Why are American cops allowed to be morbidly obese?
from snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 18:19
https://lemmy.world/post/31040389

How is someone that gets out of breath eating a donut going to protect and serve anyone?

#nostupidquestions

threaded - newest

Lembot_0003@lemmy.zip on 08 Jun 18:21 next collapse

I believe that they are not allowed. Some of them just are.

SassyRamen@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 18:22 next collapse

Don’t live there, but I think something to do with Dunkin Donuts

over_clox@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 18:27 next collapse

Cops with guns don’t have to run… 🤷‍♂️

FenrirIII@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 23:42 collapse

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks
You better run, better run outrun my gun

jagged_circle@feddit.nl on 09 Jun 13:02 collapse

Why are people upvoting you for supporting school shooters?

FenrirIII@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 15:15 collapse

It’s a song lyric and an indictment of America for our glorification of gun culture.

jagged_circle@feddit.nl on 09 Jun 18:37 collapse

I know. Its not an indictment. Read the lyrics. And listen to the upbeat.

FenrirIII@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 20:53 collapse

Ah, so you know more about the true meaning of the song than the writer himself.

Bgugi@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 18:47 next collapse

Neither protecting or serving are actual job requirements.

sramder@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 19:31 next collapse

This is a common misconception in the U.S., it’s not even the car’s job… that crappy sticker has the shittiest union.

ohulancutash@feddit.uk on 08 Jun 20:09 collapse

That sticker was exclusive to the LAPD, but it kept turning up in films made in Hollywood set elsewhere, so other regions adopted it eventually too.

sramder@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 20:35 collapse

Man, that kind of figures… I bet it was a PR campaign that they paid for. So in a way we all got value out of that lie… nope. No satisfying conclusion to be found here 😒

[deleted] on 08 Jun 19:32 collapse
.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 00:02 next collapse

I think NPR or PBS can’t lie on the news or over the air public local news. The over the air news usually will have a PSA opinion piece and it’s usually by the owners and mostly sways right. Cable news is free for all and one sided.

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 00:37 collapse
BossDj@lemm.ee on 08 Jun 18:50 next collapse

Cities in pretty much the entire country are running with an understaffed police force. They’ll take what they can get. I’m 100% pro Union, but another problem is that police unions help protect unfit (literally and figuratively) police from being forced to try harder by abusing protected status health claims. I’ve seen in both police and military, they are handed paperwork if they are not meeting fitness expectations, but nothing ever comes of it.

verdigris@lemmy.ml on 08 Jun 19:12 next collapse

Police unions are the only bad union.

kobra@lemmy.zip on 08 Jun 19:25 next collapse

So bad in fact, they’ve often made me wonder if any union is worth it if that’s the risk of what they could become.

ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml on 08 Jun 19:42 collapse

With that mindset, why bother living or leaving the bed? Imagine the worst day you could have, why risk it?

kobra@lemmy.zip on 08 Jun 20:01 collapse

Sure, take it 100% literally. Don’t relate to the thought process at all.

You all can’t be serious in that you haven’t thought the same thing. I didn’t say it 100% makes all unions bad I just shared a thought I occasionally have because of how bad the police union is in America.

But yeah let’s fight with each other about it instead of eating the rich, good plan.

🙄

ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml on 08 Jun 21:05 collapse

Your though process is wrong. You need to backpedal it. One bad apple doesn’t mean we should burn the orchard. And you can perverse anything good into an abomination.

eat the rich

How you want to do that without unions? Dude, saying out loud

[I wonder] if any union is worth it if that’s the risk of what they could become.

Is not helping anyone.

Take an L and do better.

kobra@lemmy.zip on 08 Jun 21:23 collapse

Again, you’re either not understanding what I’m actually saying or taking it literally on purpose to troll me. Either way, I’m not gonna waste my time 😘 👋

floo@retrolemmy.com on 08 Jun 19:40 next collapse

They’re illegal in many other countries

Lembot_0003@lemmy.zip on 08 Jun 19:48 collapse

Yes, unions are too democratic, too humane. Police should have only one goal – to protect the government from peons. You can’t risk the police having any resemblance to humans. This might lead to failure in the main goal achievement.

ohulancutash@feddit.uk on 08 Jun 20:14 next collapse

They have representation in other ways. For instance in Britain, where it is illegal for police to unionise, there is instead a government-funded Police Federation, which independently advocates for police working conditions and supplies advice and representation for police in disciplinary affairs. The main difference from a union is that it is free to members and that police are not allowed to go on strike. This removes a lot of the worst abuses of power.

floo@retrolemmy.com on 08 Jun 20:31 collapse

Cops aren’t exploited workers, they are armed agents of the state. They are not your friends, allies, etc. And whether or not they are human is entirely debatable. I’ve never seen any evidence to suggest it.

Lembot_0003@lemmy.zip on 08 Jun 20:39 collapse

Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying.

grue@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 20:44 collapse

All labor unions are good. Police unions are not.

This is because police unions are not labor unions, since police are not labor but rather the enforcers for the owner class.

derry@midwest.social on 08 Jun 19:13 next collapse

“They’ll take what they can get.” Except for the smart ones. abcnews.go.com/US/…/story?id=95836

BossDj@lemm.ee on 08 Jun 20:37 collapse

…well shit. Too smart to be an officer is a thing.

CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 Jun 20:09 next collapse

Additionally, cities that want physically fit officers have unions that demand that they are paid to work out. Cities don’t want to pay for that.

So, usually the fitness requirements are only used when applying but aren’t used when you are in the force.

Damage@feddit.it on 08 Jun 20:46 collapse

cities that want physically fit officers have unions that demand that they are paid to work out

Seems fairly reasonable to me

grue@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 20:47 next collapse

Cities in pretty much the entire country are running with an understaffed police force.

Counterpoint: Americans are already overpoliced and the “understaffing” is only relative to the authoritarians’ desire to make us even more so.

BossDj@lemm.ee on 08 Jun 23:20 collapse

Makes sense. Maybe they wouldn’t be understaffed if they were utilized in places that actually mattered to people

octobob@lemmy.ml on 08 Jun 20:58 next collapse

I live in Pittsburgh and there are literally no cops on duty from like 3-5 AM or something. We haven’t had a police chief in years, and I never see cops unless there’s a violent crime or a car accident or overdose. You can kinda do whatever you want in terms of traffic laws. I’ve never even heard of someone getting a traffic ticket in the city, and most times if you’re actually goin the speed limit you’re a hazard that isn’t following the flow of traffic. Completely different story in the suburbs outside the city.

It kinda rules not gonna lie.

Zenith@lemm.ee on 08 Jun 21:09 next collapse

France doesn’t let the police unionize, it’s the only group in the country explicitly and expressly forbade from unionizing. Police should never be allowed to unionize

kaki@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jun 22:06 collapse

The only group that can’t unionize is the military, there’s plenty of police unions in France.

truite@jlai.lu on 09 Jun 08:44 collapse

And they unionize a lot.

cabillaud@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 03:03 collapse

And they smell like far right a lot

sprite0@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jun 21:59 collapse

understaffed my asshole

magnetosphere@fedia.io on 08 Jun 22:06 next collapse

You’re really setting yourself up here

Sprinks@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 22:07 collapse

I…i didnt realize this needed staffing…

sprite0@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jun 22:11 collapse

get to work

Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 18:51 next collapse

Never met anyone who was too fat to shoot minorities.

Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online on 08 Jun 19:04 next collapse

Cops don’t exist to protect you and they don’t have to be physically fit to serve their purpose: using the threat of violence and the prison industrial complex to protect the interests of capital.

undefined@lemmy.hogru.ch on 08 Jun 19:07 next collapse

Everyone’s so fucking obese here that most people don’t notice.

abbadon420@lemm.ee on 09 Jun 07:18 collapse

Blend in with the crowd

Warl0k3@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 19:13 next collapse

Non joke answer: A bunch of reasons. Many precincts are understaffed, so they need all the hands they can get. The police union is huge and makes it extremely difficult to fire even the most homer-simpsonian individuals. Many of the hugely obese cops are assigned to “light duty” meaning the most exertion they face is paperwork, manning the public information desk and or doing things like serving writs (in some cases you’re allowed to wear the uniformn even if you’re not a bonded officer, which is absurd). Additionally, fitness requirements are actually fairly rare across the whole spectrum of law enforcement - It’s surprisingly rare to see them for any positions besides uniformed patrol officer, even detectives or etc. aren’t always required to pass them - and even when you do, they’re usually pathetically easy to pass.

protist@mander.xyz on 08 Jun 19:23 next collapse

Police departments in general have severe problems, but I encounter police often in my work and can honestly say I’ve never encountered an officer for my city’s dept who’d qualify as morbidly obese

PolydoreSmith@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 19:33 next collapse

Reminds me of my favorite Simpson’s quote.

Marge (to Bart): “Your father wanted to be a police officer but they said he was too heavy.”

Homer: “No the army said I was too heavy, the police said I was too dumb.”

grue@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 20:46 collapse

the police said I was too dumb.”

Well that sure didn’t age well!

abcnews.go.com/US/…/story?id=95836

entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org on 09 Jun 03:20 collapse

Considering how dumb the police chief is on that show, I think it was an intentional joke

jagged_circle@feddit.nl on 09 Jun 13:04 collapse

If he’s dumber than the police chief, then he’d be more qualified.

The point is that the police prefer dumb workers. They won’t hire you if you score too high on am IQ test

entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org on 09 Jun 15:00 collapse

I understood their point. My point is that it was a one line throwaway gag on The Simpsons. Not necessarily a commentary on real world police hiring practices so much as a joke about both the police in that show and Homer.

some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org on 08 Jun 19:38 next collapse

The point is to punish, not to protect. Fatasses can punish just fine.

Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org on 08 Jun 19:53 collapse

Fatasses can punish just fine.

Not when everybody can run circles around them and run away at the same time…

dbx12@programming.dev on 08 Jun 20:15 collapse

That’s why they are armed like they go to a war zone. Don’t need to be fast off you have weaponry which has more reach than even the fittest guy can run before they pull the trigger. Survival of the suspect is optional.

LonstedBrowryBased@lemm.ee on 08 Jun 19:49 next collapse

They just need to be able to drive a car and pull the trigger on their gun

FuckFascism@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 19:50 next collapse

By being racist?

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 08 Jun 20:08 next collapse

Beyond what others have said, different departments have different policies. They’re usually pretty similar to each other, but a lot don’t explicitly lay out fitness requirements.

Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 20:10 next collapse

I totally agree with your thought here, I’ve thought the same thing many times. I’ve see many very overweight cops stopping at gas stations and whatnot.

How can these guys chase down an assailant? Cops should be required to be fit. I’d say they need to prove weekly they can run a mile in like 8mins? Faster? Then, once per month they need to prove they can do a 5 mile, like 45-50 mins? Seems fair.

MTK@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 22:01 next collapse

Kind of an over simplification. Yeah, cops should ideally be fit-ish but even an obese person with a gun or a tazer can protect people, maybe not as well but still, and that doesn’t take into account the fact that a lot of cops are not actually on the streets but rather in an office doing paperwork etc. The problems are:

  • There are maybe not enough cops that are fit for actual fights?
  • Cops are ridiculously undertrained and unfiltered, giving us all if these assholes that really just like power.
LordWiggle@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 22:46 next collapse

From what I’ve seen, they don’t even learn about the law and often break the law by illegal detainment, searches and confiscation. Cops who served for over 20 years but don’t know people their rights. They often get minimal training while having to serve alone where everyone carries a gun. That’s asking for problems. And now cops in the US are militarized with heavy combat gear, while the majority is white and racist. So obesity is the least of the problems with US police.

RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 23:03 next collapse

I mean, where are they? Most cops I’ve seen personally wouldn’t even qualify as regular obese, let alone morbidly.

BassTurd@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 23:12 collapse

In a small Midwest town, if the police force has more than 3 members, I bet half of them are classified as obese.

ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de on 08 Jun 23:19 next collapse

Our law enforcement is a huge joke and the meh pay, high turnover rate, and low bar of entry attracts the type of people you wouldn’t want to be associated with to begin with.

But also, why are small framed 5’3 women allowed to be police?

Fact is, most cops can’t outrun or overpower a lot of criminals who chose to resist or flee. In actuality that’s a pretty tiny part of the job. The rest is tickets, reports, paperwork, arrests with no resistance, investigations, etc. you don’t have to be an athlete or even very physically fit to do any of that. Id rather deal with a fat cop that isn’t a dick more than a slim one who’s a dumbass.

theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 23:23 next collapse

Just as well as any other cop

absolutejank@lemmy.world on 08 Jun 23:27 next collapse

to give an answer to a rhetorical question: because firing people based on weight is a can of worms being opened. while it’s still technically not illegal to fire someone because their weight makes them “unfit,” the ada can be invoked if said obesity is caused by a disorder (e.g., type 1 diabetes). this ignores the fact that it’s hard to prove that someone would be unfit just for their weight; it just opens up employers to lawsuits. a simpler way to think about it would be to ask yourself if the guy handing out speeding tickets is “unfit for duty” solely because he’s obese.

moody@lemmings.world on 08 Jun 23:42 collapse

The easy way around this is to require passing regular fitness tests. If your obesity isn’t an impediment to the fitness test, then it shouldn’t be an impediment to your job.

richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one on 09 Jun 00:09 next collapse

They are not required to serve and protect. US courts say so.

Echo5@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 03:21 next collapse

Heard from a local cop that it had something to do with the union. If the department wants to implement a standard the union would require something or other. Something about an incentive? I didn’t get the whole picture obviously. I know police need unions in case somebody sues them but does seem kind of dumb that it’s so difficult to enforce a physical standard.

Delphia@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 09:20 collapse

Now I dont work in the law enforcement industry but I do work in an industry that has supposed fitness requirements although they arent enforced.

For us, the union told them “If they have to maintain a weight of X to remain employed. You have to pay them to hit the gym on company time or pay their gym fees and an allowance.” So the company filed that away under “fuck that”. Now if you get too fat for the equipment they just move you to a different duty, often one with a shitload of walking around.

theblips@lemm.ee on 09 Jun 14:47 collapse

It’s a fair enough requirement from the union

Delphia@lemmy.world on 12 Jun 10:09 collapse

Backfired big time too.

Most of the big older guys realised that walking around all day is actually a pretty low pressure and laid back gig even if you are on your feet all day and dont want to go back on the machines once they are getting like 20,000 steps a day and lose the weight.

kubok@fedia.io on 09 Jun 06:12 next collapse

i have been to the US several times. Have you ever tried to eat healthily?

nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Jun 06:34 next collapse

you have to make your own food it’s the only way

Ohmmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Jun 08:55 collapse

Or be wealthy

nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Jun 14:22 collapse

and hire someone to cook your food or what

jagged_circle@feddit.nl on 09 Jun 13:00 collapse

Its pretty easy. There’s fruits and vegetables all over that country lol

OceanSoap@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 06:23 next collapse

I think once you pass the physical strength/endurance exam to become a cop, you don’t have to take any to remain one. I definitely think that should change, though. Make them pass once a year to retain their job.

waggz@programming.dev on 09 Jun 09:15 next collapse

There are definitely agencies that do exactly what you described. The one I’m most familiar with has a sliding scale based on age and they are required to pass annually.

madcaesar@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 09:59 next collapse

Fuck the physical part, they should take yearly psychological exams and have continuous education on conflict resolution.

ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works on 09 Jun 13:50 collapse

They don’t even have to pass those if they don’t want to. In portions of America it is just: win an election, appoint your friends and lackies.

A lot of departments use the admission tests to screen out candidates who might be overqualified: they specifically won’t want the best. An overwight blob is preferable to an in shape individual that might think before acting.

Kolanaki@pawb.social on 09 Jun 06:38 next collapse

Guns.

lechekaflan@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 07:55 next collapse

In my part of the world, cops are near on top of the food chain in any town and city, sometimes literally getting a free pass as long as they do something for a politician, a celebrity, or a business personality. So some of them, especially senior officers, do eventually get obese because not only they get to choose what duties they want to carry out, but also either they have three full square meals plus two snacks a day, or maybe a drinking party two to four times a month.

Of course they – the Philippine National Police – are a government agency, but also they’re a fraternity, the so-called “Brotherhood”: “you scratch my back as long as I scratch yours”.

Bloomcole@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 09:09 next collapse

to protect and serve is not their job.

D_C@lemm.ee on 09 Jun 10:00 next collapse
xav@programming.dev on 09 Jun 10:21 next collapse

To protect and serve the rich

bss03@infosec.pub on 09 Jun 15:05 collapse

“protect and serve” is copaganda, since SCOTUS ruled on en.wikipedia.org/…/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia in late 1981. “Fun” animated video to describe same: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAfUI_hETy0

Bloomcole@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 17:23 next collapse

And this:
reason.com/…/man-gets-stabbed-on-subway-guess-how…

Also used successfully as a precedent when the cowards waited in the hall while a shooter was on a rampage in a school a few years ago.

bss03@infosec.pub on 09 Jun 23:29 collapse

I think the subway stabbing is the main focus of the Cracked video I linked. But, maybe it’s a different subway stabbing.

Bloomcole@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 09:03 collapse

It is, didn’t have time for a video.
Glad so many know these days what they are and do

NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 02:31 collapse

Lookup Philip Brailsford. History of brutality, executed a pest control worker for doing his job with his own personal AR-15 engraved with “you’re fucked” on the side, there is full video evidence of the man crying and begging for his life on his knees with his hands on his head, Brailsford was rewarded for it with a full pension and an early retirement.

kreskin@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 10:10 next collapse

Why are they also so clearly low iq, and hyper violent?
and why are they paid so well?

Duamerthrax@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 13:38 next collapse
thermal_shock@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 00:00 next collapse

Paid to keep the poor in place between wars.

barneypiccolo@lemm.ee on 10 Jun 00:58 collapse

Police forces deliberately filter out intelligent people because A) the job is mostly really boring, and smart people don’t like boring jobs, and 2) Smart people won’t put up with the open racism, corruption, and general bullshit of cops.

Ever notice on the news, that the local police chief always sounds like a swaggering, arrogant dumbass? It’s because he was promoted from a professional gene pool that was compromised from the start. He’s was just the biggest arrogant swaggering dumbass out of big pool of arrogant swaggering dumbasses.

Jhex@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 11:29 next collapse

How is someone that gets out of breath eating a donut going to protect and serve anyone?

They don’t serve anyone

doingthestuff@lemy.lol on 09 Jun 12:46 next collapse

Or protect. They might protect those donuts tho.

[deleted] on 10 Jun 04:25 collapse
.
jagged_circle@feddit.nl on 09 Jun 12:59 next collapse

What? They definitely serve rich people. Why do you think they were created?

[deleted] on 10 Jun 04:23 collapse
.
13igTyme@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 14:15 next collapse

I’ve definitely seen fat police officers in other countries.

silentjohn@lemmy.ml on 09 Jun 14:45 next collapse

Many departments don’t require physical tests once hired.

Most of the work cops do is domestic disturbance calls and traffic stops. There’s no reason to be physically fit for either of those jobs. Also, most people see the day shift and in nicer neighborhoods; again there’s really no need for physicality. Getting on day shift and good area means you’ve been on the police a while and “earned it” (or you have some clout), so usually olderish cops.

The young jacked mfers usually are on the night shift and in rougher neighborhoods.

Additionally, a bullet resistant vest and all the gear will make you look bigger/fatter than you really are.

So it’s kind of a combo of all that.

Also, ACAB

thermal_shock@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 23:59 next collapse

Plus they’re not going to run you down, they’re going to taser you in the back and watch you face plant into the asphalt. They don’t give a fuck. They’re going to dog pile and twist your arm until you “comply”, no need to communicate more than that. Comply or die. Bullet will outrun you every time. Fuck cops.

andros_rex@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 00:35 collapse

And when they show up on a domestic dispute, they’ll take the abusers side so that they don’t have to risk any form of conflict. The battered spouse isn’t going to fight you if you try to arrest them! (2 and half years now - no answers or report on why “your husband wants to move in a prostitute - time for you to leave” happened)

SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world on 09 Jun 15:12 next collapse

Becauase people who are sensible and emotionally stable enough to be healthy probably aren’t stupid or malicious enough to be cops.

You also can’t be a cop at some stations if your IQ is tested too high.

They want obedient bullies, it’s a low bar.

HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club on 09 Jun 16:07 next collapse

Since you’re using terminology tied to BMI, it is important to note that it’s use for police officers doesn’t accurately reflect reality.

A lot of cops take their fitness regime seriously, including building a lot of muscle mass. If you have significant muscle mass, you are going to be considered obese or morbidly obese per BMI even though they are in great physical shape. This would be true for other fields like firefighters.

Schlemmy@lemmy.ml on 09 Jun 16:34 next collapse

Exact. I started working out to lose weight and turned from slightly over weight to obese. I lost a decent amount of fat but gained a lot of weight building up muscle mass. 12 kg in about a year. BMI sucks.

[deleted] on 09 Jun 21:38 collapse
.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club on 09 Jun 21:48 collapse

I didn’t have context for your comment and I didn’t say all cops. From what I read, you could have been pulling a stat without context.

snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 00:44 collapse

You have context now so has your opinion changed at all?

HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club on 10 Jun 01:22 collapse

Some cops are fat, yeah. Also, a lot of cops aren’t. The ones sent to beat the shit out of protestors aren’t the fat ones.

LordGimp@lemm.ee on 09 Jun 16:30 next collapse

You misunderstand. Cops in the US have no legal obligation to protect OR serve anyone. Check out the NY subway guy that was attacked with a knife while cops watched from 10 feet away behind bulletproof glass. They literally hid in the conductor booth and watched this guy get stabbed in the fucking face repeatedly.

Not only did the guy survive, he actually overpowered and subdued the attacker. Guy brought a suit against the NYPD for failing to protect him when their motto at the time was literally “Protect and serve”. Long story short, the end result is that he got a real live judge to say out loud that police have no actual duty to protect you when it could endanger themselves. Coupled with your observation on the obesity of American cops, it could be argued that walking down the street to issue a ticket could be lethal for the cop in question and therefore they have no obligation to do it, they simply choose to do it out of spite.

PurpleGameBoy@lemmy.zip on 10 Jun 02:53 next collapse

Cops serve capital, not us.

FreakinSteve@lemmy.world on 10 Jun 03:02 collapse

NYPD is an army with offices around the world and pays as much as $600,000/year to individuals for pension.

They are not a police force; they are a Mafia.

Most small town.police forces are the same.

Their job is not to stop crime; it is to serve the wealthy and crush their opponents.

This is why every American should be armed at all times and ready to defend each other immediately.

Etterra@discuss.online on 10 Jun 09:29 collapse

Chicago is the same. The CPD union is basically a shadow government.