Why do .ml users get a bad rep?
from muxika@lemmy.ml to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 11:58
https://lemmy.ml/post/40020607

Is it bad takes, controversial posts, or something else?

#nostupidquestions

threaded - newest

Skullgrid@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 12:11 next collapse

.ml is the official one created by the lemmy guys, who are tankies, and that instance has a lot of tankie opinions and bad takes.

pilferjinx@piefed.social on 08 Dec 12:54 collapse

Tankies traditionally but more recently pro-Russian imperial fascists, ruZi if you will.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 13:03 next collapse

Same thing in most cases.

pilferjinx@piefed.social on 08 Dec 13:16 collapse

I’d like to fully agree, but modern Russia is not even close to the old school soviet which they idolize.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 13:20 collapse

Also true, which makes their modern Russia apologia that much more baffling. Well, not really, as any US adversary is good in their eyes.

angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com on 08 Dec 15:41 next collapse

Is Russia even a US adversary anymore?

ohulancutash@feddit.uk on 08 Dec 17:43 next collapse

Russia sees everyone else as either Russian or enemy of Russia.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 17:59 next collapse

Depends on your frame of reference, but I’d still say yes even if the president is a Russian asset.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 01:03 collapse

You seem to think that having Trump on your side makes you pro America, but I strongly disagree.

Putin didn’t campaign for his pet Trump to be president in offer to strengthen and enrich the USA!

angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com on 09 Dec 02:49 collapse

You seem to think that having Trump on your side makes you pro America, but I strongly disagree.

In terms of population I don’t think having Trump on your side makes you pro America, but “adversary” is a geopolitical term.

On the stage of geopolitics, the current US government acts in favor of Russia.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 06:15 collapse

On the stage of geopolitics, the current US government acts in favor of Russia.

True, yes.

But I don’t think it’s reciprocated!

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 00:20 collapse

It’s only baffling if you don’t listen to the actual reasons people believe things and just assume it’s because Russia used to be socialist, regardless of how many people say otherwise.

Liberals will refuse to listen to our explanations of our positions and then call our positions bizarre and indecipherable. Because you get your understanding of our positions from stories you make up and pass around about us that have no basis in reality.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 01:59 next collapse

I know I shouldn’t bite, and it’ll all end in tears, but this bait is too tempting!

if you don’t listen to the actual reasons people believe things and just assume it’s because Russia used to be socialist

What, specifically is good about specifically Russia as it is nowadays, from a leftist perspective, that isn’t because it used to be socialist?!

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 03:49 collapse

I never said tankies support Russia because it used to be (allegedly) socialist, I’m saying it’s wild you promote it as AES when it fucking isn’t.

And I’ve heard the apologia for the Ukraine invasion, and it’s all bullshit.

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 03:57 next collapse

I’m saying it’s wild you promote it as AES when it fucking isn’t.

And I’m saying no one considers Russia to be AES, it’s a strawman that libs tell each other about us until they forget they made it up.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 05:00 collapse

Actually you’re right, I misspoke. The comment said that modern Russia isn’t anywhere near USSR ideals, to which I said makes it even more baffling that tankies support it.

So yes, it’s not AES, which makes it obvious that tankies supporting Russia are anti-us campists and not anti imperialists.

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 07:49 collapse

By that logic, you don’t even need to know my stance on Russia, because the fact that I opposed the war in Afghanistan “proves I’m not anti-imperialist.” The Taliban definitely isn’t socialist either, after all.

Cowbee@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 11:21 collapse

Not a single person says the Russian Federation is socialism. You’re confusing people critically supporting its movements against the US Empire with people believing it to be socialist. They do have rising socialist sympathies among the populace, but that doesn’t make them socialist.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 12:21 collapse

Yeah already took the correction below.

Cowbee@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 12:32 collapse

Gotcha.

INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone on 09 Dec 11:12 collapse

I got banned for calling that yogurtz guy a ruski simp.

And I’ll do it again.

watson@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 12:14 next collapse

After four days on that instance, have you not figured it out for yourself yet?

You will, eventually

Edit: a bit of instant-hopping is not unusual in the beginning. Part of the Lemmy experience is finding an instance where you feel comfortable. That might take a while and more than a few attempts.

urheber@discuss.tchncs.de on 08 Dec 12:35 next collapse

I don’t think I’ve ever posted on a community in my instance… But yeah, I’m not federated with .ml, so I am happy.

TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip on 08 Dec 12:37 next collapse

Just a side note
The instance you’re on doesn’t really matter very much if you never read the local feed. If you do, you’ll definitely notice the local vibe sooner or later.

If you’re on an instance that is widely defederated, you may also notice that it’s difficult to find communities. Also, people may comment on your instance if it happens to be particularly notorious. The server hardware and bandwidth may also matter in some extreme cases.

Other than that, instances don’t really matter that much.

Samskara@sh.itjust.works on 08 Dec 12:57 next collapse

The instance matters if you post about anything political. If your instance admins don’t like your posts, they will delete your account. Mods and admins of other instances can only ban you.

watson@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 13:05 collapse

To clarify, the instance only matters if that instance is, itself, inherently political (many ARE). There are many other instances which are apolitical and don’t censor posts based on political bias, unless it is especially extreme, but those are exceptions that are explained when it occurs, which is rarely.

leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 Dec 23:30 collapse

Mostly this is an issue with .ml and .world.

The others will often tell you their bias before you join, often in the name itself.

watson@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 00:01 next collapse

It’s my philosophy that going around, uninformed and uninitiated, and even getting burned a few times is a great way, and possibly the best way, to discover where you really belong on Lemmy. I believe it to be a formative and even a necessary experience.

That’s really my advice for how to find the “correct instance for you”. Everyone here got there by trial and error, and I believe it is a formative enough experience that everyone should go through it. Once it became extremely easy to join Reddit, that’s when it started to go to shit.

It is (nearly) impossible to join and participate in Lemmy if you are a tech-illiterate moron. By the very fact that anyone is here means that everyone at least has a middling level of tech literacy and is somewhat intelligent, or else they would not only never have heard of Lemmy, and would not have been able to figure out how to join. Reddit used to be like that, once upon a time.

Cowbee@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 11:20 collapse

To be fair, Lemmy.ml does as well, it forces you to copy a section of The Principles of Communism before joining.

RobotToaster@mander.xyz on 08 Dec 13:06 next collapse

If you’re on an instance that is widely defederated

Or one that widely defederates.

I believe mander is the only instance that has a policy of only defederating illegal content.

In contrast .world has a huge de-federation list.

TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip on 08 Dec 14:49 collapse

I took a look at those stats a while back, and the defederation procedure totally goes both ways.

As far as I can tell, bigger instances have bumped into issues that were resolved through defederation. Smaller instances haven’t faced those kinds of problems, so they haven’t defederated with any instances yet.

If all the big instances have defederated your instance, that’s clear sign that there might be something wrong with that place. If your instance has defederated from a bunch of other instances, take a look at the size of that instance before drawing conclusions. For example lemmy.world is a special case and a clear outlier.

Blackfeathr@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 15:01 collapse

Why does Lemmy.world defederate so much?

TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip on 08 Dec 16:54 next collapse

Haven’t asked the admins, but here’s my guess.
Being the most well known instance means that you get a lot of traffic. Let’s say that 1% of the people using your instance are annoying morons. In a smaller instance that 1% translates to maybe one ban a month or whatever. In a bigger place, it becomes a constant onslaught stupid idiot bullshit nobody has the time or energy to deal with. Either you get a bunch of admins and mods to deal with that nonsense or you start banning users more aggressively. If that doesn’t help, you may need to look at the instance where those troublemakers come from. If you notice that a particular instance pops up disproportionately often, you might want to consider defederating from it.

However, some part of that drama is public on fediseer. Have a look. Just scroll down to censures given and read the reasons why lemmy.world has defederated from so many instances.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 09 Dec 01:58 collapse

To maintain an overton window firmly within liberalism. Pre-emptively defederating hexbear “as a last resort” gave the game away.

GrammarPolice@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 11:29 collapse

If this was actually the case, they would’ve been long defederated from ml. That is yet to happen as of now

EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 08 Dec 13:15 next collapse

There are some exceptions to this. Blahaj blocks downvotes, for example. You can downvote a post on Blahaj, but people (like me) with accounts on Blahaj cannot downvote nor can they see downvotes. I’m sure there are other instances doing similar things, as it sounds like Lemmy has a robust set of instance settings/options.

TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip on 08 Dec 14:44 collapse

That is a good point. Some instances have special rules and settings like that. Sounds a bit rare though. I haven’t heard of many instances that put the extra effort into customizing the experience on that level

grandel@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 19:24 collapse

The instance you’re on doesn’t really matter very much if you never read the local feed.

Yeah, Ive been on .ml for like 5 years as of writing this and I just browse my subscribed feed. My experience has been great!

TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip on 09 Dec 08:17 collapse

I’ve tried reading my local and federated feeds but found little value in them. Most posts are either too niche, too uninteresting or just fly straight over my head. Consequently, I prefer to stick with the subscribed feed almost exclusively. That’s where I can reliably find stuff worth my time.

muxika@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 13:09 collapse

No, I don’t think 4 days is enough to distinguish between a user’s hot take and an instance’s position. I didn’t focus on the local feed, so I wouldn’t have known. Most of the posts I’ve seen have been centered on Linux and privacy.

As I keep scrolling, though, I can see some troubling posts.

watson@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 13:13 collapse

OK, I apologize for my tone. I’m not here to criticize you. I am legitimately interested in helping:

All of those things you mentioned? Do all of that. Focus on your local feed, check out comments that originate from your instance. That’s how you will get a good feel for those who subscribed to your instance.

And, as others have mentioned, you can sign up to any instance and still interact, however, you are still beholden to the rules of rest of Lemmy. Follow the rules of whatever community you’re commenting or posting in, sure, but, aside from the instances that are defederated, you can interact, post, comment, vote, whatever, regardless of your home instance. It’s just that a lot of people take particular care in choosing their home instance, and they choose a home instance that sociopolitically aligns with their own views.

This is neither necessary, nor demanded from the vast majority of Lemmy users, but it is good practice. It’s just how Lemmy was designed, and if you’re not interested in doing that, fine.

Like any other online interaction forum, what really matters is the quality of your posts and or comments.

Edited: spells and grams

muxika@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 13:22 collapse

It’s all good, I appreciate it. I’ve been approaching Lemmy as a reddit alternative, so I’m still learning about how to explore the fediverse. I’ll review instances more critically, thank you.

cabbage@piefed.social on 08 Dec 12:29 next collapse

The admins over there have some profoundly questionable views, which tends to push away reasonable people and attract bootlickers.

The problem is not the users as much as the site itself and its admins. I wish reasonable people (not bootlickers) would stop using lemmy.ml and go somewhere better. Lemmy.ml’s biggest function right now is to scare away good people who would have been happy elsewhere.

nithou@piefed.social on 08 Dec 12:53 next collapse

Learned about this today, was mainly on lemmy.ml because lemmy.world was blocking too much instances -_- Now trying piefed.social

marx@piefed.social on 08 Dec 14:34 collapse

I’ve enjoyed piefed a lot so far. I think it’s a good choice.

AmazingWizard@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 18:53 collapse

The thing that is funny about Piefed vs. Lemmy is the level of authoritarian control the admin has over what you see and whether votes count or not. Specifically, they can open each instance connected with them and add a vote weight to the instance. So if they didn’t like ML, instead of blocking the instance, you can set the weight to 0, and then those users would have no idea that their votes do not contribute to a rank at all. You can take an individual user and set their account to ban comments, ban posts, or both, which effectively shadow bans a user. If they’re remote, the comments, or posts never arrive at the piefed instance. None of this is visible to the end user, by the way, no alerts that this is happening to your account. You can be kicked from a community by moderators, an action that you will not even know is happening to you.

It leaves you to wonder how much of what you’re seeing is an accurate tally of votes and score. It seems driven purely to keep out opposing perspectives and stifle thought. None of these “tanky” instances have this level of user and content manipulation at their disposal. The Admin of a piefed instance can shape the feed silently, and without users even knowing it is happening, through the use of vote weights. Which is a pretty nasty feature if I’m being honest. One of the things people assumed was happening on Reddit was that the feed wasn’t an honest representation of user activity, that the feed itself was ideologically bias (one way or the other), and yet piefed explicitly gives you those tools.

Skavau@piefed.social on 09 Dec 20:43 next collapse

The thing that is funny about Piefed vs. Lemmy is the level of authoritarian control the admin has over what you see and whether votes count or not. Specifically, they can open each instance connected with them and add a vote weight to the instance. So if they didn’t like ML, instead of blocking the instance, you can set the weight to 0, and then those users would have no idea that their votes do not contribute to a rank at all.

Are any Piefed instances doing any of this right now?

You can take an individual user and set their account to ban comments, ban posts, or both, which effectively shadow bans a user. If they’re remote, the comments, or posts never arrive at the piefed instance. None of this is visible to the end user, by the way, no alerts that this is happening to your account.

I’m not aware of this. In any case, the ban functions on Piefed are undergoing changes right now anyway.

You can be kicked from a community by moderators, an action that you will not even know is happening to you.

When you say “moderators” do you mean admins here or community moderators?

The Admin of a piefed instance can shape the feed silently, and without users even knowing it is happening, through the use of vote weights. Which is a pretty nasty feature if I’m being honest. One of the things people assumed was happening on Reddit was that the feed wasn’t an honest representation of user activity, that the feed itself was ideologically bias (one way or the other), and yet piefed explicitly gives you those tools.

I can see a valid use-case for smaller instances that might want to elevate their own communities within their own local feeds. I think it would be pretty poor if any larger instance used this tool, but I am sure that all of these toggles can display publicly - so users on an instance would know if their experience is being gamed or curated by the admins of a local instance.

rimu@piefed.social on 09 Dec 21:10 collapse

I have just added code which makes the instance vote weight visible in the UI - https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/commit/04b54e25f44f54420c247152323c90c4a3360a02

You can go to https://piefed.social/instances and check the vote weight of any instance. It’ll be very boring tho because they’re all set to “Votes are weighted at the normal level.” Yes, even lemmy.ml.

muxika@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 13:17 next collapse

Having an ideological focus for an entire instance feels like a major mistake. I can understand one admin having that take, but not the whole team. Thanks for the heads up.

cabbage@piefed.social on 08 Dec 14:52 collapse

I think instances with ideological underpinnings is fine, and maybe inevitable. The crucial thing is that they need to be honest about it, so that those not interested can go elsewhere.

The problem with lemmy.ml is that it pretends to be a catch-all instance when it’s in fact very much not, and that it doesn’t tell users up front what it’s all about. Both Hexbear and Lemmygrad are better in that respect—at least they’re honest.

echolalia@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 21:07 collapse

Part of the sign up process I went through was to copy a line from something Marx wrote (can’t remember now I’m a bad communist) to be approved for an account.

Maybe it wasn’t like that in the past but it was made clear in the sign up processs that the admins are ML communists and run their instance with those beliefs informing their moderation decisions.

bigkahuna1986@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 01:28 next collapse

I joined during the Reddit exodus and I didn’t have to do that. Was a little shocked to learn that later.

Cowbee@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 10:51 collapse

Technically it’s Engels, in The Principles of Communism, last I checked.

GrammarPolice@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 11:25 next collapse

🤓

Cowbee@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 11:40 collapse

It is true though, users should be able to pick up on that the instance that makes copying communist theory a part of the sign up process might have communists.

hexagonwin@lemmy.sdf.org on 09 Dec 11:58 collapse

…except its not really communist, like north korea’s no way a proper communist country (not that there’s any that even existed); just some shitty dictatorship

Cowbee@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 12:08 collapse

What is a “proper communist country?” The people on Lemmy.ml by and large agree with what the broad majoroty of practicing communist parties believe, including groups like the Black Panther Party.

echolalia@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 12:22 collapse

Much appreciated. Haven’t found any time to read anything, regrettably, but I have bookmarked your lists!

Cowbee@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 12:32 collapse

Awesome, thanks! I hope they’re useful for you!

givesomefucks@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 13:21 next collapse

Yeah, it’s not that people don’t like the lemmy.ml users, or even really their mods…

It’s (at least one of) the admins.

If they see something they don’t like on their server, they delete it and give a very very short ban. Because they don’t want those people gone. They want them enraged and chomping at the bit to come back.

It’s ran like a troll instance, and it’s not alone.

The only time they permanently ban someone, is when they see someone in a neutral place they can’t control talking about it. Advocate for people blocking them, and they don’t want anyone signed up to their instance seeing your comments

village604@adultswim.fan on 08 Dec 14:01 collapse

No, their users are by and large insufferable fascist sympathisers. They’re the reason ML gets a bad reputation.

RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com on 08 Dec 20:51 next collapse

The admins over there have some profoundly questionable views, which tends to push away reasonable people and attract bootlickers.

Such as?

Lots of fairly wild accusations being made throughout this thread that I’d love to read up on to avoid the “just trust me bro” axiom.

SupraMario@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 23:18 next collapse

sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad

This should get you up to speed.

RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com on 09 Dec 01:00 collapse

I would just link people to the Megathread:

sh.itjust.works/post/37226752

SupraMario@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 01:58 collapse

O damn that’s way better

leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 Dec 23:19 collapse

They’re tankies.

RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com on 09 Dec 00:58 collapse

Why would you make this comment? Did you think it added to the discussion?

leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Dec 01:41 collapse

Because you asked:

The admins over there have some profoundly questionable views, which tends to push away reasonable people and attract bootlickers.

Such as?

Generally answering a question tends to add to a discussion, yes.

Rhoeri@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 22:22 next collapse

The admins are absolute cowards of the worst kind.

leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 Dec 23:19 collapse

Biggest issue is that said admins are the lemmy devs. .ml is their test instance.

phar@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 12:39 next collapse

I was just banned from there because I said The Invasion into Ukraine is murdering people. They called me a fascist because I kept saying I don’t agree with murdering people.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 08 Dec 12:48 next collapse

Weird, there’s no history in your mod log.

phar@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 13:08 next collapse

I’m banned so I am on another instance.

eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Dec 01:31 collapse

May we have the previous account for proof via mod logs?

phar@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 02:42 collapse

So what, I get banned on any other ml and need to make another account? What does that benefit me? The conversation went just like it went here. Except I was called Hitler. To be fair, after being called Hitler I called someone else Hegseth.

eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Dec 06:28 collapse

No, I’m not saying you’re lying, I’m asking for context and proof. It’s hard to fake mod logs, but I could say .world banned me for saying Hitler was evil on another account.

Trust me, I know .ml is not great. YePowerTrippingBastards has proof.

phar@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 13:08 collapse

My name is the same there, you can look. I did not use any slur in the thread I was banned in. I previously had said something was retarded in another thread and they got hot an bothered but that was not in that thread. The only name I called someone was a fascist after he called me a fascist.

eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Dec 06:29 collapse

Weird how he’s not giving us the alt, I’m sure there’s no reason to do that. Context and evidence is bad, I guess.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 09 Dec 06:40 collapse

It’s the same username, just on .ml. They’re just really obnoxious, the sort who goes down fighting about being allowed to say slurs while pretending it’s about some higher principle.

eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Dec 11:06 collapse

Oh wow I’m so shocked that the person was banned for slurs and claims the mods were evil.

phar@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 18:35 collapse

Where did I say mods were evil? Why is it so hard for people here to have a conversation without claiming other people said things they didn’t?

muxika@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 13:11 next collapse

Welp, that feels like a red flag. Thanks for the info.

village604@adultswim.fan on 08 Dec 14:02 next collapse

That’s because they think Ukrainians are Nazis because Putin said so.

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 14:55 collapse

The entire worlds media saw them as the nazis they are before the war

village604@adultswim.fan on 08 Dec 15:13 next collapse

Ok buddy

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 16:08 collapse

<img alt="Nazi problem before the war" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/196bcafe-c646-4623-83d2-46d79ecc016c.jpeg">

<img alt="Corruption problem before the war" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e8e7cab9-67cb-40fe-b29d-541a751e683f.jpeg">

Liberals are always against every war except the current one

phar@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 16:25 next collapse

So there were groups of a certain type of people in a country so bomb and murder the entire civilian populations of cities? Russia has fascist leadership, do you think we should blow up Moscow? Trump is a fascist, should we bomb NYC? Your logic is crap.

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 16:52 collapse

The US knew it could pull Russia into war by pushing for Ukrainian NATO membership, a membership they were never going to honor. By NATO’s own admission Ukraine is too corrupt for membership

phar@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 17:03 next collapse

Is Russia not big boy enough to make decisions on its own? They had to go to war with someone because of a threat of a country next to them joining NATO even though there was no hope to join nato? Maybe Russia should get their shit together then. Ukraine was part of NATO partners for peace in the early 90s. They’ve wanted to be part of NATO. Pretending Russia was forced into it is ridiculous.

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 20:07 collapse

Come back after the war is over so you can pretend you were against the entire war the whole time

phar@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 20:22 collapse

I was against the war when it started I’m against the war now obviously. I will be against the war when it’s over. So I’m not really sure what you’re insinuating. Also I’m always against countries invading other countries on flimsy justification. Whether it’s the US and Iraq or Russia and Ukraine or Israel and palestine.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 09 Dec 01:54 collapse

You can’t be against war and support one side in it lmao.

phar@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 02:46 collapse

I support the invading army to stop invading and go home. Keep their own soldiers alive as well, to go home and be with their families.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 09 Dec 06:24 collapse

And the Russians support Ukraine accept that the territory no longer belongs to them, and demilitarize so the millions of Ukrainians who’ve fled can come home and rebuild.

That’s not supporting peace, “I want the other side to just give up” is not materially different than the most bloodthirsty warhawk’s position.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 23:22 collapse

Then what would you advocate in Gaza? I think Israel should absolutely just cease hostilities immediately and walk away from the conflict. Does that make me the most bloodthirsty warhawk? Such weird logic.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 10 Dec 01:58 collapse

Israel should be dissolved give full, democratic rights to Palestinians, including the ones they’ve kicked out, and return their homes. A two-state solution simply leaves Palestine as a rump-state controlled by Israel, as the PA has been. Apartheid in South Africa didn’t end with the colonizers taking all the best land, encircling the natives, and then giving them a state that is dependent on the white state.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 21:10 collapse

Wow. And the reason that that’s the wrong response to Russia invading Ukraine is…?

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 11 Dec 02:00 collapse

A 1-state solution in Ukraine would leave the Ukrainians a minority within an oppressive regime, you’d have an insurgency forever, even if the US stopped sending weapons.

The only solution that is feasible at this time is for the Russian speaking parts of Ukraine to split off, the Ukrainian parts to remain, the fascists purged, and Russia to pay for rebuilding/reeducating Ukraine. Do I think Russia will do the last two? Probably not.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 06:08 collapse

Why advocate for the dissolution of Israel but not of Russia? What were you intending to do with the Israeli people? Why not split Israel and Gaza along linguistic lines as you propose to split Ukraine? Your solution in Gaza/Israel is the complete capitulation and dissolution of Israel, the invader, reversing the situation as it is, whereas your solution in Ukraine is a two state carving up of Ukraine, the invaded, and no negative consequences for Russia, the invader. Why the discrepancy?

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 11 Dec 06:32 collapse

Why advocate for the dissolution of Israel but not of Russia

If we dissolved Russia tomorrow and created a new state including all Russian and Ukrainian territory, you’d have the Ukrainian areas immediately fighting to secede, and the Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine probably vote to remain.

What were you intending to do with the Israeli people

Give them equal rights to the Palestinians, with minority protections/representation after giving the Palestinian people their homes back and allowing the ones who fled to Egypt and surrounding countries to return home.

Why not split Israel and Gaza along linguistic lines as you propose to split Ukraine?

Russia and Israel are fundamentally different entities; the Israeli settler-colonial project requires the continued ethnic cleansing of its claimed territory and it’s status as an American outpost requires it take hostile action against anyone America wants to fuck with, currently Iran and Syria; meanwhile Russia did a simple calculus:

Option 1: Don’t invade Expected result: hostile, NATO-backed state 50 miles from Moscow who can act with impunity and we can’t respond

Option 2: Spend 3 days driving to Kiev, replace government Expected result: Pre-2014 status quo of Ukrainian buffer state.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 11 Dec 17:52 collapse

continued ethnic cleansing of its claimed territory

I guess you know little about what’s happening in the occupied regions of Ukraine. Your double standards make me sick.

Rhoeri@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 22:30 next collapse

This is an incredibly entertaining reach you’re attempting here. Hilarious! Love it!!

GrammarPolice@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 11:26 collapse

Funny how you always manage to have shit takes no matter the thread

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 01:56 collapse

Just because you’ve bought all of the pro NATO, pro war, imperialism propaganda doesn’t mean that it’s a shit take.

floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 Dec 16:37 next collapse

And a “3-day special military operation” is an appropriate way to “de-nazify” Ukraine, or does it look more like a land grab?

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 16:53 collapse

It looks like the US wanted a war to feed the mic and got one

selfAwareCoder@programming.dev on 08 Dec 17:57 collapse

That’s weird, to everyone else it looks like Russia wanted a war to feed it’s mic and created one

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 20:08 collapse

The US is the only country with an industry specifically for war

village604@adultswim.fan on 08 Dec 22:00 next collapse

So… Russia doesn’t manufacture their own military hardware and munitions?

ManixT@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 22:43 collapse

This is among the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. Stop talking until you know what you’re taking about.

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 01:58 collapse

Get back to us with any other country has a military even 1/10 the size of the US.

SirActionSack@aussie.zone on 08 Dec 18:51 next collapse

Isn’t all that from the untrustworthy western propaganda machine?

K1nsey6@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 20:12 next collapse

I’m using Western sources that liberals claim don’t exist

Glide@lemmy.ca on 08 Dec 23:38 collapse

No, no, it’s only untrustworthy American propaganda when it challenges their world view. Right now it’s a series of cherry-picked, possibly altered snips designed to push the fascists narrative, so it’s great.

Also, everyone who disagrees with you is a liberal.

Rhoeri@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 22:28 collapse

Look! Carefully curated pictures that help tell the chosen narrative!

This is as bad a a the bullshit man-on-the-street videos where they edit out all the ones that make valid opposing point. Want democrats to look stupid? Interview 100 people and only show the small handful of them that said dumb shit.

What’s funny and a bit of a bummer, is that you don’t know how funny everyone thinks it is when you share dumb shit like thinks.

Also, you’re here proving every single point against .ml.

Rhoeri@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 22:24 collapse

Hey look! Here’s one now!

jdr@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 19:44 next collapse

Give murdering a chance!

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 00:21 next collapse

If someone says something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 01:27 next collapse

Oh, hi, it’s Mr Asymmetric Demands for Proof again!

How about for a change, you go and dig about in the modlog instead of demanding everyone else does?

Provide a witness statement that you found out their .ml username and searched the modlog and found nothing, and you’ll lend your viewpoint a shred of credibility. But without that, all we have to go on is your weird demands for proof that behaviour we all know the .ml mods are renowned for actually happened again for the 1758th time.

If someone says something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.

I say that you argued with me for hours and hours yesterday after I said that you were as unnecessarily argumentative and bad at backing down as the person you were calling toxic. I recall finding it amusingly ironic. I remember you being particularly upset when I pointed out that calling me names wasn’t really proving me wrong. That’s when you started swearing at me in DMs and calling me things you weren’t prepared to call me in public.

I refuse to supply a link. Am I lying?

TL;DR Demanding proof that something that happens a lot happened again is reality denial masquerading as rationality.

eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Dec 06:33 collapse

How about for a change, you go do the research to prove me wrong instead of demanding everyone else does?

Flat earthers when told to have proof:

davidagain@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 18:38 collapse

More like flat earthers demanding proof that the world is round. Who disbelieves that .ml mods ban a lot of people for critisizing former communist countries?

eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Dec 06:34 collapse

No proof but instead saying saying for proof is a bad thing.

Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 07:39 next collapse

When it comes up, which isn’t too often, I find I’m not really the model archetypal .ml user in outlook and have run afoul of a few people that took exception to that there, but that came in the form of angry comments about the thing I said and either the literal meaning of it or sometimes what they took it to mean, and for a forum that seems entirely appropriate. I was briefly banned from one of the communities there once too because I was accused of being a bot. Funnily enough I actually didn’t notice that and it had been overturned by the time found out there was a modlog and figured this out.

It would be hard for me to know obviously, but based on this experience, it doesn’t seem to me that they’re particularly ban-happy, particularly not instance wide. Kind of a bummer that happened to you. I’m fairly happy basing my account there and speaking my mind when I see fit. I do pick up the prevailing winds and can accurately presume what would and wouldn’t be taken well, but I don’t generally feel a need to self-censor or worry about bans.

phar@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 11:13 collapse

My ban has been lifted now. Are you able to tell me how to find the modlog? I’d like to see what they actually banned me for. There was a point where I said I thought Russia should be broken up and given to it’s neighbors and they started responding by claiming I wanted nuclear war and posting pictures of Hitler. It was pretty over the top. I am wondering if that was what got me the ban. When I log in to my ml account I can’t find anything, no message or anything, that says what the ban was for.

Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 12:07 next collapse

I’m sure I remembered it being easier, but basically if you access the Lemmy instance in question via a browser rather than an app (might work on apps too but not mine), there’s a modlog link at the bottom of the page which shows you the mod activity generally, and then on that page you can filter by user and type the name of the user who’s modlog you’d like to see.

phar@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 14:05 collapse

Thanks! It says I broke rule 1: “No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.” However I don’t see where I did that. Re-reading all the comments I don’t say anything like any of those.

lemmy.ml/post/39952570

If someone sees where I did it I will admit that I was wrong. I’m not above admitting I’m wrong, but I don’t see it.

Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml on 10 Dec 17:32 collapse

Hmm yeh that’s definitely a pressure point issue there. I guess I do self-censor somewhat in that I know the type of reception that can be expected on that topic if not following the orthodoxy so unless I’m prepared to vigorously defend something I have to say on it, then I generally don’t say much on it, wouldn’t want to go in half-cocked or try to persuade any one of anything unless I was pretty sure it was a new insightful take that might be able to ride above the fray and bridge some fundamental disagreements.

From my perspective, it’s difficult to say how your comments exactly contravene this rule 1 as stated directly. But then you did go ahead and suggest Russia should be wiped off the map as part of your defence of why it isn’t reasonable to use corruption as a pretext to wipe another country off the map. I think suggesting that as a fait acompli conclusion and the only option was bound to raise a few eyebrows and while it doesn’t neatly explicitly fit the categories mentioned in rule 1, I guess one could say that that suggestion dances around a mixture of 3 of them. Maybe someone was trying to shoehorn the statement in to one of the existing rules as pretext.

phar@lemmy.world on 10 Dec 19:43 collapse

Russia being wiped from the map doesn’t mean you kill all the people it just is the country and as I said it should be split up. I think there’s a difference between internal corruption and invading another country. I believe I was banned because someone simply didn’t agree with me and they could have simply just not responded and thumbs down if they didnt like what I said. But whatever though, the person that originally posted just wanted to know what was up with them and I was letting them know.

Edit: I have been on .ml since the Reddit evacuation/diaspora years ago. I have never been banned until just recently. Once I said mental retardation. It wasn’t directed at any particular person I wasn’t calling anyone specific a name however I understand that people consider that improper and I probably shouldn’t have said it. I’ll take it. This most recent one I think is a little ridiculous and I previously had not understood why people got so bent out of shape about the instance. Different folks different beliefs etc. At this point I’m going to abandon that instance though because I can’t voice an opinion. So just going to move on

Edie@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 13:28 collapse

If you use web click the three dots > [username] moderation history on a comment

AmazingWizard@lemmy.ml on 09 Dec 14:19 collapse

You don’t have a banned tag and there is nothing in the mod logs? What do you mean you were banned?

davidagain@lemmy.world on 09 Dec 23:00 collapse

This is an alt, they said elsewhere. They were banned on their .ml account.

falseWhite@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 12:49 next collapse

It took me maybe a week to figure out that I don’t want to be there and why.

If you haven’t figured it out yet, you either need more time or you are just like the .ml gang and that’s your home.

T00l_shed@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 12:50 next collapse

Everything that is critical of China or Russia is cia propaganda. Everything their sources say is unquestionable truth. That sums up my experience

flamiera@kbin.melroy.org on 08 Dec 15:29 next collapse

Because they tend to breed assholes there.

I've also noted that people from lemmy.zip slrpnk.net sh.itjust.works blahaj.zone programming.dev also have some argumentative assholes too.

clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works on 08 Dec 15:36 next collapse

I think we are one of the larger servers so we just have a more visible share than smaller instances. Our admins are pretty on top of complaints about users.

Lasherz12@lemmy.world on 08 Dec 16:11 next collapse

Sh.itjust.works also has one of the most abrasive trolls who ban evades and attacks users and admins. You may have unfortunately ran into them under multiple names.

_cnt0@sh.itjust.works on 08 Dec 16:38 collapse

Hello :)

remon@ani.social on 08 Dec 15:37 next collapse

Because of the way they are.

hanrahan@piefed.social on 09 Dec 03:59 next collapse

I am subbed to quite a few communities over there, zero issues for me.

cv_octavio@piefed.ca on 09 Dec 07:29 collapse

Because of the atrocious behavior they exhibit 100% of the time I’ve been unlucky enough to engage in “dialogue” with them.

I’m sure there are, among their ranks, some capable of critical thought, but if I see the .ml I generally know to expect a bunch of bad faith arguments and a large number of conflicting, morally ambiguous stances on world affairs.

In general: self-important,  ill-informed buffoons with axes to grind coalescing around the simulacrum of Marxist-Lenninist philosophy, who would shrivel to unmanned husks were they to endure what they loudly call for.

The similarity to the standard issue MAGA specimen is most uncanny, and typically varies only in regards to which idol they worship.