Evolutionarily speaking, wouldn't premature ejaculation be considered the desired trait?
from ramble81@lemmynsfw.com to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 14 Sep 03:30
https://lemmynsfw.com/post/30508313
from ramble81@lemmynsfw.com to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 14 Sep 03:30
https://lemmynsfw.com/post/30508313
There is the issue of an orgasm before penetration, but barring that, does the length of intercourse have any bearing on reproduction?
#nostupidquestions
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A trait being selected for doesn’t always mean it’s desirable to the individuals who have it.
You could also have too much offspring. Our current reproduction rates already have us at the brink of collapse. And the rest if the planet with us.
No no no no. This a myth. People saying we’re killing the planet. We’re not killing the planet. We’ll never kill the planet. The planet will kill us. All humans will die, and earth will carry on. And some new species will take over. And millions of years from now, they’ll discover our modern day buildings. Deep burried underground.
They’ll mistake them for bones at first, but eventually they’ll figure out that these are primitive structures for housing. Housing that doesn’t fly. Doesn’t teleport. Doesn’t blast off into space. Just stationary buildings. And then they’ll laugh at how stupid humans were.
‘The planet’ was just short for ‘all organisms living on the planet’. The planet itself is not living, so it cannot be killed. But you knew that all along, did you not?
That’s capitalist propoganda. It’s so the working class spends time working more instead of having a family
You’re finally going to get communism a day before you burn down the planet blaming everyone but yourself 🤣
When did I mention communism?
So what system is being proposed once you get rid of the capitalist pigs and propaganda? We going back to patronage? Feudalism?
Revelation 21-22:7,12-17
Technology has already given us plenty of ways to sustain a growing (at least until it tapers off on its own at ~10 bil) population without harming the planet too much. It's the filthy rich preventing us from doing so.
Technology was always built on energy sources. Hopefully nuclear fission will perform as anticipated, as current sustainable energy sources will run out sooner or later. I’m not sure how wind turbines and solar power will survive in a lower energy avalibility society. Looks like a Mad Max scenario to me.
The question was about evolution, how is this not part of that discussion? When we’ve destroyed all natural resources and heated up the atmosphere beyond food production possibilities (including loss of biodiversity), we’re back at the stone age. With matching population numbers. Evolution will take it from there.
Who’d want to fuck in the first place if it wasn’t any fun?
Do you have any idea how terrifying a ducks penis is??? And yet, ducks exist. Ducks fuck.
I don’t know what pandas penis looks like, but they need to get to fucking. They’re gonna go extinct soon!
Maybe having violent and horrifying penis’s is the way to go!
Monkeys seem to do it just fine and they last 10 seconds
That sounds like a ‘their kind of problem’ to me.
Maybe for other animals but not humans. The fact that we’re one of the few creatures that enjoy sex is the evolutionary trait. In the world before contraceptives, humans enjoying sex meant more procreation.
… How do we know only a few other creatures enjoy sex? It seems like it’d be a good idea for evolution to do that with any animal that can enjoy things, and it’s not like we can ask most of them.
I asked my dog if he enjoys sex. He looked at me with a stern look and asked “Where are you going with this?”
Never had a problem with a dog humping your leg?
Nah, what’s the problem? I don’t mind.
Humans are unusual that females don’t show easily perceptible signs of ovulation and willingly fuck outside of that window.
I read somewhere that many species will do the same. Hell, bonobos will fuck often; homo, hetero, doesn’t matter. It’s part of their society.
Not many species will be receptive to sex outside of their fertility windows. Bonobos will, but not chimpanzees. I don’t think gorillas or orangutans will, either.
We’ve met different gorillas and orangutans, I suppose.
Several things to consider, but I'm not sure about the first:
- I half-remember something about the female response helping the sperm get to their destination, but someone else will need to figure out if I have that right. I'm more confident that there are claims that the head of the penis is shaped to pull any existing semen out such that repeated action would make it more likely that any previous encounter was at a disadvantage over the more recent mate. Since I didn't study this myself, I've no idea how valid those claims are, but I know research papers exist and include several other species as well as humans.
- Will premature ejaculation reduce pair-bonding? Will the female opt a different mate or no mate at all if she has no desire to repeat the encounter? The female might have one pregnancy with an unsatisfying partner and many offspring with someone else.
- Will the female keep the offspring? Historically and in many other mammals, a mother may reject her young. She might do this because she is alone and can't care for it, or has a different mate who rejects it.
- Will that offspring survive to reproductive age? If not, the initial preganancy doesn't matter because an abandoned/neglected baby or youth that fails to reach maturity is an evolutionary dead end.
On the first point, I read the original paper. It was wild and shouldn’t be taken as fact. The authors modeled a 3d penis and vagina and showed that the penis is able to scoop out paste from the vagina. They then interpret it as that it’s “possible” for the penis to have evolved the way it has to scoop out rivals’ semen.
The obvious counter to the claim is that anything can be used as a shitty scooping spoon if you try hard enough.
Also, note that a woman would need to have some wild body counts if she’s having sex so often that she doesn’t even have the time to let the previous guy’s semen drip out
The starting point is the focus on ways in which human sexual behavior is different from those of our closest living relatives, other primates and apes, and how the observed sexual behavior of those other species correspond with physical characteristics in their genitals.
I found this paper to be pretty interesting, and it has a decent summary of why the semen pumping theory sticks around despite some pretty significant issues. It proposes its own theory for the glans penis, but the discussion of the history of the displacement theory is good background on its own.
Basically, species with low sperm competition (where each female tends to mate with only one male) have smaller testes and smaller sperm midpieces (the motor unit that actually drives movement), and species with high promiscuity and high sperm competition, like chimpanzees, tend to have larger testes and larger sperm midpieces. And on these metrics, humans sit towards the less promiscuous side of the spectrum.
So any theory of intense sperm competition is pretty inconsistent with other observed characteristics of human genitals and sperm.
But there also aren’t good alternative theories for human penis shape, when comparing all the primates that do or don’t have similar features.
I would recommend reading en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_at_Dawn book. While getting lots of academic criticism, it describes logically (and criticism for that was the most minor) well why penis has a form it has and sex lasts different amount of time for men and women.
To cut it short our ancestors species females had sex with several males (and vice versa), where evolutionary not the strongest male would reproduce, but whoever sperm will get to the ovum first. So penis is a pump which should help to remove as much sperm of previous males as possible, (that’s why some time for sex is required), ejakulate as strong as it can, than soften and loose shape to stop acting like a pump. Also there were spermicids found in substance males ejakulate in the end, which might be to minimize next male chances.
Partly book is very questionable, but it has some valid points and quite fun to read.
So yeah, academically, the both likely hasn’t much worth
You can’t bar that. That’s the phenomenon you’re describing.
Simultaneous orgasm increases the chances of a person getting pregnant (except for two men). However if you are second to the party doing a couple of thrusts to scoop out the other person’s cum and putting your own in is ideal.
(Except for two men)
You don’t say.
Two women works ?
Only if you have a million dollars.
Hey if it worked for dinosaurs
OP thanks for making me search up this on Wikipedia. I guess this does answer the first question: premature ejaculation might indeed be the desired trait in most mammals…
I couldn’t find anything about length of intercourse vs reproduction rates… The only thing I could find that are remotely related are one suspicious blog post and this post by Mayo Clinic. It seems that the sources I could find suggust it is a serious issue for self-confidence/sexual well-being, but there doesen’t seem to be any documented fertility issues as long as it is PIV sex