Hello, non-Americans, do you have any Chinese language classes in your education system?
from TargaryenTKE@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 23:49
https://lemmy.world/post/31109883
from TargaryenTKE@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 23:49
https://lemmy.world/post/31109883
As an American who grew up at a religious school in the 90s, we absolutely did not (or at least I never had access to one). Obviously places like Kora or Tibet have been effected in their history (I still want to read your answers š), but what about, for example, New Zealand? Or Sierra Leonne? Or Portugal? Iām just curious to see how pervasive the new Global Language already is by this point.
BonusQuestion: Is it mostly following their Belt-and-Road Initiative? Wouldnāt that be something?
#nostupidquestions
threaded - newest
Umm, gonna answer as an American, for clarity: many schools across the US have language classes of all sorts. Every niece/nephew I know across multiple states could study French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Italian, etc, etc. Chinese is one of many (typically Mandarin).
Itās very common in US public schools, and has increased significantly over the last 50 years.
Chinese wasnāt available in my school decades ago, but was in nearby schools.
We only had Spanish for 8th grade and up. When I was in 7th they had high school French but cut it for budget before I got there.
My school offered (from most popular to least popular):
I think my childās high school offers the same, although I donāt know the relative popularities. Iām confident Spanish is still most popular, and judging by the number of posters around the school from German classes trying to convince kids to take German, Iām thinking German is still not very popular.
What about Russian? Serious question; around here it was a relatively popular choice (we share a border with Russia) one or two decades ago, but I suspect this might have changed recently.
Iām going to challenge you on this point. First of all, whatās Chinese? Iām guessing you refer to Putonghua aka Mandarin, the erstwhile variant of Beijingnese prescribed for official use within the PRC by their political leadership.
And second, how āglobalā is it? Itās useful primarily in one contiguous area of the world. Even there a large chunk of people kind of learn it as a first semi-foreign language because they speak something different at home. Cantonese, Shanghainese, or a language that cannot be written in Chinese characters.
Which brings me to my third point: a language that requires study of a script this idiosyncratic will not rise to a global language. Vietnam has gotten rid of hanzi, Korean pretty much as well. Ironically, the north has already completely abandoned it. By comparison, the Latin alphabet was spread by cavalry and cannon boat into all parts of the world for centuries. It spread so far that it is now used to teach pinyin to PRC schoolchildren. And while it is not without its own problems, the simplicity and adaptability of this phonetic alphabet to any language makes it far more useful than Chinese characters. And Iām not shitting on the cultural value of them: thatās unimpeachable. Itās just too complicated.
The alphabet spread with English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese all over the world. Iām not saying thatās a good thing but itās already happened. Mandarin cannot have a similar success today unless the PRC starts colonizing at gunpoint fast.
Most Chinese as a foreign language speakers outside the PRC learned it for economic reasons. Economic ties have become somewhat dicey. If anything I suspect interest in learning Mandarin to wane.
There is also the tonal aspect. Any atonal-native language learner is going to have a much harder time than trying to remember the non-sensical English orthography.
More people on this planet learn English as their first and possibly only foreign language - if they learn one at all. The forum you asked this question on is in English. The internet cements the use of the alphabet.
Iām in Japan where foreign language education is notoriously sub-par overall. English is the first foreign language. Some private high schools offer Mandarin as an optional, I havenāt seen anything substantial in state-run schools. At college level, most people chose between French and German as a second foreign language. Like weāre still in the Meiji Era. Iām a big proponent that they abandon this tradition in favor of Russian, Korean, and Mandarin. It always helps to learn the language of your neighbors. Language schools advertize k-pop-trendy Korean more.
Youāre grilling OP on something they already said they have little experience with. OP is asking questions to learn, and the grilling is detrimental to that.
Iām criticizing the use of the phrase ānew global language.ā And Iāve laid out my reasons why I think thatās wrong. I didnāt think I was grilling OP, just the perception of Mandarin being the new global language. So Iām a little taken aback that you read it that way; that wasnāt my intention.
I mean, when you addressed what is frankly a minor, tangential part of the OP with an essay, it does come across as heavy-handed, even if that isnāt what you meant by it
No, it wasnāt
Hyperbole
What does that even mean?
āI took your question seriously and attempt a serious answerā == āheavy-handedā?
āI donāt agree with all your pointsā == āheavy-handedā?
Seriously, what does āheavy-handedā even mean here? It seems to imply aggression?
As OP, I have no problem with your critiques. And I wasnāt saying I think it will be like that at any point during OUR lifetimes. Like the post said, I was just curious because in my childhood (30 years ago), I knew more about the solar system than I did about China ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
āchallengeā (with an informative explanation) == āgrillā
Thanks for clarifying which sort of internet user you are.
Who are you?
It is the mistake that the AI made that generated this manipulative troll post.
Iām surprised to see how many people are treating this post seriously.
It is super AI pilled.
Whoa whoa whoa, Iām no AI troll, I was just high when I made it š¤Ŗ
Whoa whoa whoa, Iām no AI troll, I was just high when I made it š¤Ŗ
So their was neither any artificial nor naturalā¦ š
I mean, it felt pretty natural to me. None of that synthetic THC-A nonsense. Iām willing to admit it wasnāt my most intelligent moment though š¤£
There was a show on Nick Jr that taught me how to count to three in Chinese while my kids had snack time.
My school (UK, 1980s) offered Mandarin as an extracurricular course. I signed up, showed up... and was the only student. One-on-one classes the rest of the year :)
(Just don't try grilling me in Mandarin now, though.)
Of course plenty of American schools offer Chinese language courses. It's odd that you assumed with total confidence that the opposite was true.
I didnāt say Chinese has never been taught here. I say my experience 30+ years ago didnāt offer any but that could have been for numerous reasons
Chinese will never be the official global language and Iāll give you 8,105 simplified reasons whyā¦
I eagerly await lol
Itās a joke about their writing system
I kinda figured, but I also wanted to see if they had a follow-up prepared š
This is not decided yet.
Russian is still a candidate. English still a possibility despite one large English-speaking country giving up all itās meaning.
High school requires at least a second language class to graduate, I believe. Most people take French as itās the ādefaultā one that all schools offer, but my school also had Spanish, Mandarin, and Japanese, iirc. But that was decades ago.
The French education system require to study two foreign language among a long list, so why most people take English + German/Spanish/Italian some people take rare language like Chinese.
To my understanding rare and hard language like Chinese (or Russian) are also a way to be admitted to a better school/class than your local school, so itās often used by rich kids who want to bypass their local public school and be affected to a good school/class
Danke schƶn. This was basically the āformatā of answers I was expecting. I believe some language options existed earlier than this for my situation, but it was never a requirement until high school, and even then, a lot of students (around me/from my perspective) didnāt care about it all that much
Itās a good question and Iām not dismissing you! But
that in itself is such an American thing to say. First the unspoken assumption that everybody understands what you mean by āreligiousā. And if I looked around here where I live Iām sure I could find a christian (which btw does not mean the same as in the US) school that teaches chinese. And probably even the leaders of such schools have never considered to separate languages into āchristianā and ānon-christianā.
The second half of your question seems a bit paranoid. Are you implying that every Chinese language class is secretly funded by the PRC? Are you afraid that your country might switch to Chinese at some point? Do you have a problem with English not being the No. 1 langauage, globally? Iām no friend of Chinaās political system, but this seems excessive.
Valid points, I appreciate that š Most of your question can be answered by the fact that I was high when I wrote the post and am just tired of using my filter in real life and I feel safe here on Lemmy.
And honestly, my specific Elementary school was veryā¦ unique. Looked them up a few months ago and theyāre a few degrees of separation from Reformed Calvinists. Like, more than half of the faculty come from 2 small Evangelical universities in the middle of the Great Plains. They taught some usual stuff like math and spelling, but then there was also lots of time dedicated to studying the Bible, learned two different songs to memorize the order of the books, we had a āBring your Priest to School Day,ā yeah it was just a liiiiiiitle off.
I see your point in my (unintentional) divide into āchristian/religios vs chineseā and nowadays I would never try to imply anything resembling that. Now that you mention it though, I do remember one day in 1st(?) grade where they had all the students come and listen to a sermon by a guest preacher (this was fairly common) and somehow the topic of āChinese water tortureā came up? (I donāt remember anything more specific than that, I was very young, but I think a connection was made that shouldnāt have been)
As for the paranoia (besides the above annecdote), that was also unintentional. I wish I understood more about
non-Americanculture and as an avid lover of history, I know a lot of times influence is not merely who won which battle and was curious to see if anyone else had more tangible examples than just theories or video game-logic.Overall, the whole point of this was just to talk to somebody so thank you for that š„°
Damn, I like your reply.
And thatās valid; but it might reveal things about your sub/halfconscious that other people will point out to you, and will mistake for conviction. But if youāre OK with thatā¦
And thanks for yet another insight into the certainly not boring but terrifying world of the US education āsystemā.
Gee, thanks buddy š As for the subconsciousness peeking through and being taken as convictionā¦ yeah, there are pris and cons to either method. Overall though, to me, life is too short to worry about it too much. I hope you have a fantastic rest of your week š
In Australia, my high school offers German and Chinese mandatory in y7-8 but optional afterwards.
Not gonna lie, I can understand the Mandarin since you are geographically neighborly, but the German is surprising. Was that just your high school?
Most high schools offer French and Japanese iirc.
Chinese is not a global language. And itās not likely to be in the future. Itās not the raw number of speakers what makes a global language but the number of non-native speakers.
That being said.
In my country, Spain, it is not taught at any level as mandatory, and not even as an option. Of you want to study chinese you have to go to do as an extracurricular thing.
Yeah, my main lesson Iāve learned here is to type the draft while high, but only press Send after Iāve come down š I donāt think it is now or will be in our lifetimes, BUT I do think that if a universal human language were possible, it would be more beneficial to base it on a Tonal system than an Atonal one (sorry Esperanto). But that is just my opinion, feel free to disagree, and thank you for your input š
But why would a tonal system be beneficial?
Beneficialā¦ beneficialā¦ am I answering to an AI?
Idk thatās just, like, my opinion, manā¦ But I think it opens up lots of possibilities for humanity long-term. But yeah no, Iām not AI, just awkward and forward
Not in my school anyway. The languages taught here in Austria vary by school AFAIK, in my school everyone had to learn English, then depending on which branch we selected we could learn French, Italian, Spanish and/or Latin (but there was no path to combine French with Italian).
I looked it up and while it is possible for schools to choose other languages than these, Chinese doesnāt seem to be among them, so that could not be made a mandatory subject, probably could be taught as a non-graded elective though.
Yeah, a lot of these comments seem to think I meant āMandarin isnāt taught anywhere in the USā when really my point was that the particular schools I attended did not have it available. But thatās on me as OP. Thanks for your input š
Ireland. I doubt any schools offer it as a curricular, but it is an exam subject. Generally the only people sitting the exam are Chinese native speakers who moved here.
Fair enough. Thanks for the input buddy š
yes, in France, in business schools, they definitely teach Chinese, as a choice, not mandatory.
I believe it is also possible to take Chinese classes during high school , again as a ā3rd language optionā, after English and /Spanish / German
Follow-up question: business schools? As in, specialization before high school graduation? I know there are a handful of āpremierā schools here in the states but most of them are expensive, exclusionary, and focused on simply getting INTO a better university (prep schools). Most of us just go through general public education which can vary wildly and you definitely do not (in most cases) get to choose between the ābusinessā branch or the āengineeringā branch
No, you are confusing āprep classā, which prepare to engineer/business school/university, with business school itself.
Business school is like a University , but private and expensive. Itās higher education (Master degree)
Ahhh I get it now. Thank you for clarifying š
Yes my public high school had it as a language back in the late 1980s/early 90s. This would be New Jersey, USA.
Fair enough. Also thanks for not being one of the comments saying āthey definitely exist in America how dare youā š I couldāve worded it better but the goal of the post was to find edicational systems different than the one I personally went through, not to try to define all of Americaās system in a few sentences. I put a fairly detailed description of that in one of my other replies if youāre curious but regardless, thanks for your time š
My town was one of the wealthier in the USA at the time and had a substantial population of immigrants from Korea/Japan/Taiwan so it made sense as a third language offering for the kids who were going back to Asia.
A ton of American kids took it because their parents were in finance and pushed it.
edit: It wasnāt commonly offered in NJ schools in that time. That might have changed in the decades since I graduated
My high school in a semi rural part of the Southern US had a Chinese language class that you could choose to take for your foreign language credit back in the early 2010s. I think itās a false premise to say that itās not taught in the US, most kids just choose to take easier languages like German, French, or Spanish
I definitely shouldāve worded the post better but yeah I didnāt mean to imply that itās never taught in the states. Just that my personal experience in the system (also southern but urban) didnāt really give me any chances š But honestly a large reason for that probably just came from my particular setting (Iām NOT typing that whole thing out again but in one of my reply threads I go into more detail on the weird things I grew up learning)
Singapore - Mother Tongue is a compulsory subject to take up until Uni. Being classified as Chinese racially, I had to take Mandarin during my formative years - but Iām still not good at it lol
I feel you, I still feel like I barely know how to speak English š