ziggurat@jlai.lu on 10 Dec 22:44 next collapse

Russia attacks EU, US stay neutral, US stay neutral, China leverage on Russia being busy to invade Eastern Russia, the conflict spread to former colonies where Russia, China, France, UK are already in cold war. Meanwhile, Turkey finally attack Greece, and Iran takes the opportunity gain influence most likely with their spy network.

As usual, America stays neutral, until US get dragged in the war (Taiwan or Israel) while Argentina wait for the last day to formally declare war. Not sure whether Japan would invade China or take back the Sakhaline island

TL/DR : Russia/Turkey/Israel versus EU/China/Iran.

As you see I am absolutely not an expert

Beacon@fedia.io on 10 Dec 23:59 collapse
spittingimage@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 22:50 next collapse

I’m from New Zealand. We’ve traditionally been a US ally but the situation being what it is at the moment, I think there’s a good chance we’d try to stay neutral.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 22:54 next collapse

New Zealand will go where its billionaire expat refugee community tells it to go.

fizzle@quokk.au on 11 Dec 09:24 collapse

Sorry bro. Not gonna happen.

Australia and NZ really have to stand together just because of the geography. Australia is critical to NZ’s security. If a superior force conquers Australia, then NZ wouldn’t be able to resist in isolation. Logically then it will always be in NZ’s interest to stand along side Australia.

Similarly, Australia needs a bigger more powerful friend to stare down our neighbors like Indonesia and bullies like China. That friend has been the US for the last 70 odd years, and with AUKUS that alliance will be greatly strengthened.

In any conflict since the dawn of time people have wistfully hoped that their own clan or tribe or city or country could stay neutral, but the reality is that to maintain your neutrality you need to be strong enough to defend yourself without assistance.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 11 Dec 14:21 collapse

Australia’s biggest trading partner is China. It’s absolutely against their interest to have any kind of conflict with China. But being a puppet state of the US, they’re probably gonna do that anyway.

fizzle@quokk.au on 11 Dec 21:33 collapse

China is everyone’s biggest trading partner.

Call us a “puppet state” if you will, but we’re not as far up Trump’s ass as a lot of other allies.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 12 Dec 02:34 collapse

China is everyone’s biggest trading partner.

It’s not tho.

<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/0ebbf84e-e416-420d-a9d6-24ffb9f180d2.png">

Call us a “puppet state” if you will, but we’re not as far up Trump’s ass as a lot of other allies.

The status of puppet state has nothing to do with whether a country’s leader opts to jerk off a clown in public, its about being willing to sacrifice your own economy for our benefit, and extends well beyond Trump.

Also: Supporting us in every war and hostile action against countries whose subjugation doesn’t even benefit your own capitalists.

Sunshine@lemmy.ca on 12 Dec 04:26 next collapse

Lesotho is shocking.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 12 Dec 04:30 collapse

Apparently they export a shitton of diamonds and textiles to the US, enough to outweigh their imports from China.

Sunshine@lemmy.ca on 12 Dec 05:00 collapse

Where did you find this interesting map?

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 12 Dec 06:20 collapse

Reddit, but it matches other sources.

Sunshine@lemmy.ca on 12 Dec 06:47 collapse

Can you link it?

fizzle@quokk.au on 12 Dec 07:47 collapse

This is the US import origins, according to OEC World, the source of the data in your map.

<img alt="eUAaWxdQ9AiDOw7.png" src="https://quokk.au/static/media/posts/eU/Aa/eUAaWxdQ9AiDOw7.png">

China may not be the US biggest trading partner, but it’s not far off.

MerrySkeptic@sh.itjust.works on 10 Dec 23:03 next collapse

The “sides” that the countries take is of secondary importance. Capital will benefit from any conflict, no matter what the stated sides are, and suffer minimally. That’s the true enemy

Depress_Mode@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 23:10 next collapse

To borrow the terminology from WWII, I imagine the Allies might include most of Europe, Japan, South Korea, Israel, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand

I’m betting the Axis countries might include Russia, China, and Iran, possibly Belarus, Hungary, and North Korea, along with partial or total support from other BRICS countries.

The US is kind of a wildcard right now. My first instinct is that they’d align with their closest long-time allies such as those listed above, but with Trump’s affection for Putin and alienation of such allies over the last year, I’m uncertain. Trump could also simply choose to remain neutral, so as not to oppose Putin.

The US was neutral during WWI and WWII until they were attacked directly, so while it’s easy to assume the US would be involved in the next world war, it might not be until it’s forced to be, if at all. It’s probably safe to say the US would at least be sending its allies military aid during the war. As long as no one messes with their shipping or attacks its land, the US might choose to get no more involved than that.

ramble81@lemmy.zip on 10 Dec 23:26 collapse

Honestly my money is kind of on the US starting the next one.

Depress_Mode@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 03:14 collapse

Well, if history tells us anything, it’ll probably be Germany again /s

In the case where the US really does start WWIII, it would definitely throw a wrench in where countries fall in alignment. If the US were to invade one of its neighbors like it’s threatened to do, that could be all it takes. It could be all the countries I listed against the US, for all I know. The only country that I think would support the US no matter what is Israel. I think the US would certainly have a hard time taking them all on. Then again, a world war has never involved a world superpower on the scale we have today, so it’s hard to say what the outcome would be, but I’d expect the US would still probably lose if it was them against the world. Although, taking the fight inside the US would present some significant challenges to overcome owing to geography, besides military obstacles.

RobotToaster@mander.xyz on 10 Dec 23:29 next collapse

Russia and China being allies is a given. Iran and the DPRK will be on their side too.

Israel, the USA, Japan, and parts of Europe will no doubt be on the opposite side, with the more sensible parts of Europe staying out of it.

India I have no idea, they’re nominally a USA ally, but I could also see them trying to stay neutral.

China world no doubt take the opportunity to reclaim the island of Taiwan.

I imagine a lot of Arab states would try to remain neutral at first, but Israel would probably take the opportunity to invade the rest of Syria, at which point some may be dragged into the conflict.

starlinguk@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 08:56 next collapse

No, the US will not be on the side of Europe.

shawn1122@sh.itjust.works on 12 Dec 05:48 collapse

India US relations have gone cold since Trump. Particularly with the +25% tariff for buying Russian oil which they perceive as unfair since

  1. India followed the US in sanctioning Iran in 2019 which is why they increased purchases of Russian oil.

  2. The West had set a price cap on Russian oil after the Ukraine war as everyone understood that completely banning its purchase would drive oil prices up undesirably.

  3. The Biden administration was explicit in acknowledging and accepting that India buy Russian oil. It was seen as necessary to stabilize the market.

  4. China buys more oil than India from Russia and faces no specific additional tariff.

  5. The EU continues to buy gas and the US buys uranium from Russia (which also allows them to continue to finance the war).

  6. The IMF (which is seen as an American/Western institution) continues to bail out Pakistan and the peception in India is that some of those funds will reach non-state actors who will perpetuate violence in India.

There are actually more reasons but India recently hosted Putin for a state visit and rolled out the red carpet for him. India and Russia have historically had good relations (the Soviet Union used its UN security council position to support India against postcolonial Western interference on several occasions) but this was friendlier than many were expecting and it is in large part due to the current US administration being inconsistent on trade policy and incompetent at diplomacy.

India’s official stance is ‘strategic autonomy’ or multialignment but at least right now it seems to have more friends in the East than in the West.

RobotToaster@mander.xyz on 14 Dec 07:24 collapse

Thanks for the info, I didn’t realise India-US relations had become quite so dire.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 23:40 next collapse

See, that’s the thing. We had WW3 in the 1970s. Hitler came back, and he was riding a dinosaur, and Ghengis Khan was disco dancing the night away!

But you never heard about it because we have time travel, and decided that was a stupid timeline.

Oh, also, none of this timeline exists either. We deleted from existence in 2012.

The real timeline? Bernie Sanders won the 2016 and 2020 elections. Covid was a much easier thing to stop, because people got vaccinated.

And Dorritos bought Taco Bell, and IMMEDIATELY went bankrupt.

See? Everything is actually better now. You just never got to experience it.

idiomaddict@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 12:34 collapse

Doritos did actually buy Taco Bell, in a sense.

Edit: that link still makes you do some digging, but here’s the Taco Bell part

sbeak@sopuli.xyz on 10 Dec 23:45 next collapse

If the U.S. started the Great War Part III, it would probably be due to an invasion/takeover of a Russian-aligned country (e.g. Iran)

If Russia began the third big one, it would probably be due to either a) invasion of another European country (e.g. Finland, the Baltics) or b) some huge scandal that may or may not be truthful where American/European/NATO/whatever spies are found in Russian soil, prompting a justification to declare war.

If China were to start the war, it would almost certainly begin with either the hot topics of Taiwan or the South China Sea. I doubt the Chinese would risk a war for either though, and would only go in when the U.S. are distracted in some other war (e.g. if Trump goes in on Venezuela)

edit: or it could be over natural resources. Again.

discocactus@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 03:10 collapse

China would go to war to protect their energy supply. If the US and Russia+Saudi team up its game on. Looks what’s happening now…

sbeak@sopuli.xyz on 11 Dec 04:29 collapse

Wars over natural resources have unfortunately always been a thing with humans. Especially troubling given that we have created all sorts of fun ways to destroy entire populations…

sbeak@sopuli.xyz on 11 Dec 04:31 collapse

I started out when Barry didn’t like that Kyle got a larger share of the hunt than him, and they beat each other with a stick or something idk. Now we have the biggest of big bombs, the deadliest chemical and biological weapons, super fast fighter jets, etc.

DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works on 11 Dec 00:32 next collapse

I’m not sure about country alliances, but I do know that both the US and PRC will declare me as an enemy and “traitor”.

I’m gonna go through what Japanese Americans experienced during WW2

dubyakay@lemmy.ca on 11 Dec 04:12 next collapse

Come up north.

DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works on 11 Dec 05:17 next collapse

I doubt they’ll let me stay long term outside of the visa free X number of days

<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/5c1e7621-14af-4db3-91c0-0954f32de9f2.jpeg">

Not enough proof

dubyakay@lemmy.ca on 12 Dec 00:36 collapse

Just stay close to the border and slip through when they will start interring other Asians.

Apytele@sh.itjust.works on 11 Dec 08:53 collapse

They’ll happily take my nursing degree but I’m not leaving without hubs and he has an old weed-related charge that would probably impair immigration to another country.

idiomaddict@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 12:30 collapse

Even a country where weed is legal?

Apytele@sh.itjust.works on 11 Dec 13:47 collapse

Maybe I’m being pessimistic but I’m pretty sure the immigration paperwork is gonna ask “has he been convicted of a crime” and not “has he been convicted of a real crime?”

idiomaddict@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 14:00 collapse

They will ask that, but there’s often space to explain because of things like this and political prisoners. I’m not sure how Canada’s forms work and if he was convicted of something closer to selling multiple pounds to minors than simple possession*, that probably wouldn’t fly no matter what, but it’s definitely worth a shot.

*intent to sell is also determined very differently in different countries- in Germany, for example, having a scale stored with your supply or having multiple strains of weed in separate bags would not bump you up to intent to sell, but it does in the US

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 11 Dec 14:17 collapse

Ever been to Vietnam? It’s quite nice, and they’re going to remain neutral in any coming conflict.

CovfefeKills@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 02:56 next collapse

The empire-ambitious Axis of convenience: US, Israel, India, China, Russia, various Islamic kingdoms etc vs. whoever is willing to get in their way.

Rhoeri@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 05:07 next collapse

America vs. the rest of the world is what it’s shaping up to be.

starlinguk@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 08:52 next collapse

Nope. America, Russia, China and India will divide the world amongst them. They’re all on the same side.

Rhoeri@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 08:55 next collapse

Fair point. I just figured Putin will discard his little suppository the moment he became a liability.

shawn1122@sh.itjust.works on 12 Dec 05:23 collapse

Middle East/Africa would likely become its own sphere just based on geography. I assume Europe would be in Russia’s sphere.

DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works on 11 Dec 09:00 collapse

Nah, USA will team up with Russia

The rest of NATO will be on one team

As for China… probably just take taiwan and ignore the other theaters

Objection@lemmy.ml on 11 Dec 05:31 next collapse

If WWIII breaks out we’re all gonna fucking die. Will there be any countries left after 24 hours?

davepleasebehave@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 07:46 next collapse

new Zealand

AA5B@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 12:28 collapse

Isn’t there a movie with that premise? They survive but have to watch over a few months as radiation in the northern hemisphere works its way south. They’re already dead but have to wait months for it to happen

Creepo@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 18:32 collapse

Had to look this up is it On the beach?

AA5B@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 23:08 collapse

You got it!

wabafee@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 08:32 collapse

Good chance yes non-aligned nations.

Treczoks@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 07:19 next collapse

We’ll all be on the losing side, that’s for sure.

6stringringer@lemmy.zip on 12 Dec 04:12 collapse

Unfortunately spot on.

BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today on 11 Dec 18:58 next collapse

WWI started with the assassination of a national leader that most people had never heard of, but it dominoed throughout the world into a conflagration that killed millions.

A nuclear war is more likely to start like that. Some dumb country gets their hands on a nuke or two, and what fun is a shiny new toy of you can’t play with it? Once one goes off somewhere, it could spread fast, as nations either defend themselves, or seek revenge.

Fiery@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 12 Dec 07:24 collapse

Basically the movie House of dynamite

Notyou@sopuli.xyz on 11 Dec 20:44 next collapse

It will not be a war between the major super powers but a break up of the globe along those lines.

The US will continue its war on South American, mainly Venezuela right now. Russia will continue to chip away at the EU and push into their territory. China will take Taiwan, but mainly just focus on making money off both fronts. Africa will continue to be exploited by US/Russia/China.

drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world on 12 Dec 03:53 next collapse

The US will probably just dissolve into civil war

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world on 12 Dec 06:03 collapse

I call vice president I’m freaky enough to do it

El_guapazo@lemmy.world on 12 Dec 04:26 next collapse

It’ll be a cold war against the US. Europe and Latin America vs China, Middle East, Africa.

favoredponcho@lemmy.zip on 12 Dec 06:24 collapse

Canada, Europe, Ukraine vs Russia and Belarus

America, Japan, Taiwan vs China and North Korea.

Israel will use the opportunity to fully genocide Palestine, expand into Lebanon and Syria sparking a regional conflict there.

India vs. Pakistan

In practice, some countries will lose rapidly once the nukes fly and a lot of people will die.