from catch22@programming.dev to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 19 Feb 2024 05:25
https://programming.dev/post/10245178
I’d like to know other non-US citizen’s opinions on your health care system are when you read a story like this. I know there are worse places in the world to receive health care, and better. What runs through your heads when you have a medical emergency?
A little background on my question:
My son was having trouble breathing after having a cold for a couple of days and we needed to stop and take the time to see if our insurance would be accepted at the closest emergency room so we didn’t end up with a huge bill (like 2000$-5000$). This was a pretty involved ~10 minute process of logging into our insurance carrier, and unsuccessfully finding the answer there. Then calling the hospital and having them tell us to look it up by scrolling through some links using the local search tool on their website. This gave me some serious pause, what if it was a real emergency, like the kind where you have no time to call and see if the closest hospital takes your insurance.
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It makes me think that the US is as weird and dumb as current state of most Europe.
I find this reassuring as an American in a backwards sort of way.
I do like that in my country, if there’s an emergency, you don’t need to think about it. You just get help without fear of being financially crippled for life.
I feel bad for Americans that you can’t easily get medical help, even in emergencies.
The one thing even Americans who have health insurance don’t realize about single payer healthcare systems, is that we don’t worry about it.
We don’t consider it when switching jobs, we don’t think about it when we’re sick, we don’t worry about medical bills… we just go to the doctor/hospital, and worry about getting better or dealing with the work implications of taking time off.
The weight for that piece simply doesn’t rest on our shoulders or minds at all.
You’ve been tricked and brainwashed you into thinking what you have is normal, and it’s disturbing how many of you think it’s a reasonable way to continue.
I’m American and trust me, in no way does it feel normal even after living with it my whole life. Simply hearing what you describe - not thinking about it - feels so deeply right and reasonable that it reminds me just how much weight of “this is not normal” we carry around.
Sadly, the brainwashing has been so effective that those who buy it never noticed that those gaslighting people into believing that no government system (eg, single payer) could ever work are the ones (Republicans) doing their best to ensure that government remains as broken as possible.
More people believe that our system is fucked than those who think this kind of system is normal.
We're just faced with so many hurdles, gerrymandering, red states that exist only because of minority representation have more power over larger population areas (districts by size and not population, electoral college) ... The majority of the country is merely surviving and the apathy sets in. I remind people that voting fascists out is the only way things are going to change and often the response is "Well, I tried that once and it didn't work." So they stop showing up to vote. Or they buy into the 'both sides' BS and post lame memes on Facebook and Reddit.
A lot of us really are painfully aware of how fucked it is.
We need to do way more than just voting to defeat fascism
That’s so fucking crazy sounding. It also sounds wonderful. My parents almost lost our house due to medical expenses, and yes they had insurance (here’s the best part - my dad was a disabled veteran). So support the troops, yay!
Because of that experience, I’ve developed a lifelong almost PTSD about insurance and medical bills - afraid that it will happen again to me now that I’m an adult. I obsess over it. It’s terrible.
I’m so jealous of those who never have to give it a second thought.
And there’s the problem
It’s so fucking normal sounding. Your system is the crazy, horrifying human rights abuse 😅
No, you’re absolutely right. I didn’t mean crazy to sound negative - it’s just something I cannot even imagine…to never have to think about this thing that I constantly think about. It’s wild. And I really do wish it could become a reality.
1 in 4 bankruptcies are military due to medical cost. We only support troops with thoughts and prayers
This is why I don’t understand why corporations aren’t behind it. It would take an enormous load of my HR dept. It would save them so much.
Retention. You'll find the threat of lack of healthcare to be fairly coercive.
Corps actually benefit from workers being worried about leaving. It reduces labour costs.
Yeah, exactly. The most expensive thing about a hospital visit here is the parking.
Bingo
No, we haven’t… Are you not aware how upset most people are over here about this system?
I didn’t read the article, but I read your story, OP. Your situation sounds shitty. As a Canadian, we take our kid to the doc when we feel it’s necessary. We live in a rural community and we don’t have a family doctor, so that usually means a trip to the ER, but we consider the cost in time (ie, how many hours will I have I take off work), rather than money.
I think it would be fair to say that we take our kids to the doc too often. I’m not proud of that, but I’ll happily pay taxes for other parents to do the same.
Having to think about price when your boy is having difficulty breathing sounds dystopian.
If you feel you need to take them, it’s not too often.
I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why I’m happy my taxes pay for me (and others) to hit up their doc.
Same story here in Australia.
That said our hospitals are in a bad state post covid and needs a lot of TLC
If you are sufficiently wealthy in the US, you can afford what we have as routine in Europe, which is healthcare. In the US, there are many who cannot afford insurance, and even with insurance, the policy is unlikely to cover your needs, especially for anything other than acute care.
American here, we have amassed more wealth than Rome at its peak, yet a disgusting number of our citizens live in third world conditions. Another disgusting amount of people live in relative comfort, but also in impossible debt that threatens them daily. They will be homeless soon, and they know it.
Our wealth inequality is worse than France before the Revolution, and it increases constantly. The wealthy don’t care. They just want more. They’ll burn the entire fucking planet to ash if it makes them a little more profit.
And Americans pay their utility bills with credit cards. And their grocery bills with credit cards. Their wages go to rent and booze/smoke to get by. Look at the mental health numbers in America and factor in the people worried about getting fired if they admit they’re struggling and ask for help. Factor in the ones who don’t have health insurance and can’t even ask for the help they need.
It’s a fucking nightmare here. And it’s getting worse every day. Trump is going to win for a reason.
We haven’t amassed shit. The wealthy have stolen it all.
That was an appalling wrong turn at the end there.
I didn’t say I was happy about it. People are desperate. They’re going to vote for chaos knowingly, because the status quo has become unbearable, and the Democrats have decided that pretending there isn’t a problem is a good campaign strategy.
Exactly. Cue the accelerationists.
BLM was the largest continued protest in American history. Democrats took a knee on the capital steps and changed a street name in DC. And that’s it.
I’ve been told since 2008 the recession is over. the news story ≠ real life. Idk anybody any better off today than they were in 2008. Everyone’s a bad week from homelessness. 99% of Americans, with 2 educated working full time adults do not earn the purchasing power of just one of their grandfather’s.
And the people are seeeeeeeething. We are a nation full of veterans and cosplaytriots, with more guns than people. The rich are naive to think they’ll survive the purge, all that needs to be said is ‘keep what you kill’ and the gene pool will be bleached.
I don’t even blame the accelerationists. Change doesn’t occur gradually or thru voting. Change happens in a pen stroke, under duress from public dissent. As it always has. Incrementalism is just the rich whittling our rights away, the rights paid for in our ancestors blood. A whole lot of good men died for the 8hr day, the 40hr work week, to ensure machinery got physically disconnected before servicing.
Liberals are corporatists conciliatory to change, but they’ll never lead change because its the right thing to do. Their morality is making money, and that’s it. That’s why they lose, cuz they stand for nothing. Puppets to profits, merely a meat shield to deflect the owning class it’s proper hatred.
Everytime, I read a horror story about US healthcare, I am like can’t be the norm, it should be a made up clickbait article based on an exception
Please US friends, tell me you have a decent coverage.
Moreover, everytime I read about before insurance prices it doesn’t compute. How can an US doctor charge like 10 times the prices on our side of the pond ?
There’s an unspoken assumption that when doctors quote a price, the insurance companies will widdle that down to a fraction of that amount when they pay out, so if a procedure actually costs $X.00, doctors will bill the insurance for $X * Y, so insurance actually ends up paying what it actually costs.
The side effect is that we pay co-pays or deductibles or non-100% coverage amounts based on what insurance was billed, not what the procedure actually cost. It’s actually cheaper in some cases (especially with regards to medications) to not use insurance because then, we’ll get billed what it actually cost, not the grossly inflated amount, and if our coverage is only, say, 50% for a given procedure, or if we have a co-pay on medication, we end up paying less. Meanwhile we’re still paying the insurance companies for the coverage we’re not taking advantage of. The whole system is fucked beyond belief. We know it, we just can’t do anything about it.
“Vote for the politicians who want to fix it!” only works if they actually do want to fix it, and will follow through if elected.
No, it’s not clickbait, sorry :/ I just paid $800 for a mole removal ontop of my $150 monthly bill and premiums. Emergency care is scary expensive, and for the love of God don’t use an ambulance.
I pay about $220 every two weeks for my HSA “High Deductible” Plan. Twisted my ankle pretty bad last November and after a visit to the urgent care, 3 visits to a podiatrist including 2 x-rays, and the.a boot and a support wrap that were purchased with the HSA, my funds in it are now depleted and put my $600 bill on a payment plan. My wife had some extra dental visits that resulted in a root canal that wiped most of it.
I have no idea how we’re gonna pay if we have something else come up.
I make 2x the median income in my area. But between the bills, $600(!) credit card payment, student loans from 10 years ago that just don’t want to go away, I feel I’d have to find some way to add another multiplier to my income. And that’s not including worrying about my 16yo car or my wife’s 10yo one. Was hoping my promotion last year would have gave me enough leeway to replace mine, but too much debt.
Which is actually not that much, based on my January payslip, 680 EUR have been removed from my paycheck to fund the government health/retirement/unemployment system (Which is based on my income, and I have a decent salary). There is also a part which is paid directly by the employer (and not visible on my payslip) so let’s say 1000 EUR a month. However, I keep coverage if I loose my job, and my highest left to pay was around 70 EUR for some imaging test (If I remember well total cost of the scan was 700 EUR with a 10% copay, and to answer the other question, got an appointment within 2 weeks). Note that the coverage would be the same (but way cheaper) for a minimal wage worker, and that I could get a private insurance to cover the deductible.
US conservative are right when say that Universal healthcare is expensive but I am rather having 700 EUR out of my pay check every month and not worry about getting medical care when I need it.
Yeah my employer luckily pays most of the premiums. If I lost my job and “had” to get COBRA, then what I’d have to pay would jump drastically to keep my employer based coverage or I could look at whats on the marketplace/exchange which would likely cover bare minimums, if it was even worth it at all.
It’d be worth considering dropping insurance altogether at that point as I would not have that kind of cash to continue insurance plan I’ve had.
I would rather pay higher taxes out of my paycheck if it meant EVERYONE could get healthcare, regardless if they had a job or were “legal”. Everyone’s gonna need it someday, no exceptions.
I try to vote for the candidates that have as close of values as I do, but realize not everyone running will be a 100% match.
It is the norm. I worked with a man who had seizeres and no health insurance. The first time he was introduced to me he said “Hi, I’m Tony. Listen, I have seizures. If I have one, DO NOT call an ambulance, no matter what. I can’t afford it.” He told us even if it looked like he was dying, to just let him go because he could never afford the bills if he lived.
This wasn’t some crappy part time job, this was my first big girl real job after graduating college. Like welcome to adulthood, you might have to helplessly watch your coworker die at your place of employment!
When i hear these stories i think im so grateful to not be born in such a horrible country. A country that can not look after its own isnt a country i want to be in
Honestly? I think Americans are by and large bad people for not doing anything about it.
Americans seem to be huge on politics, they talk about all these things. But they do nothing, just just come up with excuses.
Change your voting system, change your laws. The power is in the hands of the voters.
That’s a really hot take. Tell me, who should I vote for to bring about these magical changes I have the power to effect?
I don’t know, how can you possibly expect me to answer that. What options do you have as your local representative? Maybe run if there is no one good enough.
Gonna fund that? Pay for their time off?
Crowd source if need be? No other country, even poorer ones have this issue?
What the hell you guys on about.
I don’t think you understand how it works in the US, nor how much time/effort which the working poor simply do not have. There’s a reason why most in politics are rich there.
Rich people in other countries want universal healthcare.
Okay?
They can run on a mandate of universial healthcare but the US public just don’t care enough.
No, their system is gamed.
Incidentally, ranked choice voting was on the ballot where I live in 2020. I actually did spend some time trying to spread the word and drum up support. It didn’t pass, so we’re right back where we started, and I live in one of the most liberal states in the country.
Our state senators, representatives and local government are actually pretty alright, as American government goes, but the fact of the matter is that the country is being held back by a tyranny of the minority and those of us who don’t live in the handful of battleground states that define elections don’t really have much power to influence that.
Getting any sort of federal-level change into effect is basically an impossibility, because (it is my view that) corruption is so rampant. We’d have to oust the majority of the House and Senate and replace them with reasonable people to have any chance of getting the votes for something like that. At this point all we can really do is hope to hold off the fascist wave that’s building.
Best guess, the left of the democrats in the primaries, for a start.
It's not that you lack politicians who agree with the changes that are needed, it's that they are seen as less electable than the guy who did tons of fraud and at least one confirmed rape, somehow. I don't know that Americans are "bad people", but the fact that these common sense positions aren't the default, centrist view across both major parties is baffling.
It's a clumsy way to put it, but it's not wrong that the lack of universal consensus around these things in the US is confusing and unreasonable.
The amount of propaganda we’re subject to here is just astounding. News programs, print media, billboards, web articles, everywhere. Just looking at the way a given issue is framed completely differently in different states or cities or from different news sources is pretty eye opening. That, combined with rampant gerrymandering, makes it really hard to blame voters for voting against their self-interest; we’re just being bombarded with media designed to make us think, act and vote a certain way. I’m completely sure my own views are influenced by it, too, to be clear - I’m not claiming to be some pillar of purity.
It’s not that Americans are ‘bad people’ any more than the people in any other country are. It’s just that a relatively few voices are given very large platforms and basically dictate the discourse.
Yeah, ok.
I don't want to speak for the OP, but... I'm guessing that's what they're saying.
I mean, this issue is not on the ballot elsewhere. Even conservatives who are actively trying to dismantle public health care won't dare suggest that they want less public health care. At most they'll tell you they found ways to invest more and then turn around and give that money to private managers. You certainly broke through the propaganda. I don't think I've spoken to an American anywhere who has made a case for the current health care system. Polls suggest this issue, among other "aren't Americans weird" stuff are wildly impopular with the actual population.
But I also constantly hear from Americans that it's impossible to turn it around, that candidates who support these common sense moves are unelectable and that there is nothing they could ever do about it.
That part is what I don't get. I mean, I'm familiar with elections not going my way, it happens to everybody, but holy crap. There's a reason why this is not on the ballot elsewhere. You wouldn't need an election to figure this out. Even in countries with the bare minimum of democratic guarantees and no money you would have the mother of all endless riots under these circumstances.
Me, personally, I'm not so much judgemental of the American public as I am baffled at their defeatism and conformism.
Have we broken through the propaganda, though? Shit, just look at the pushback around Obamacare (which while certainly not ideal was the best public option health care we’ve had available in my lifetime) - there was so much negative press that people just didn’t have any idea how it was actually benefitting them. There’s an old Facebook thread that gets posted from time to time with someone railing against Obamacare while not even realizing they were using it to get coverage.
I think the biggest thing that a lot of folks from outside the US - especially those in Europe - don’t understand is just how big this country is. We are around 96% as large as the whole of Europe, with about half the population. The BLM protests was the most widespread activism we’ve managed that I can remember, and that was squashed pretty easily. It’s incredibly difficult to get a significant part of the US to coordinate on anything activism-related, and that’s really what it would take to make a difference, I think.
Yeah, I keep hearing the "you don't get how big it is" thing, too.
I get how big it is.
European agriculture workers just reversed EU-wide policy as recently as last week by blocking major roads throughout the continent with tractors. They didn't even agree with each other (half those guys are pissed at the other guys for being too competitive), and the regulations they opposed were climate protection regulations, among other more reasonable things, so this isn't necessarily a feel-good story.
But they won.
They didn't even have to try that hard, honestly. Besides mild traffic jams and some tense standoffs with police it was all pretty mild. And yet politicians across the entire continent, over multiple countries, were terrified of the optics of working class people protesting in loose coordination, especially with right wing parties trying to co-opt their anger.
I get how big it is. The size is not the reason.
The political party I think you want is on the other side of the current democrats. Ideally, as a nation, you've gotta go left so hard that the current dems would split into right and left. It is a daunting task, and a number of elections in the making...
I honestly think it is too far gone now for it to be turned with only elections. The power is too concentrated and the methods of control are too refined. At minimum, I think it will require mass "illegal" protests along with strong voting. As a bystander in another country, I fear for you all.
That’s great in theory, but if we do that, we’re giving the government to the GOP in the interim, and they’ve made it quite clear that if they get power, they don’t intend to give it up again. Not to mention, the effects of this would extend well beyond our borders. I’ve advocated very strongly for exactly this sort of action in the past, but now is simply not the time.
Right, and the way things are going with “states rights” it sounds like the GOP are already going for family planning and birth control with Alabama’s Supreme Court ruling that fertilized embryos are “people”.
You guys need a revolution.
Or at least someone out there breaking politicians legs so they understand what healthcare means.
NGL, I was offended at first but I’m not sure you’re wrong.
There’s honestly this constant apathy that the vast majority of people take towards politics. Then some of those people are simultaneously apathetic and regular voters. It’s kind of like a fan of Ferrari that doesn’t really pay attention to Ferrari or its competition; they’re just sure their car is the best.
Then there are those that are completely crazy.
Then there are those that actually pay attention.
It’s gotten worse the past few years because instead of getting more people that paid attention we’ve gotten more apathetic but yet somehow passionate Ferrari lovers.
That plus people don’t seem to understand Congress is where stuff actually gets done. There’s so much hoopla about the president but Congress is where the focus should be. Way too many people have no idea what their reps are doing.
Yea I didn’t write it in the politest way but I was going more for directness than anything.
I think knowing the problem is an important starting point.
People got shot at and died for things like the 5 day work week. But now people just think universial healthcare is beyond their abilities. I haven’t heard 1 story from America about a universial healthcare protest. Maybe they exist but not to the level of other things.
If it really mattered to the people I think they should do something.
The 5 day work week is largely dead for the working class. Employers either keep nearly all of their employees part time to avoid having to give them health insurance or have weekly mandatory overtime to keep the headcount down because it’s cheaper to pay the overtime for 60-80 hr weeks than to give another employee benefits. We’re going backwards in most places that we had made gains.
People have been convinced that their votes don’t matter, protests don’t matter, etc etc etc
“They’re both the same” (in reference to parties) is the extent of most people’s political sense.
It’s also one of those things where there are enough safety nets and things that for most people it’s never really that bad. I don’t know anyone personally that’s actually lost everything from medical debt. I know it’s a possibility and that’s scary… I even know some people that are on every aid program out there basically but those programs are paying out the thousands of dollars in monthly medical bills (i.e. in the instances I know the system actually “works” on some level albeit uncomfortably and with a lot of stress).
To put things into context for someone who doesn’t live here … car crashes, cancer, heart attacks, and other rare “inescapable” things like that are all much much more prevalent than crazy medical debt, getting shot, or going homeless.
It’s not a dystopia … most people are living at least decent lives. That’s kind of the problem, it’s not bad enough for an overwhelming majority of people to actually care.
That leaves some number of people who actually care for the sake of others and some number of people that care for their own sakes to deal with the problems and the propaganda that influences the (mostly) apathetic faction. The people at the bottom of the whole thing are also in the worst possible position to do anything about it because their time and credibility is ultimately judged and scarce when it comes to doing things like going out and convincing people to vote in their favor.
Since when?
I know this is kind of a joke about how dysfunctional Congress is/can be, but it’s exactly my point. Whether it’s functional or not, without Congress you don’t get money for your projects, and you don’t get changes to the law.
It’s not
In some ways America is a third world country. Healthcare is a fundamental human right, full stop.
In Australia, it's not too uncommon to hear people have conversations about how fucked the US system is. That's partly a symptom of how intertwined my life is with the topic of medicine and healthcare systems though, I'm sure most people have far fewer discussions about those topics than I do.
Having said that, I have certainly said "Thank God I'm not in the US" and received emphatic agreement in conversations.
I've also had a doctor say "well at least you're not in the US" to me during an appointment, after I expressed some displeasure at how much something was going to cost me - because i wasn't considered a valid demographic for that specific drug to receive the subsidy.
Socialised medicine doesn't mean free medicine, sadly. And our system has been run down by the ruling class attempting to emulate the US version's money-churning machine.
It does in Scotland.
I just feel bad for y’all. Most Americans I’ve met are at least nice people who probably deserve healthcare.
“Probably” made me chuckle.
My wife needed her gall bladder out last year the most expensive part of the whole week-long ordeal was paying for parking at the hospital. She has private medical insurance through her work, but needing to deal with the paperwork and all that from the hospital wasn’t worth the effort.
The fact that people have to choose between bankruptcy or dying of preventable illness is kinda like school shootings: the fact that you tolerate this at all - let alone having a major party campaign on “these things are actually good and you should be happy about them” - is pretty much proof that all of you are completely insane.
We feel lucky we’re not there.
Two main benefits/“public goods” from having your lives in a societal arrangement:
The US seems a prime example of too much emphasis on GDP and limited focus on quality of life. I’d rather be homeless in Cuba than in the US albeit all wealth and quality of life indicators are better in the US.
Honestly? The real feeling I get from this is being scared for the future. I do know that there are powerful forces seeing a business opportunity in that status quo that can be exported. And you can see the impetus towards eroding the safety nets here following marching orders from the far right, anarchocapitalist mothership all throughout the world. In some of the countries I've lived in there is already a push towards this model, just moderated by the existence of some sort of universal health care. Sure, even the bare minimum of public service care takes a TON of the edge off. Those ER bills are what some of my friends in those places paid for, say, having major surgery or good care while having a baby... but it's a slippery slope.
Honestly I just feel really sorry for you. What's even the point in living in the world's wealthiest country if it treats so many of you like shit at your most vulnerable.
whatever first aid I was taught that's relevant to do immediately e.g stop the bleeding
do we need to wait for an ambulance for this or shall we just drive straight to Accident and Emergency
go go go
That's about it followed by some of the usual "oh please let this person be okay". Emergencies are horrific. I can't even imagine having to factor being bankrupted into it.
I'm in New Zealand so the doctor costs money and prescriptions in some places cost $5 each. So there is still a lot of weighing up that the poor do around that kind of care. But as soon as a hospital is involved everything is free. None of that stuff is a factor any more.
In the US there are videos of people losing limbs in train accidents begging to not have the ambulance called because it's too expensive - and that's before you even get to the hospital. Better hope they take you to one your insurance covers or they might not cover the ER visit
@Uranium3006 that's so tragic and awful. I read that the US has a weirdly high death in childbirth rate for a developed country, probably because some of people who really should be giving birth in a hospital can't afford to.
I can't even imagine.
First:
I think it was a wise thing with the activated charcoal. I think that you also did what was best in your situation.
A very bad opinion. The health care system is one if the greatest shames in your country (after racism and the adoration of excessive wealth).
I’m sure they laugh at us, then feel a bit of pity, because most of us aren’t terrible people, but most of us can’t afford good healthcare because we vote for corrupt politicians in 2-party system of basically the same options, except one loves Russia and uses abortions to seduce the religious
Nobody with a little bit of compassion laughs at stories like this. People read this with a bit of incredulity and a lot of compassion. We might make fun of Americans at times, but there’s no humour here.
I’d argue most people on earth don’t have much compassion outside of their own circle.
I sincerely hope and believe you’re wrong. Sure, there grades, but I don’t think there absence of compassion outside our circles.
Hope is not a strategy. Belief is not a plan.
I don’t need either. We have a working health care system. My comment was about people having compassion outside their “circle”.
We don’t have a working healthcare system. It’s barely functional.
I don’t know who “we” are in your context, but strongly suspect my “we” is not the same.
Ahh. Right, confusing geographical post. We = USA
I suspected as much. I’m one of those socialist Europeans.
As a socialist American, I’m very jealous.
You pay taxes but get no benefit of them . They are used for subdivise automaker ,wallmart ,meat and dairy lobby and killing ciilvilan in other countries . I don’t understand why american are OK with that .
I pray there comes a time when the people decide what their taxes are spent on. Could be done using a simple form, with a dozen or so broad categories to choose from, submitted with your tax return.
I bet the results would shock the shit out of the politicians.
I’d like to just start with having to send a check every two weeks instead of allowing them to just deduct it.
Make people physically pay their tax, that’s how you get engagement. And they know that, which is why it’s NOT like that.
The only thing that would do is make people hate taxes.
Americans already don’t include taxes on their prices in shops in order to make the consumer mad at politicians because of “how much tax they have to pay”, while it is just a ploy by the corporations to lower the taxes so they can improve their profit.
Society needs money in order to exist. Taxes are the best solution to pay for the stuff no ordinary individual would want to spend money on. Like road repair, firefighters, huge healthcare costs, …
I am not against taxation. Tho, I am against taxation when my government doesn’t represent me; and until I see studies, and enacted legislation that show public support influences policy than I will continue my position that our government has been coopted by an unfriendly occupying force. It’s as if at the macro level, we’re quartering the soldiers of our own oppression.
I hate throwing good money after bad, absolutely. And where do you live that spends money on their roads? Firefighters are famously and shamefully volunteer services and health care…that’s an institutionalized shell game to grift your life saving away from you. You didn’t think they’d let you keep that did you? Back to work, prole.
It’s more famously going towards banks, ISP’s, and airlines… Basically all the things we hate the most.
The only way I’d live in the States is if I was making so much money that a 20k medical bill meant nothing to me.
$480.000 cancer treatment enters the chat.
what. Is this real?
Back in my first year of uni there, my classmate broke her femur. Got a nice 145k bill. Thank fuck she had insurance that paid most of it, because the two can negotiate any price they can come up with
You can buy a (rather small) Apartment for that over here. And still have money left for renovation.
I’m not willing to believe that the ACTUAL costs are in any reasonable correlation to the invoice.
Costs for services are basically made up. It’s incredibly complicated but I’ll give an example.
My last doctor appointment was billed at $220. I am in-network (which means my insurer has negotiated specific rates) so the insurance company says “you can only charge our insureds $105 for that service. We’ll pay $80. The patient is responsible for the rest.”
If I didn’t have insurance, I’d be on hook for the full $220. If the doctor was out-of-network, my insurance company would pay what they thought was reasonable and I’d be on the hook for the rest.
The $220 is just whatever the doctor feels like billing. It’s not based on anything other than “I feel like $220 is what my time is worth.”
Sounds fairly accurate. It’s just one privatized industry negotiating with another. Doesn’t necessarily mean that your leg is worth 145k$, however that’s how much they feel they can leech from each other. In the States, this is exactly why you ask for a full itemized bill, any time you get any work done. They will, and do abuse this system for profit
My stepdad had to take a loan out against the house to pay for shoulder reconstruction that his insurance deemed unnecessary.
Yes. The average cost of cancer treatment is around $150,000 USD here and expensive cases can be much more.
Well it’s not that it means nothing to me, but my job in the US pays about $30k more than it would in Germany (I can’t speak to other countries). Lots of Germans come to the US to work in my field for that reason (well they used to before all the layoffs). Also my health insurance is free.
That said, I absolutely still want public healthcare. Not just for the people in my country who desperately need it, but for myself too. Because while my healthcare is “free”, it isn’t really; my salary could be higher otherwise. And I lose coverage if I stop working (actually not really we have programs for that, but still kind of).
It’s a so foreign concept for me. Needing to rationalize about going to ER. I feel sorry. People are dying and people are tricked into believing it’s the better alternative. But There is a better way, and it’s only denied because of greed.
The institutionalization runs deep.
The first time I moved out of the US I lived in a socialized medicine country & I just never went to the doctor. My then girlfriend casually went because she wasnt feeling well (a cold), then would go to the pharmacy for a birth control shot (no prescription needed), and finally when I had a fever and a doc came to the house at 2am (we just had to pay the taxi). I had a lengthy stay in the hospital, and a month of rehab, my employer’s nurse would stop by the house and give me an injection on his way home. And our son was born in a hospital with private rooms- all i had to pay for was my meals and overnight stay (there was a bed for me), plus the room had a mini bar…no shit.
We moved back to the US to raise the kids and then out again i to another socialized medicine country and I STILL HESITATE to go to the doctors.
Yeah… The Trumpers and other idiots are the ones defending this system. We’re talking about something like a third of our population, but it fluctuates.
People outside the US always overestimate these people’s opinions for some reason. I think the propaganda machine that is our media works better on foreigners than it does on US citizens. Obviously it works far better than it should on our own people, though…
I grew up in the US healthcare system and have paid it multiple tens of thousands of dollars. I spent around a decade also working in Healthcare IT. I now live in a country with a much more sane system (Japan). Not perfect, but not the shitshow that is the greedy US system.
Sadly I feel like it’s always the same thing when hearing about america’s problems: people will make a great fuss about it, lots of tweets, TV interviews and such, but nothing will came out of it. Repeat every x months. That’s what I have observed about the gun handling situation, the 6 January insurrection, the opioid crisis, the rise in poverty, housing crisis, and the healthcare system. Seems like the whole world is staring at the US like WTF is happening, and america is just like “yeah, I’ll be angry today and do something about it tomorrow” Anyway, just my 2 cents, send thoughts and prayers
Honestly, I feel scared because it’s actually something that is being exported here.
I feel so sorry for you Americans, but I don’t blame you. I don’t think this is something you can address by simply voting, the same way we here can’t do nothing by voting in order to stop the privatization of everything. This are scary times.
Scary. That’s what I think of the US healthcare.
The other side of the spectrum is that in the US, anything goes. If you got the money any and all treatment is possible.
Overhere that’s not the case. Some medicine and/or treatments are deemed way to expensive or unproven and are unavailable.
I live in a western European country. A few anecdotes to illustrate what Americans don't get about healthcare:
I was involved in a serious accident and the passenger in my car was taken to hospital in an ambulance and had to have scans, etc. It ended up costing 1000 Euros.
One of my teeth needed to be replaced by a dental implant. I had it removed, a bone graft was necessary, then a few months later they drilled a metal pin into the jaw bone, then they placed a crown on it. The pin was Swiss made, the dentist did a 3d scan of the inside of my mouth for the crown. I had a few return visits. It ended up costing me 3000 Euros total, but I specifically spread the appointments around the new year: november - january. This was a big deal for me, as I was unemployed and needed to dip into my already small savings.
I had a headache, so I bought myself some paracetamol(tylenol?) at the drug store. 50 for 2 euros.
Sounds ok, right?
Here's the thing that Americans don't get. These are all fully private prices.
The first incident, I received a bill because it would have to be paid by the other party's insurance. 1000 Euros was the fully private cost without government intervention. The accident had happened just across the border in another country.
The second anecdote, this was also the fully private cost. Dental implants are not covered by healthcare. I have supplemental private dental insurance (20 Euros per month), which has a maximum deductable of 2000 Euros per year. Spreading it out meant I ended up spending only a few hundred euros, after I received money from my insurance a few weeks later.
The US system isn't just absurdly expensive for people who aren't insured, it's absurdly expensive compared to fully private healthcare in plenty of developed countries.
Hell, have a look at how much it costs to get plastic surgery in the US. A boob job is likely to cost you less than a visit to the ER, despite the latter being a far more involved and expensive operation.
It seems obvious to me that a lot of price gouging and anti-competitive behaviour is going on in US healthcare, and simply regulating (not privatising) properly would already make things far more affordable. How else can you explain healthcare costs per capita being up to three times as high as comparably developed countries, but outcomes often being worse? Healthcare shouldn't have to cost this much. The healthcare industry can make a reasonable profit while charging far more reasonable prices.
TLDR: you're getting ripped off, but you have no choice in the matter, because what are you going to do if it's an emergency? You can't just leave the country.
I literally use the horror-stories about the US health care system to counter the bullcrap peddled by the white supremacist, pro-neocolonialism and pro-privatisation crowd here in South Africa.
Of course, it’s a pretty moot point, really - our entire political establishment seems dead-set on dismantling and sabotaging what little remains of our tattered public infrastructure anyway to facilitate their corrupt dealings with foreign creditors. They only seem to differ on whether to do it slow or fast.
Shaking my head and glad I’m not living in the US.
A country can decide how to treat people, how to shape the future. I get that nothing is perfect and everything is complicated. But I completely don’t get why the US doesn’t want to tackle some of the problems. Mainly school shootings, healthcare, social security and a democratic system by today’s standards. Maybe the latter is the answer why… And watching documentaries about the rural areas, it seems like the USA is mostly a third world country, except for in the cities.
The funny thing is that the US actually spends about twice as much on healthcare per capita as other developed countries. The reason that outcomes are so much worse there isn’t lack of money.
Oh wow, I didn’t know that. Google says $13.493 per person in 2022. And in Germany it’s a bit more than $7.000…
Also things like maternal mortality are WAY worse…
I mean the USA is bigger and maybe things don’t translate exactly from a somewhat densely populated central european country to the vast emptiness of rural Wyoming. I guess an hospital is also something that is subject to economy of scale… But even most northern european countries where doctors come in with helicopters, don’t exceed the ~$7.000.
It is really off for the USA:
<img alt="" src="https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/22d1c008-c198-4709-8dee-0d6f73ffcaba.jpeg">
en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_countries_by_total_hea…
(If that is correct, you could spend half the money on healthcare and also live 3 years longer, on average…)
Life expectancy is going down cuz suicide rates are shooting up. Like suburban boys with shopping malls, their classrooms and/or heroin/fent
Fuuuuck. Nailed it, I’m fucking kiiiiiiiiilling it today. Ziiiing!
Hmmh, but that’s only the thing on top. Contrary to other countries, life expectancy seems to be actually going down since 2014… But there is already something seriously wrong since ~1980…
Reagan, Thatcher
And seems it never has gotten better than that, regarding this apect. Even worse 😮💨
It’s just THAT expensive. An ambulance is 2-3k minimum. Just for showing up. Going to an ER, talking to reception and then giving up and leaving? That’ll be a $1200 bill, to NOT see a doctor.
I don’t even know the line where I would voluntarily to go the hospital, knowing it’s sacrificing the next 10-20 years of all my extra income. Would it be when I put my thumb thru a grinding disc on my angle grinder, cutting it clean in two right thru the entire nail?
Naw, hell no. I would have cut my thumb tip off with a chef’s knife and cauterized It if I thought it wouldn’t heal on its own, rather than spend an app $15,000 I don’t have. Took about 10 weeks to heal.
I know how to fight off an abscess tooth without antibiotics. It takes about 8 days, of constant stabbing, arching your back pain. Ive broken knuckles just to have a different pain to focus on. No one should know how to do this in 2024. Abscess teeth kill. Kennewick Man, y’know, the Popsicle? That’s what killed him. My story isn’t unique, America is a third world country with iPhones. Don’t visit. I wish the world would boycott every American company until we learn how to have a civil society.
Yeah, it’s not a healthcare system. It’s a jobs system and wealth transfer scheme. Insurance companies have the government in their pocket and get employer money, government money, and employee money and transfer it to the already outrageously rich, and all that in between cost (salespeople, billing specialists, HR benefits specialists) is somebody’s paycheck.
That’s without consideration of actual fraud, which moves money from the government to the rich without even providing services at all, and is easier to hide in such an outrageously complicated and expensive system.
Our entire nation exists to funnel money to the rich. Whenever someone wonders, “why is x this way in the USA?” The answer is always it puts more money in a rich person’s pocket. The healthcare system is the emperor’s new clothes. Bask in it, if you can see how great it is.
We WANT too. Gun control, Medicare for all, and SS all have majority support for reform, across the parties. Broad support. Multiple studies have shown that public opinion has ZERO effect on legislation getting passed. Our oligarchy doesn’t give three shits to the wind about actual Americans. I’ve never met a group of people who, clearly, hate almost everyone they see. At the end of the balance sheet, actions speak louder, and the group most responsible for pain, suffering and loss of quality American years lived are the 1%. Their renumeration of revolutionary inequality is simultaneously equal amounts astonishing and disgusting.
If I wrote out a synopsis of the economy today and somehow got it back to my WW2/Korea vet grandfather he would’ve thought the USSR won the cold war.
His last words to me, i had asked him about WW2, and said I wanted to join the military like him - I liked my grandad better than my parents - and he told me “you don’t join the military. I fought so you and your siblings don’t have too” and then he made me promise that I’d go to college instead.
I did as he asked tho looking around now, I feel like no matter what I do, war is gonna find me.
Which if we’re being brutally honest, would be a return to the norm. Historically war touches everyone’s life. We’re blessed to live under the Pax Americana, but greed has rotted out the essence at its core and when the last leg falls…ever seen that movie Miracle Mile? You should watch it.
Thanks for the suggestion. Of course Netflix doesn’t have this 1988 movie… Let me see if I can pirate it… And thanks for teaching me the term “Pax Americana”.
The USA is somewhat far away from the wars it is or has been engaged with. I think the situation is a bit different than for other countries. That is also a thing I don’t quite get about the USA. Back in the cold war enormous sums of money were invested to fight the USSR. And nowadays Putin wants to revive that and the USA really struggles to represent their interests. I mean the USA isn’t tied as closely to eastern europe as for example a central european country where I live is. But there are some economic interests at play and the USA also benefits from a stable eastern europe and Russia/China not wreaking havoc in the world. This time it’s not even American soldiers who have to die in that battle. And the USA could advertise for their arms industry and make some profit, too. But all of that is overshadowed by national politics and it seems to cripple politics and working towards mid-term and long-term interests.
GOP steps into the chat.
Sounds like a joke.
Here: you hurt you go hospital. You wait to get fix
When I need medical care, I go to the doctor, it is not a question about if I can afford it, I just go.
Back in 2019 I got sick like hell with mycoplasma, I was out of work for a month and a half, and even stayed two nights in hospital.
I never worried about my job, just focused on getting better.
At the end you do still have to pay here in Sweden, but in total, several doctors vists, two nights in hospital, antibiotics, food in hopsital and the medicine from the pharmacy cost me about the equivalent of 150USD.
So while not 100% free to me, I did not even once think about the cost.
To put that in perspective I have a nonemergency going on right now. I need to replace my CPAP. To do so I need a new prescription for one. In order to do that I need to go to my primary doctor to get a referral to a sleep specialist. That appointment cost me $250. The sleep specialist basically told me yup I need a CPAP just like the past 7 years. That cost me $370. So now I've paid $620 in order to pay $800-$1000 for a new CPAP.
I can’t believe governments and companies put such a “price” on people’s health. I must say the news about the US Health System is also echoed by all the other US companies I have dealt with in my professional capacity. Profits before people and sales before outcomes.
I/We avoid using them when we can…
Why does your government not want a healthy work force? Healthy workers are more productive. Even with the right wing focus of your entire government, having healthy workers just feels like a no brainer.
Also a worker that doesn't have to waste time on bureaucracy and healthcare considerations has more time to be productive.
Both of you are thinking in terms of efficiency and not control. You're dependent on your job to get health care. Lose your job? Better not get sick or hurt.
Of course the new thing is to not give employees too few hours so you legally don't have to provide health insurance for them and make them pay for it themselves. Which is much more expensive.
Sure there's Medicaid, but first you have to qualify. Then there's different parts that cover different things and not others. You may also still have copays, deductibles, and other charges you still have to worry about.
Additionally the private insurance market means the cost of hiring someone is dramatically higher. Medicare for all would probably make the vast majority of companies more profitable. It’s such a no brainer for everyone outside the healthcare industry.
I think my company's pays about $600 a month for my insurance and I pay about $150 for premiums. It's insane.
Not only that but say I run a bakery, why should I have to devote a crazy amount of time learning medical insurance speak? That’s time that I should be spending thinking of new things I can sell. That’s the whole point behind specialization. I don’t give two-girls-one-cup shits about the ins and outs of ANY insurance policy. I buy what I need and I need it to work when I need it. My interests begins and ends there. and that’s a REASONABLE position to take.
Why are we allowing ourselves to be extorted by medical insurance muckbangs?
The whole industry deserves doxxing and relentless public shaming. I’m not advocating violence. Like protesting outside assistant mid-managers houses. If identities got stolen and credit scores ruined…well, I’m not condoning it but I’m not gonna lose sleep over it either. Make the whole industry undesirable to work in.
Here is my perspective on the answer to your question:
Our government is not functional. It is not that it doesn’t “want” a healthy work force, but that it isn’t capable of setting any sort of a policy.
The last time the US made any meaningful change in healthcare policy was under Obama. My impression of what happened is that there was a brief (2 yr) moment when the Presidency, House, and Senate were all controlled by the same party. The Democrats passed “health reform” which was basically the Republican health care reform package from 4 years earlier.
In the 13 years since then, the only Republican position on health care has been that Obama’s “ACA” law is “bad”. There is literally no suggestion of what else would be better. (I’m not counting the anti-abortion laws as “health care” – they are seen here as a moral issue, not a health care one.) The Democrats’ position has been a mix of “we shouldn’t let the Republicans take us back to something WORSE!” and “the whole system is broken and needs to be replaced”.
We have two problems. First, our government is structured so that it cannot easily accomplish anything, at least without cooperation between the two opposed parties. Secondly, one of the two parties is insane and wants to destroy the government (and has enough electoral support to win almost half the time).
It’s because this system works well for wealthy people. And most of the idiots who like this system are either wealthy, or idiots with “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” syndrome.
Those in power (Trump, then Biden) specifically ran campaigns against radical changes to this system. Many of us tried to drum up support for Bernie four years ago… Alas, it failed.
That story is horrific, I can’t imagine living like that.
When I have a medical emergency (or even if it’s just a possibility) then I go straight to the ER. I might have a small administration cost to pay, but it’s easy enough to manage that I don’t have to give it a second thought.
My job isn’t linked to my healthcare, that sounds like insane leverage.
I’m a dual citizen, so tbh I miss it, because at least in US I was covered by my parents and health care workers are nicer.
I can just explain the mindset, and then you can draw your conclusions: When people get sick, they evaluate whether it is bad/concerning enough as to be worth the hassle of making time to go to the doctor. If during work hours, in most office work spaces, you simply say “I’m going to the doctor. I’m back in a couple of hours”, and you go.
Now the situation is getting increasingly worse every year, because the public health system is underfunded, and every year more so, so that private alternatives look much better… So that rich people and/or private health interests, can use their wealth to “argue” (paid propaganda, e.g funding political opposition) that the public healthcare is not adequate, and should be further defunded… Doctors literally chose between sticking to morals/principles or having non-insane working hours and a higher pay. So, we’re headed in the same direction, for sure. The US just serves as the example of: take that path to its conclusion, and that’s how fucked up it can get. Hopefully, when our public health service simply collapses within the next 10 years, we manage to draw the correct conclusions as to why that happened, and not double down on the same stupidity (just look at UK for inspiration). I’m sure think tanks are aware of this, and can suggest how to sow the seeds for a political zeitgeist where we go full retard.
But, people still selfishly vote for their own interests, or dumb enough to be convinced regardless. Humans sucks. Fingers crossed.
The most frustrating part of getting older and wiser, is clearly understanding the correct solutions and approaches. Perhaps not the answer to everything, but at least identifying what makes the problems worse. Then, observing that those in charge have private interests at heart, and that the new generation is too malleable to know any better.
Well, in my country you have the option to pay for medcare or use a private plan. However you have full access to public, free and universal healthcare which you don’t have to pay anything for it.
We don’t have to convince anyone here. If you need attention, you’ll get attention. For free.
I think that USA healthcare is a joke. A bad taste joke.
Honestly, I am so glad my parents didn’t move to the USA and moved to the UK instead. Me and my sister had several health issues including asthma, food allergies, broken bones playing sports, and as a result several hospital and doctor visits. Considering my parents were self employed shop keepers, I don’t know if we’d be alive, let alone what sort of life we would have had. Then also having to pay for college would’ve been tricky. Having so few work holidays also completely sucks!
We are now both professionals with great jobs, paying lots of taxes and volunteer a lot to try to give back. Would that be possible in the USA - I honestly have no idea! Would we move to the USA - absolutely no way! We’d both actually earn lots more money in the USA in the same role but factoring in health and happiness, it’s not worth it.
When you hear “greatest country on earth” and “the American dream”, I think anybody in Western countries really roll their eyes. It’s not a utopia here in the UK but nobody claims it to be, and stories like this just prove we are better off here.
However, we know the people themselves are great and don’t deserve this position. We feel sorry for you and wish part of your population would travel and see things for themselves to push for changes back home.
In the UK, we are terrified that we will end up in the same position as our out of touch political elite and ultra wealthy would love to copy this.
I think I’m fucking glad I emigrated to Canada.
I know it’s not something everyone can do, but if you can afford it GTFO.
I’m glad I was born here . My son was 3 months premature so I would of had mountains of dept from all the ultrasounds from before he was born to monitor the issues we where having. Plus a 3 month stay in the NICU with special tests done all the time to make sure everything was fine .
Also I get kidney stones and have to somewhat regularly get it treated with lithotripsy to break them down to smaller peices.
My partner’s son was also premature and also had complex developmental issues. The fact that they weren’t bankrupted (and that my stepson actually has access to support staff) amazes me still.
I think “That’s the US health care system for you” or “Yep, that checks out”.
Guns are a right, but you can be jailed for getting an abortion. The US is turning into a third world country.
Actually most third world countries don’t have guns as rights. And their laws on abortion vary wildly.
So the US would be worse than third world.
New achievement unlocked: fourth world
Biggest number! U-S-A! U-S-A!
I used to be horrified and outraged. Now I just think it’s hilarious. No problem, cause you got the 2nd amendment, right? You can get all the health care you need by just holding up a hospital. Haha.
I have learned that whenever something doesn’t make sense about the US, it is racism. When segregation was declared unconstitutional, the southern states vowed “massive resistance”. The baddies can also riot and mobilize civil society. They privatized what they could to thwart the overreach of the tyrannical government. People are naturally selfless, in that they are willing to suffer to hurt the right people. I fear this insanity is also spreading in Europe, as people are becoming aware of immigration. People do not vote in their own interest if it might benefit “the other”, but they do vote against it if it might hurt “the other”.
Of course, rational self-interest is also a factor. The US spends ~17% of its GDP on health care, compared to ~13% in Germany on second place. This is despite the fact that it has a younger population and does not cover everyone. So, yeah, those evil corporations again. But, maybe not just “them”. That’s also a lot of white collar jobs and you can see in AI threads how people feel when those are threatened.
That system is shit and a danger to the people and to the unity a nation needs.
In Germany we don’t even think about this system when we are ill - we simply go to the doctor whatever it is, and we call an ambulance if it’s necessary. Not a single thought.
Unless you’re a woman though :)
Because?
Maybe Miaou meant the gender gap in medicine. The big difference in studies looking at the medical details (for example of drugs) in female bodies vs in male bodies
Also general conservatism. Is there any western European country where abortions are still illegal besides Germany?
Edit: just checked, Italy and Portugal are not doing well either. But those countries don’t pretend to be progressive so no surprise
You can abort till the 22 week in Germany.
Up until 2 years ago it was illegal for doctors to advertise they performed abortions.
And there’s a difference between abortion being legal, and it being decriminalised (as if the case in Germany)
Portugal doesn’t pretend to be progressive? They legalized all drugs. They’ve also allowed people of the same gender to marry since 2010.
The only western European country where abortion is illegal is Malta.
Only 2 countries legalised it in the last 34 years (Ireland and Northern Ireland)
Everyone else has had abortion legalised before 1990
Our son had a pseudo-croup attack, when he was about two. We have a number here in my country that you can call and they try to figure out your next steps. Since he was so young they pretty quickly told us to call an ambulance. Two paramedics came fairly quick and ordered an emergency doctor to the scene since they wanted to give him some medication they couldn’t give him on their own.
We were a little apologetic because we weren’t sure if calling them was warranted. But they were super nice and said we shouldn’t worry, it was their job and they’d rather drive to cases like this, were things go well then the other way round.
We gave them our insurance card, they left, and everything was fine.
Never in the whole process have I thought, oh my, I hope this isn’t going to cost too much. That is an awful thought. Our medical system here is far from perfect and I fear it’s going to get worse but it gives me a piece of mind that I don’t have to worry to go broke over it.
And the way families are insured really works well. You work and all your children and your partner (if they don’t work) are insured through you. No changes in payment, no questions (apart from: are they earning any money) asked.
<img alt="" src="https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/28fb9847-c44e-4750-9e10-dbe174e656bd.jpeg">
I mean it’s literally one of the good reasons to even have a society. I think whatever the fuck this is, it’s more like a good damn competition or something like that. It’s insane. Americans are insane for thinking that they are all temporarily inconvenienced millionaires in the making, and seemingly can’t understand basic empathy for all those that would be non millionaires. I think money making global corporations are soulless complex machines of torture and warfare that are completely psychopathic entities that will destroy anything or anyone standing between it and profits, and instead of controlling that you keep complaining when those machines end up hurting you. These dark corrupted demonic beings of hatred are also just without any oversight abusing and murdering people in other countries making this a world wide problem. I think your dollar scam has ruined the economy of the entire world by being a particularly self centered grifting scheme that for decades has proven to be out of control and toxic to the entire human race.
Well yeah, but like, that’s just your opinion, man.
\- The Dude
It’s actually pretty American not to believe in society. I’m not saying it’s good. But the right of an individual to march off into the wilderness and be left the fuck alone forever is a long-cherished American ideal (whether or not this ever existed).
Orphan Crushing Machine
I think third world country.
I think that’s unfair on third world countries
That would imply not taking a side in WW2.
No, the US is a developing nation. Still has plenty of ways to go in order to stomp out corruption and the oligarchy running it, and also lower the divide between rich and poor. Only then will they be able to look after their own people the way a real developed nation would.
But as long as people in the US need a gun in order to feel safe walking around, it will stay a shithole.
I think people in the US use a gun in wrong way.
I stopped having sympathy during the Obama administration. When half of the country will willingly and intentionally fuck themselves over to prove a point, when a political party will reverse course on a life saving piece of legislation because the other side agreed to it, and those same people continue to get elected, it’s not worth my emotional energy to give a fuck anymore.
Y’all deserve what you have. It’s not good but it’s what you want.
Tell that in respect to (ha) Southern Ontario and Montreal to a British Columbian, Albertan, Saskatchewanian, Manitoban, Yukonite, any First Nations Canadian or any resident of Atlantic Canada or the Northwest Territory, and see if they think differently about Ontario-Quebec than most Americans think about the Republican party.
Oh, did you know 90% of Canadians are well-to-do or upper-middle class residents of Southern Ontario or Montreal who produce less than 10% of Canada’s GDP and vote for anything that lets them continue to take advantage of the rest of the country? Yeah, our population density is horrifyingly low AND yet we have a profit-off-of-artificial-scarcity-induced housing shortage? Fuck you for supporting tyranny by majority, it’s still possible for the majority to all be in with the rich pricks, whether the minority is 49% or <10%.
You sound jealous that you don’t matter. Must suck feeling that way.
In our defense, the Republican “half” of the country aren’t actually half the country. They’re the smallest of the 3 major political affiliations among votin-age Americans: “None”, “Democrat”, and then “Republican”. In that order.
“None” is the largest single political affiliation in America, and that has been a kind of negative feedback loop in our politics. People are disenfranchised and feel disconnected from the governance of our country, so they don’t (or can’t) vote, and because they don’t vote, they’re not represented in government and are easier to disenfranchise. This, and rampent legalized bribery, have created a great deal of our problems.
Not to say voters are the source of the feedback loop, it’s being actively driven by autocratic politicians and moneyed interest.
Wow that was a quick progression from “half” to “all.” I deserve this because Republicants are insane fucks? Gee thanks. Not that I care whether you care, particularly.
You care enough to comment LoL. If your fee fees are hurt…tell someone who cares.
In Europe the US healthcare system is seen as a joke and medieval. Same for most social services I’m the US. Like somebody else said I stopped feeling sympathy a while ago.
I usually shrug and tell myself you could collectively fix it if you wanted to.
You underestimate just how propagandized we are over here. The State hardly needs to invest in propaganda when “grind/hustle” culture exists. Are you in a position where you have to choose between health or financial ruin? That’s on you for not hustling hard enough.
“if you wanted to”
At a work event the other day health care came up, and one of my coworkers said something like “But in europe you have to wait six months to see a doctor.” I started to say “And in the US, you get slow AND expensive” but decided to just hit the “Let’s not talk about this at a work event” button instead.
You don’t have to wait longer at the hospital in Europe than you do in America. It’s the same. I’ve been to both, although different places (states, EU countries) are different.
Yeah, there’s a wait for a particular doctor of your choice. That’s the same anywhere. Good doctors have a waiting list.
There is some small progress in that direction, but the organizations which would allow us to actively act have long ago been dismantled. We’re only just recently begging to rebuild our unions here. I hope this time, organized labor is more resilient.
I’m not sure. I get the impression that the American culture contains the promise that you will succeed if you try, so perhaps people think that if they can’t afford private healthcare insurance or pay their medical bills then it’s their own fault. Coming from the UK I would be completely outraged if I had to pay and I think most other people here would be too. I don’t think you can have both private healthcare and a stable state in an unequal economy because if enough of your minions & customers and get sick or die you lose the big leather armchair.
I don’t know anyone who thinks it’s their own fault they can’t afford healthcare. I know plenty of people who would probably say it is ones own fault when one can’t afford healthcare. Which is a meaningless distinction in every way except the one that could change it…
I was offered by my employer to move to the USA with the husband and children to set up a local team for a few years and then return to Europe. Didn’t have questions about the pay, housing, nope. I had questions about healthcare. I usually end up once a year in the ER for myself, last stint was a miscarriage over Christmas with 6 ER meetings but I have a shit ankle and break various bones on the yearly because I don’t pay attention to where I walk. Add children: usual sickness plus all the stupid shit they do and end up in the ER for. Asked is the insurance had a zero deductible or something similar to what we have. Long story short, I didn’t want to leave our healthcare system and we stayed in Europe as all they offered wasn’t up to par with what we got.
Usually the jobs in the US pay better. I know people who moved from Europe to expensive areas in the US. They take their kids to the doctors all the time. It’s worth it.
Also, you can just go to urgent care instead of the hospital. If you are going there a lot, you just learn which ones take your insurance.
The pay was on par with NYC finance salaries but due to social inflation, i didn’t see how it was worth it to move due to potential medical costs getting out of hand.
US jobs need to pay better for the chance of sickness and bankruptcy you’ll face
Just curious- if I get hit by a car and it shatters my femur and I don’t have insurance, which urgent care facility is going to allow me to do the necessary months of physical therapy I can’t afford?
One thing that’s different out that there is no such thing as not being able to pay for health insurance. You are required by law to be insured. This also means the government mostly covers it for you if you can’t.
You may have to pay out of pocket for the first few hundred euros when something happens, but insurance covers the rest. There’s no way a person’s life savings would disappear overnight because of a medical issue. I’d rather die than pay what I sacrificed 30+ years to save up for.
That’s similar to how it works in Democratic states in the US. It’s more expensive, but there’s no such thing as “not being able to afford insurance”. It’s required by law and subsidies make the premiums low for poor people. Although you may not have a huge choice in doctors, you will get medical care.
If anyone from the US complains, that they “can’t afford insurance” ask them where they live. I guarantee that state is run by Republicans.
I make between 60-100k a year, (sorry, I know that’s a wide range, but I rather not be specific) and I can’t afford insurance worth having. The only plans without a 10k out of my pocket before they cover anything at all started at $450/ month. I ended up with a plan that covers nothing until I spend like 5 grand out of pocket. Just shy of $300/mo.
But, I live in a red state, so maybe you’re not wrong. Private Insurance for healthcare is still an assinine idea in general high.
Do they offer a Health Savings Account? These high deductible plans should normally be paired with an HSA, and together they make a more reasonable choice.
I’ve actually been wanting to switch because I think I would save money. I have a more traditional plan right now and it’s very expensive but covers my family for most things, with a minor copay. For the same cost to me, I could get both a high deductible insurance plan and fund an HSA sufficiently to cover that high deductible. In years we use it all, it break even. However if we don’t use the full HSA, it builds toward future costs
This is wild, in the UK, if you were in an accident and needed years of surgeries, it will always be free. The cost of parking to visit the hospital will be the most expensive thing anyone ever gets billed for, and that will be around 10 dollars a day. We do pay income tax, but lower income earners pay less or none. Theres also sales taxes, and things like sugar, alcohol and nicotine are taxed quite highly as they can contribute to health problems. But it’s all well worth it to never worry about medical costs. www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates gov.uk/…/sugar-tax-revenue-helps-tackle-childhood… www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/alcohol-tobacco
HSAs are actually pretty good if you don’t use healthcare. They allow you to invest $4K tax-free per year per person. You can use them for any medical expenses, including condoms, dental care, glasses, nasal spray, tampons, acne medicine, masks, sanitizer, mental health care, in-home caregiver services, and long term care. You are definitely going to use the money eventually, and you can invest it tax-free.
www.goodrx.com/insurance/…/hsa-eligible-expenses
For any people from the UK, “dental care” means a special doctor just for teeth. Yes, that’s a thing.
In the UK you can invest £20,000 (25,000 USD) per year into a fully tax free ISA savings account. You can spend it on anything you chose at any time, and you will never need to spend any of it on healthcare against your will. www.gov.uk/…/how-isas-work
Dental care is free in the UK for under 18s, people who are pregnant or given birth in the last 12 months, or people on low income. nhs.uk/…/who-is-entitled-to-free-nhs-dental-treat…
Also if you were to unfortunately become disabled and are unable to work, you will be supported fully for the rest of your life. These benefits are not based on previous taxes paid like in the US. www.gov.uk/financial-help-disabled www.gov.uk/pip/how-much-youll-get
Among the many problems we have in heading there is that vice taxes are implemented at the state and tribal (for tobacco) levels, so it’s impossible to have a consistent policy.
Cigarettes are a perfect example with a wide range of taxes depending on the state, and last I knew, sales on reservations were tax free.
Looking it up, I see
That is such a huge difference: how do you turn that into a national policy?
You can also lol at life expectancy by state and see how each values its citizens
How the heck can there not be an uproar at that life expectancy difference? How can some states keep following the same pattern despite such clear impact on life? Sure, a lot of it is likely poverty rates, but it’s the same set of policies, not just one particular vice tax
Edit: before anyone credits simply the tropical paradise of Hawaii for too much of that life expectancy, Washington, Minnesota, and Massachusetts are right up there without the weather advantage
The UK also has much higher income taxes. Comparing US and UK income taxes:
US income tax is ferarally controlled. I don’t have exact numbers but increases in income tax for the highest earners should be able to fund a public healthcare system, at least for the lowest earners in the US.
taxsummaries.pwc.com/…/taxes-on-personal-income www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates
Edit: There are also state income taxes, which vary for some reason, I’m sure theres also county and city based taxes as well, processing them must be a nightmare. Is the US just 52 countries in a trench coat?
It seems that way sometimes.
There’s variation between states as a form of competition. For example Texas might attract people by claiming no state income tax, whereas Massachusetts might attract people with 100% medical insurance coverage, best education, highest quality of life.
When someone compares income tax rates and claims US is lower, I really don’t believe it because I know there are many taxing entities that are all separate from each other. I have no idea what other countries’ tax situation is, but are you really picking a fair comparison, if your taxing model is simpler? I’m cynical enough to expect we’re probably worse off than a simple comparison would show
You’re probably right about being worse off overall, just so much unnecessary complexity. We do have council tax here, but that depends on how big a house you live in and how expensive the area is to maintain for the council. And its a fixed rate per household, owed monthly while you’re at the same address. But I know the councils get most of thier funding from the state budget and other income streams like selling land. Theres also national insurance too which I guess is like social security. www.gov.uk/national-insurance
I have no idea ehich one is better, or costs more, but the UK does seem to offer more in return. Admittedly I only see the bad news stories about the US so have no idea what its like “on the ground”. I’ve been to Florida, New York and Vermont, so I see how states are very different places with different needs, understandible why theres not a lot of state unity on issues.
Yeah, I do want to say that nothing is as bad as our bad news highlights. Even all the crazy”Florida Man” stuff, at least some of that is from laws favoring transparency in the legal system over other places favoring privacy of the accused. A lot of the political craziness is just posturing for points. Gun violence may be twice that of other developed countries but it’s still pretty low and most people do not live in fear. Etc etc.
I’d even claim some of what you hear is good, in that it’s a good value to criticize your own society. That’s how we get better.
Then again, most of it is probably outrage headlines and clickbait.
Frankly I don’t recall. They dropped on us they were self insuring with like two weeks of open enrollment left, I made a snap choice and bought my plan on the “marketplace”.
You can afford insurance and still go bankrupt.
“Medical expenses directly cause 66.5% of bankruptcies, making it the leading cause for bankruptcy. Additionally, medical problems that lead to work loss cause 44% of bankruptcies”
Blue state cab be better…
But these stats are concerning. More herehttps://retireguide.com/…/medical-bankruptcy-….
The US healthcare system has provided me with lots of entertainment value via John Oliver’s Last Week Tonight. I like it for that
For real though, despite being a software engineer who could find a very lucrative job in the US in a heartbeat, there’s no way in hell I’ll ever even remotely consider it, and the healthcare system is one of the reasons.
As a software engineer, you’d likely get a well paying job that included better health insurance than most people get. Also you’d be more likely to be able to afford the gaps that would still exist. You would not be affected by half these horror stories
Not OP, but living in the system is supporting the system so I prefer to just live somewhere else. Going to the States for vacation is plenty to experience the cool things
That’s a pretty good take. US has good healthcare coverage for those who can afford it, but those who can are very profitable
If this person doesn’t have white skin, isn’t christian or gender conforming there’s a whole host of other horror stories that apply tho.
Thoughts and prayers!
I think I hope the right wing political parties where I live don’t manage to dismantle what little functioning public healthcare we do still have.
A friend of mine recently moved to the USA from NZ and was saying the healthcare is generally better if you’re employed and get decent insurance. And while that’s true for non emergency stuff at least in an emergency you don’t need to stress about whether the ambulance takes you to an in network hospital in NZ.
Your friend just hasn’t gotten bitten yet. You could have a million in the bank, cash, get sick and burn it up in no time. I blow basically every dollar I make because I think you’d have to be an idiot to grind and save up, unless you’re really wealthy, it can all go poof in an instant thru no fault of your own.
I ain’t suffering for the chance I might get to stop working now. I’ll enjoy my scraps now, and when it gets too be too much, I’ll paint the ceiling red.
@catch22
If we want to go on vacation, it is strongly recommended to check the insurance not only in the USA but also when traveling to Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand or Cyprus.
According to an article in a consumer magazine, it is strongly recommended to negotiate if you have to pay bills yourself. In most cases, the costs can be massively reduced. There are also said to be specialized companies that take over negotiations, some of which are also used by insurance companies.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
I’m a union autoworker, my health insurance is premium-free and covers pretty much whatever in exchange for a 25 dollar copay. We need stronger unions in this country. If you have a job, unionize it. The government has proven to be wholly ineffective at providing for the common good. They will never help you. Help yourself by unionizing your workplace.
No, we just need universal healthcare.
Not being bankrupted by an accident or emergency isnt a privilege that should only belong to the rich or well employed.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYCRwcz2aV8 is really crazy, that americans seem to think, that you need to be able to get out of everything by yourself. In the line of: If something bad happens to you and you are not able to get out by yourself, then it is your own fault and nobody should help you. Though this is already often talked about.
Another scary thing is how little you like your government (being it of the State or federal). It seems Americans don’t want the government to do much, not seeing at as a tool to handle modern problems. Back when I was at Reddit I read a thread about why americans opposed state run free healthcare for all. One user wrote something like “Don’t see, why we should solve the price issue by letting the state (so taypayer) pay”. The user just ignored the immense power, that a government of a big and wealthy nation has. It can easily press pharma companies to set prices low enough, without stiffling research and innovation. But that would be against freedom, I guess? Really difficult to understand.
Though changing the american system is a big task. Months ago I’ve seen a good video on youtube on that topic by TypeAston. I think its this one Would Universal Healthcare Really Work in the U.S.?
Abolish patents! Free the market!
I’m Australian, I hate the way our government treats our healthcare system and continues to make decisions in favour of companies and to the detriment of the Australian people, but holy hell is our system better than in the US.
Each time I read an article like this I’m glad to live here. This is never a decision we would need to make, we wouldn’t even question going to the ER in a case like this.
It’s not. You’re just falling for the propaganda
Ironic coming from a propaganda warrior like you.
Yeah people that live in the real world instead of bullshit fantasy philosophy internet land always seem like that to you people.
I’m in the U.S. I went to the ER three times last year. I have good insurance. The bill was hundreds of dollars each time.
What propaganda?
On 4chan /k/ a while back, an American ND’ed his gun into his hand and asked the board whether he should go to the hospital or not. It boggled my mind that he was having this conversation and I am from a 3rd world nation.
I’m just baffled. It seems unnecessarily cruel.
I remember an other US post of a guy who had done everything he was supposed to. Had insurance, had savings, had a well paid job.
Nonetheless, his whole family was in financial ruins when his wife got cancer. They had to move from the house and everything!
The fact that you don’t think a $2-5k bil is a lot, just proves that this system does not work, especially because some people would not even be able to pay that back for years!
To me, this is hopeless. I’d much rather pay half of my salary in taxes and be sure that if something happens, it will be the only thing that happens and that I’ll be taken good care of (and even my family will be offered help to cope). And in topnof that I get free education, 5 weeks free with pay, over 20 weeks paid maternity leave and pension. To me that sounds like a much better deal. The fact that others get the same by paying less does IMO not make it a worse deal.
The fact that you feel like the
You have people here in the U.S. who resent paying for health insurance “because I’m healthy.” As if viruses care. Or car crashes. Or cancer.
And you tell them that and they just wave you away as if they’re totally immune from those sort of things.
Edit: Sorry, I realize I wasn’t clear here. I want universal healthcare. I’m talking about financially stable people in the U.S. that can afford health insurance but instead just go to the ER, driving up wait times and costs at the expense of poor people.
Well, if insurance isn’t going to help anyway, as in the example above, I understand why they don’t. If you get financially ruined by getting sick, it doesn’t really matter how ruined you get. At some point you’d give up and accept that there is no way out of that pit. That said, even breaking a leg would ruin you, if you don’t have insurance, whereas the example above was substantially more serious.
Personally, I have smashed my thumb once, when I was younger, and recently my knee. Both times needed surgery, and were pretty complicated, but I had no stress about expenses or even concerns about consequenses at work. Everything was free, and I got paid my regular sallary while I was recovering. This is without insurance, in a country with free healthcare!
You don’t get financially ruined by any sort of sickness. Long-term illnesses can ruin you financially even if you have good insurance, but basic medicine and, especially, preventative medicine to stop long-term illness is not expensive with insurance and pretty important to be able to afford.
Would I like it to be universal healthcare? Absolutely. But their “because I’m healthy” excuse is bullshit and puts a strain on an ER system that is already being strained by people who can’t afford insurance rather than don’t want to pay it.
Just because you don’t get financially ruined by getting I’ll, , does not mean that others won’t.
62% of all adults in the US, live paycheck to paycheck. If they break a leg, it’s not safe to assume that they’d recover financially
My point is, that if you can’t pay back $35k for a complicated fraction, you won’t care if you can’t pay $200k for cancer treatment. It’s the same
They live paycheck-to-paycheck in part because they have to pay for health insurance, which is why a compound fracture wouldn’t cost them $35,000.
I’m getting the impression that a lot of foreigners think the American public generally supports the current healthcare system. We don’t.
Complaining about our healthcare is practically a National pass time. We all want something better, but it’s also one more problem in a burning pile of problems, which we have few tools to fix.
Some good news, is that we’re making some small progress on that front. We’re finally begging to rebuild our unions, which were dismantled decades ago, and the American public is becoming more politically engaged. Hopefully, these trends continuing a positive direction, and are resilient to being torn down again.
When in doubt use government
Been in both the healthcare systems of the US and several European healthcare systems for many years.
I honestly don’t know why Americans accept their healthcare system. It’s insane. Everyone’s worried about healthcare all the time. People pay excessively out of pocket for almost no coverage. And God forbid you get sick. Not only will you have to deal with the illness, you’re also staring down a possible bankruptcy.
Edit: In Europe, you just go to the emergency room or the doc or the hospital. No need to look up anything. In most places you have a small healthcare ID card that you show when you check in. Many systems don’t have any co-pays or deductibles. You just go and done. Some systems have a small co-pay for hospital stays or other services. In Germany, the co-pay for a hospital stay is €10 per day with a max of €280 per calendar year. In Denmark, there are no co-pays or deductibles for any healthcare service except dental. In Germany, most dental services are included without co-pays.
If you’re an EU citizen and you need medical care in a different EU country than where you reside, you have a special EU health card that gives you the right to the same healthcare services as a citizen of the country where you are seeking treatment.
Wow. EU, I belive in you!
We don’t have enough money to pay off our lawmakers compared to the healthcare industry’s bribes.
You know what I just fucking love?
People in the U.S. who say that it’s fine if poor people don’t have insurance because they can just go to the emergency room.
Not just because of stories like this, but because you can’t go to the ER for chemotherapy.
Meanwhile, I have supposedly good insurance and have well over $10,000 in medical debt. I’m going to the Mayo Clinic in March, so that’s going to soar.
Please invade us, Canada. Or Mexico. I’m easy.
Some experience of the UK system, I’ve called for an ambulance twice in the UK recently for what I consider (and any reasonable person would) to be an emergency. Both times I was told it would be about 4 hours wait and could I get someone to drive me to the hospital. My partner has been phoning her GP to try and get an appointment for over two weeks and keeps getting told to phone back ‘in a few days’ because they have nothing available for over a month, including phone consultation. I’ve experienced dangerous ineptitude from multiple NHS doctors. I’ve also seen corruption in that if you know someone who works in the right department you can jump queues. So I’ve learned from experience to go private if I actually need medical aid.
that your country is the actual shit hole. The worst part is when people who do work, and have insurance get denied care or endebted because something is “out of range” or whatever the fuck it is you yankees call it.
I live in LATAM, and healthcare is good. I had … “worker contribution” (mutualista) tier healthcare and private medical. Mutualista worked adequately, got my needs met, but the centers were a bit spaced out, ironically due to market competition. Similar problem with the private medical insurance, but it comes with lots of fancy bells and whistles (telemedicine, medical history app, wide variety of specialists to resolve issues etc).
I pay about $100 (monthly) and it covers everything. I never have to think about going to hospital, except “Let me see if I can avoid it by doing a quick video call”
There’s also universal healthcare that covers everyone not in mutualistas or private medicine. It’s not as well regarded, but at least it’s there. If you are making tax contributions, you’re on mutualista tier healthcare anyway. I don’t think anyone hesitates to call ambulances or react properly in the case of a medical emergency.
What use is having 8 different burger chains when you get squashed by a train and you yell at people to not call an ambulance so you don’t go bankrupt?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3P4LgpgLrA
From LATAM too and the main thing i think is: fuck. USA has always been very influential towards us. A lot of people want to imitate it because they only know it from the movies and shows or from what famous Americans share about their livestyles. And the right wings leaders over here are eager to play by their playbook. Trump got elected and now the more fringe right wing candidates are being elected here and while their eccentricities dominate the headlines the people under them work to undermine our free healthcare and public education. Some Latín Americans think it can’t happen in their country… until it happens.
Fucking Milei, most of his supporters are wielding the gadsen flag. What the hell does that flag have to do with Argentina??
A lot of Nazis relocated there from Europe after the War, with the government in Buenos Aries purportedly encouraging it. Considering who has been wanting the Gadsden flag in the US, I’d say that Nazis are the likely link.
I’m from the US, and I moved to Canada for 4 years for work. As a young adults, my partner and I had revolving medical debt. Not a ton, but enough to make it annoying. A couple thousand here and there. It felt like I was always had a hospital bill that we were trying to pay off. When we moved to Canada it was weird for us because, just as another person in here stated, you just didn’t have to think about going to the doctor. I had major stomach surgery, we had a kid, we got monetary support for our other kid who’s on the spectrum to take them to therapy… We got gtube supplies, meds for infections… Anything we needed was covered. Not once did I think oh man, this is going to wreck us. Well, that’s not true, I thought that the first time I took my oldest to the doctor to get an xray because we thought they might have broken a bone, but that was just a thought and it didn’t actually cost us a penny.
Every time we went to our PCP, a specialist, or emergency, the only thing we had to pay for was parking and maybe a few bucks for pain meds. But each time we had to get pills it was less than $5 to fill the prescription. One of the kids fell and hit their head? Straight to the doctor. A cold that’s been taking too long to go away on its own? To the doctor!
Now we are back in the US, and I just paid off another medical bill because my insurance only covered a small amount of an ECG, because they wanted to check make sure my kids heart was strong enough to put her on medication, and that the meds wouldn’t kill her.
We should move to a single payer medical system.
I regularly fear for the Americans I have connected to since the days of covid stretched my group of friends more into online spaces.
One got beaten to shit by a bad boss when he tried to retrieve his tips. All at once he had injuries that kept him out of work, mental trauma and legitimate fear for his safety that meant he couldn’t return to his job but also because work and insurance are tied down there he was in an immediate precarity. He couldn’t return to work, the cops showed active disinterest in helping him press charges and his hospital bills blew through his savings… And because he had technically quit there was no EI safety net either.
I was struck so hard by the dystopian nature of it all. There is so much under the Canadian system which is just never a factor. I didn’t realize how free I actually was because I had never tied my considerations of my health to what job I chose or whether I was unemployed. I was used to my medical services bill just being this tiny expense I had set to autopay that was so small I didn’t even have to think about. They don’t even charge that any more.
All I ever had to do to get help was ask and it was freely given. I had no cause to ever question exactly how much of a blessing… How much of a privilege… that actually was.
Living in Europe, it’s easy to forget how much is covered by the national health insurance. I just had one tooth fixed, another pulled a few months ago, and getting a dental X-ray done in a few weeks. All 100% covered. My whole family got their COVID vaccines for free. My grandmother has issues with mobility, so the hospital sent a car to our house with her vaccines for free. I can just take a bike to the doctor and get a diagnosis or papers for further examination for free.
This is why I’m happy to pay taxes. I know that crooked politicians take their unfair share, but it also funds public services like healthcare.
We wonder if that could happen to our healthcare services and what steps we can take to prevent it.
“Voting out Tory scum” is about what I’m left with.
It absolutely could happen on that side of the pond, and yeah. Globally we should be voting out anyone that wants to privatize healthcare. The US experiment has clearly been a failure for 99.99999999% of us.
Most of the time we don’t think about it, because anything medical often comes with its own stress, so just thinking about that is front of mind.
It’s only after the dust settles and we’re all back home and safe that we might say something like “whew glad that’s over! Can you imagine if we had to worry about money on top of that?”
Truly once you’re used to single payer, the American alternative seems like lunacy. I cannot imagine the stress of combining some if life’s biggest medical decisions with financial considerations
I’d go on but my socials timer is about to go
Man, I live in shit country where opposition is killed every february and ruling party of oligarchs have been destroying my country’s healthcare system for last 20 years, but I’m glad commies built it tough.
I’ve heard you even pay for ambulance.
You do. And not a small amount, like an Uber. Hundreds of dollars, regardless of how far it goes. I’m sure there are markups for care received, but I’ve not been in one to know.
*out of pocket
Why doesn’t uber (or equivalent) do ambulances?
Liability and drivers don’t want to clean up blood to start.
For a higher fair, some may be happy to do so.
I’m pretty sure the amount you’d have to increase it to break even with the new insurance you’d need and all the cleaning would rather defeat the purpose.
That’s probably why uber ambulance doesn’t exist.
They don’t have doctors. Ambulance is not a glorified taxi.
An ambulance is a very specific type of taxi.
Yes, you need an EMT and some equipment so the cost is higher than a taxi, but not the $500+ a ride currently charged.
How about 0 charged?
At that price some (particularly old) people use ambulances as a medical taxi service.
How about a fully refunded deposit on A&E admittance?
It’s dystopian as can be, the health care system in my country was one of the best in the world but has taken a major hit recently because of stupid ass politicians. Still it’s miles better than in the US and if I’m ill I just go to a doctor I don’t think twice about it.
The emotional reaction I get to these stories is hard to put into words. It’s a mix of deep sadness and incandescent rage. I just can’t imagine being in that position and not wanting to firebomb a politician’s house.
My little girl had a very high fever the other night and we were really worried about her, so we called the nurse on call hotline who advised us to wait and go to the urgent care centre in the morning unless she got suddenly worse overnight, then to head to emergency. It was all stressful enough just worrying about how sick she was. I can’t imagine how much worse it would be having to worry about paying for any of those services on top of that.
I saw a tiktok recently with an american explaining that people just don’t finish the course of antibiotics so they have an emergency stash. FACEPALM.
Isn’t that how antibiotic resistance develops?
exactly. :(
Not really. Antibiotic resistance is mostly a thing due to how over prescribed it is, not from an extreme minority of idiots not finishing their dose
It is that pesky 99.9% effectiveness. That 0.1% that survived did so because they had some minor resistance. Rinse and repeat a few hundred thousand times and you have forced evolution. It doesn’t even take that long to happen in a population with the over-prescription rate we have had here. Something about the people in charge being undereducated religious ideologs who see expertise as a threat or fraud because experts make mistakes and learn from them.
You think this is fucked. My son is type 1 diabetic here (Canada). In America people routinely ration insulin because of the cost
For those not in the know, a diabetic needs insulin constantly to survive. Failure to meet this requirement introduces a laundry list of complications that all end in death.
Despite this, they play Russian roulette with their lives not because they want to but because their government does not care about them.
It’s infuriating.
Also, worth noting that if you’re in the know, red Cross has deployed in America multiple times in recent memory. Something that used to be for “3rd world” countries deployed in the richest country in the world.
America is a failed state. People continue argue over the semantics of that definition but I will continue to argue it’s justified.
Back in the day I had a friend who ran essentially a fish dispensary and had a good connection on quality fish antibiotics. I would stock up on a bunch of stuff whenever they were making an order.
My numbers are surely off but I was paying something like $5 for ~500 amoxacillan, where at a rite aid or CVS you’d be paying, what $50 for 14 pills. The same ingredients, the same markings, the same thing. Just a lot cheaper for fish.
We moved from America to see Asia years ago. We were just talking last week about how racist we still catch ourselves being. We have a sick relative at home who we talked about moving here. They’d be close to us so we could help. And healthcare here is cheap/free often and pretty good.
But there’s part of me that just thinks American = superior. No matter how long I live here I’m not sure it will ever go away. It’s been psychopathically programmed into me. “Yeah it’s expensive, but at least you’re getting a good doctor”. (I’ve had awful and great doctors in both countries) It’s infuriating to realize.
Good on you for realising though. I mean from an outsiders perspective America tends to push the exceptionalism narrative pretty hard, live there long enough and it’ll get into you sooner or later.
You were conditioned, you’re not being racist. It would be racist if, say, you lived in the US and had an Asian doctor and demanded a white one.
Also:
This really made me laugh. It’s hard to describe what I’m imagining, but, remember in the first matrix where they “download” information via needle in the back of the head? And you know how a video game character looks when the game is glitching? Like, one character is just freaking out, all of their animations happening at once? Kinda like two cartoon characters fighting in a cloud of smoke and limbs and heads just flying out random places? Well, I imagined a mixture of those two (three?) things. And dammit if I didn’t get a hearty chuckle out of it.
First thought is that you need to do that research aa soon as you move to the new house, change your insurance or job.
Second is obvious, strange county you have over there. But I guess most of the people are satisfied with that, as with paying for school.
i don’t think it’s reasonable to say “most of the people are happy with that”. Most people in the US are definitely NOT happy with how the medical industry or insurance works. But i do think it’s fair to say that most people don’t understand that voting for the guy that says they will prevent higher taxes is also working to keep the insurance system in place OR they would rather have lower taxes than better insurance (and are too dumb to realize that would be a net gain) OR they don’t vote at all.
When you don’t have viable choices, that is most certainly NOT ‘being satisfied with that’.
The problem here is that hospitals do not remain under the same management consistently. Apparently I am responsible for knowing when each of the local hospitals changes administrations (because capitalism and they get bought out) and stops or begins accepting my insurance. When I first moved into my house the closest hospital did NOT accept my insurance, last I checked they do, but that was a few years ago, so who knows now. The hospital closest to me has changed names 3 times in the last 15 years.
It’s ridiculous that in an emergency that “when was the last time we checked to make sure that hospital takes our insurance” is even a question.
Texas. She probably votes for people telling her she needs to vote against affordable anything, much less single payer health care.
Definitely, people health it’s a big business, big pharma sell a remedy they don’t sell the cure. There isn’t a better business than big pharma and privatized health care.
Honestly they are so fucking sad I try to avoid reading them. Another example is this one: She Was Denied an Abortion After Roe Fell. This Is a Year in Her Family’s Life.
The monsters have been trying to do the same things in Europe though, UK has underfunded the NHS and healthcare in Germany is in deliberate decline too.
Yeah, no, I don’t think about you.
Canada here: Unbelievable. It’s so foreign to me to pay for medical care.
And I always post this:
www.npr.org/2020/10/19/925354134/frame-canada