Was Elvis Presley a groomer and pedo? if so why was he so loved and not persecuted and prosecuted?
from snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 20 Aug 02:24
https://lemmy.world/post/18844653
from snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 20 Aug 02:24
https://lemmy.world/post/18844653
Author Joel Williamson shared Elvis kept a group of three 14-year-old girls with him on the tour who were up "for pillow fights, tickling, kissing and cuddling when he was 22.
#nostupidquestions
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Yes, Priscilla was 14.
As disgusting as we see it now, keep in mind that, back then, child marriage was not only condoned but sometimes encouraged in those parts of the Southern U.S.
We’ll never know if he did it because he had a thing for young girls, or if he did it simply because it was an accepted practice.
Regardless of why, it’s objectively terrible that he did that.
Canada only changed the age of consent from 14 to 16 last decade.
Age of consent is not the same as age an adult is allowed to be with a minor. Minors should be allowed to consent to have sex, just not with much older people. Laws that prosecute, say, a 19 year old from having sex with a 17 years old, or god forbid two 14 years olds to have sex together, are absolutely draconian.
Actually, that’s exactly what age of consent is. The age at which you’re allowed to do things with an adult of any age.
Romeo and Juliet (or close in age) exceptions are for the situation you’re describing, and are usually tacked onto age of consent laws as an exception.
In Canada, there’s a pair of these. At 14 and 15 it’s less than 5 years older, and at 12 and 13 it’s less than 2 years older.
Fun fact: there’s no such thing as objective morality. Back in the 1920s people thought it was objectively terrible for Black people to have equal rights.
I said it was objectively terrible, I didn’t mention morals. :)
Harming people is terrible, whether or not social morality supports it.
It wasn’t seen as harmful back then.
No, but it was harmful.
I’m talking about the objective harm of encouraging underage girls to avoid study and live their lives in the service of older men. There is nothing good that can be said about such a thing. It’s basically indentured servitude.
Ok, it wasn’t seen as relatively more harmful than anything else that would cause strain in a young person’s social, educational, and professional growth. Like an overinterest in sports or gambling or books.
I’m not talking about how it was seen. I’m talking about how it is. There’s a difference.
Cutting off hands was seen as socially acceptable at certain times in history, if someone was merely accused of theft. But it is horrific and terrible. How it was seen as irrelevant to it being terrible objectively terrible.
Are you just trolling, or are you actually trying to defend some of that behavior?
Ok, have fun with that, because that’s not what I was talking about at all.
Fuck you for trying to win internet points by trying to paint someone as agreeing with pedophilia. It’s fucking disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
…I’m not sure how else you’re trying to be seen, based on how you keep responding to me.
Then you need drugs or therapy or maybe to get off the internet for a while, because you’re so damn eager to find someone to throw your righteous anger at you decided to paint people as pedophiles. It’s fucking sick. Stop. Get help.
Because no one cared about that 60 years ago
Most people weren’t even aware of it.
The general public knowing every little detail about a celebrity’s life simply wasn’t a thing then.
People wrote songs about it. Famous songs that you know the words to. People knew, they just didn’t care.
The sad truth is that it was a very common practice. Just wait until they hear about Jerry Lee Lewis.
And the Grateful Dead (sure Bob, you waited while she slept outside your room every night for 3 years), Chuck Berry, Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin, and about a hundred other groups. Hell, Kiss had the Christine Sixteen song, Jethro Tull had Aqualung, Seventeen by Winger, Into the Night by Benny Mardones, and a bunch of other songs have super uncomfortable lyrics about girls.
That’s not even getting into well known shit bags like Nugent.
Jethro Tull doesn’t romanticize Aqualung (the old man that sits on a park bench and eyes little girls with bad intents). Quite the contrary actually.
That’s a really good point. I’m leaving it for now so your reply makes sense but I’ll remove it next time I make that list (which happens too often).
Yuuuuuup it’s a long line of assholes in rock and roll.
Those fucks would talk parents into giving them “Guardianship” over their teenage daughters so they wouldn’t be arrested for kidnapping and child molestation.
So parents pimped out their own children for money... civilized society for ya
Just ask Steven Tyler
Or Jimmy Page. Or Ted Nugent. Or Conway Twitty. Or…
I’m pretty sure fathers cared. Shotgun and shovel levels of caring.
At least one of the fathers openly endorsed it. I don’t think fathers cared as much about it as you think.
Well he managed to sell rock music to white people so we can look past that
Oh hey, you dripped this
/s
The /s has no drip, none at all
I was literally going to edit the comment to take care of the phone typo but now… it stays.
Because his fame comes from an era when that kind of age gap and inappropriate conduct was handwaved away with “fRoM a GoOd FaMiLy!”
Especially in his native southern US. Especially especially among the white folks in his native southern US.
Wait until you find out about Jerry Lee Lewis…
Wait until you find out about The Prophet Mohammed
Wait until you find out about Donald Trump.
Donald Trump had a wife whose age was a single digit?
I think he’s still under 10 of them, yeah.
Edit: oh wait, age not number, my bad
So I can better understand, could you draw me a picture?
Sure, if it helps you: <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4c60ca85-1a7f-41fe-a37e-723eb3ddb892.png">
Do you have anything else I can wait for if I already know about all these things?
Go to the restaurant at the end of the universe and wait for the show there.
That’s one of the few scenes from a book that I regularly think about, and I read that soooo long ago
Muslims are still bending out of shape trying to explain that away 🤡
Disgusting history along with with bootlickers larping it to this day.
While some want to litigate what Mohamed did in the 15^th^ century, child marriage is still legal in most of the US and is still practiced (illegally) all throughout Europe.
I post this because I’m sick of people who think that Muslims have something to teach the West about persecution, degeneracy, theocracy, violence, and bigotry when we’ve been the world leaders of all forms of lechery for like 4 centuries.
There wasn’t much he could be doing when he had been dead for 800 years already.
Decay, you know? :)
All your other stuff smells the same btw…
Wait until you learn about what Catholic priests and nuns did to kids for 2,000 years.
Oh no…
Wait til you read about Gandhis sleeping habits in his old age.
another one!
why are all these geriatric clowns always go for fucking somebody else's kid.
I don’t like saying it because people get very emotional and unreasonable about this but:
These things were normal a long time ago. It’s only been in recent years, especially starting from the 1960s, that moral panic took over and these things are looked at now as “a crime”.
Ah yes, what a neutral and regulated way to phrase that.
I think they meant people’s reaction to the idea that the past could’ve had a different view on it that we view as disgusting rather than implying it’s “emotional and unreasonable” to view criminalized pedophilia as a “moral panic”, but I’m not a telepath. That was just my reading of it.
what is the alternative view here? this 14 year old reads on 18 year old level?
it was normal to allow your child to bang adults?
First time I am hearing of this dear... Do you let adult people to fuck your kids?
“Was” means past tense.
Also, fuck your condescension.
i guess depending on what is your position on child and adult here...
but yeah, i don't think anyone is permitting their jailbait to fuck anyone over 20 in good conscience.
Not currently. But it used to be fairly common, is the point.
ok... it was common for parents to allow catholic clergy to fuck their kids and when kid complained they did nothing. what is your point?
The distinction between past and present. And more abstractly, not confusing acknowledgement of past moral principles as agreement with them.
saying it was common back then is tacitly approving of it IMHO
but people can make up their own minds.
note that many of these people who fucked jail bait are still alive and it is still happening in celebrating circles.
did not charlie cheen rape some kid? and there many stories all the disney jailbat being raped?
What excuse will society muster for this shit happening in 1990s?
That’s the mindset I take issue with.
where are you getting this information? how common was it?
who was fucking all this jailbait? just trash celebs? or everybody was bagging a 14 year old on the side?
who was supplying the jailbait? parents or they just acted on "their own"
Maybe if people weren’t so afraid to acknowledge uncomfortable topics in history, you would know the answers to those questions already.
It was closer to this.
Well you don't learn this shit in history books but if it is true, then all these pedos need to go into a wood chipper.
They’re mostly dead.
Here’s my suggestion: stop with the moral outrage. The reason it’s harmful is because of the potential for manipulation, not because such relationships are inherently harmful. The potential for abuse and manipulation is such that we’ve determined the risk is too high to accept as a society. That’s a judgment call and a subtle determination, one which previous generations (pretty much all of human history) did not make.
Murder and assault are pretty much universally and instinctively viewed as wrong by all societies. Relationships between adults and teenagers has historically not been seen as such. That’s a cultural phenomenon that’s very recent. I think it’s an advancement in society, like how we’ve decided misogyny and racism is wrong. But before you decide that literally everyone born before 1983 is Evil, maybe step back and consider history and culture a little.
That is the decision dawg... We will use the information but nobody has to accept these bags tbh
That's what's breaking cycle of abuse looks like.
No it’s not lol, it’s just being toxic and hateful. Maybe it’s less unhealthy, but it’s still unhealthy.
Have you not listened to songs from that era? They’re mostly about hooking up with underage girls.
Yeah, sweet seventeen by Chuck Berry also hits … as at the very least, creepy in 2024.
Don’t forget “Sweet Caroline” about an 11 y/o Caroline Kennedy. Fucking creep.
Might you be thinking of “Sweet Little Sixteen” by Chuck Berry? The guy who btw installed cameras in women’s bathrooms?
Also, the most venerated boomer band of all time…
“She was just 17… if you know what I mean “
Love the Beatles, mind you, but uhhhh… all of those boomer bands were like that.
“I used to pull your pigtails And your scrunched up nose But baby you been growing And baby it’s been showing From your head down to your toes”
Another Elvis hit, “Little Sister.”
Again, love the King, but uhhh….
Ah yes, that’s the one (oops).
Yeah, I like several Chuck Berry songs but … definitely a different take. Those songs would not fly today on the radio.
For “She was just 17” Paul McCartney was only 21 when that song came out and was dating a 17 year old then. Might have written it when he was 20 and the age of consent in Britain in that time was 16. That’s only 3 or 4 years age difference. I don’t get weird vibes from that. The Beatles were young when they started.
Neil Sedaka’s “Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen” is one that gives me the strangest vibes.
Yeah, I mean it’s in the context of the time,‘I never had a problem with that per se. It’s more that some folks took it out of that context and were not quite as situationally aware I guess you could say.
Then there’s the cases of folks like Jerry Lee Lewis marring his 13 year old cousin, Elvis marrying a 14 year old, etc.
Because he was famous, white and in america.
Ding ding ding
Snoop was a pimp. Now everybody loves him. Weird.
And stood trial for a murder, which he was definitely present at. Everyone’s forgotten that Snoop is an actual OG who ran with bangers. His PR with Martha Stewart completely changed his image, and now he’ll put his name and face on anything that will pay him enough money.
But did he pimp children?
seems more important that people wanted him to, even if he didn’t, as what a settlement might imply.
so you think exploiting grown-ups is ok?
So you think children have the same capacity to defend themselves as adults?
🤡
So you think every grown-up has the capacity to defend themself?
Like, you’re grown up now - if you get exploited or abused it’s your own fault because you are not a kid anymore? got it.
Rheee
sorry, i dont speak 🤡.
Why u hurt tho?
Sorry, i did not want to hurt you or your feelings. Peace
P.s. this poor comeback took you a long time.
Said a guy making up arguments in his own head while talking to himself lol
you are a weird little guy. I like you.
I absolutely hate (not dislike) that “huah” vocal noise that’s commonly associated with him and think any human making that noise needs to be taken out immediately.
I’ve never heard anything about any of this but I absolutely hate him and any contract he made on society simply as a product of the horror of that noise.
I exaggerate for humor, clearly, but I really do absolutely hate that noise and do not give it a single shred of artistic respect at all, it’s flatly and out-of-hand declined any consideration for credit at all and people that like him as an artist I will literally completely discount any of their artistic opinions.
I have the same artistic hate for Elvis that I have political and personal hate for Trump.
I don’t even have a way to know exactly what it is but just hearing his voice immediately sends me into a blinding rage. It’s not to my knowledge some kinda trauma type of memory associated with it, because I was only exposed to enough of it to just recognize the voice. There are just a few things I know of that make me that angry that quickly. One of them is having to backtrack. Like realizing you forgot a critical grocery and having to go back to the store immediately, or forgetting to bring that one super important thing to work and you have to go back for it before going in. That part multiplies with any kind of time pressure.
But Elvis hits me in the same kind of spot. A randomly specific and very reactive trigger. Well I say reactive but I just end up telling at myself and increasing blood pressure for a few minutes. I don’t literally go into a fugue state and start dropping people.
All that just to say that with me he is absolutely NOT loved and the little bit I heard about some kind of drama with the Graceland estate makes me laugh myself silly because screw those people, the whole lot of them. Do fans of Elvis even care a little bit about any of the family careers? It doesn’t seem so to me, but I’m not an expert.
Without Elvis we’d never have Johnny Bravo.
I would be very ok with that.
You sound …huah, all shook up.
I guess I’ll accept the phrasing here. But I don’t like it.
Idk, but I like the song return to sender.
Downvote all you want, itll just make me like it even more
Paedophilia seemed weirdly acceptable right up until around 2000 or so. It’s really quite surreal how commonplace it was.
Plus it was easier to cover up back then.
Cris Collinsworth openly admitted to it
Amateur. In the 70s they admitted it in song.
I won’t say acceptable, as there were still issues and such, but it was definitely persecuted differently.
Uh… no. Baby raping has always been frowned upon as far as I’m concerned. 14 year old consensual (to the extent a 14 year old can be) groupies were a thing, in the not too distant past, but social mores have changed since then. Which is good. There’s an enormous difference between the two though.
I think you may be wrong. Wikipedia tells me that:
“In 1880, the ages of consent were set at 10 or 12 in most states, with the exception of Delaware where it was 7.”
…wikipedia.org/…/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_St…
Delaware is whack, but historically age 12-15 was a reasonable (for the time) age for girls to marry. Most biblical scholars say that Mary (JC’s mother) was about 15/16 when she popped him out (assuming there is some historical fact in the story) so those ages in your country weren’t completely crazy outliers. People grew up quicker back then because people died sooner back then. Just getting to the age of 12 was an accomplishment in its self. The past was a different place. If humanity makes it a few more generations then some of the things we accept and do now will be seen as unacceptable. We are all products, to a greater or lesser degree, of the time we live in and that shapes how we see the world as it is and as it has been.
I think it was that people weren’t seen as victims. They weren’t seen as helpless
Absolutely. The optics of the past don’t match-up with the optics of the present.
Priscilla was 14 when they met, and he managed to convince her father to let her live with him. I blame the father just a much since he knew what was going down.
Not that I condone any of this, but consider that the cultural disgust of marrying a girl under the age of 18 is a more recent and modern taboo. Back then, in rural United States, it wasn’t an issue at all. Heck as a Gen X kid whose parents were from the Silent Generation, my mother married her first husband when she was 16 and he was 22. She never thought it was an issue other than she regretted marrying anyone at the age. But her parents, church, and teachers didn’t think it was a problem.
It’s hard to believe because most people might say Elvis lived in modern society but he’s not. The 20th century was full of changes that we don’t really think about.
I agree with you on that. And the changes still are going on. I remember in school in the 90’s it wasn’t uncommon for a college guy to date a high school girl with no real repercussion. Not saying that it was right back then, just looked at differently.
It was gross back then too. In the 90s the Coasties would trawl the junior high girls. 25 year old men “dating” 13 year olds. We all knew it was gross as fuck and not okay but small town cops didn’t give a fuck. Hell there was a deputy “dating” a 16 year old too.
It wasn’t looked at differently in the 90s.
A guy in my class knocked up a 14 year old during senior year and we basically all stopped talking to him because fucking ew, dude.
This, but also rape and other abuse was tolerated for some reason back then.
There is also a bit of a gender disparity for who is getting help now. Women can get help a lot more easy than men, and aren’t as likely to be dismissed when they come forward.
Lets keep pushing in the right direction
Plenty of famous people were scumbags. Violent, racist, misogynist, beat up women, cheated, etc. From John Wayne to Frank Sinatra, they were awful human beings but people worship them.
Jerry Lee Lewis married a 13 year old.
Yeah, but she was his cousin so…