Why does America feel the need to control the world? Do what they say? Instead of taking care of their own problems at home? When did the US become police officer of the world and enforcer?
from Patnou@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 17:19
https://lemmy.world/post/31775366
from Patnou@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 17:19
https://lemmy.world/post/31775366
I guess my question is who gave the Americans the right? I say this as an American. But would not the world be a better place if we just minded our own business and quit nation building and stoking non existant fires?
#nostupidquestions
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After world war two, Europe was busy putting itself back together. It left an opening that the US stepped into. And who wouldn’t like to be the big dog in the yard.
They (the USA) got to be the big dog, protecting us in europe, and we let them the hard & soft power. Everyone was happy (in the US and Europe) until americans started to believe their own hype that thay are in fact better than other people, and thus the breakup began.
It’s not over just yet with the usa supremacy but trump fucked things up so bad that IMO ten years from now the world will be a different place.
Protecting Europe from what exactly? What military threat did the US fight against in Europe? There hasn’t been an attack to western Europe since WW2 until the US bombing of Yugoslavia.
You can’t be this dense right?
Against the URSS 🙄
Edit: BTW URSS = USSR = CCCP before any homeschooled troll tries to be smart.
Against the ones who saved Europe from Nazism?
Lol nice try
What on Earth are you talking about? My country, Spain, only received weapons and military aid against fascism from the USSR years before WW2 started, during the Spanish civil war. The Soviet Union was the most antifascist state in Europe, and I wish my country would have been next to the Soviets so that we wouldn’t have endured almost 40 years of fascist regime.
Sure, just forget about Lithuania, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, and so on and on and on.
The soviet union teamed up with the nazis and started the second world war, check out the molotov ribentrop act.
Also: why chose between two bad things, Franco and the USSR when you can aim for the free world? Are you unhappy i the EU?
Wanna discuss Molotov Ribbentrop? Let’s discuss Molotov Ribbentrop
Ok, I’ll try to explain this in detail and in good faith. Please, I beg you do the effort of reading through my comment, I’ll explain the reasons why I believe Molotov-Ribbentrop wasn’t imperialism:
1) Most of the invaded “Polish” territories actually belong to modern Lithuania, Ukraine and Belarus. In 1919, Poland started the Polish-Ukrainian war and invaded Ukraine, Belarus and part of the RSFSR. This so-called “carving of Poland by the Soviet Union” liberated many formerly oppressed non-Polish national ethnicities such as Lithuanians in Polish-controlled Vilnius arguably being genocided, or ceding the city of Lviv to the Ukraine SSR. Here’s a map of the territories of modern Poland that were actually invaded by the Soviets, and which ones (the vast majority) actually belong to modern Ukraine and Belarus. <img alt="" src="https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/4b8c2f8a-1222-4c0a-a77f-cbf692963dbc.png">
And here’s a map of the pre-Molotov-Ribbentrop Poland and the majority ethnicities per region: <img alt="" src="https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/3378fd56-83d5-4995-a8a6-f6cb807c90d8.png">
Please look at those two maps, and notice how the “Polish” territories invaded by the Soviet Union in 1939 were actually Ukrainian/Belarusian/Lithuanian majority and were returned to their corresponding republics after they were invaded and forcefully taken by Polish nationalists in 1919.
2) The Soviet Union had been trying for the entire 1930s to establish a mutual-defense agreement with Poland, France and Britain against the Nazis, under the doctrine of the then-People’s Commisar of Foreign Affairs Maxim Litvinov. This decade-long proposal for mutual-defence went completely ignored by France and England, which hoped to see a Nazi-Soviet conflict that would destroy both countries, and Poland didn’t agree to negotiations by itself either. The Soviet government went as far as to offer to send one million troops together with artillery, tanking and aviation, to Poland and France. The response was ignoring these pleas and offerings.
Furthermore, this armistice between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany happened only one year after the Munich Betrayal. The Soviet Union and France had a Mutual Defense Agreement with Czechoslovakia, which France (together with the UK) unilaterally violated in agreement with the Nazis when ceding Czechoslovak territories to Nazi Germany. Stalin offered France, as an alternative to the Munich Betrayals, a coordinated and two-front attack to Nazi Germany, which France rejected in favour of the Munich Agreements.
3) The Soviet Union had been through WW1 up to 1917, the Russian Civil War up to 1922 (including a famine that killed millions) in which western powers like France, England or the USA invaded the Bolsheviks and helped the tsarist Whites to reestablish tsarism, which ultimately ended with a costly Bolshevik victory; the many deaths of famine during the land-collectivization of 1929-1933, and up to 1929 was a mostly feudal empire with little to no industry to speak of. Only after the 1929 and 1934 5-year plans did the USSR manage to slightly industrialize, but these 10 years of industrialization were barely anything in comparison with the 100 years of industrialization Nazi Germany enjoyed. The Soviet Union in 1939 was utterly underdeveloped to face Nazi Germany alone, as proven further by the 27 million casualties in the war that ended Nazism. The fact that the Soviet Union “carved Eastern Europe” in the so-called “secret protocol” was mostly in self-defense. The geography of the Great European Plain made it extremely difficult to have any meaningful defenses against Nazis with weaponry and technological superiority, again proven by the fact that the first meaningf
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/651b96f6-8a7e-48b2-8b8a-a2f78cdcc3e8.jpeg">
AI slop lol
I wrote that myself, buddy, you’ll probably be able to even find Spanish to English translation mistakes if you can look and correlate lmao. I specifically asked you to argue in good faith, I hope you can change your mind and actually do that
And how do you explain Holodomor? Katyn? The Winter war? The annexation of the Baltic states? The Prague coup? The suppression of the Hungarian revolution? The suppression of the Prague spring? How does the Nazis being worse justify the authoritarian and imperialist things the USSR did?
So you just ignore my entire comment and try to find other “Soviet history compilation: best gotcha moments”? Answer to my previous comment in good faith and I’ll answer to you in the same way
The original question at stake here was why western Europe would want protection from Soviet invasion. I have provided a list of reasons. Should probably have put it earlier in the comment chain, but you haven’t even pretended to adress it. I do acrually have some synpathy for your argument of the necessity of the USSR accepting the Molotov-Ribbentropp in the face of the weatern allies’ refusal, but I still find it a rather weak argument considering how completely unprepared the USSR was when Barbarossa began, because they don’t seem to have accomplished much with their vaunted breathing room. Not that any of this justifies the decades of occupation and oppression after the war.
Pretty much this. Up to that point, it was Britain and a few other European nations that were doing all the management* in various places in the world. After WWII, they realised: "You know what, we're tired and worn out and everyone wants us out anyway. We're going low energy to rebuild at home. Someone else can step in if they want."
* a.k.a. "Colonialism". Management is an odd choice of synonym I grant you, but once you've got a colony, it's in your interests to run things in good order. Until the locals rightfully kick you out, that is.
This is a very naive understanding of the history of decolonisation. Decolonisation wasn’t a western initiative, it was done because the colonies were literally rebelling against their European oppressors, great part of that through Soviet funding and arming.
…unless they oppose western control of the region like Patrice Lumumba, Fidel Castro or Mosaddeq.
This is also an oversimplification.
Colonies were always rebelling. The main issue that led to decolonisation was that there was no longer the resources required to maintain these big empires.
Coal was more expensive, troops were more expensive, everything now cost too much to maintain.
It’s the end phase of every empire.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis
Took 10 years until 1956
It’s not about USA, it’s about (powerful) countries in general. China, USA, more restricted also Russia, Iran, … If someone has power (or wants to have it looks on North Korea) they also want to keep it.
They want more power, they don’t just want to keep it. I don’t get it, isn’t it absolutely exhausting?
What exactly has China done militarily over the past 45 years that leads you to compare it to the US? China is predominantly a peaceful world power which hasn’t invaded any country over the past half a century.
Also definitely not genocidal. /s
Nor threatening any country.
Huh? China isn’t genocidal, what are you talking about?
lol
There are privileges to being an empire and the capitalists in the US continue to use that empire to get access to those privileges. Favorable trade, commercial, and financing terms are a big one.
Also the US war industry pushes the country to intervene. You can see how there are interventionist and isolationist movements in the US fighting right now over how much the US gets directly involved in Iran-Israel.
I’ve heard a theory that when new presidents come into office they usually aren’t interested in being involved in conflicts. What happens is that something will happen in the world and the newly elected president will have an enormous amount of power at his disposal. Wanting to do good in the world the president will typically go for it.
I wish I could recall the name of the theory or provide references; maybe someone else can chime in.
I don’t know the name of the theory, but it’s sure noticeable that candidates have diverse values while sitting presidents act earily similar.
A generous assumption could be that they have consistent advisors.
A realist assumption could be that they have consistent funding sources.
A particularly dark assumption is that they face the same threats to their loved ones.
And of course, an adorable meme child says “Why not both?”
Hammer/Nail Theory?
It mostly started with the cold war. The US was obsessed with stopping the perceived threat of communism. In the process, it discovered the benefits of power mongering and war profiteering.
It most definitely did not start in the cold war. The US was happily invading and controlling the politics of as much of the continent of the Americas well before WW2, with stuff such as the United Fruit Company or the Big Stick Ideology. The 1898 invasion of Cuba and establishment of a military junta comes to mind.
City on a hill bay bay /s
Remember ol’ Khrushchev when he was ridin’ high with that Sputnik satellite
He told us yankee boys, he’s gunna fill the skies with them shiny new satellites
He said “Hey Mr. Eisenhower, watcha think of my Sputnik satellite?”
Well, Ike reeled his head back
Looked him in the eye, that’s a mighty fine satellite.
But I’mma gonna get me one better, just you wait and see
I’mma gonna get me one better, you can’t get the best of me
I’mma gonna get me one better, the baddest one around
I’mma gonna get me one better, ‘cause’ I got the biggest balls in town.
The main reason is that if we stop being the biggest shark in the tank, the next two biggest sharks (China and Russia) can’t be trusted to not feast on the smaller sharks. And if they do feast, they will become too large for the American shark to deal with.
The US is already feeding on the smaller sharks, and has been for decades. Look at their foreign policy in Central and South America, South East Asia, the Middle East.
The only difference is that they’ve been feasting on other nations and not the West. China and Russia don’t have those restraints. All three of them are horrible, but America hasn’t been horrible to us until just recently.
Centuries*.
I understand why you’d say that about modern Russia, but how on Earth are you comparing China to the USA? In what war has China been in the past 40 years? What countries has it been exploiting?
I’m sorry, this seems to imply the US doesn’t “feast on the smaller sharks”. It went as far as threatening Japan with sanctions because they were considering “digital sovereignty” with TRON OS as opposed to Windows at some point. Japan is almost a non-optional ally.
And also one good solution of preventing someone from doing that is arming the smaller sharks. Yet USA seems even more against more equal spread of technologies and weapons than the “next two sharks”.
Uhmm what? The US does exactly that with NATO and nuclear weapons stationed in Europe.
No. NATO is an extension of this particular shark. Countries in NATO or allied to it are abusing with impunity those not in.
I think it’s even simpler than this. I think any government/state/group with power wants to hold and expand it. I’m not sure there is a group of people that exist that wouldn’t work to exercise control if they could. And I’m not defending the US, I just think it may be an inherently human thing to do.
Then you’d be wrong. Famously, after the Russian Revolution in 1917, the Russian Socialist Federation of Soviet Republics, under the leadership of the Bolsheviks, created the first constitution in history that granted the unilateral right of self-determination and secession to all peoples of the former Russian Empire. This is how Poland gained its independence in 1918, as well as Finland and many other countries formerly part of the Russian Empire. Interesting episode of history.
So how did they get from 1918 to 1968?
In 1918 Poland decided to unilaterally invade modern Ukraine and Belarus because of nationalist expansionist beliefs, you can read about it on the wikipedia article or the Polish-Ukrainian war.
In 1939 the Soviet Union recovered those territories and gave them back to the Belarusian and Ukrainian SSRs, which Poles are still crying about. If you care about seeing maps representing this I can give you sources no problem since I’m arguing from good faith.
After 1945, Poland was forced by the USSR to give reparations in order to compensate for the lack of mutual defense agreement against Nazis before 1939, which was a mistaken policy that led to a lot of insatisfaction in Poland. After the mid-1950s, the Soviet Union removed these reparations and instead started subsidising the Polish socialist nation with cheap resources and industrialising it.
What part of 1969 is relevant to you?
Please be respectful. Millions of Americans just protested the Trump administration’s policies during the No Kings Day gatherings. Citizens are not the same thing as their administration. Please do not broadly label them the same. Thank you.
You can ask, but you will still keep getting side-eyes. Source: am Hungarian.
We’re accustomed to the side-eyes. Feel free to continue those.
(If possible) I’m absolutely going to visit your country and ramble on about how my great-grand-something is from there, and how good it feels to be back, and then I’ll buy souvenirs and permanently incorrectly adopt parts of your heritage that amuse me. That’s all on me. Guilty on all counts.
But I’m not a fan of my government being a pain-in-the-ass on the international scale.
As a pain-in-the-ass American, I value having a non-pain-in-the-ass government, so that I can still travel the world and be…uh…myself.
Uh…I maybe could probably have presented this better…
I have an answer different from the others.
US economy depends on the US intellectual property system, a few US monopolist companies and the US dollar, and the financial system.
Especially the intellectual property system. However different laws can be in various countries, in fact everybody tries to follow US law.
It means that a lot of things produces elsewhere mean royalties to US companies, and a lot of things can’t be produced without permission, control of markets, planned development of microelectronics and tech in particular, yadda-yadda.
So - if, in some hypothetical situation, that IP system is undone, with some countries having similar laws, some more like USSR’s “public domain by default with some fixed payment to patent holders”, and all the intermediate variants, then you’ll just have a second depression. Because a huge part of the economy will shrink.
US foreign debt is a meme subject, but honestly, if USD stops being the world’s most reliable currency, you’ll also probably have a default.
US actual industrial production (what doesn’t shrink as easily) is not so impressive when looking at its size. A lot about US level of life doesn’t really match the efficiency of the economy. Say, if you look at Germany, life there is very different. In some ways better, maybe, but many things normal in the US are not achievable there.
My point is - the American IP laws were spread around by pressure. Not just that, but sometimes the monopoly roles of American companies. Part of that pressure is the military guarantor role.
If that stops being relevant, a lot of things which were a given for your economy for many years will stop existing. And for a few other economies too. It might not look as bad as the USSR’s collapse, but it will probably look as ruined and unpredictable as the 1960s world.
I’m curious what is normal in the US and not achievable in Germany.
German here: just creating and selling something is one thing that jumps to my mind.
The concept of “I have an idea and a bit of money so I’ll just found a company” is … Tiresome. Possible, yes, but the legal hurdles both good and bad are ridiculous. You need way more time than in the US just for the formal overhead and even then you are way more in it with your own private existence.
As founder “beschränkte Haftung” is not as limited as it sounds at first if you’re not firm in legalese for example.
Food delivery as something normal, I’d think. Plumber coming soon after being called. Appointment with doctor to a close enough date.
Those things affected by actually having labor rights and less dependence on colonial mechanisms.
Get your bullshit startup valued in the billions by Wall Street
We’re taught to compete with each other basically at birth cos that’s what benefits capitalism and no one will break the cycle of this evil shit
You could argue that the US was pretty much bullied into that role by Nazi Germany and later on the CCCP.
I don’t think “Americans” is a good term considering a little over half of Americans prefer non-interventionist policies. Ironically, interventionist policies are bipartisan, with a large portion of both democrats and republicans taking neo-isolationist approaches to American foreign policy. Intervention can be one of four major fields referred to in politics as DIME (diplomatic, informational, military, and economic). Examples would include UN for diplomatic (we intervene via power held in the UN), 5 eyes for informational (we allow NSA to spy on allies, as long as those allies provide us with material about our own citizens), military (republicans prefer big bombs and boots on ground, Obama loved his drone strikes), and economic like NAFTA.
I feel you may be viewing this solely from a military perspective which is why I wanted to highlight these other means. Liberal IR theory actually encourages DIME, via rule of law and consensus via other democratic nation states, I.e. if Canada, and the EU want us to intervene in the Middle East, should we mind our own business? Liberal IR theory would suggest not, and that we are not being a world player. The main hypothesis in Liberal IR theory is actually the same as its more aggressive big brother called Realism or more commonly known form as “Realpolitik”. Both posit that the international order exists in a form of anarchy and it is the responsibility (whether hegemonic or multipolar) to control this anarchy via law ( for liberalism) or via power (for realism).
Generally, more of the academics you will read on this topic whether liberal or realists will claim that Americans were pulled in via a vacuum and didn’t force its way in. There are also deeper theories in this about Bipolar and regional hegemony that better explain the post WWII world. Pre-Soviet collapse, the first world appreciated the aggressive American approach as it lent a balance against the aggressive USSR. If it weren’t for the USSR, America would have returned to the western hemisphere and not intervened unless asked to by Western Europe
We were unspoiled by WW2. This gave us an unnatural ability to pull ahead economically while other nations rebuilt. We taught our citizens that this was deserved and the propaganda has stood until pretty recently. This unfair advantage is slowly then quickly unwinding.
“America is the best! Nobody could match our manufacturing!”
Well no, you were just the only hevay industrial country that wasn’t bombed in the 40s. America didn’t rocket ahead through the 60s, they just helped kneecap the competition.
And for the god damn 10th time, Mexico and China didn’t take the manufacturing. They didn’t raid the US and deport Ford to them. Ford walked it all over very politely.
US manufacturing was dominant through the thirties and forties. It really shone in the 40s under a war time economy. It was a sleeping giant and the world knew it. Pennsylvania outputted more steel than Japan and Germany combined. Audacious goals set by President Roosevelt were mocked by Hitler as audacious Hollywood goals. The US easily surpassed these goals.
It was an amazing display of competence. The only other countries to match the intensity of growth would the USSR during the five year plan and the PRC during the eighties. But both of them were starting from an agricultural economy. The USSR never reached the American manufacturing peak and China has surpassed.
The unprecendent dominance is due in no small part because the rivals needed to rebuild. But under representing America’s position with regards to labor, capital, resources and state coordinated mobilization would be a serious error.
America was the standard for a Democratic Republic after WW2.
after the war we helped most of Europe return to normal and even improved quality of life and living standards. part of that help came with stipulations on how the US had control within those countries that had help.
Had the US not stepped in at the time to stabilize Europe, another war would have likely happened and another, and another.
My guess, most of Europe would have fallen under Russian rule, or at the very least heavily influenced by, if the US didn’t step up.
I suppose European’s don’t look at how bad the war left Europe and often just want to forget the atrocities, but that’s not an excuse for blaming the hand that helped you in your time of need.
People turned to Russia specifically because they disapproved US imperialism and wanted to counter its power, while avoiding being doomed by capitalism. I’m not saying this was the ideal solution, but at least if they succeeded we wouldn’t be in the position we are today
US imperialism didn’t happen until the 1950s, well after the war.
this was, in part, due to the private investments from large American companies at the time. in-fact, the American economy was booming for three reasons
in a sense, because Europe was so weak after the war it only fed US corporate imperialism. Had Europe been able to stand on its own the United States might not have had such an industrial boon and similarities between Europe and the US might have not been so significant.
one might even draw the strong correlation between American corporate interests and total subservience of government alliances at that time. our government had, up until then, mostly stayed neutral to concerns between corporations and citizens. this changed though because of the newly created military industrial complex that was created to feed the war. afterwards you had defense contractors that saw dollar signs, and the tradition still goes to this day.
speculation on my part, the political climate of the current day is the fruit bore from that union of corporate and state all those years ago and this has been the agenda of the American elite all along and they are currently in the final seconds of the “game of thrones”.
Absolute whitewashing of the USian crimes against humanity all over the first half of the 20th century. Examples: big stick ideology
The US also constantly did shit like this in the Americas all over the 19th century, see United Fruit Company or Military Government of Cuba.
The US didn’t step in with the Marshall plan to stabilize Europe against war, the US did so in order to prevent socialist uprisings all over Western Europe, and to create ties between European capital and US capital so that Western Europe would support the US in its imperialism.
Just like America itself England can be blamed. Since there are already a bunch of WW2 answers, I’ll go back to post WW1 where England and France decided to carve up the middle east in their own interests. This created a bunch of countries with boarders that made little sense, mainly so one big influencal leader could give countries to his family members. Then jump ahead to an Australian showing up in Iran agreeing to look for oil and if he finds any he keeps 90% of the profits for 60 years. Once he found oil and made a bunch of money England said that is too good of a deal and just took over the company and changing its name to BP. Iran said this deal sucks and demanded a better deal, England said fuck you and went and asked America to step in and help them keep their deal. America sent the CIA in to cause problems, and the CIA was successful. The new leader still forced England to accept a more fair deal, but pissed off the people of Iran. So when the dictator was overthrown the new leadership was founded on a very popular policy of death to America because the CIA did what England asked them to do.
The USA was securing international trade lines. After WW2, they started doing it to counter communism and build friendships. (Cannot attack your trading partners.)
This was not entirely popular with Americans, see “Team America: World Police”.
Another country or coalition could step up. Just build a navy that rivals the USA one to secure shipping lanes.
Eisenhower warned us.
America isn’t the brand the they created as their image.
People just distract themselves from reality… We aren’t even natural humans anymore we are products created by their marketing psychological manipulation absence of the essence of true humanity.
Something’s going on. And people should start acting like it. Things haven’t been okay for a long time regardless of left or right presidents. As if a criminal enterprise has gained control of the nation and is spreading to other nations. I don’t mean America is spreading… I mean, if not just an essence, the organized crime that is orchestrating a coup in America is also out for other nations, and that world domination and world conquest is still a very real dream to eyes of many.
There is something stronger than trump and his minions. Something well funded. And remember America is young. There world wide organizations older than America.
If your not thinking with the mind of “the game”… Like criminals… Then you aren’t ever going to get a above or conquer what’s grabbing America by the balls and spreading across the globe.
Don’t ever get marketed and manipulated by that emotional glorious pride again it’s promoted that way to get you to live for it instead of genuine humanity. We have been somewhat desensitized to traditional war… But there’s a psychological social war… And fighting it means more than protesting… Because it’s all in the mind.
People weren’t lying… I’m not lying… Snowden wasn’t lying… Bushnell wasn’t lying… The people that go crazy and snap doing horrific things… Weren’t lying… They just don’t know how to handle the weight.
When you come to, and realize… You understand the war has been there for a long time and honest genuine humanity is far far behind.
Most of the Republicans and Democrats both citizens and politicians are gone already, as pawns, without an understanding of the real game. Like kids used by cartels, gangs and mafias. There is a bigger enemy that isn’t marketed to people. The real enemy hides while using people as pawns.
Meanwhile in another thread I saw some Brits bitching about America not entering WWII until the end of 1941.
You’re the bad guy for trying to stay out of international affairs, you’re the bad guy for getting into international affairs. If you find yourself forced to play a game you can’t win, Just start hurting people.
Whenever I’ve seen that, it’s usually in response to America taking the credit for saving the war despite “barely being there”. On the other hand, you could say adding the American force weighed the odds into the allies’ favor, so the swift end wouldn’t have happened naturally . On the other foot, America wouldn’t have built up enough arsenal to have that much effect had they not waited. And on your neighbor’s hand, America seemed to sit idly as they watched nazis be nazis because no no, the guy has some valid points
So you want us to instantly invade any country whose leader we don’t like. KAY!
If that’s your takeaway, sure. It’s more about the 1939 invasion of Poland, the French/British declaring war the same year, the 1940 Blitz bombing of England, and 1940 Battle of France.
Which were America’s problem…how exactly? I will 100% grant you, Germany deserved a swift lead pipe to the mouth for how the 1940’s went. The United States of America, an independent nation in a different hemisphere to which none of that happened, was trying to stay out of it because Europe is not our fault.
We had no mutual defense treaties with anyone in Europe in the 1930’s. It wasn’t our fight. In what way was the safety or sovereignty of Poland our problem in 1939? Precisely how many American lives did we owe Poland at the time?
All you little European nations are so big and proud until the goddamn krauts start getting uppity then it’s “Why didn’t you invade a foreign nation that didn’t do anything to you, Uncle Sam?”
This is why we have NATO. Now we do have a mutual defense pact with much of Europe, so if anybody invades a member country, the rest of us come running.
This drives me nuts with the news cycle. “The US won’t get involved in X”. The media shows how awful fighting/revolt/etc are in X. “Why won’t the US do something about the horror in X!?” The US gets involved and, of course, some civilians die. This is guaranteed in war. The media then goes “The US is awful for killing civilians in X!” The US pulls out of X. The media goes “Why has the US abandoned X!?”
You sure are an american since you dont know your own history.
I want Finland to rule the world.
The last time Finland invaded a nation, they did it together with the Nazis. I don’t think you want Finland to rule the world.
Okay but in a hypothetical scenario where Finland ruled the world (as it exists today), I highly, highly doubt they would be siding with fascists. I don’t see your point. Thanks for leading me to some Wikipedia articles to read though.
Finland currently doesn’t recognise Palestine as a country, they’re currently, as it exists today, siding with the genocidal maniacs in the Israeli government.
That is unfortunate. However, I don’t see why you’re so insistent. You appear to be taking my original comment more seriously than I did. Sorry I didn’t do research on Finland’s position on Palestine or of their involvement in World War II. It was not relevant at the time. I just happen to appreciate Finnish art and culture.
Edit: Sadly, my country doesn’t recognize Palestine either. There isn’t a whole hell of a lot anyone here (excluding our corrupt leaders obviously) can do about it.
Perfection is the enemy of progress
I mean, yeah, sure. But if perfection is two steps to the left and you refuse…why?
It was either surrender to Soviet Union (legendary dicks) or ally with Nazis (had no reason to stay and conquer us). We picked the lesser evil.
If “the lesser evil” to you are nazis, you’re a nazi
If the lesser evil would’ve been Soviet Union, we would’ve been a) communists and b) not independent anymore.
You famously lost the war, and you’re still an independent nation. Finland obtained independence in 1917 because of the communists, namely the Bolshevik constitution, allowing for the first time in human history the right of self-determination and secession. If it hadn’t been for the communist you’d be a province of Russia.
a large part of finland is a province of russia. Karelia belongs the the finns.
Have you asked Karelians what they think of that? Or are you arguing purely from nationalist beliefs?
But they had the guts to change sides mid-war.
I also want that, but only for the future generations to know that “we were Finnished”
After WW2 the US became addicted to being the world police and many other countries were happy to have the US cover the cost of their defense or income from hosting US bases. Selling arms is also big business and the DOD justifies it by saying that it keeps personnel and manufacturing lines for weapons running.
Pretty much when the US was the only super power to survive WWII unscathed.
Also, having developed atomic hellfire, and the will to use it (twice), kinda makes you the big kid on the playground.
They love to take credit for WWII while completely ignoring the part Canada played
Many countries played an important role, not just Canada. And no, not all of us take credit for it.
Canada’s role is adequately acknowledged, our Nederland brothers send flowers every year
The US taking credit at all in Europe is silly but they did help with the Japanese theatre
There will always be a Nederland Canada bromance.
This right here. The US was isolationist prior to WWII but then got attacked and drawn in to active war.
Since the mainland of US was untouched by war directly, and industry boomed post depression and during the war they came out of it better off than Europe, which had a lot of rebuilding to do.
As a result of the war and the need for defense they established bases all across the globe and for the last 80-90 years as the political system grew more corrupt the increase of American hegemony followed.
South America wants to have a word with you.
After World War I, the United States returned to limited isolationism primarily due to war disillusionment, economic concerns, and political opposition to international organizations like the League of Nations
Two things can be true at the same time.
The citizens, in general, don’t. We want to do the same thing every other country’s people want - live our lives and hopefully give our kids a good or better one.
I have no fucking clue what the government is doing to make these decisions.
I’m gonna answer from the perspective of someone who believes the world is a better place when it is led by America without reverting to a thin jingoist ideology. These aren’t my views, but a steel man of someone I would disagree with.
In the wake of the world wars, we realized that the world is best off with one power to lead the world. No powers and multiple powers will result in another world war. We were the best position to take that role after WW2 and resist the Soviet union’s attempt to gaining that position.
Many of these countries don’t do what America says because America says it. Heck, many go against what we say. But they believe in a better world and when they remember that, they undtand that America is putting themselves in the most danger by clearing that path for the rest of the free world.
The problems we have at home are pretty limited. Most of these problems are born out of laziness. But we keep the criminals in check both at home and abroad.
If we didn’t step up after ww2, the world would have slipped into another world war or deem communism run rampant.
The civilized world at the end of WW2. And under our leadership, the world is safer and healthier for it.
From communism to extreme religious views, we are the only ones who are capable and willing to step up and protect the world against that. It’s a difficult and thankless job.
I also believed the world was a better place when the US led, but when anyone other than Trump was in power. At least with the US, we had a clear ideal of justice being normalized, and you could feel the progressive momentum with every passing year. We don’t get that among the other contesting world superpowers. But I don’t think the US stands for that anymore, thanks to meddling countries like Russia, but that doesn’t mean I want China or, especially, Russia to succeed them. They lobotomized the US and they showed their real face in return.
This is a very America centric veiw and even if it is a steel man it deserves a counterpoint.
After WWII most of the nations who were old empire builders were decimated. The general feeling was even those on the winning side didn’t feel like they’d won. The rebuilding was slow and economic austerity lasted for decades.
The American prosperity of the 1950’s and 60’s wasn’t “normal”. America didn’t have international competition it otherwise would have and that power gave them bargaining rights which made them both culturally dominant as they projected a sense of prosperity and politically powerful due to the resources at their disposal. Opposition to America was potentially disastrous and America threw their weight around like crazy. They expanded their military with these resources and established bases in countries too weak to oppose them.
America came out of the war with something of a Big Damn Hero complex. Communism, for all it’s perceived threat was also a handy excuse to pursue expansion and in keeping American supremacy in place. Whether countries wantes to be “protected” or not really has a lot of across the board nuance. A lot of American political will was coercive and a lot of the things done in the fight for “democracy” were disproportionate and horrific.
Really a lot of the American supremacy at bottom was might makes right. With the world finally recovering economically and now able to speak as equals the US is using measures that demand a return to that economic supremacy and stranglehold. The larger sore points are growing. The world doesn’t need one big power in charge. They don’t need a king with a standing army. They want to make their own choices and have freedoms to not conform to whatever America wants and the attitudes Americans show to disregard that will is garnering response.
Because it’s an empire. Everything else is clever marketing.
Because people in power only want one thing - more power. They only fear one thing - loosing power.
*Losing
Every empire has those aspirations.
There are many ways to achieve it through the complex relationships between countries and societies (e.g. soft power, cultural influence, militar control, etc) but an empire willing to try it at any cost with any means will always succeed for longer as an empire…
Anybody who thinks about that question enough always realizes they don’t want that kind of power and control. Sometimes people think about it partly, get excited by the promises of power, but only misrepresented by their own misunderstandings, and mistakenly think they do.
Nobody actually does, just not everybody realizes it fully.
Because authoritarians convinced the American people that military interventions prevent terrorist attacks to distract them from the reality which is that terrorist attacks are caused by American interventions.
It’s only possible to convince Americans of that because they are shockingly ignorant of history and they believe whatever the warmongers tell them.
Kinda how they were “last man standing” in WW2. Everybody else got severely fucked and they won them over by with the Marshall aid program which got us to a bi-polar world with NATO in which the US was the hegemony.
After the fall of the Soviet Union and before the rise of China there was only one superpower that could act as such militarily and then US continued their power trip.
I’m German and went to the US for a year as a high school student.
My US history teacher literally told us that the US is the world police. Because of that I believe that many Americans think that way.
Put South Park comment here.
Nobody gave ‘murica any right, they just imposed themselves. The simple answer is imperialism. USA was always a power and money hungry bitch and has been putting nations, populations and markets under their boots (not always thru military force) for profit since the late 1800s. Yes, they’ve been an evil empire for that long. Latin America as a whole has suffered many hells so uncle sam could keep commodities’ prices super low.
I think you’re setting the timeline about a century and a half too late. The people that would become the first US citizens were genociding the Native Americans as early as 1750
No one, powerful countries just assume that they are needed everywhere in the world so they start acting like narcissistic bitch like US.